Car Clamped in Driveway in Managed Estate

sidders

this might seem like a rant , and has already been coverd ,
but this morning i left my house for work , walked to my car in my driveway only to find its been clamped , IN MY OWN DRIVEWAY :mad:
is this possible\legal , by apcoa the "parking company" D**ks
i live in leixlip where the only parking area is in the town which is 2km from my house ,
now i have to pay 100 euro to get it released , THE F !!!
Oh and i was late for work

Fratton Fred

sidders wrote: »

this might seem like a rant , and has already been coverd ,
but this morning i left my house for work , walked to my car in my driveway only to find its been clamped , IN MY OWN DRIVEWAY :mad:
is this possible\legal , by apcoa the "parking company" D**ks
i live in leixlip where the only parking area is in the town which is 2km from my house ,
now i have to pay 100 euro to get it released , THE F !!!
Oh and i was late for work

Someone entered yiur property and clamped your car?

Sounds like trespass to me.

What was their excuse/reason for clamping you?

boltcutters

sidders

reason "you havnt paid management fees"

thats a load of b***s**t ,
and its the actually apcoa company - called the call center , lo and behold couldnt understand a word he said aprat from "you must pay sir"


POLICE = called, altho these are the same people when my car was broken into in the same spot , 6 months ago and i still havnt heard any corrispondance from them, so tbh im not expecting much

Plates

Will be following this thread with interest today....:D

Cookie_Monster

technically it's illegal but you might want to read the fine print of your house sale where you probably signed allowing them to do it if you don't pay the fees...

DarkJager

Boltcutters and leave it out on the road for them to collect. If they clamp it again, same process.

oisindoyle

the reason as far as i am aware is a car is clampled because it is parked illegally ,,,since your car was parked in your driveway,,the clampers trepassed onto your property and clamed your pocession ,,,, i cannot see how a managemant company (disgusting money grabbers if u ask me ) can instruct a clamping company to clamp you for failure of management ,,,any proper man., co., would go down the legal route for fees ,,
I think your best bet is to go legal yourself and sue the clampers they had no right to do what they did ,,,,

thebiglad

oisindoyle wrote: »

i cannot see how a managemant company (disgusting money grabbers if u ask me )

The management fees cover lifes luxuries such as Insurance for public areas within the estate, for grass to be cut etc - that apart from the fact that it clear when purchasing that such a fee will apply.

The Management company is run by the estate, for the estate how that be money grabbing - it is certainly not a profit making operation.

Why should other residents fund those who are unwilling to pay - doubtless if you could not afford to pay but bothered to tell the managing agents then no clamping penalty would apply.

panevthe3rd

If the management agency is allowed clamp a car for non-payment of fees then where does it end?

Will people be clamped for not paying for electricity, tv licence, house hold charge, etc?

Also, if you don't pay management fees and this is what they do then do they knock off the clamping fee from your total owed or is it just a extra fee on top of what you owe them?

sidders

i am going to fight this tooth and nail as i feel morrally raped.
i shouldnt have to worry about things like this when to my knowledge all my payments have been ontime via direct debit especially as it was on my private property

Motorist

Bolt cutters all the way. Dont even waste your time trying to reason with APCOA. They are a bunch of flucking scumbags.

Fratton Fred

All this talk about bolt cutters is madness.


Get an angle grinder and cut the clamp into lots of little pieces.

jetsonx

Motorist wrote: »

Bolt cutters all the way. Dont even waste your time trying to reason with APCOA. They are a bunch of flucking scumbags.

yes, if they did'nt have a job with APCOA, most of them would be in Mountjoy.

seanmacc

Surely, they can't do this in any circumstances.

What if you'd a wife in labour, a sick child or other emergency which required you to leave quickly in your car. I'd be looking for blood for this.

Nothingbetter2d

buy a clamp and clamp the clamper's van then tell them you will release their van when they release your car

sidders

i have a buddy who can pick locks,

im gonna chance my arm at getting it picked off , and dening that i ever got the bloody thing as i have been "driving around all day"

BrianD

I don't think that APOCOA would have a leg to stand on if clamping is used to enforce payment of management fees. They also made a big mistake by stating that this is the reason.

