Can you answer me a question?

godtabh

I live in an apartment complex. Permit parking was recently introduced. There is a persistent offender who happens to be a Garda.

Recently his car was being clamped. He produced his bage and told the calmper he would arrest him if he clamped it as because he needs his (personal) car for official business. Clamper didn't want to escalate things so left it.

He did inform his boss. His boss told us the directors of the apartment block. He is going to the ombudsmen over what happen as he believes thIs is abuse of power.

Can gardai prevent their personal cars being clamped like this?

Terrontress

Good on that Garda. It's a pity more people can't get away with it.

ted1

No they can't.

godtabh

Terrontress wrote: »

Good on that Garda. It's a pity more people can't get away with it.

Thats for a different time and thread

godtabh

ted1 wrote: »

No they can't.

I would have assumed that. If a complaint is made how is it handled?

msg11

So a clamper clamps an Off Duty Gardas personal car. I have to agree with the Garda in this case, although I doubt I would have said I would arrest him.

Picture this.

This Garda has a man up in court for a serious rape. Garda is heading to court only to find his car clamped. I can't see that looking to good for him in fairness.

Then again if the way he was parking was taking the absolute piss then someone should have a word with someone about his attitude.

But in my experience these private clamping company's, clamp people for been 2cm outside the box. And are an absolute joke, let not mention how much of a legal minefield they are, people on here have even said they are operating illegally and like cowboys.

Turner

If the Garda is using his own car and on duty he cannot be clamped or fined for parking speeding ect. (Dangerous driving or drink driving he can be arrested)

If you are not happy about this contact the Ombudsman to get it out of your system and then the Minister for Justice to get the law changed.

MagicSean

Does he live there? Is he not entitled to a space?

goldie fish

The days are short for private clamping companies if Min for Justice has anything to say about it.

savagecabbages

I hate clampers. They are scum.

But he guard is abusing his power doing this in my opinion. If it was a once-off then fair enough. Reminds me of all the guards who can 'unrefuse' themselves entry to clubs/pubs with their badges, while its a different law for everyone else...

An Udaras

Dealt with a similar incident before where a member of the Gardai threatened to arrest a colleague of mine when in work.. Not wanting to mention specifics but I worked daily in a environment with members of the AGS, my colleague was quite upset over the abrupt encounter so after legal advice, She done two things, She requested the members Name & Number (as He was plain clothes) then.. Rang the ombudsman and also wrote a separate letter to the Super over the individual requesting the incident be investigated and She also requested clarification as to whether what the Garda had said was actually correct and was it illegal for her to be doing what she had being.

Response after the incident was investigated, was a letter of apology from the Super and later a formal apology from the member involved. He was rebuked over it, the ombudsman was contacted and informed that the matter had been resolved locally.. The same type of incident has never occurred since to my knowledge.. Her actions where not illegal unfortunately the member involved let the matter go to his head and I suppose act out of character.. one would hope..

In the OP instance, all the employee of the clamping company would need to do is to contact the members senior management and/or the Ombudsman pass on details of the incident and advise if they had felt they been threatened with arrest or if the member acted unprofessionally etc.. And then allow them to their role and investigate the matter..

Gardai when on duty have many exemptions under the law but when off duty they are subject to rigors of the law just like us all.

audidiesel

An Udaras wrote: »

Gardai when on duty have many exemptions under the law but when off duty they are subject to rigors of the law just like us all.

without knowing the wexact circumastances i wont comment, but technically gardai are never really off duty.

if a crime is witnessed off duty then the member is expected to deal with it. so from that point of view an off duty member is not the same as anyone else.

challengemaster

Isn't clamping a car in a public place an offense under section 113 of the RTA?

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

113.—(1) A person shall not, without lawful authority or reasonable cause, interfere or attempt to interfere with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary in a public place, or get on or into or attempt to get on or into the vehicle while it is so stationary.


(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.


(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that a person is committing an offence under this section, he may arrest the person without warrant.


(4) This section shall not apply to a person taking, in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle which is obstructing his lawful ingress or egress to or from any place, such steps as are reasonably necessary to move the vehicle by human propulsion for a distance sufficient to terminate the obstruction.


(5) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that, when he did the act alleged to constitute the offence, he believed, and had reasonable grounds for believing, that he had lawful authority for doing that act.

godtabh

Its a gated complex.
Garda lives there.
All residents who have paid their management fees or who have an arrangement are entitled to a parking permit.
Clamping company clamps any one who does not have a permit or park illegally.

All of this has been agreed and voted on at a recent agm.

Said garda owes approx €8k in fees ie has never paid or made any effort to pay since he bought the apartment. He has been taken to court and has a judgement against him.

The car was in the process of being clamped when the guard in question came out of his house, waived his badge and threaten to arrest him.

Our management agent has a good relationship with the local station and has been in to the with him over this matter. He has been advised to go clamp again and if the same issue happens to go to the ombudsman.

