Violation of Human Rights? - Not being able to leave the Catholic Church

UglyBolloxFace

Like a lot of people in our little country, I was baptised as a child. And for the communion and confirmation - I only did this for the money.

Looking back on it, they are the three biggest mistakes of my life. I no longer want to be a part of this disgusting organisation, and as such I want to leave.

Countmeout.ie, a website dedicated to helping people leave the church, was a great thing for people like me. But no, I am unable to leave because the church changed the 'Canon Law' which governs this stuff (because people were leaving in their droves), and this led to the countmeout website becoming defunct, in a sense. So technically, in their eyes, I am a catholic forever.

Freedom of Religion is a a fundamental human right. But how am I supposed to exercise this right if I am being forced to remain a member of the catholic church against my will? What right do the church have to do this to me and countless others?

Would I have a case in the EU Court? - i.e. the catholic church forcing me to remain a member of their sect and therefore infringing on my human right of freedom of religion? If so, how would I go about it?

I know I probably won't get the serious answers here in AH, but I think there will be some people out there in the same position as me, and I'd like to hear from them suggestions etc.

Sindri

Why care what they think if you reject their authority in the first place?

I don't need out, they can't make me do anything nor do they have any control over my life.

Senna

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Looking back on it, they are the three biggest mistakes of my life.

A. Probably your families choice rather than yours, i dont think you actually choose to be baptised.
B. If they are your biggest mistakes in life, you have very little problems.

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

So technically, in their eyes, I am a catholic forever.

In their eyes only, you can be whatever faith/non faith you want to be. Who cares if they still consider you a catholic.

jaffacakesyum

Sindri wrote: »

Why care what they think if you reject their authority in the first place?

So if, for example, you were listed as a member of the Nazi Party, you wouldn't care because you reject their authority anyway, and don't follow their beliefs?

Bull****. People should have the freedom to leave any crazy cults including the Catholic Church

galwayrush

Why worry about it?

Liam Byrne

The word for an organisation which prevents you from leaving of your own free will is "cult"

The catholic church may have once just been a despicable organisation, but once it changed that rule it became a cult.

That said, I don't know anyone who takes canon law seriously - it's a farce for years what with arbitrary changes to purgatory and intercessions.

Think of it as a psycho ex who still goes around saying that you're their boyfriend/girlfriend......they can lie all they want because they're only fooling themselves and making themselves look like the idiots that they are.

Stinicker

I also would like to leave the Catholic church and like many others openly went along with the whole communion and confirmation malarky for to get the money invariably given to you by stupid relatives.

The Catholic Church should be burnt out of society and everyone of their priests and bishops with them. The sad thing about the British occupation of Ireland was they never defeated the Church and I say this as a staunch Irish Republican. However the Catholic church has done harm to Irish society than any Protestant religious organisation ever did.

My name is URL

My parents are war criminals

Sindri

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

So if, for example, you were listed as a member of the Nazi Party, you wouldn't care because you reject their authority anyway, and don't follow their beliefs?

Bull****. People should have the freedom to leave any crazy cults including the Catholic Church

So if for example you plain didn't give a **** what number of ****s would you give?

0+****s=?

Deus Ex Machina

Who gives a sweaty hairy sh1t?

UglyBolloxFace

Domo230 wrote: »

I am technically listed as a member of the catholic church.

I would also like out.

Have a look at countmeout.ie
As I mentioned, it is impossible to leave because they changed their little skyfairy laws.

Sindri wrote: »

Why care what they think if you reject their authority in the first place?

I don't need out, they can't make me do anything nor do they have any control over my life.

I see the point you are trying to make, but why should they have me listed as a catholic if I no longer wish to be a part of their cult?

Senna wrote: »

In their eyes only, you can be whatever faith/non faith you want to be. Who cares if they still consider you a catholic.

If I wanted to become, for example, a Muslim, do you think this would be possible if I'm still, forever, officially part of the catholic church? No, it wouldn't be possible.

It's disgusting that I am being forced to be part of a sect.

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

So if, for example, you were listed as a member of the Nazi Party, you wouldn't care because you reject their authority anyway, and don't follow their beliefs?

Bull****. People should have the freedom to leave any crazy cults including the Catholic Church

+1

galwayrush wrote: »

Why worry about it?

Why take the relaxed approach?

And keep in mind there is a financial impact to this. In Germany, there is a church tax. If you are, for example, catholic, you have to pay 9% of your income tax. Why should these bastards get this money?

I won't be leaving it at this - tomorrow I'll be going to the local church in my area to speak with the priest there. He better give me a satisfactory solution.

SeaFields

Genuine question...

If you do not participate in any of their traditions, events, go to mass, etc. etc. why don't you consider that enough?

Do you want it in writing from them that you are out?

Edit...i see you have answered above in response to someone else.

