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Compulsory hi viz from 2014 in Ireland

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    #32
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    carsQhere wrote: »
    I'm not sure I follow your logic. Let me clarify a couple of things in my capacity as a member of the MAG Ireland executive.

    MAG Ireland represents it's members first and foremost, they're the ones who keep the lights on, and it's our membership we answer to, nobody else.

    MAG Ireland's position on mandatory high viz is simple - we say "Let the rider decide". There is no suggestion of MAG Ireland agreeing "to some arbitrary number of bikers wering hi vis" and MAG Ireland does not represent the RSA in any way, shape or form, nor is MAG Ireland affiliated to any political party or organisation.

    As an organisation, MAG Ireland works constantly to promote and protect motorcycling.

    From http://www.magireland.org/faq/


    I trust this clarifies MAG's position in relation to MHV for you.



    People who choose to wear high visibilty clothing are not morons. They're making a choice that suits them, same as people who choose not to wear it. MAG Ireland is campaigning to retain this choice.

    Just on the last part, that's not at all what I said about people wearing hi viz. In relation to retaining choice, that's not the impression any of your posts give.

    I'll reply to the rest in the morning


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    #33
    Blondie919
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭Blondie919


    Even if Hi-Viz is made compulsory I don't think it's going to be enforced too strictly. Like, look at that law they brought in about the use of mobile phones while driving. That sure as hell isn't being enforced!! I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone being penalised for it, yet I see it EVERY day. And if hi-viz is made compulsory there are ways around it I am sure, I have an idea or two.


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    #34
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Legal Rider:

    hivizlegal.jpg

    Illegal Rider:

    hivizillegal.jpg


    From http://www.righttoride.eu/?p=7900


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    #35
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,347 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Blondie919 wrote: »
    Even if Hi-Viz is made compulsory I don't think it's going to be enforced too strictly. Like, look at that law they brought in about the use of mobile phones while driving. That sure as hell isn't being enforced!! I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone being penalised for it, yet I see it EVERY day. And if hi-viz is made compulsory there are ways around it I am sure, I have an idea or two.

    Not a good idea to bring in stupid laws even if they aren't enforced, but it's all too common.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #36
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    Don't forget a helmet. And indecent exposure laws probably means some sort of pants.
    Basically, you can drive your bike with a hi-vis, helmet and speedos :D

    Didn't a newspaper do an article on this? Had a picture of some guy with flip flops, shorts and a tee shirt, hi vis and helmet beside a guy with proper leathers with pads, boots and back protector. And it was the guy in the flip flops that was legal!
    That was a suggestion I made in the survey.


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    #37
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    My jacket, leggings, backpack (and my soon to be purchased new bike) all have reflective strips on them.

    It should be mandatory to wear proper motorcycle safety clothing that has hi-viz strips visible to other road users (not obscured by a plain backpack).

    It's a good compromise, makes sense and still allows motorcyclist to choose their overall appearance.


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    #38
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,340 ✭✭✭bladespin


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    My jacket, leggings, backpack (and my soon to be purchased new bike) all have reflective strips on them.

    It should be mandatory to wear proper motorcycle safety clothing that has hi-viz strips visible to other road users (not obscured by a plain backpack).

    It's a good compromise, makes sense and still allows motorcyclist to choose their overall appearance.

    Put all that hi-viz behind a lump of plastic (like a fairing) and what good does it do?

    Wouldn't recommend coming off a bike in leggings, that'd be a trip to the hospital for sure.

    Also, using that logic, shouldn't all cars, vans and lorries have high vis stripes on them too? :rolleyes:


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    #39
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    My jacket, leggings, backpack (and my soon to be purchased new bike) all have reflective strips on them.

    It should be mandatory to wear proper motorcycle safety clothing that has hi-viz strips visible to other road users (not obscured by a plain backpack).

    It's a good compromise, makes sense and still allows motorcyclist to choose their overall appearance.

    To the people who are shouting about how great an idea it is to put bikers to yet more expense, do you have any input on the normal rate of VAT being applied to these mandatory items of clothing?

    How is it a good compromise? That is not a compromise. That still means that the onus is being put totally on the biker because the RSA seem to just not be bothered about the fact that we don't run ourselves off the road. There isn't some magical magnetic pulse that attracts cars/jeeps/lorries to bikes, it is simply that people do not look for them to see hi viz/reflective strips. The RSA need to start focusing their energy and money on a campaign to improve biker awareness not making us all out to be mad max in fluorescent yellow.
    bladespin wrote: »
    Put all that hi-viz behind a lump of plastic (like a fairing) and what good does it do?

    Wouldn't recommend coming off a bike in leggings, that'd be a trip to the hospital for sure.

    Also, using that logic, shouldn't all cars, vans and lorries have high vis stripes on them too? :rolleyes:

    No doubt.


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    #40
    carsQhere
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭carsQhere


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    It should be mandatory to wear proper motorcycle safety clothing that has hi-viz strips visible to other road users (not obscured by a plain backpack).