Whether or not clamping is morally wrong or what ever is something for a different thread.

groundhurling

If it's a private complex and you are made aware of the clamping arrangements then I'd be of the opinion you CAN be clamped...if my interpretation of the act quoted above is correct.

msg11

groundhurling wrote: »

If it's a private complex and you are made aware of the clamping arrangements then I'd be of the opinion you CAN be clamped...if my interpretation of the act quoted above is correct.

It's law of the statue, dose not matter what arrangement is in place. There interfering with a car, it's against the law.

The same way shops can make there own policy's all day long, but when it comes down to it the statue is always the one that comes first.

Also no need to mention the 8K. I find it obscured that people get clamped in apartment complexes, even when there parking in a parking spot. Money making scam if you ask me.

Thoie

msg11 wrote: »

Picture this.

This Garda has a man up in court for a serious rape. Garda is heading to court only to find his car clamped. I can't see that looking to good for him in fairness.

Picture this.

The solicitor representing the State in the serious rape case is heading to court, only to find his car clamped.

A witness of the rape is heading to court, only to find his car clamped.

I abhor private clampers, but garda badges should not be a "get out of jail free" card for personal misbehaviour.

Zambia

I see the piont but the clamp is there due to the drivers actions of being where he should not be. A bit like if the driver neglected to fill the cars fuel tank.

He cannot get to court due to his oversight not anothers.

Vikings

He shouldn't of done what he done, sure. But... (and I would say this for any person of any profession)

They are parked in a parking spot in a car park of an apartment complex where they own an apartment.

Knowing the back story of the management fee's etc. owed and the fact that a court judgement has been issued then surely clamping the fella is taking the biscuit.

Hate clampers, end of.

godtabh

Vikings wrote: »

He shouldn't of done what he done, sure. But... (and I would say this for any person of any profession)

They are parked in a parking spot in a car park of an apartment complex where they own an apartment.

Knowing the back story of the management fee's etc. owed and the fact that a court judgement has been issued then surely clamping the fella is taking the biscuit.

Hate clampers, end of.

he doesnt own the car parking spot. he has use of it at the discreation of the management company

deadwood

msg11 wrote: »

It's law of the statue..

How about a statue of the law?

FGR

These instances of just asking for trouble.

I don't for a second believe that any person should use their official powers (be they Gardaí, Customs, Judges, Doctors etc) in a capacity to personally benefit themselves. Given that this person is clearly acting in a capacity unbecoming of a member of AGS I would definitely have words with the local Superintendent.

This imo is a disciplinary matter as opposed to a legal matter. OP - without going into too many specifics. Is there any idea what the judgement entailed? Was it a fine or did it have a lasting consequence (ie. to not avail of said parking facilities until all fees have been paid?)

godtabh

he has a judgement against him for the outstanding management fees he owes.

eyesquirm

I thought a garda could be dismissed or suspended for having a court judgement against him or her?
Or am I wrong?

Vikings

godtabh wrote: »

he doesnt own the car parking spot. he has use of it at the discreation of the management company

godtabh wrote: »

he has a judgement against him for the outstanding management fees he owes.

Granted, same for everyone else in the complex I assume.

My gripe about this situation would be that there has already been a court judgement for him to repay the fees, i'm also assuming he has been given a timeframe to repay said fees. (if he can afford to that is)

Unless the court directed him not to park in the car park then clamping him is a little bit like double jeopardy to me. The court is penalising him (again i'm assuming) but yet so are the management company by not allowing him park there.

MagicSean

ForegoneReality wrote: »

These instances of just asking for trouble.

I don't for a second believe that any person should use their official powers (be they Gardaí, Customs, Judges, Doctors etc) in a capacity to personally benefit themselves. Given that this person is clearly acting in a capacity unbecoming of a member of AGS I would definitely have words with the local Superintendent.

This imo is a disciplinary matter as opposed to a legal matter. OP - without going into too many specifics. Is there any idea what the judgement entailed? Was it a fine or did it have a lasting consequence (ie. to not avail of said parking facilities until all fees have been paid?)

If a crime is being committed against me I will use my powers to stop it, even though it benefits me.

Corruptable

I actually salute this Garda for standing up to repeated interference with his personal property by a clamping company.

However, I do agree that he may be approaching it from the wrong angle (using his status as a Garda). Rather it should be confronted from the position that these private clamping companies have no legal right to clamp your vehicle, on the basis of the 2007 judgment from Waterford District Court, and Dermot Sheehan BL's article on the area, and you should be entitled to remove the clamp and claim for damages if damage results from the companies actions.

There needs to be an end to the current incarnation of private clamping non-sense in this country.

jd

ForegoneReality wrote: »

I don't for a second believe that any person should use their official powers (be they Gardaí, Customs, Judges, Doctors etc) in a capacity to personally benefit themselves. Given that this person is clearly acting in a capacity unbecoming of a member of AGS I would definitely have words with the local Superintendent.

