Luas fine

steviej25

A girl I know got a fine, when she arrived at the platform, the machine was not working and she was in a rush to work so she just got on. I know stupid of her but anyway she got caught. She showed the inspector her id and gave him the right address.Anyway she has just realised the he spelt her surname wrong.There is only one letter wrong but its a totally different name. Basically she wants to know if she can appeal it this way. I dont a clue so i said id ask her to see if anyone has a similar experience.

Victor

Any such appeal would be futile. If it went to count, the judge would just amend the summons.

Every stop has at least two ticket vending machines and if she went to the next stop there would be even more machines. There is a help point on platforms (strictly speaking emergency only) and a free phone number to report faults.

All attempts at a purchase are recorded in detail by the machine, so if there was a genuine machine fault, she should have raised that at the time so it could have been checked. Regardless, you aren't allowed travel on Luas without a ticket.

steviej25

As far as I know she tried both machines to no avail and then the luas arrived so she got on.

Losty Dublin

Luas won't strike their fixed ticket out, no bones on that. She could ignore it and await a court summons with the incorrect name on it. Turning up on foot of a summons will be taken as answering it and you'd be expected to defend or plead guilt on it, even with a minor detail wrong such as a spelling. A very good legal type might wriggle out of if but that's only a might and it will cost you a lot more than a fine, day off work etc. Best to pay it now and suck it up.

steviej25

Yeah I think she is going to pay it.But I think what she is asking is what is there to protect you from someone using your address as a fake address when the name on the fine is not yours.

Dravokivich

But, you said it's just the wrong spelling of her name. It's not someone elses name at all.

steviej25

of course it is someone elses name.if his name was james kelly and the fine said james keaney.totally different to me.

steviej25

Sorry It was the wrong spelling of her name.Its a different surname because of his mistake.

Carawaystick

maybe the next time a letter for that other person arrives at her home, she should return to sender, as no such person lives there....

steviej25

She had got on at Smithfield and was getting off at Abbey Street. When She arrived at the Smithfield stop, she found that both machines were not working and before she got a chance to report this through the machine,the Luas pulled up and due to the fact that she would be late for work, She decided there was no other option but to get on. As she was about to get off at her stop, an inspector got on and asked her for a ticket but she said that this was her stop and he stopped her by using force from getting off. She then explained that the ticket machine was not working so she could not get one. He then took her details and asked another man who can only be described as a junkie who was drinking a can of dutch gold beer if he had a ticket to which he was told no along with some profanities and the inspector just moved on to someone else. Now the girl in question is all in favour of fines for misuse of public transport but this was clearly out of her control as you must know yourself in this economic climate the last thing you can afford to do is be late for work.

she could try leaving earlier in future

hardly the luas' fault

steviej25

also true but you know women..:)
But its more so the way she was treated by the inspector and he didnt have the guts to do the same to the junkie.

steviej25

steviej25 wrote: »

also true but you know women..:)
But its more so the way she was treated by the inspector and he didnt have the guts to do the same to the junkie.

yes, being a woman, i do know women...

what he does to other passengers is none of her business tbh
she can make a complaint separately but it has no bearing on her own case

she got the luas with no ticket, end of

monument

Does she use a monthly, weekly or yearly ticket?

If she lives in Smithfield, it would be a good idea for the future for her to get a Leap card and keep it topped up.

steviej25 wrote: »

She decided there was no other option but to get on.

Loads of other options on that morning even after she was running late:

• Be late and check the machines on the other platforms.
• Run out to the quays and get a bus
• Rush to the next stop (350m away) and try to get there before the Luas (very possible along there)
• Be late and walk to the next stop (350m away) or walk the full way (1.3km)

Boom_Bap

It looks like you are probing for loopholes when your friend knowingly boarded the Luas without a ticket.

Time for your friend to be responsible for her actions.

steviej25

She is being responsible and Is going to pay her fine. She had already got the bus as far as Smithfield and traffic was madness this morning so she jumped out and said the luas would be quicker. Very costly mistake indeed.

frag420

My flatmate has been caught three times. Now he buys a weekly ticket every sunday eve but on the few occasions he has forgotten it(its in a different jacket, jeans etc) he has been caught.

On all occasion he has given correct name and address and all occasions a fine has arrived with name spelled wrong or address is wrong (apt No was incorrect but still got into the correct letterbox).

He has ignored all fines and nothing has come of it and the most recent was about 9 mths ago.

