garda legal issue??

sitja

Hi guys... just want to know about where a person stands in an issue like this.. I recently witnessed in my opinion excessive garda force on a couple of youths, I as concerned citizen stayed close to the situation but was asked to move on although i expressed my feelings of the handling of the situation and was told quite arrogantly that "it had nothing to do with me"..

As far as im aware i know that on request of the garda if asked to move away you must but im just curious is there any law for a concerned citizen in a situation like this..

Wile E. Coyote

If you think they were in the wrong then complain to the Garda ombudsman.

Corruptable

If you think the handling of the issue was not appropriate or any force used was excessive, contact the Garda Ombudsman and/or complain to the Superintendent at the relevant station.

Gardai are empowered to move on loiterers, and failure to comply with the directions of a garda is an offence under the Public Order Act 1994, for which you can be arrested.

Groups of young people loitering can have a negative affect on an area, and can intimidate members of the public or provide the potential for a breach of the peace, so there are clearly good grounds for the powers which are available.

sitja

Corruptable wrote: »

If you think the handling of the issue was not appropriate or any force used was excessive, contact the Garda Ombudsman and/or complain to the Superintendent at the relevant station.

Gardai are empowered to move on loiterers, and failure to comply with the directions of a garda is an offence under the Public Order Act 1994, for which you can be arrested.

Groups of young people loitering can have a negative affect on an area, and can intimidate members of the public or provide the potential for a breach of the peace, so there are clearly good grounds for the powers which are available.

Your name says it all.!! Garda abusing a couple of lads can also have a negative affect on an area, and I being a member of the public felt intimated by the garda so please explain more on those "good grounds"

Oh and on the ombudsman.... this is a line straight off there website
"It is important to remember that the Garda Ombudsman seeks to establish truth based on evidence lawfully gathered. If there is insufficient evidence to support one of the above the case may be dismissed."
The fact i was a witness to this yet removed from the vicinity though having no connection what was going on.... how in gods name is there going to be evidence if anyone that can back up the lads story is told go away........ Im just curious to know does anyone besides me object to that law or is it basically the gardas word against the lads they abused... is that some sort of protection in irish law..

One thing i forgot to mention earlier was.... as i saw it escalate i was just about to reach for my phone to record the carry on, to actually have proof to complain... I also asked the garda who approached me for his badge no. but that even had him move me on quicker..

sidewaysdrivin

as far as i'm aware if you ask a garda for their badge number they are legally required to do so...

but my other opinion is complaints to the garda ombudsman is that its falling on deaf ears most of the time, unless its blatantly serious

and in some cases they just go and make a few statistics and hand them to rte, for instance the garda-enduced riots at the student protest march in 2010, rte had the numbers of complaints that the garda ombudsman had recieved and a little note saying yeah we're investigating them all... did anything ever happen from them complaints?

sitja

exactly... but in my case i would of had evidence to catch them in the act but our LAW seems to protect them in this sense, given that they can remove witnesses!!!! I felt worse thinking of what would happen when the lads got back to the station given what the garda where capable of doing in public..

charlemont

Garda Ombudsman.

http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/

Its this ignorant attitude that gives the Guards a bad name, One rotten apple and all that ....

MagicSean

sitja wrote: »

Your name says it all.!! Garda abusing a couple of lads can also have a negative affect on an area, and I being a member of the public felt intimated by the garda so please explain more on those "good grounds"

Oh and on the ombudsman.... this is a line straight off there website
"It is important to remember that the Garda Ombudsman seeks to establish truth based on evidence lawfully gathered. If there is insufficient evidence to support one of the above the case may be dismissed."
The fact i was a witness to this yet removed from the vicinity though having no connection what was going on.... how in gods name is there going to be evidence if anyone that can back up the lads story is told go away........ Im just curious to know does anyone besides me object to that law or is it basically the gardas word against the lads they abused... is that some sort of protection in irish law..

One thing i forgot to mention earlier was.... as i saw it escalate i was just about to reach for my phone to record the carry on, to actually have proof to complain... I also asked the garda who approached me for his badge no. but that even had him move me on quicker..

OMG. Are our usernames real now? That's great news. i wonder what spells I can do.

