Accident in Phoenix Park this morning

Rew

Accident happend about 50-100 meters in front of me in the park this morning. Cyclist hit a pedestrian walking in the cycle lane. Sun was low and straight on and he didnt see her. Have to say I didnt see it happen as I was blinded as well but stopped when I came up to it.

Lots of blood and 2 very shaken up people. Couple of other people who saw it happen stopped as well. I rang the ambulance, work and family for the cyclist someone else did the same of pedestrian. Ambulance and a fire engine turned up and carted them off. Nasty cuts to both heads, cyclist was wearing a helmet but he got cut just below the eyebrow. OPW picked up his bike and stored it for him.

So moral is watch your self's out there...

Caroline_ie

I train a lot in the park and with the road works at the moment I end up on the cycle lane a bit. Usually at night time, joggers hear me or see their growing shadow ahead of them from my lights and move to one side of the path to it's safe to overtake them at speed. We are both training I have no problem with these guys.

I am surprised accident don't happen more often during the day with walkers though. They are not as used to it and react differently from the joggers.

I hope both are well.

mtdelany

I have to say, although i have sympathy for the person above, I do hate pedestrians who walk on cycle lanes,

i commute along the North Quays from the East link bridge, and more often than not, I have to cycle on the "footpath" because of the amount of walkers on the cycle lane. Especially outside citibank.

it is a lesson for town planners that people will always walk the shortest distance from A-B, whereas cyclists dont mid traveling the extra 5 meters

Rew

mtdelany wrote: »

I have to say, although i have sympathy for the person above, I do hate pedestrians who walk on cycle lanes,

i commute along the North Quays from the East link bridge, and more often than not, I have to cycle on the "footpath" because of the amount of walkers on the cycle lane. Especially outside citibank.

it is a lesson for town planners that people will always walk the shortest distance from A-B, whereas cyclists dont mid traveling the extra 5 meters

Yeah I think pedestrians in the park take the piss but at the same time it is very badly laid out for both pedestrians and cyclists

kumate_champ07

moral is dont walk in the cycle lane &helmets dont protect you forehead from knocks?

Scamaill

Run there regularly. It can be dangerous...

kumate_champ07

during the Summer I decided to cycle on the footpath in the park because the cycle path was full of dog walkers, power walkers and joggers.
it seemed safer to use the footpath, I'd slow down to 10km/h coming behind any walkers which there wasnt many of, some aul lad muttered something at me about' I should use the cycle lane' when I went by, was with a friend so just went on my way because I didnt want any grief.

Rew

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

moral is dont walk in the cycle lane &helmets dont protect you forehead from knocks?

it was his eye not forehead. pedestrian it was her forehead.

Zulu

mtdelany wrote: »

...I do hate pedestrians who walk on cycle lanes

Rew wrote: »

Yeah I think pedestrians in the park take the piss ...

As a daily walker in the Phoenix park one thing should be pointed out. When it rains the foot path floods completly under inches of water.
In the event of rain, pedestrains are unable to use the footpath and have only the road or the cycle path to walk on.

That said, the path isn't flooded today.

victorcarrera

I find this hard to believe. But Im guessing the pedestrian was walking in the same direction and the cyclist had removed the peak from their helmet.
A peaked helmet or hat is very useful when the sun is low or if you have to commute in the dark.

ROK ON

Zulu wrote: »

As a daily walker in the Phoenix park one thing should be pointed out. When it rains the foot path floods completly under inches of water.
In the event of rain, pedestrains are unable to use the footpath and have only the road or the cycle path to walk on.

That said, the path isn't flooded today.

It should also be said that the areas where the path doesnt flood (path up to Ashtown Gate), that many walkers will prefer to use the more ample space and better surfaced cycle lane.

IMHO, it just isnt worth cycling on the cycle lanes in the park, unless it is very early morning. Way too much hassle.

Rew

victorcarrera wrote: »

I find this hard to believe. But Im guessing the pedestrian was walking in the same direction and the cyclist had removed the peak from their helmet.
A peaked helmet or hat is very useful when the sun is low or if you have to commute in the dark.

No, he had a peak and sunglasses (crash took the lenses out of them!). Couldn't tell you her direction of travel, he was going towards town.

The sun was very low and directly in your eyes looking down towards town. Had been overcast upuntill a few mins earlier as well.