Now I am not advocating ingoring the fine. I am just saying what happened to my flatmate and how even though he gave correct info they kept making mistakes.

steviej25

Yeah I know what you mean. Dont get me wrong here,I am not advocating not to pay a fine or not to pay for the luas. I just feel that she was a bit harshly treated and discriminated against. I will tell her that but I think she just wants the fine out of the way? By the way how the hell did he get away with it 3 times? Im led to believe that they are very harsh on it.

cojomo2

bluewolf wrote: »

she could try leaving earlier in future

so she should leave unnecessarily early every morning just in case something really unlikely happens?

bluewolf wrote: »

hardly the luas' fault

Well, it was actually, all of their available machines were out of order. I think that's a very reasonable and genuine excuse not to have purchased a ticket.

if she's leaving approx 1min between arriving and the luas arriving, leaving a few more mins isn't unreasonable
and yes, delays can happen

before she got a chance to report this through the machine,the Luas pulled up and due to the fact that she would be late for work...

an excuse not to purchase a ticket, sure, an excuse to get on the tram, no

steviej25

Are you saying that everyone knows exactly when any of dublins transport is going to come. If you are, you obviously dont live in Dublin.

alright fine. she should always leave it to the last minute in future and take any excuse not to pay the fare, and if she doesn't, it's everyone else's fault
that ok?

and yes, i am from dublin, and i manage not to be late for work

she knew well enough she was going ot be late for work if she didn't get the luas immediately, so no, it's not dublin's public transport problem, it's still hers

Wile E. Coyote

cojomo2 wrote: »

so she should leave unnecessarily early every morning just in case something really unlikely happens?

You don't need to be Mystic Meg to know that traffic in Dublin City Centre is going to be bad no matter what morning you go in.

steviej25

Well you must not use public transport then. She Is actually never late whenever I was working with her anyway.

steviej25

But the luas is not disrupted by traffic. The unlikely thing he is referring to is the machines not working.

frag420

steviej25 wrote: »

Yeah I know what you mean. Dont get me wrong here,I am not advocating not to pay a fine or not to pay for the luas. I just feel that she was a bit harshly treated and discriminated against. I will tell her that but I think she just wants the fine out of the way? By the way how the hell did he get away with it 3 times? Im led to believe that they are very harsh on it.

I know that one time he rang them to contest the fine and they advised him to send a letter outlining why. It was turned down and the fine increased. He recieved one more letter after that and then nothing. From what I gather after one or two letters they just stopped sending them and as he was only renting and the fact that they always got some part of his name or address wrong he thought well what can they do.

They cant prove he lived in the address he gave and he never showed ID to them. He just claimed he did not carry any ID. They then asked for his mobile number and he flatly refused to give it to them when they were writing up the fine.

That was the end of it.

Tarabuses

steviej25 wrote: »

of course it is someone elses name.if his name was james kelly and the fine said james keaney.totally different to me.

You said there was only one letter wrong in her name on the summons but you give us an example with three letters wrong?

steviej25

Yeah I know to be honest I could not think of another set of names but I suppose my point is that due to the letter being wrong,it is an entirely different name.

angel01

But she was the person who didn't pay a fare so she wants to get off because of one letter being incorrect in her name.

Pull the other one. She boarded the luas without a fare, she deserves to be fined.

steviej25

No she is going to pay the fine, It is just the way she was treated by the inspector and how he decided not to get involved with the junkie which is totally wrong. One rule for all and all that.

angel01

steviej25 wrote: »

No she is going to pay the fine, It is just the way she was treated by the inspector and how he decided not to get involved with the junkie which is totally wrong. One rule for all and all that.

I am guessing because they generally value their life and don't want to risk being attacked.

The drug user didn't stop her buying a ticket. It is her own fault. She chose to get on without a ticket, I find it hard to believe that anyone would get into trouble for being late just once.. It is the same address, same person who was issued the fine. What a load of nonsense.

steviej25

I am guessing that too but lets be honest thats hardly fair either. Either do your job or not.

angel01

steviej25 wrote: »

I am guessing that too but lets be honest thats hardly fair either. Either do your job or not.

I would like to see you risk your life in order of chasing someone who is probably of no fixed abode.

How about buy a ticket before you board then...:)

steviej25

What I am saying is there is something seriously wrong when people like this can go around and do what they want, when they want and not be punished for it. While her taxes and fine will have to pay for their dole every week.

AlekSmart

steviej25 wrote: »

I am guessing that too but lets be honest thats hardly fair either. Either do your job or not.

It's quite possible,and more probable that Dutch Gold Man was in possession of a DSP Free Travel Pass of some description.

Smithfield stop has Four TVM's so whilst the two on the inbound platform might have been O/O/O the other pair might not..

If it's moring peak we're talking about,then we're probably looking at a 4 min gap anyway...?

Best excuse for a LeapCard purchase I'v yet seen on here ?

AlekSmart

steviej25 wrote: »

What I am saying is there is something seriously wrong when people like this can go around and do what they want, when they want and not be punished for it. While her taxes and fine will have to pay for their dole every week.