In relation to the law. Section 8 is a vital piece of legislation. Without it Gardaí would be forced to arrest many many people under the public order act. Section 8 allows them to direct them to move instead.

sidewaysdrivin wrote: »

as far as i'm aware if you ask a garda for their badge number they are legally required to do so...

but my other opinion is complaints to the garda ombudsman is that its falling on deaf ears most of the time, unless its blatantly serious

and in some cases they just go and make a few statistics and hand them to rte, for instance the garda-enduced riots at the student protest march in 2010, rte had the numbers of complaints that the garda ombudsman had recieved and a little note saying yeah we're investigating them all... did anything ever happen from them complaints?

Gardaí don't have badge numbers. Their shoulder numbers are on their shoulders.

And the Ombudsman investigates most claims in my experience. Even the most ridiculous ones. What they do not do is take action against people who file false claims and because of this there are a lot of these.

sitja wrote: »

exactly... but in my case i would of had evidence to catch them in the act but our LAW seems to protect them in this sense, given that they can remove witnesses!!!! I felt worse thinking of what would happen when the lads got back to the station given what the garda where capable of doing in public..

I'm sure the lads can make their own complaints. And most stations have cameras that they can use for evidence.

sitja

you obviously didnt read all my posts!

seamus

If you as a citizen believed that a Garda was in the process of assaulting someone or using excessive force in carrying out and arrest, it would be lawful for you to intervene to prevent further injury to the person.

You'd want to be very, very sure that you're doing the right thing though otherwise you would be charged yourself for assaulting a Garda and impeding an arrest.

After the fact, your only option is the Ombudsman. Their website specifically states that a witness to alleged Garda misconduct is entitled to make a complaint.

They weren't "removing witnesses" as you claim, simply moving people on to prevent creating a public nuisance. If their intention was to cause harm to the kids, then as you say they would just wait to do it in the station rather than "remove witnesses" and give them a beating in public.

MagicSean

charlemont wrote: »

Its this ignorant attitude that gives the Guards a bad name,

What ignorant attitude? Where in the ops story is the garda ignorant?

charlemont

MagicSean wrote: »

What ignorant attitude? Where in the ops story is the garda ignorant?

"although i expressed my feelings of the handling of the situation and was told quite arrogantly that "it had nothing to do with me".."

That bit, Some manners wouldn't go astray. Although I suppose they could have been under pressure themselves so in that case its understandable, But in fairness there is nothing worse than asking someone a question and getting an ignorant response.

sidewaysdrivin

MagicSean wrote: »

Gardaí don't have badge numbers. Their shoulder numbers are on their shoulders.

And the Ombudsman investigates most claims in my experience. Even the most ridiculous ones. What they do not do is take action against people who file false claims and because of this there are a lot of these.

amm..... same general idea, what about a plain clothes garda? are they exempted from identifying their garda numbers because its not on their shoulders?
i doubt that, its their garda identity number and must be given upon request wouldnt that be correct? i would imagine so

sitja

MagicSean wrote: »

OMG. Are our usernames real now? That's great news. i wonder what spells I can do.

In relation to the law. Section 8 is a vital piece of legislation. Without it Gardaí would be forced to arrest many many people under the public order act. Section 8 allows them to direct them to move instead.




Gardaí don't have badge numbers. Their shoulder numbers are on their shoulders.

And the Ombudsman investigates most claims in my experience. Even the most ridiculous ones. What they do not do is take action against people who file false claims and because of this there are a lot of these.



I'm sure the lads can make their own complaints. And most stations have cameras that they can use for evidence.

Are you a guard.... i would be disgusted if you are because your observation skills are useless!!! alot of the time peoples user names can mean something in reference to there life..!!!

Badge number/shoulder number same difference question remains the same if you ask should they tell you!!

And yes MOST stations not all just to clarify, doesnt matter if i they want to make a complaint or not... fact remains the same a public figure should respect the public..

MagicSean

charlemont wrote: »

"although i expressed my feelings of the handling of the situation and was told quite arrogantly that "it had nothing to do with me".."

That bit, Some manners wouldn't go astray. Although I suppose they could have been under pressure themselves so in that case its understandable, But in fairness there is nothing worse than asking someone a question and getting an ignorant response.