If the clamps are removed on private property then there is a long arguement that it is a civil matter.

They will soon realise that this form of "enforcement and punishment" is unviable.

Losty Dublin

sidders wrote: »

i have a buddy who can pick locks,

im gonna chance my arm at getting it picked off , and dening that i ever got the bloody thing as i have been "driving around all day"

They usually take a photo of the car with the clamp on it by way of proof that the car was clamped.

I'd love to hear the full story of this as it sounds a right juicy one

littleredspot

Just for clarity, is your "driveway" in your garden or part of a communal parking area? Hard to imagine that they'd enter a walled/fenced area which is clearly your property, surely they'd be open to all sort of legal issues if they did.

Run_to_da_hills

Fratton Fred wrote: »

All this talk about bolt cutters is madness.


Get an angle grinder and cut the clamp into lots of little pieces.

You have to be very careful with angle grinders, sparks will permanently etch glass and damage paint work. If you are grinding you must cover the surrounding area where sparks will hit with a fire blanket and have a bucket of water beside you. I have done it several times.

sidders

thats why im getting a locksmith,

yes its my driveway reserved for me not in a comunial driveway

Ste.phen

Mostly guesses:

* The OP's 'driveway' isn't owned by them, but is part of the parking spaces owned by the management company
* The OP hasn't paid their fees
* The fees entitle the OP to a parking permit, allowing them to park in one of the management company's spaces
* Apcoa clamped the OPs care on instruction of the management company, because the OP is parking on their property without permission

Whatever about the general 'is clamping the correct way to deal with people parking without permission' argument, it seems to me like the answer to 'was the OP parking without permission?' is probably 'yes'

newbie2

Ste.phen wrote: »

Mostly guesses:

* The OP's 'driveway' isn't owned by them, but is part of the parking spaces owned by the management company
* The OP hasn't paid their fees
* The fees entitle the OP to a parking permit, allowing them to park in one of the management company's spaces
* Apcoa clamped the OPs care on instruction of the management company, because the OP is parking on their property without permission

Whatever about the general 'is clamping the correct way to deal with people parking without permission' argument, it seems to me like the answer to 'was the OP parking without permission?' is probably 'yes'

this.

Run_to_da_hills

sidders wrote: »

thats why im getting a locksmith,

yes its my driveway reserved for me not in a comunial driveway

A locksmith may not want to get involved in this unless you personally know someone in the trade, also the price of a call out locksmith would buy you an angle grinder, extension lead and fire blanket. Also you may need to use them again.

meanmachine3

if it's still clamped in your drive way take a pic and either head down to your local T.D. , get a solicitor or get onto joeee duffyyyyy.
B.T.W if using a solicitor and you've had to use alternative modes of transport keep all receipts and make sure the damn feckers are billed for those as well.

bmaxi

thebiglad wrote: »

oisindoyle wrote: »

i cannot see how a managemant company (disgusting money grabbers if u ask me )

The management fees cover lifes luxuries such as Insurance for public areas within the estate, for grass to be cut etc - that apart from the fact that it clear when purchasing that such a fee will apply.

The Management company is run by the estate, for the estate how that be money grabbing - it is certainly not a profit making operation.

Why should other residents fund those who are unwilling to pay - doubtless if you could not afford to pay but bothered to tell the managing agents then no clamping penalty would apply.

Don't know where you live but that's certainly not the case where I live.
The Management Company is run by the developer and a Board of 7 "Subscribers", basically cronies of the developer. In relation to any matter relating to the estate, fees, board members etc., each household has one vote while each subscriber has 30 votes. In an estate of 190 houses, I'll leave you to do the maths.

foggy_lad

sidders wrote: »

thats why im getting a locksmith,

yes its my driveway reserved for me not in a comunial driveway

Get yourself a good bolt-cutters. and take photographs of any damage that may have been caused by the clampers!

In the UK this type of "enforcement" is very common where "bailiffs" are employed by local authorities and management companies to recover monies owed. they are allowed clamp cars as a means of encouraging payment of debts especially parking fines, they are also allowed charge you for their recovery attempts etc.