Ah...the 64,000 sheckel question,which,with the recent Fare Increases,is starting to occur to a LOT more people on a daily basis now.

However......That's not the issue of the Post,which is about finding means of dodging consequences ?

steviej25

She actually went out at lunch and purchased the leap card.haha. He may have one of these cards but he just told the inspector no and told him to you know what. So he didnt produce it if he had one.

MyKeyG

steviej25 wrote: »

I am guessing that too but lets be honest thats hardly fair either. Either do your job or not.

For the record I don't think your friend has an argument either but as a completely separate issue I too think it's nonsense that the red line seems to be free to junkies just because the security lads are afraid of them then get all tough on people who work for a living.

yoyo

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's quite possible,and more probable that Dutch Gold Man was in possession of a DSP Free Travel Pass of some description.

Smithfield stop has Four TVM's so whilst the two on the inbound platform might have been O/O/O the other pair might not..

If it's moring peak we're talking about,then we're probably looking at a 4 min gap anyway...?

Best excuse for a LeapCard purchase I'v yet seen on here ?

Exactly, Heroin addicts afaik are entitled to free travel, also the probability of him being homeless is quite likely also, meaning trying to get a summons to him would be quite a bit difficult and probably not worth their while. I got the red line for most of last summer and if junkies were on without a ticket or pass they were kicked off. I'd say the inspector took a sensible decision that as the person was likely drunk and maybe high on something else best leave him be, for his and other passengers safety.
I would definately say though if she would be using public transport to get a leap card as that will let her hop on and off the Bus/Luas etc. I do feel sorry for her in this case, and I think had she made it known before boarding she would have gotten off, but once you board without a ticket afaik you will be fined no matter the circumstances.
Tbh I have a free travel pass myself and I think the whole system needs to be re-thought. I know there bringing in new cards which is a step in the right direction but at the moment the passes themselves consist of a bit of cardboard with a plastic photo ID card, I'd say not the hardest thing in the world to forge and there is no way for an inspector to "validate" the pass is genuine or not. Simply flashing the pass the inspector walks off.
As someone on free travel I wouldn't mind paying some of the fee, in other countries thats how it works and I think its fair enough. But thats for another thread!

Nick

o1s1n

She could always try writing Veolia a letter?

I use a weekly bus and luas ticket at a cost of €30. You have to validate the ticket on a bus before getting on the luas. (which is daft in itself, there should be a way of validating it as a Luas stop)

I got on the bus but the machine was broken. So I had absolutely no way of validating the ticket before boarding the Luas.

As I had a ticket, I thought I'd be fine. I just spent €30 on it afterall.

Inspector got on and fined me saying it was invalid. I told him he was basically fining me because a Dublin Bus ticket machine wasn't working. He agreed with me, but fined me anyway.

I wrote a letter explaining the situation and attached my Bus/luas ticket from that week (which printed the next morning on a bus).

I received a letter back about a week later saying I didn't have to pay the fine.

steviej25

Are you serious, you have to validate it on a bus first. That is a joke. I would not get the luas much but whenever I did, I have never seen a junkie being kicked off. I was reading an article yesterday, apparently 8 in every thousand is addicted to heroin. This place can only get worse.

Victor

steviej25 wrote: »

Yeah I think she is going to pay it.But I think what she is asking is what is there to protect you from someone using your address as a fake address when the name on the fine is not yours.

But we know this isn't the case, specifically she signed the ticket with the wrong name.

steviej25 wrote: »

Anyway she has just realised the he spelt her surname wrong.There is only one letter wrong but its a totally different name.

steviej25 wrote: »

of course it is someone elses name.if his name was james kelly and the fine said james keaney.totally different to me.

---

steviej25 wrote: »

She had got on at Smithfield and was getting off at Abbey Street. When She arrived at the Smithfield stop, she found that both machines were not working and before she got a chance to report this through the machine,the Luas pulled up and due to the fact that she would be late for work, She decided there was no other option but to get on. As she was about to get off at her stop, an inspector got on and asked her for a ticket but she said that this was her stop and he stopped her by using force from getting off.

I can't imagine an inspector doing this.

He then took her details and asked another man who can only be described as a junkie who was drinking a can of dutch gold beer if he had a ticket to which he was told no along with some profanities and the inspector just moved on to someone else.

Irrelevant.

Now the girl in question is all in favour of fines for misuse of public transport but this was clearly out of her control as you must know yourself in this economic climate the last thing you can afford to do is be late for work.

So the inspector detained her ... resulting in her being late for work?

steviej25 wrote: »

She is being responsible and Is going to pay her fine. She had already got the bus as far as Smithfield and traffic was madness this morning so she jumped out and said the luas would be quicker. Very costly mistake indeed.