If you're trying to deal with people, (and let's remember that the op has no idea who they are, they could have previous form for attacking Gardaí. There's more than one person out there that has stated a desire to infect Gardaí with "the virus") and a person comes up to you and distracts you then it's very possible you could be under too much pressure to pander to them. If the op had a problem he should have reported it to the station or the ombudsman and not interfered with them.

sidewaysdrivin wrote: »

amm..... same general idea, what about a plain clothes garda? are they exempted from identifying their garda numbers because its not on their shoulders?
i doubt that, its their garda identity number and must be given upon request wouldnt that be correct? i would imagine so

No you are not correct. If asked they should identify themselves as a Garda and say which station they are from. They do not have to give any numbers. And they don't have to identify themselves to everyone who wants to know either.

sitja wrote: »

Are you a guard.... i would be disgusted if you are because your observation skills are useless!!! alot of the time peoples user names can mean something in reference to there life..!!!

Badge number/shoulder number same difference question remains the same if you ask should they tell you!!

And yes MOST stations not all just to clarify, doesnt matter if i they want to make a complaint or not... fact remains the same a public figure should respect the public..

I can't understand why they didn't respond to you. You seem like such a gentleman.

sitja

seamus wrote: »

If you as a citizen believed that a Garda was in the process of assaulting someone or using excessive force in carrying out and arrest, it would be lawful for you to intervene to prevent further injury to the person.

You'd want to be very, very sure that you're doing the right thing though otherwise you would be charged yourself for assaulting a Garda and impeding an arrest.

After the fact, your only option is the Ombudsman. Their website specifically states that a witness to alleged Garda misconduct is entitled to make a complaint.

They weren't "removing witnesses" as you claim, simply moving people on to prevent creating a public nuisance. If their intention was to cause harm to the kids, then as you say they would just wait to do it in the station rather than "remove witnesses" and give them a beating in public.

Well i was the only person in the area but i know where you coming from... Realistically no doubt the lads gave lip but that doesnt give grown men the right to cuff and hit them while defenceless... And some tempers dont "wait" until they get to the station...

tayto lover

sitja wrote: »

you obviously didnt read all my posts!

He seems to have read your mind though.

sidewaysdrivin

MagicSean wrote: »

No you are not correct. If asked they should identify themselves as a Garda and say which station they are from. They do not have to give any numbers. And they don't have to identify themselves to everyone who wants to know either.

so if an unmarked pulls me, plain clothes garda, as they have done in the past, and one of them decides to be a pure ************************ i cant get an identity number from him to complain? news to me, what a joke

MagicSean

sidewaysdrivin wrote: »

so if an unmarked pulls me, plain clothes garda, as they have done in the past, and one of them decides to be a pure ************************ i cant get an identity number from him to complain? news to me, what a joke

You can ask to see his id but there is no id number on it.

sitja

MagicSean wrote: »

If you're trying to deal with people, (and let's remember that the op has no idea who they are, they could have previous form for attacking Gardaí. There's more than one person out there that has stated a desire to infect Gardaí with "the virus") and a person comes up to you and distracts you then it's very possible you could be under too much pressure to pander to them. If the op had a problem he should have reported it to the station or the ombudsman and not interfered with them.



No you are not correct. If asked they should identify themselves as a Garda and say which station they are from. They do not have to give any numbers. And they don't have to identify themselves to everyone who wants to know either.



I can't understand why they didn't respond to you. You seem like such a gentleman.

So you would leave grown men cuff kids and damage them.. I would also like they know your sources on the garda not having to identify themselves as an individual, could be useful for future encounters.....

I dont think the term gentleman comes in when you see a kid cuffed an beat by someone almost 3 times his size..

sitja

tayto lover wrote: »

He seems to have read your mind though.

i dont get that bud??

p.s. refering to charlesmont post now, not magi sean.

MagicSean

sitja wrote: »

So you would leave grown men cuff kids and damage them.. I would also like they know your sources on the garda not having to identify themselves as an individual, could be useful for future encounters.....

How can source the absence of something. The only two pieces of legislation that require a Garda to produce ID are the road traffic acts and the offences against the state act.

sitja wrote: »

I dont think the term gentleman comes in when you see a kid cuffed an beat by someone almost 3 times his size..