Here in Ireland these companies have no right to interfere with private property unless they are repossessing a car from outside your house.

foggy_lad

any group of residents can sack the management company and do the job themselves or employ a good solicitor or good management company not tied up with the developer or builder to do the job. The thing at the end of the day is that some houses/apartments will be empty and others will be occupied but the owners or occupiers will not pay the fees.

jd

bmaxi wrote: »

Don't know where you live but that's certainly not the case where I live.
The Management Company is run by the developer and a Board of 7 "Subscribers", basically cronies of the developer. In relation to any matter relating to the estate, fees, board members etc., each household has one vote while each subscriber has 30 votes. In an estate of 190 houses, I'll leave you to do the maths.

Does the MUD act not apply in this situation?

bmaxi

jd wrote: »

Does the MUD act not apply in this situation?

Obviously I haven't been keeping up to speed, I thought that only applied to apartments. The situation hasn't changed here so I'll have to read up on that.

Jaysoose

As much as it pains me the OP is in the wrong here, management fees are to maintain communal areas etc so if he hasnt paid the Fee then he obviously loses the right to use these. Its a crappy situation but in fairness its a situation of his own making.

The thing people dont seem to realise or want to accept is that this type of communal living costs money to maintain, and if some tenants/owners dont pay then the cost falls on everybody else and the Fees themselves rise because of this.

No sympathy.

Paparazzo

The clampers will probably tell you that because you didn't pay management fees, your car is considered to be the same as some random strangers car.
Check the rules you signed up to. If your house comes with a parking space you have more rights. I doubt very much it says in the terms and conditions that they can clamp you if you don't pay.
Personally I'd get the angle grinder. Being held to ransom like that in your own home is crazy. Private clampers are the lowest of the low.

thebiglad

BrianD wrote: »

I don't think that APOCOA would have a leg to stand on if clamping is used to enforce payment of management fees. They also made a big mistake by stating that this is the reason.

If the clamps are removed on private property then there is a long arguement that it is a civil matter.

They will soon realise that this form of "enforcement and punishment" is unviable.

The clamp is not used to enforce management fees directly - what happens is that only 'residents' who have paid the management fees will be given a parking permit. Those vehicles without a parking permit whether resident or otherwise (APCOA have no way to tell and don't care) clamp all cars without a permit.

Clamping will have been agreed at an AGM and so effectively changes the contract terms. If you did not attend the AGM or were out-voted no good in complaining now.

BrianD

thebiglad wrote: »

The clamp is not used to enforce management fees directly - what happens is that only 'residents' who have paid the management fees will be given a parking permit. Those vehicles without a parking permit whether resident or otherwise (APCOA have no way to tell and don't care) clamp all cars without a permit.

Clamping will have been agreed at an AGM and so effectively changes the contract terms. If you did not attend the AGM or were out-voted no good in complaining now.

I would agree but the APOCOA spokesman said it was for not paying management fees (as opposed to not having a parking tag as a result of not paying management fees). It would therefore be reasonable to assume that the clamping actions are to do with credit control and not parking control.

I don't know what the state of affairs is at the particular development in question but I think it's safe to assume that there is always the possibility of a resident being in dispute with the management company or have a grievance. Therefore it would be unreasonable and unfair for the co. to effectively punish the resident while the dispute is being resolved?

gsxr1

Our management company is considering the same after a residents meeting.

Half of our estate has not paid the 500 euro a year fee. Yet they use the bins and have a clean maintained, street lit area to live in.

Proper order to clamp. Why should you get away with it while people like me have to pay to dump your rubbish.

Our management company had to let go of the secretary last month because of the free loaders.

Pay your fees by installment. You will have to pay them at some stage anyways. Its usually in the contract that before a home is sold , all the fees must be payed, including arrears.

Why is this in this forum?

Cookie_Monster

gsxr1 wrote: »

Our management company is considering the same after a residents meeting.

Half of our estate has not paid the 500 euro a year fee. Yet they use the bins and have a clean maintained, street lit area to live in.