Jay D

Fúcking hell don't practice and stop moaning. Problem solved really.

noxqs

Break into church, put this on the speaker system just as the sermon starts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PakoE1eBps

Excommunication, win?

Superbus

I got 99 problems but the Church ain't one.

krudler

SeaFields wrote: »

Genuine question...

If you do not participate in any of their traditions, events, go to mass, etc. etc. why don't you consider that enough?

Do you want it in writing from them that you are out?

well put it this way, if you were a member of say, a sports club, that was responsible for as much suffering, hate, paedophilia, misogyny, sexism, corruption and nasty sh1t as the RCC is, would you want to be crossed off their membership list? or happy out they still continue to count you as a card carrying member and wont let you leave?

its simple, people should be allowed leave, but the church, pack of sneaky cunts that they are, changed their made up rules to stop people doing this.

o1s1n

Excommunication is still available isn't it?

Defile the eucharist in some way and mail a video of it to your local priest/bishop/witch doctor.

Liam Byrne

SeaFields wrote: »

Genuine question...

If you do not participate in any of their traditions, events, go to mass, etc. etc. why don't you consider that enough?

Do you want it in writing from them that you are out?

Edit...i see you have answered above in response to someone else.

Do they get grants or funding based on the number of "members" ? If so, I'd want it officially acknowledged.

In fact, I would suspect that this is the only reason why they would try to cement you in.

Hopefully the grants would be based on the census and not the fictional membership lists.

galwayrush

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I won't be leaving it at this - tomorrow I'll be going to the local church in my area to speak with the priest there. He better give me a satisfactory solution.

Freewill, you do have it...;)

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill.

UglyBolloxFace

SeaFields wrote: »

Genuine question...

If you do not participate in any of their traditions, events, go to mass, etc. etc. why don't you consider that enough?

Do you want it in writing from them that you are out?

Edit...i see you have answered above in response to someone else.

Yes I want out. I don't want to be on their books. They have done nothing for me, and have caused nothing but disgusting hardship to this country, so why should I prop up their membership numbers.

afrodub

I really see this a non-issue you don`t go to Mass or attend Church fullstop, so you simply disassociate/ divorce yourself from the RC faith, and that`s the end surely isn`t it.

My name is URL

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Why should these bastards get this money?

Why should any bastard get your money? It's a political issue more than a faith-based one.

Presumably, you didn't identify yourself as a Catholic in the census, and I'm sure that you don't financially support the church in any way?

Those are the only things that matter, ultimately.

All that officially leaving the church affirms is that you took it (your name being on some meaningless dusty old book in Rome) seriously enough in the first place, and that gives them even more imaginary clout.

UglyBolloxFace

Superbus wrote: »

I got 99 problems but the Church ain't one.

Em..100 problems really, considering the problem of the church is the reason I opened this thread.

But then again, "I got 100 problems..." doesn't have the same ring:rolleyes::pac:

Liam Byrne

o1s1n wrote: »

Excommunication is still available isn't it?

Defile the eucharist in some way and mail a video of it to your local priest/bishop/witch doctor.

Does it have to be the eucharist ? That 10ft x 8ft photo with Bishop Brennan taking it up the arse (interesting role reversal*) won't suffice ?

*Actually, in all seriousness for a second, given the violations of human rights that they condoned and facilitated I reckon having me on a fictional membership list isn't exactly at the top of their violations of human rights, do you ?

galwayrush

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Yes I want out. I don't want to be on their books. They have done nothing for me, and have caused nothing but disgusting hardship to this country, so why should I prop up their membership numbers.

We all prop up the Mormon membership list as well.( They believe that every name/ person they find/ register is a soul saved, or something like that)
Perhaps you should talk to them as well....

UglyBolloxFace

afrodub wrote: »

I really see this a non-issue you don`t go to Mass or attend Church fullstop, so you simply disassociate/ divorce yourself from the RC faith, and that`s the end surely isn`t it.

You don't seem to understand.

Let me put it this way - if you were a member of a club that has engaged in wide-spread paedophilia and abuse and that club would not let you leave, would you not be pissed off?

In my opinion, by staying a member of this church, it appears that I, and other people who are members, support paedophilia and abuse. It's as simple as that. This has to stop - I want out.

dxhound2005

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Like a lot of people in our little country, I was baptised as a child. And for the communion and confirmation - I only did this for the money.

Looking back on it, they are the three biggest mistakes of my life. I no longer want to be a part of this disgusting organisation, and as such I want to leave.

Countmeout.ie, a website dedicated to helping people leave the church, was a great thing for people like me. But no, I am unable to leave because the church changed the 'Canon Law' which governs this stuff (because people were leaving in their droves), and this led to the countmeout website becoming defunct, in a sense. So technically, in their eyes, I am a catholic forever.