3 times?

Joshua Jones

To be honest I'd say some of the force feel like this guy. Being from Donegal we have more than most. "But sure it's all changed now", they cry. Only their names.

sitja

MagicSean wrote: »

How can source the absence of something. The only two pieces of legislation that require a Garda to produce ID are the road traffic acts and the offences against the state act.



3 times?

so where is your information based upon? Yes seems the force these days seem to be suffering from an obesity problem.. well in my area anyway..

seamus

sitja wrote: »

so where is your information based upon?

If there is no legislation compelling a Garda to identify himself, then he's not compelled to do so.

If you believe this is incorrect, then the onus is on you to provide your sources for the assertion.

sitja

seamus wrote: »

If there is no legislation compelling a Garda to identify himself, then he's not compelled to do so.

If you believe this is incorrect, then the onus is on you to provide your sources for the assertion.

Im actually asking for the sources.... i dont know... that is if anyone knows..

e.g. information like this "The only two pieces of legislation that require a Garda to produce ID are the road traffic acts and the offences against the state act."

MagicSean

sitja wrote: »

so where is your information based upon?

The absence of any legislation compelling them to provide you with a number in that situation. The only two pieces of legislation that compel a non-uniformed Garda to show ID are when exercising powers under the Road Traffic Act or the Offences Against the State Act. And the id need only be shown to the person who they are exercising the powers on.

sitja wrote: »

Yes seems the force these days seem to be suffering from an obesity problem.. well in my area anyway..

Ah I see. So when dealing with them you may not have been completely mannerly and possibly a bit insulting?

seamus

Without being too glib about it, both of those acts can be viewed at www.irishstatutebook.ie, so simply giving the names of the acts would be considered a "source" in these parts

MagicSean

sitja wrote: »

Im actually asking for the sources.... i dont know... that is if anyone knows..

e.g. information like this "The only two pieces of legislation that require a Garda to produce ID are the road traffic acts and the offences against the state act."

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0013/sec0030.html#sec30

I can't link the Road Traffic Act one because it has been ammended so many times it would be pointless and the obligation is in one of those ammendments.

sitja

MagicSean wrote: »

The absence of any legislation compelling them to provide you with a number in that situation. The only two pieces of legislation that compel a non-uniformed Garda to show ID are when exercising powers under the Road Traffic Act or the Offences Against the State Act. And the id need only be shown to the person who they are exercising the powers on.



Ah I see. So when dealing with them you may not have been completely mannerly and possibly a bit insulting?

I myself have had no bad dealings with the gardai on a personal level but as i said would you genuinely treat anyone that is beating on a defenceless kid with the uttermost respect... Make a balanced decision now on that one.. Is there a need for a grown man to hit a cuffed kid no matter what the circumstances are??

MagicSean

sitja wrote: »

I myself have had no bad dealings with the gardai on a personal level but as i said would you genuinely treat anyone that is beating on a defenceless kid with the uttermost respect... Make a balanced decision now on that one.. Is there a need for a grown man to hit a cuffed kid no matter what the circumstances are??

There are occasions when cuffs are not sufficient but I couldn't give you a balanced answer without the full facts. It's never as black and white as it seems. But i will say that if a fella with HIV tried to bite me, even though he was cuffed, I would have no qualms about subduing him in any way I had to. I would rather lose my job and get charged with assault than lose my life.

Corruptable

I'm sorry you didn't approve of my statement of the facts. If you feel there is improper behaviour and excessive force (I too don't approve of the alleged cuffing and assault), the sole official mechanism is to file a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman's Commission.

If you, like many others, feel that this process is inadequate, then it is your responsibility to lobby members of the Oireachtas to have it improved. That's how the system functions, I didn't invent it.

I've never really had a negative experience with gardai, but I have had negative experiences with young gurriers whose modus operandi often matches that which is described above, so it is my opinion that the powers given to gardai in this particular area are required and justified. The situation you witnessed isn't the best practice, but I'm sure that there's a reason for that (work related stresses, perhaps?).