Rew

Zulu wrote: »

As a daily walker in the Phoenix park one thing should be pointed out. When it rains the foot path floods completly under inches of water.
In the event of rain, pedestrains are unable to use the footpath and have only the road or the cycle path to walk on.

That said, the path isn't flooded today.

Haven't noticed the flooding my self have to say. I think many walkers/joggers just don't care. I think many don't even notice it is a cycle lane. Others don't want to climb over the low fence and/or walk across the grass.

It's poorly designed, poorly regulated and poorly maintained.

I used to use the main avenue before and get abused by drivers (who aren't even being held up).

Tenzor07

Lets hope the pedestrian and cyclist are ok apart from a few scuffs and bruises....

The guy on the bike must have been going a far whack and the pedestrian must have stepped out fairly quickly otherwise this should have been avoidable..

monkeypants

Rew wrote: »

I think many don't even notice it is a cycle lane. Others don't want to climb over the low fence and/or walk across the grass.

It's poorly designed, poorly regulated and poorly maintained.

+1

Friend and I were walking through the park last year as we were walking the DCM route for a laugh. I'm not at all familiar with the park, so I can't tell you exactly where we were, just on the main avenue somewhere. Happily walking along the cycle lane until two mildly pissed-off cyclists informed us that it was a cycle lane. We both moved then. Honestly had no idea. The path beside the road is normally the footpath, didn't occur to me that the actual footpath was several yards to my left and the other side of a fence.

miketv

I was cycling in the phoenix park on Monday night towards town. I had a near miss with a pedesterian, last second I spotted him and did a sudden swerve onto the grass to avoid him. What annoyed me was he was walking towards me and should have been able to see me from a distance (bright flashing light), and he did not budge. I looked back and he continued to walk on the cycle path.
To be fair, most people step aside and at least joggers usually have reflective clothing so easier to spot, he was very hard to see.
I think I'll leave my front light on full beam from now on going through there.

Rew

I had a motorbike pass me in the cyclelane in the park twice before christmas, wasn't happy to use the diversions it seems... His reg plate was conveniently covered in mud.

BostonB

I've had a few near misses at night in the phoenix park, with ninja walkers and joggers. One of the reasons I upgraded all might lights.

During the day less so but pedestrians are a little unpredictable.

The paths are poorly laid out and sign posted. People are naturally led to the cycle path if they park beside it. On a very windy day I've often thought the walking path is more sheltered and would be easier on the bike.

Tomred13

so sorry to hear about this crash and i hope both parties make a speedy recovery. as a cyclist who uses the park alot both onroad and off road i am amazed that this type of accident doesnt occur on a weekly basis. last summer i was talking to two female work colleagues about exercising in the park and they said that they would never run on the walkers path,, i asked them was that because they didnt feel safe there and they said ...No.. they only jogged on the cyclepath in the park because that way they got noticed by passing traffic and young men.. they basically only wanted to show them selves off.. i was disgusted

GTDolanator

mtdelany wrote: »

I have to say, although i have sympathy for the person above, I do hate pedestrians who walk on cycle lanes,

i commute along the North Quays from the East link bridge, and more often than not, I have to cycle on the "footpath" because of the amount of walkers on the cycle lane. Especially outside citibank.

it is a lesson for town planners that people will always walk the shortest distance from A-B, whereas cyclists dont mid traveling the extra 5 meters

why dont you cycle on the road?the surface on the majority of the north quays is fantastic

Slydice

miketv wrote: »

I had a near miss with a pedesterian, last second I spotted him and did a sudden swerve onto the grass to avoid him.

Same happened to me during the week.

It's pretty dark and I'd say it's hard for pedestrians to see the bicycle logos on the ground. They've also no light on the footpath areas which are even darker.

I'd say some extra lighting and some better signage would help.

BostonB

Tomred13 wrote: »

so sorry to hear about this crash and i hope both parties make a speedy recovery. as a cyclist who uses the park alot both onroad and off road i am amazed that this type of accident doesnt occur on a weekly basis. last summer i was talking to two female work colleagues about exercising in the park and they said that they would never run on the walkers path,, i asked them was that because they didnt feel safe there and they said ...No.. they only jogged on the cyclepath in the park because that way they got noticed by passing traffic and young men.. they basically only wanted to show them selves off.. i was disgusted

Sorry you're gonna need post photos for that one...

mtdelany

GTDolanator wrote: »

why dont you cycle on the road?the surface on the majority of the north quays is fantastic

Because there is a cycle path :eek:

Also, the new paving is only 6mths old, and I have being cycling in about 6 yrs

BostonB

I think many ignore the cycle path because often the road is more efficient, and puts you in a better (safer/easier) position for junctions. Oh and your not blocked by pedestrians.