I can only imagine that you are making things up at this stage. Given the continuous bus lane ont he North Quays, bus is invariably faster than Luas. Staying on the bus is invariably faster than changing from bus to Luas and walking between the stops.

frag420 wrote: »

On all occasion he has given correct name and address and all occasions a fine has arrived with name spelled wrong or address is wrong (apt No was incorrect but still got into the correct letterbox).

And he signed this fine?

cojomo2 wrote: »

so she should leave unnecessarily early every morning just in case something really unlikely happens?

No, just a prudent allowance.

Well, it was actually, all of their available machines were out of order.

No, only two machines are alleged to be out of order.

steviej25 wrote: »

Are you saying that everyone knows exactly when any of dublins transport is going to come. If you are, you obviously dont live in Dublin.

But she was at a Luas stop - it tells you exactly when the next tram will be.

o1s1n wrote: »

I use a weekly bus and luas ticket at a cost of €30. You have to validate the ticket on a bus before getting on the luas. (which is daft in itself, there should be a way of validating it as a Luas stop)

Leap is likely to solve this.

steviej25 wrote: »

Are you serious, you have to validate it on a bus first. That is a joke.

No, those are the rules of a Bus and Luas ticket.

steviej25

Yes we know this but it is possible

mikemac1

steviej25 wrote: »

It is just the way she was treated by the inspector and how he decided not to get involved with the junkie which is totally wrong. One rule for all and all that.

Always the way, the quiet person with no ticket gets fined, ok that's fair enough

The aggressive skanger brigade get no fine and at most get put off the Luas so they get the next one. Or else they get ignored, so they drink their cans in peace.

Easier to check and fine the person who won't talk back

As you say one rule for some and one rule for others

Victor

mikemac1 wrote: »

Always the way, the quiet person with no ticket gets fined, ok that's fair enough

The aggressive skanger brigade get no fine and at most get put off the Luas so they get the next one. Or else they get ignored, so they drink their cans in peace.

Easier to check and fine the person who won't talk back

As you say one rule for some and one rule for others

Its about cost efficiency. Public transport needs 90-something per cent of people to have tickets to break even. Some people always pay. Most people usually pay. 5% will do their damnedest to not pay. Encouraging some of them to pay is worthwhile. Chasing the most evasive offenders through the courts, etc., can get expensive and transport operators make a call based on who they can make pay and who they can't.
.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

steviej25, your friend is dead right to be pssed off about the ticket inspector ignoring the junkies, they're terrified of them. your female friend was probably seen as an easy target. i'm shocked they even had the balls to check between smithfield and abbey, usually they ignore that part and check tickets on the routes with more professionals and less scumbags.

a friend was caught twice with no ticket and just refused to give his name or address and walked off.

schemingbohemia

georgiecasey wrote: »

steviej25, your friend is dead right to be pssed off about the ticket inspector ignoring the junkies, they're terrified of them. your female friend was probably seen as an easy target. i'm shocked they even had the balls to check between smithfield and abbey, usually they ignore that part and check tickets on the routes with more professionals and less scumbags.

a friend was caught twice with no ticket and just refused to give his name or address and walked off.

Following your logic is it true to say that you are friends with a junkie and/or scumbag?

-Chris-

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Following your logic is it true to say that you are friends with a junkie and/or scumbag?

Attack the post, not the poster.

countrygirl2

hi,i was just wonderin,myself and a few friends got the luas without ticets,i gve wrong name and adress so did 1 of my friends,the didnt take my phone number or ask for id,so the 3rd friend gve all details correct but dint get asked for id,yet she recieved a fine in the post for 45 euro,would she have to pay??and what would our story be as well??

NuMarvel

countrygirl2 wrote: »

hi,i was just wonderin,myself and a few friends got the luas without ticets,i gve wrong name and adress so did 1 of my friends,the didnt take my phone number or ask for id,so the 3rd friend gve all details correct but dint get asked for id,yet she recieved a fine in the post for 45 euro,would she have to pay??and what would our story be as well??

Why would you expect her not to pay?

On the other hand, maybe she'd get an amnesty if she turned the rest of you in .

Losty Dublin

countrygirl2 wrote: »

hi,i was just wonderin,myself and a few friends got the luas without ticets,i gve wrong name and adress so did 1 of my friends,the didnt take my phone number or ask for id,so the 3rd friend gve all details correct but dint get asked for id,yet she recieved a fine in the post for 45 euro,would she have to pay????

She doesn't actually have to pay the fine but if she doesn't pay it a court summons will be issued to her in a few months time.

You're a jolly good friend to cheat your way out of this while she gets stung BTW.