Freedom of Religion is a a fundamental human right. But how am I supposed to exercise this right if I am being forced to remain a member of the catholic church against my will? What right do the church have to do this to me and countless others?

Would I have a case in the EU Court? - i.e. the catholic church forcing me to remain a member of their sect and therefore infringing on my human right of freedom of religion? If so, how would I go about it?

I know I probably won't get the serious answers here in AH, but I think there will be some people out there in the same position as me, and I'd like to hear from them suggestions etc.

Just count your blessings you weren't born a Muslim. They would give you real trouble if you tried to leave.

Notorious97

Sorry if this is a stupid suggestion, but could you not convert to a religion that allows you to leave? problem solved?

jam_mac_jam

I really don't get this. I was baptised and would have tried to get out before they changed the rule. However I don't care what they think so I don't care if I am a member or not. This is not a club, there is no membership card if you know it's a load of nonsence then who cares?

krudler

Notorious97 wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid suggestion, but could you not convert to a religion that allows you to leave? problem solved?

you shouldnt have to do anything other than say you want out, you could, then they realised that people will start leaving in droves and they changed the rules so you cant anymore, so fcuk them, why should they be allowed to change it? oh, because they're a pack of cnuts, thats why.

UglyBolloxFace

Notorious97 wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid suggestion, but could you not convert to a religion that allows you to leave? problem solved?

I don't want to be a part of any fairytale 'religion' - I want to get away from them all.

But even if I wanted to do what you suggested, it would be impossible seeing as the catholic cunts won't let me leave.

Anyway, can anyone offer any input into the actual question I've asked - is this a violation of the human right of freedom of religion?

Overheal

Notorious97 wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid suggestion, but could you not convert to a religion that allows you to leave? problem solved?

It's a little more than that. The Holy See is an official observer of the United Nations which upholds the Declaration of Human Rights, which says,

• Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Which if you ask me means if the Holy See wishes to maintain it's stature in the world, it should stop violating Article 18.

The Catholic Church is also violating Article 20:

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Temptamperu

Go to your priest tell him your a pariah and you can get ex-communicated for it if you say your spreading decent.

UglyBolloxFace

Overheal wrote: »

It's a little more than that. The Holy See is an official observer of the United Nations which upholds the Declaration of Human Rights, which says,

• Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Which if you ask me means if the Holy See wishes to maintain it's stature in the world, it should stop violating Article 18.

Thanks for this.

So, I think this does indeed show that they are violating my right of freedom of religion. Any suggestion on what I should do about this?

jam_mac_jam

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I don't want to be a part of any fairytale 'religion' - I want to get away from them all.

But even if I wanted to do what you suggested, it would be impossible seeing as the catholic cunts won't let me leave.

Anyway, can anyone offer any input into the actual question I've asked - is this a violation of the human right of freedom of religion?

You could take them to court, that would be interesting.

krudler

If people start doing it then good, I might look into this myself, how exactly does one take a court case against an organisation?

afrodub

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

You don't seem to understand.

Let me put it this way - if you were a member of a club that has engaged in wide-spread paedophilia and abuse and that club would not let you leave, would you not be pissed off?

In my opinion, by staying a member of this church, it appears that I, and other people who are members, support paedophilia and abuse. It's as simple as that. This has to stop - I want out.

Well I can symphathise that you clearly are someone of principle, outraged by well documented abuse by elements within that Church/ Religion.In practice though you are certainly not practising and therefore no longer a functioning member merely an anonymous irrelevant statistic,still noted albeit in some file alone as a RC.

Notorious97

krudler wrote: »

you shouldnt have to do anything other than say you want out, you could, then they realised that people will start leaving in droves and they changed the rules so you cant anymore, so fcuk them, why should they be allowed to change it? oh, because they're a pack of cnuts, thats why.

lol I get that, but since the rules are changed and he really wants out, is this not a possibility? I believe in by any means necesary, If I felt how the OP does and this is a possible solution, id go for it....by the way im not even sure this is a viable option!

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I don't want to be a part of any fairytale 'religion' - I want to get away from them all.

But even if I wanted to do what you suggested, it would be impossible seeing as the catholic cunts won't let me leave.

Anyway, can anyone offer any input into the actual question I've asked - is this a violation of the human right of freedom of religion?

I get that you dont wish to subscribe to the idea of organised religion or any religion in general, but if this was a way out why not go for it?

Regarding your question, the RCC violates childrens rights every day, they get away with it, i highly doubt they are going to give a fu*k if you feel your rights are violated.

Overheal wrote: »

It's a little more than that. The Holy See is an official observer of the United Nations which upholds the Declaration of Human Rights, which says,

• Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Which if you ask me means if the Holy See wishes to maintain it's stature in the world, it should stop violating Article 18.