Now, as for my username, it's refers nothing to my personality.

sitja

I totally agree in a circumstance like that, a close friend of mine and a member was recently spat in the face and again that is unforgivable... But 2 kids in a grounded position couldnt genuinely do much when the garda seemed to have the power to hold a lad with just one hand.. But i agree with you on that but the question remains.......... does the law???

MagicSean

sitja wrote: »

I totally agree in a circumstance like that, a close friend of mine and a member was recently spat in the face and again that is unforgivable... But 2 kids in a grounded position couldnt genuinely do much when the garda seemed to have the power to hold a lad with just one hand.. But i agree with you on that but the question remains.......... does the law???

One of the things i remember most from my training is a poster that was hanging in the station. It was a picture of a 16 year old kid. It had a warning.

"This person has stated his desire to infect as many Gardaí as he can with HIV before he dies"

Since that day I have never judged a person by his age or size. All it takes is one lapse in judgement for a person to get a chance to headbutt or bite you. Like i said, I can't say what was going on in the situation you described but neither can you. It's just as possible you were directed to leave for your own safety.

If you don't trust the Ombudsman then I suggest you address your concerns to the local Superintendent. You might get a quicker and more satisfying response.

sitja

Corruptable wrote: »

I'm sorry you didn't approve of my statement of the facts. If you feel there is improper behaviour and excessive force (I too don't approve of the alleged cuffing and assault), the sole official mechanism is to file a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman's Commission.

If you, like many others, feel that this process is inadequate, then it is your responsibility to lobby members of the Oireachtas to have it improved. That's how the system functions, I didn't invent it.

I've never really had a negative experience with gardai, but I have had negative experiences with young gurriers whose modus operandi often matches that which is described above, so it is my opinion that the powers given to gardai in this particular area are required and justified. The situation you witnessed isn't the best practice, but I'm sure that there's a reason for that (work related stresses, perhaps?).

Now, as for my username, it's refers nothing to my personality.

I too have dealt with maggots of all ages and at times the gardai do need to be assertive, but two wrongs dont make a right, i would be under the idea that the gardai should not break the law to uphold it, and thanks for that lobbying idea, might not be a bad thing to get involved with.

sitja

MagicSean wrote: »

One of the things i remember most from my training is a poster that was hanging in the station. It was a picture of a 16 year old kid. It had a warning.

"This person has stated his desire to infect as many Gardaí as he can with HIV before he dies"

Since that day I have never judged a person by his age or size. All it takes is one lapse in judgement for a person to get a chance to headbutt or bite you. Like i said, I can't say what was going on in the situation you described but neither can you. It's just as possible you were directed to leave for your own safety.

If you don't trust the Ombudsman then I suggest you address your concerns to the local Superintendent. You might get a quicker and more satisfying response.

Again animals like that should be put down but the gardai cant expect any better of the public if they treat them that way, I take my hat off to any member who can deal with a situation in the proper manner its not hard to see how they are tested with some scum. But as a member of the public its scary to see excessive force from the guys who are meant to be public figures..

I know if it was me giving the examples you have told and what my bud told me i would bash them.... but thats why im not in the force... i was hoping people like that wouldn choose that profession...

Being real though with you being a member..... If you came across a man beating the pulp out of another man or young teen (not knowing the situation) you would rip him off and arrest him more often than not..... would that be true.

Delancey

OP - as others have advised you : take your concerns to the Garda Ombudsman.

john reilly

MagicSean wrote: »

One of the things i remember most from my training is a poster that was hanging in the station. It was a picture of a 16 year old kid. It had a warning.

"This person has stated his desire to infect as many Gardaí as he can with HIV before he dies"

Since that day I have never judged a person by his age or size. All it takes is one lapse in judgement for a person to get a chance to headbutt or bite you. Like i said, I can't say what was going on in the situation you described but neither can you. It's just as possible you were directed to leave for your own safety.

If you don't trust the Ombudsman then I suggest you address your concerns to the local Superintendent. You might get a quicker and more satisfying response.