Proper order to clamp. Why should you get away with it while people like me have to pay to dump your rubbish.

Our management company had to let go of the secretary last month because of the free loaders.

Pay your fees by installment. You will have to pay them at some stage anyways. Its usually in the contract that before a home is sold , all theeeee fees must be payed, including arrears.

Why is this in this forum?

Why has the estate not been handed over to the council though?

Management fees are just a moneymaking scheme for the most part Imo, unless it's an apartment block it should be handed over to the council. 500 per year is scandalous!

n97 mini

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why has the estate not been handed over to the council though?

Management fees are just a moneymaking scheme for the most part Imo, unless it's an apartment block it should be handed over to the council. 500 per year is scandalous!

Probably is an apartment block or a "gated community".

Clamping is not the way to enforce payment of management fees. If someone owes you money do you clamp their car or take them to court?

Ste.phen

n97 mini wrote: »

Probably is an apartment block or a "gated community".

Clamping is not the way to enforce payment of management fees. If someone owes you money do you clamp their car or take them to court?

Depends on whether or not they're parking on your property, it seems.
First the car, then court, seems less hassle for all concerned that way

bmaxi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why has the estate not been handed over to the council though?

Probably because the Council won't take it. In my case, application was made to the local Council by the developer in 2007. Petty obstacle after petty obstacle has been raised, goalposts have been moved so often they are no longer even on the pitch.The simple fact is, the councils don't want to take over housing estates, the whole raison d'etre of Management Companies was to absolve the Local Authorities of the obligation to maintain housing estates. They have already told us that if and when they do take it over, they will not cut grass, sweep roads, etc. Just another reason to object to this household tax as far as I'm concerned, although I didn't need one.

Victor

seanmacc wrote: »

Surely, they can't do this in any circumstances.

What if you'd a wife in labour, a sick child or other emergency which required you to leave quickly in your car.

Call an ambulance.

bmaxi wrote: »

Don't know where you live but that's certainly not the case where I live.
The Management Company is run by the developer and a Board of 7 "Subscribers", basically cronies of the developer. In relation to any matter relating to the estate, fees, board members etc., each household has one vote while each subscriber has 30 votes. In an estate of 190 houses, I'll leave you to do the maths.

Then get legal advice and use the Multi-Unit Developments Act or claim oppression under the Companies Acts.

bmaxi

Victor wrote: »

Call an ambulance.

Very clever. I love it when inhabitants of the Metropolis make off the cuff remarks like that. Try that when you live in a rural area, you'd have a better chance of being teleported via the Enterprise, and I don't mean the train.

Victor

bmaxi wrote: »

Very clever. I love it when inhabitants of the Metropolis make off the cuff remarks like that. Try that when you live in a rural area, you'd have a better chance of being teleported via the Enterprise, and I don't mean the train.

This would appear to be at odds with the OP living in what appears to be a managed development.

bmaxi

Victor wrote: »

This would appear to be at odds with the OP living in what appears to be a managed development.

Why? Do you think managed developments are unique to Dublin?

Lantus

If you own a house which is implied and the driveway is your own private property then I would argue that clamping is not a legal route to take in this instance (this is not leagl advice.)

The situation is different in say an apartment where there is a car park used by all the residents. These are classed as common areas and run and technically owned by the OMC. clamping and parking permits are common to ensure payment.

however, if the driveway is part of your house then I would argue they have no more right to clamp your car then say change your locks to your house when you are away.

You dont say how many 'reminders' you got asking you to pay or if you were warned about getting clamped in writing prior to this taking place.

I would have no wories about removing the clamp photo or no photo. The payment is to remove it and if it's not on any more there is no need to pay. pick the lock if possible (these locks are among the easier to pick.) or cut if off taking all precaustions as others have stated.

However, you should think about talking with your OMC about making payment and any back payment. Get more involved in the OMC, is it run by the developer or the residents?

Taking in charge covers you for as a minimum the sewers, the roads and the street lighting. Some areas may do more but dont expect it. Even in an estate made up of just houses there will be grass cutting and landscaping, public liability insurance, probably some walls and other areas that will need to be looked after and a requirement for a sinking fund (by law.) landscaping is often the biggest. We have around 10 acres in an estate of just 200 houses and some apartments. we do it ourselves....great fun....