    Do you see the flaw in your thinking there? You are working on the assumption that other road users will actually look.

    The whole problem is that they very often don't bother to look. No amount of "clothing that has hi-viz strips visible to other road users" will make any difference when the other road user simply doesn't bother to look. It really is that simple.

    A driver who is incapable of seeing motorcycle & rider in broad daylight unless the rider is clad in day-glo should not be on the road at all, end of.

    Whether it should be mandatory to wear proper motorcycle clothing is an entirely different argument. I personally wear all the gear all the time but that doesn't make me inclined to think that you should be forced to, any more than you should be forced to listen to the same music as I do, or read the same books or whatever.

    Can't people think for themselves??


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    #41
    carsQhere
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭carsQhere


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    My jacket, leggings, backpack (and my soon to be purchased new bike) all have reflective strips on them.

    Can I suggest you read this document? It's only 8 pages and it shouldn't take more than a few minutes of your time.

    http://www.magireland.org/forms/GettheFactsRSAHi-VisProposals.pdf


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    #42
    Kev.OC
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭Kev.OC


    carsQhere wrote: »
    Can I suggest you read this document? It's only 8 pages and it shouldn't take more than a few minutes of your time.

    http://www.magireland.org/forms/GettheFactsRSAHi-VisProposals.pdf

    Thank you, that was quite informative.


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    #43
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    Wow wow wow...you're preaching to the converted. I know that the onus should not be the biker to make themselves 'glow'. 12 years driving bikes, I know what the risks/causes are...drivers not paying attention, and poor skills/judgement.

    What I meant by compromise is that 'they' still get reflective clothing, but it's at no extra cost to us since our regular protective clothing (which we should be wearing) already has these reflective strips. Effectively, I'm saying "It's fine as it is...most of us are already wearing high visibility clothing".

    As for the effectiveness of hi-viz vests/strips, I don't know. What I can say is that it can't hurt, and it doesn't cost me anything extra for the strips, since they are built into almost all motorcycle safety gear.
    E.G...the reflective/hi-vis strips are clearly visible the below jacket.
    Armored-Motorcycle-Cordura-Jackets-1.jpg

    Oh, and by 'leggings' I didn't mean tracksuits leggings or similar. I meant proper motorcycle clothing with body armor/cushioning.

    And thanks for the link to the MAG report. Interesting read.


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    #44
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    bladespin wrote: »



    Also, using that logic, shouldn't all .... lorries have high vis stripes on them too? :rolleyes:

    Yes. And they do. We build them www.quinnrv.com

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #45
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Yes. And they do. We build them www.quinnrv.com

    A lot of them also have lights on them to illuminate the length of the lorry but the majority of the lorries that I see when I'm on the road (I live on one of the main routes to Rosslare and near the motorway from Waterford to Dublin so I would meet an awful lot of larger vehicles on the road) are either too filthy to make out that there is even lights on them or the lights themselves are not maintained and are not working.

    A few weeks before Christmas a lorry pulled out from a side road into my path, the lights along it's left hand side were not working (a few on the right hand side were working) and the front left headlight was not working either. He pulled out across me and then swerved over into the hard shoulder when he realised I was there (I could see the look on his face after he had eventually spotted me, if you're on bikes everyday you see that look at least twice a day).


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    #46
    FGR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭FGR


    I always wear a hi vis Sam Browne belt for my own satisfaction but going down the road of mandatory full hi vis jackets is pretty much mad.

    I think it's only right that lights should be switched on at all times on a bike and that the rider wear proper body armour/clothing but if those driving can't see the big machine with the big bright white/red light coming towards/driving ahead of you then what's the hope in them seeing a hi vis vest?


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    #47
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,340 ✭✭✭bladespin


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Yes. And they do. We build them www.quinnrv.com

    You missed a bit, the cars, I'm more worried about them than any lorry, generally trucks driven better too.


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    #48
    taximus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭taximus


    Could anyone give me advice on attaining a full A license before moving to Spain? i have a provisional license but no motorbike experience. Can an irish license be exchanged for a Spanish one?


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    #49
    T954
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭T954


    taximus wrote: »
    Could anyone give me advice on attaining a full A license before moving to Spain? i have a provisional license but no motorbike experience. Can an irish license be exchanged for a Spanish one?

    Far as I know your Irish licence will do in Spain. I can drive in Poland on an Irsh licence and my wife can drive here with her licence. I could be wrong but I think its an EU wide thing.....one EU licence is accepted anywhere else in EU. Jusyt in case check with the Spanish authorities they will know best.

    Has anyone any idea whether this hi viz will actually be implemented? along with some of the other crazy proposals???? I think it was voted for being discussed more but nothing solid yet.


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    #50
    RosieJoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭RosieJoe


    taximus wrote: »
    Could anyone give me advice on attaining a full A license before moving to Spain? i have a provisional license but no motorbike experience. Can an irish license be exchanged for a Spanish one?

    Read this thread to give you a better idea on getting your licence.


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    #51
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,983 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Six months from permit to exam.


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