Is this an admission that you are prepared to give anybody regardles of age or sex a good beating (just in case).If they deserved it well and good and if they didnt, they can just dry their eyes. Can see you getting stripes soon

Corruptable

john reilly wrote: »

Is this an admission that you are prepared to give anybody regardles of age or sex a good beating (just in case).If they deserved it well and good and if they didnt, they can just dry their eyes. Can see you getting stripes soon

That's a truly disgraceful comment to make.

berrypendel

seamus wrote: »

If you as a citizen believed that a Garda was in the process of assaulting someone or using excessive force in carrying out and arrest, it would be lawful for you to intervene to prevent further injury to the person.

You'd want to be very, very sure that you're doing the right thing though otherwise you would be charged yourself for assaulting a Garda and impeding an arrest.

After the fact, your only option is the Ombudsman. Their website specifically states that a witness to alleged Garda misconduct is entitled to make a complaint.

They weren't "removing witnesses" as you claim, simply moving people on to prevent creating a public nuisance. If their intention was to cause harm to the kids, then as you say they would just wait to do it in the station rather than "remove witnesses" and give them a beating in public.

how do you know?

MagicSean

john reilly wrote: »

Is this an admission that you are prepared to give anybody regardles of age or sex a good beating (just in case).If they deserved it well and good and if they didnt, they can just dry their eyes. Can see you getting stripes soon

Is that what you got from that? Do you work for the Mail by any chance?

pirelli

MagicSean wrote: »

One of the things i remember most from my training is a poster that was hanging in the station. It was a picture of a 16 year old kid. It had a warning.

"This person has stated his desire to infect as many Gardaí as he can with HIV before he dies"

Since that day I have never judged a person by his age or size. All it takes is one lapse in judgement for a person to get a chance to headbutt or bite you. Like i said, I can't say what was going on in the situation you described but neither can you. It's just as possible you were directed to leave for your own safety.

If you don't trust the Ombudsman then I suggest you address your concerns to the local Superintendent. You might get a quicker and more satisfying response.

Thanks for your insight Magicsean...There is just as much a threat and risk to Nurses,paramedics, security officers and the general public and of course to the gardai and other professions.

I found it disgusting that the Gardai would have such a poster on the wall of the Garda station where you work obscured from the public eye. Just seems so sick.

Gardai can be abusive to young persons, as can security officials. There has always been some tension between authority and youths due to their naivety and mostly the generation gap which precludes them from being a part of the gardai. Teenagers play no role in policing while most other age groups do.

I find the need for such an incitement of hatred against male youths not only uneccessary but it almost makes me suspicious. A poster like that is clearly aimed at less experienced Gardai..I just find it disturbing in so many ways.

I was falsely arrested when i was a youth and framed for a crime by the Gardai. My trust and naviety made me vulnerable. If i had known such a depraved and mistrustful attitude existed...such hatred.

I am not surprised at the hateful way i was treated. I guess that poster was many years ago. I cannot imagine it still being used today.

john reilly wrote: »

Is this an admission that you are prepared to give anybody regardles of age or sex a good beating (just in case).If they deserved it well and good and if they didnt, they can just dry their eyes. Can see you getting stripes soon

:rolleyes: I am just assuming that the description of that poster made you feel the same revulsion i felt. That poster just comes across as a symbol of hateful secrecy, a us against them.

pirelli

MagicSean wrote: »

Is that what you got from that? Do you work for the Mail by any chance?

Magicsean ( I kinda hoped you did know some magic )

I am not meaning to be factitious. I respect Authority but if you think the daily mail is truncated in it's views what are we to make of poster depicting a young male teenager as a symbol of utter hatred like an animal to be killed hung in secrecy in the back room of the Garda station as a constant reminder while your all smiles out in reception.

Who is the real daily mail eh!

Corruptable

Data Protection or Photographic copyright issues surrounding that photo, anyone?

MagicSean

pirelli wrote: »

Thanks for your insight Magicsean...There is just as much a threat and risk to Nurses,paramedics, security officers and the general public and of course to the gardai and other professions.

I found it disgusting that the Gardai would have such a poster on the wall of the Garda station where you work obscured from the public eye. Just seems so sick.

Gardai can be abusive to young persons, as can security officials. There has always been some tension between authority and youths due to their naivety and mostly the generation gap which precludes them from being a part of the gardai. Teenagers play no role in policing while most other age groups do.