The Catholic Church is also violating Article 20:

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Cheers I didnt know any of this really, learn something new everyday!

riffmongous

But they havent stopped you from changing your religion have they? They've just kept you on their own list which isn't worth anything, surely the census is all that matters?

HavingCrack

riffmongous wrote: »

But they havent stopped you from changing your religion have they? They've just kept you on their own list which isn't worth anything, surely the census is all that matters?

The census is what counts-nothing else. The RCC can insist they still have x numbers of members according to their records but for official government pruposes it is census returns that matter.

Del2005

I changed my religion for the census. The woman collecting it had a good laugh.

The religion I put down has more relevance to me than something I was forced into as a child, don't forget that legally children can't enter into a contract.

May the Force be with you

carfiosaoorl

It sickens me that I cant leave. I am also sick of people saying "sure it doesnt matter just consider yourself out" It doesnt work like that. I want my name removed from their registry. I dont want my name to be on any of their lists. Not many things make me angry, Im a very placid person but this ****ing sickens me. I didn't choose to join this church but I choose to leave, yet I cant.

partyatmygaff

It's no different to Facebook or even our very own boards.ie

You can never delete your account and completely disassociate yourself. All you can do is ask the administration to close or deactivate your account and just distance yourself from the organisation in question. If it was revealed that Facebook revenue was being used to prop up terrorist groups or something of that nature and you wanted to completely disassociate yourself from Facebook you simply wouldn't be able to.

In any case, if someone really wanted to leave the Catholic church I think conversion to another religion denomination/religion is sufficient to no longer be considered a member.

Overheal

Notorious97 wrote: »

Cheers I didnt know any of this really, learn something new everyday!

lol no problemo. Educate thyself, read the Declaration of Human Rights. It's easy enough to digest.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

afrodub

May the Force be with you[/QUOTE]

and also with you

starbelgrade

One big issue with the Catholic Church is that they still run the majority of schools in Ireland, despite being funded by the state. One of the arguments they use for maintaining this state of play is that the overwhelming majority of Irish citizens are Catholic. Under the Equal Status Act, they have the right to refuse enrolment of children who are not baptised, which kind of makes a mockery of the tern "equal status" in my book.

Now, the major problem with this is that while in some areas, you may have a choice as to where you send your kids to school, a lot of people don't. They aren't forced to baptise their children, but in many cases they do so just to ensure they are guaranteed a place in the local school.

By essentially forcing many parents to send their children to Catholic Schools, they are forced to allow the Church to teach them their doctrine.

It is a way for them to attempt to perpetuate their authority in the country furthered again by the change in canon law.

UglyBolloxFace

krudler wrote: »

If people start doing it then good, I might look into this myself, how exactly does one take a court case against an organisation?

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

It sickens me that I cant leave. I am also sick of people saying "sure it doesnt matter just consider yourself out" It doesnt work like that. I want my name removed from their registry. I dont want my name to be on any of their lists. Not many things make me angry, Im a very placid person but this ****ing sickens me. I didn't choose to join this church but I choose to leave, yet I cant.

Lads this is something I'm very passionate about, and as such I propose the following and ask would you join me?

Let's draft a letter, all three of us together, outlining our disgust with the church and our dismay that we cannot leave, and of course the fact that the church is violating our Human Rights, specifically Articles 18 and 20.

We would draft the letter and sign it, and then post it to the European Court of Human Rights.

For anyone else reading this post, if you want out aswell and would be willing to attempt to fight the church in the EU Court, let me know here.

I've already fired off an email to the UN asking why they're allowing the Vatican to violate Articles 18 and 20 (I know an email isn't the best option, but it's okay for now).

UglyBolloxFace

partyatmygaff wrote: »

It's no different to Facebook or even our very own boards.ie

You can never delete your account and completely disassociate yourself. All you can do is ask the administration to close or deactivate your account and just distance yourself from the organisation in question. If it was revealed that Facebook revenue was being used to prop up terrorist groups or something of that nature and you wanted to completely disassociate yourself from Facebook you simply wouldn't be able to.

In any case, if someone really wanted to leave the Catholic church I think conversion to another religion denomination/religion is sufficient to no longer be considered a member.

As of recently, you can delete your Boards account.

And the last time I checked, Facebook and Boards weren't engaged in mass paedophilia which was covered up by those at the top.

XenaLady

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I is this a violation of the human right of freedom of religion?

Yes it is.

starbelgrade

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

And the last time I checked, Facebook and Boards weren't engaged in mass paedophilia which was covered up by those at the top.

One of the mods touched my mickey & when I reported it in Feedback, the thread was deleted.

UglyBolloxFace

starbelgrade wrote: »

One of the mods touched my mickey & when I reported it in Feedback, the thread was deleted.

Well you shouldn't have been flashing him.