Chartsengrafs

I genuinely think the problem could be quickly solved by swapping the two. (Move the bike lane in and the footpad out).

Walkers prefer the bike lanes in the Phoenix Park because:
1. They are more out in the open / less under trees. Get more sun in good weather.
2. More importantly, if you get out of your car the nearest long strip of tarmac that isn't the road is the cycle lane. It feels natural for them to walk on it. Crossing grass etc to get to the other path is hard to enforce. Ridiculous, but I think it's true.

On the other hand if cyclists had a good surface on the inner path with no peds would they mind? I know I wouldn't! Perhaps I'm overlooking something here.. but I can't think of anything.

Bunnyhopper

Basster wrote: »

I genuinely think the problem could be quickly solved by swapping the two. (Move the bike lane in and the footpad out).

This is exactly how it used to be. Years ago when the OPW first put cycle paths alongside the main road of the Park it was the ones between the trees they used, i.e., the ones that are now the footpads. For some reason they swapped the two paths. I think you're right and that they made a mistake when they swapped them.

The other paths - the ones between the trees - were actually much better as cycle paths. They're further away from the junctions with the main road, so turning vehicles are less of a worry. They also have smoother transitions where they cross the side roads - you never had those dips and kerbstones to negotiate.

Zulu

Rew wrote: »

Haven't noticed the flooding my self have to say.

From the tea rooms at the zoo up as far as the Aras floods badly.

ThisRegard

Basster wrote: »

I genuinely think the problem could be quickly solved by swapping the two. (Move the bike lane in and the footpad out).

Wouldn't work, particularly when it comes to dogs. People won't want to walk with dogs alongside the road, and dogs, as great as they are, aren't intelligent enough to realise that they shouldn't run back and forth from the footpath across the cycle lane into the fun trees and high grass.

BostonB

If you want to go fast use the road. If you happy taking it easy, use the cycle path. A bell works wonders most of the time. A night get a decent light. Park is very dark.

Lumen

ThisRegard wrote: »

Wouldn't work, particularly when it comes to dogs. People won't want to walk with dogs alongside the road, and dogs, as great as they are, aren't intelligent enough to realise that they shouldn't run back and forth from the footpath across the cycle lane into the fun trees and high grass.

Fenton! Fenton! Jesus Christ, Fenton!

Chartsengrafs

ThisRegard wrote: »

Wouldn't work, particularly when it comes to dogs. People won't want to walk with dogs alongside the road, and dogs, as great as they are, aren't intelligent enough to realise that they shouldn't run back and forth from the footpath across the cycle lane into the fun trees and high grass.

People walk dogs beside the road absolutely everywhere else. All other footpaths are beside the road. And your post assumes dogs aren't on leads I'm guessing(?), which is a whole other issue.

Bambaata

I use the road when cycling there as its impossible to get any training done using that cycle lane. I've tried but am constantly being impeded by walkers. ~When forced to use it (recent road works etc) ill give the walkers a shout from afar and mutter that its a cycle lane when passing but its a lost cause, i've never seen any of them move across. What really bugs me are the parents walking their young children in buggies on it! Do they not care for their children?!? Reminds me of a woman yesterday who had the front wheels of a buggy out on the road while waiting at traffic lights!

Bambaata

Basster wrote: »

People walk dogs beside the road absolutely everywhere else. All other footpaths are beside the road. And your post assumes dogs aren't on leads I'm guessing(?), which is a whole other issue.

I got cleaned out of it by a dog lead before so whenever i see a dog with its owner i assume the worst!

Rew

BostonB wrote: »

If you want to go fast use the road. If you happy taking it easy, use the cycle path. A bell works wonders most of the time. A night get a decent light. Park is very dark.

I get nothing but abuse when I use the road in there

ThisRegard

Basster wrote: »

People walk dogs beside the road absolutely everywhere else. All other footpaths are beside the road. And your post assumes dogs aren't on leads I'm guessing(?), which is a whole other issue.

Everywhere else you don't have a mass of trees, shrubs and ditches on one side for dogs, and kids, to go play in.

And don't start with the dogs on leads nonsense, there's no requirement that they need to be.