I find the need for such an incitement of hatred against male youths not only uneccessary but it almost makes me suspicious. A poster like that is clearly aimed at less experienced Gardai..I just find it disturbing in so many ways.

I was falsely arrested when i was a youth and framed for a crime by the Gardai. My trust and naviety made me vulnerable. If i had known such a depraved and mistrustful attitude existed...such hatred.

I am not surprised at the hateful way i was treated. I guess that poster was many years ago. I cannot imagine it still being used today.




:rolleyes: I am just assuming that the description of that poster made you feel the same revulsion i felt. That poster just comes across as a symbol of hateful secrecy, a us against them.

Perhaps I should clarify. The person in the poster was a local to the station and was often arrested for committing crimes. It was a warning to exercise caution when dealing with him. It wasn't a random youth with a general message.

MagicSean

pirelli wrote: »

what are we to make of poster depicting a young male teenager as a symbol of utter hatred like an animal to be killed hung in secrecy in the back room of the Garda station as a constant reminder while your all smiles out in reception.

What?

Turner

pirelli wrote: »

I found it disgusting that the Gardai would have such a poster on the wall of the Garda station where you work obscured from the public eye. Just seems so sick.

I think you are missing the point...

This poster in the Garda Station was a health and safety poster for Gardai. The youth had stated to Gardai that he was dying of HIV and that at any chance he got he would try and infect Gardai with his virus.

The poster was to warn Gardai of a potential life threatening attack by this youth.


There are hundereds of people who have indicated that they will kill or seriously main Gardai if they get the chance. Sure on Halloween certain people stole high powered jeeps with the intention of causing serious harm to Gardai, and they did. They rammed Garda cars and pinned a female Garda under a jeep against a tree.

Much to the delight of the wonderful residents of the estate who were enjoying the fireworks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3PdsUSrWok

Jesus Shaves

MagicSean wrote: »

OMG. Are our usernames real now? That's great news. i wonder what spells I can do.

Can i just say, hahahahahahahahahaha

Corruptable

MagicSean wrote: »

Perhaps I should clarify. The person in the poster was a local to the station and was often arrested for committing crimes. It was a warning to exercise caution when dealing with him. It wasn't a random youth with a general message.

Sean, I think that is the user's point. That a specific young person's photo with an attached warning was placed on a notice board warning those who encounter him to exercise appropriate caution.

I'm not sure of the legalities of it, but I'm certain that a lot of the generally politically correct civil liberties groups wouldn't approve of it and I'm sure they'd say it was a violation of the individual's rights, and pirelli evidently doesn't feel such a poster was appropriate.

I would accept that it mightn't be palatable to some, but then again it's not a regular job where one can sit in an ivory tower and pontificate, rather there are threats out there. Otherwise syringe offences wouldn't be a specific part of the NFOATPA 1997, for example.

pirelli

MagicSean wrote: »

Perhaps I should clarify. The person in the poster was a local to the station and was often arrested for committing crimes. It was a warning to exercise caution when dealing with him. It wasn't a random youth with a general message.

Do you not have meetings where you can discuss threat like that. Each shift has a supervisor that can discuss problems like this in a meeting like environment with all members.

It is completely inappropriate... It shows how difficult it must be to be a whistle blower in the force and how you must toe the line. I am just wondering if this youth was in the station and evidence was wrongfully obtained from him in clear view of all members in the station..not one of those Gardai would support the youth even if it meant the youth would be wrongfully convicted.

Quite the opposite it would be a job well done. Might as well put a picture up of a young Garda saying watch this rat/she he might co operate with a GSOC enquiry.

Break the silence lads!

MagicSean

pirelli wrote: »

Do you not have meetings where you can discuss threat like that. Each shift has a supervisor that can discuss problems like this in a meeting like environment with all members.

It is completely inappropriate... It shows how difficult it must be to be a whistle blower in the force and how you must toe the line. I am just wondering if this youth was in the station and evidence was wrongfully obtained from him in clear view of all members in the station..not one of those Gardai would support the youth even if it meant the youth would be wrongfully convicted.

Quite the opposite it would be a job well done. Might as well put a picture up of a young Garda saying watch this rat/she he might co operate with a GSOC enquiry.

Break the silence lads!

I'm sorry. I have no idea what you are on about.