And yes, coco's are digging there heels in with taking in charge. the system is flawed and no one is in any hurry to change it.

odds_on

IMHO, this thread should be in Legal Discussions where decent advice is more likely to be offered - not "get an angle grinder" or "use a bolt cutters".

ProudDUB

sidders wrote: »

i am going to fight this tooth and nail as i feel morrally raped.
i shouldnt have to worry about things like this when to my knowledge all my payments have been ontime via direct debit especially as it was on my private property

According to the OP, the mgt fees HAVE been paid.

OP, have you contacted your bank to see if the direct debits are still taking place? Check your bank statements. Have you checked with the mgt company to see if they have received the payments? If the payments have been made, the mgt company should reimburse you for the clamping fee. They should also assist you with finding out why the clampers targeted you and your car in the first place. It could happen again if you don't.

Could it be possible that the direct debits were canceled or never took place as they should? Just one missed payment can be all it takes to cancel it. If that is the case, and the mgt companies policy is to clamp non payers, then you are probably $hit out of luck. It is your responsibility to make sure they get paid, not theirs. Although it does seem kinda rude for them not to send you a letter at the very least, notifying you that there is a problem before they send in the clamping cavalry.

overshoot

bmaxi wrote: »

Very clever. I love it when inhabitants of the Metropolis make off the cuff remarks like that. Try that when you live in a rural area, you'd have a better chance of being teleported via the Enterprise, and I don't mean the train.

Victor wrote: »

This would appear to be at odds with the OP living in what appears to be a managed development.

sorry but have you seen where some estates have gone up? a village would be an overstatement, the odds of a local ambulence service zero especially considering a lot of towns share ambulence services. the op did not officially state his location but he has lexlip in his info, so if accurate it may have a decent response time, but as the general rule with health being minutes count, him having access to a car may still cost these mintues. either way its not really relevant, the issue is should he have access to the car or not.

odds_on wrote: »

IMHO, this thread should be in Legal Discussions where decent advice is more likely to be offered - not "get an angle grinder" or "use a bolt cutters".

+1 on this the man needs proper legal advice, but i cant see how they could clamp him on non communal land.
id be keeping the receipt of every bus, taxi etc you have had to take as a result of not having access to the car and looking for it too if they (as id expect) dont have a leg to stand on, fees or not. (if you have paid, double check) look for official written reason from all concerned, clamping company included.

gsxr1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why has the estate not been handed over to the council though?

Management fees are just a moneymaking scheme for the most part Imo, unless it's an apartment block it should be handed over to the council. 500 per year is scandalous!

500 a year is quite good. We have big dumpsters that can take as much rubbish as we can throw at it . Landscape gardeners keep the flowers and trees perfect and sweep the street, plus the street lighting running and maintenance.

Its a good deal. How much does a years worth of bin tags cost.

The council will not take over my street. Underground carpark and an apartment block.

mathepac

I agree the thread needs to be moved as quite a few posters are confused between a "management company" and a "managing agent" and some don't seem to realise that a privately managed estates / MUD will never be taken in charge by a local authority.

If OP is a property owner in the estate (as seems to be the case by one of his posts mentioning payment of management fees) then his is a member of the management company so suing the management company is akin to suing himself.

The managing agent on the other hand is under the direct control and supervision of the management company (as a paid agent) and their performance, and anyone they appoint to carry out specific work. needs to be subject review at regular (quarterly ?) intervals as well as at the mandatory AGM. OP, do you attend AGMs and participate in the election of management company directors, budget reviews, appointment of managing agent and policy setting?

It's gone way beyond time that lease-holders / property owner in MUD get up to speed on this stuff to avoid confusion and conflict, as well as the proliferation of pointless posts on the subject.

amdublin

Op - have you paid your mgmt fees?
If yes then it seems to be a (major) mistake on their part.

If you have not paid your mgmt fees then IMO you should pay your fees in order to use the facilities without being clamped.