I'd go down this road too.
edited to clarify - Yes you'd need to talk to the Garda's super

Eru

ForegoneReality wrote: »

I would definitely have words with the local Superintendent.

Why? We all know that complaints are made to GSOC and that in all probability the local Super is not the Garda's super. Therefore he has absolutely no business dealing with such a complaint.

Thats like going to the manager in my local Spar in Dublin to complain about a security guard in a Cork shop

godtabh wrote: »

he has a judgement against him for the outstanding management fees he owes.

I would be interested to know more about this as I did not believe any new amendments or decisions had been made since the Private Residential Tenancies Board -v- Judge Linane case in 2010 (http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/597645521f07ac9a80256ef30048ca52/36b3ebdf059a5be1802578380040fdb5?OpenDocument)

Can you point out the judgement please?

jd

Eru wrote: »

I would be interested to know more about this as I did not believe any new amendments or decisions had been made since the Private Residential Tenancies Board -v- Judge Linane case in 2010 (http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/597645521f07ac9a80256ef30048ca52/36b3ebdf059a5be1802578380040fdb5?OpenDocument)

Can you point out the judgement please?

On that point
http://www.byrnewallace.com/Media/Publications/Publications_List/Recovery_of_service_charges_and_the_application_of_the_Residential_Tenancies_Act_2004_to_residential_sale_leases/

The legislature however reacted quickly and introduced S.100 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 which inserts a new S.3(3) into the Act. Under the new provision, the Act no longer applies to leases for a term greater than 35 years. S.100 came into force three months after the Circuit Court decision and was in force at the time of the Judicial Review hearing. Thus the potential absurdities discussed above did not materialise.

Indeed the successful employment of more traditional Court proceedings has been seen in a recent service charge dispute involving the K Club. Bessilton Holdings Limited and Karsavina Management Limited, the operating companies of the K Club, were owed sums in respect of unpaid service charges from two of their holiday home owners for the period 2006-2009. The operating companies sued in the Circuit Court and successfully obtained a decree for €17,730.

Parties seeking to recover sums due in respect of service charges levied in pursuance of sale leases should now be advised that according to the law as it stands, they are fully entitled to utilise the Courts in order to resolve such disputes.

0O7

My answer (only because i dislike / disapprove of private clampers....

If the man (not because he is a garda) (or any other man / women of any profession) payed their money and now owns a property within this complex, they should be entitled to park THEIR OWN vehicle outside without a company tryin to make money annoying him / her.... and clamping his/ her car...

All the occupants should object to this fee... no matter what profession the person is i salute for standing up to this ****

jd

0O7 wrote: »

My answer (only because i dislike / disapprove of private clampers....

If the man (not because he is a garda) (or any other man / women of any profession) payed their money and now owns a property within this complex, they should be entitled to park THEIR OWN vehicle outside without a company tryin to make money annoying him / her.... and clamping his/ her car...

All the occupants should object to this fee... no matter what profession the person is i salute for standing up to this ****

The garda mentioned in the original post is a freeloader.

Said garda owes approx €8k in fees ie has never paid or made any effort to pay since he bought the apartment. He has been taken to court and has a judgement against him.

0O7

jd wrote: »

This guy is a freeloader.

what?

jd

0O7 wrote: »

what?

Not you, sorry, the guy who won't pay his service charges .

Eru

Thanks for the article, its been a while since I went looking into the mess that is rental housing.

In regards comments like this, you dont name the guy but anyone that lives with you will know who your talking about so Im going to ask, can you show evidence of this from a court? There should be a case on the website, even just naming the management company would allow us to check the statement.

jd wrote: »

The garda mentioned in the original post is a freeloader.

SNAKEDOC

audidiesel wrote: »

without knowing the wexact circumastances i wont comment, but technically gardai are never really off duty.

if a crime is witnessed off duty then the member is expected to deal with it. so from that point of view an off duty member is not the same as anyone else.

so what if he was off duty gardai are citizens of the state too and as such must adhere to the law. if his private car is clamped tough diddy. pay the release like everyone else. if a crime is committed what is the garda going to do hop into his car and take chase i don't think so. gardai do not use their own cars for official business thats crap. if i were the op i'd make a complaint to the super of the gardas district and the ombudsman too.

Turner

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

so what if he was off duty gardai are citizens of the state too and as such must adhere to the law. if his private car is clamped tough diddy. pay the release like everyone else. if a crime is committed what is the garda going to do hop into his car and take chase i don't think so. gardai do not use their own cars for official business thats crap. if i were the op i'd make a complaint to the super of the gardas district and the ombudsman too.

Gardai do use their own vehicles in the course of their duty... Thats why there is a milage allowance if they do.

The same as all civil servants.

If you have a problem with this contact the relevant Minister.

Turner

OP I think your question has been answered.

Gardai do use their vehicles in the course of their duty. See also the Garda parking thread.

You are entitled to make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman, Garda Commissioner and Minister for Justice though if you feel strongly about any incident involving an off duty or on duty Garda.

Thanks.