Some people almost look at the cycle lanes in the park as somewhere to go time trialling, a bit of common sense is required from all parties. There's a grand set of roads in the park for people to go racing around in. The only time I use the cycle lane along the avenue is first thing in the morning when the park is empty as someone has already said, or when I'm not in a hurry anywhere. Otherwise when out for a training spin there's plenty of road for me to use.

People saying the get abuse must be unlucky to meet dicks because nobody has ever even made a rude gesture to me when using them, and I'm not a ditch hugger. Maybe it's because I'm just so awesome that the traffic just can't keep up with me in order to give out.

Chartsengrafs

Yeah that must be it.

ThisRegard

No must about it, it is it.

yosser hughes

Rew wrote: »

Accident happend about 50-100 meters in front of me in the park this morning. Cyclist hit a pedestrian walking in the cycle lane. Sun was low and straight on and he didnt see her. Have to say I didnt see it happen as I was blinded as well but stopped when I came up to it.

Lots of blood and 2 very shaken up people. Couple of other people who saw it happen stopped as well. I rang the ambulance, work and family for the cyclist someone else did the same of pedestrian. Ambulance and a fire engine turned up and carted them off. Nasty cuts to both heads, cyclist was wearing a helmet but he got cut just below the eyebrow. OPW picked up his bike and stored it for him.

So moral is watch your self's out there...

Why did the fire engine turn up? Someone is going to get a nasty surprise when the bill comes in for a full fire crew:eek:

ThisRegard

Dublin Fire brigade are all paramedics so if there wasn't an ambulance available you'll get a fire brigade out to you. The fire truck may have been closer or the ambulance just wasn't available at the time but became so as the engine was on its way.

Zulu

Fire services are always sent out. Just in case.

yosser hughes

Zulu wrote: »

Fire services are always sent out. Just in case.

Really? I didn't know that. Even in the case of a cyclist and pedestrian?
I can understand it in the case of a car accident in case they need to cut someone out of a car, but in this case it seems bizarre.
If I fell and hit my head on the street would the fire brigade attend?

monument

I've gotten little abuse from out of cars when cycling but the most memorable is in the park.

I was on the westbound on-road sections of cycle lane after the first roundabout, this was a while after they were first put in, and was cycling up to the off-road cycle paths -- which I was intending to go onto. All of a sudden a group of young fools in a car drove by and one of them shouted out something like "use the ****ing cycle lane".

I was on the cycle lane.

A mixture annoyance of their stupidity and the fright of somebody shouting loudly out of a car window just beside you.

Rew

yosser hughes wrote: »

Why did the fire engine turn up? Someone is going to get a nasty surprise when the bill comes in for a full fire crew:eek:

No idea I was as surprised as you. Sound lads one of them was into MTB and started chattin to me about my bike

There was a bad accident on the quays this morning as well. South side at the bottom of the hill at Christchurch. 2 fire brigade units, garda motorbike, garda patrol car fighting through the traffic toward it and the sirens of an ambulance somewhere near by... Couldn't see what happened as I was on the north quays, hope it wasn't a cyclist or as serious as it seemed.

Rew

ThisRegard wrote: »

Dublin Fire brigade are all paramedics so if there wasn't an ambulance available you'll get a fire brigade out to you. The fire truck may have been closer or the ambulance just wasn't available at the time but became so as the engine was on its way.

Arrived together

Zulu

yosser hughes wrote: »

Really? I didn't know that. Even in the case of a cyclist and pedestrian?
I can understand it in the case of a car accident in case they need to cut someone out of a car, but in this case it seems bizarre.
If I fell and hit my head on the street would the fire brigade attend?

Well I don't know for a fact - this is 2nd hand info. My friend is in the Fire Brigade. He works mostly on ambulance duty & dispatching as far as I can ascertain. If someone calls 999 they send the fire brigade along with whomever, as they are all paramedics, & they have the tools etc. "just in case". I guess it comes down to not risking how accurate or inaccurate the info is coming over the phone to them. Why risk it?

I could have totally picked him up incorrectly. Can anyone else confirm?

ThisRegard

Not sure, but I've seen ambulances turn up plenty of times without a fire engine to incidents, probably all weren't accidents which is probably why no fire brigade arrived. But I've also seen fire brigades appear first until an ambulance got to the scene. Maybe a question in the Emergency Services forum if we really wanted to know.

Ryath

Bambaata wrote: »

I use the road when cycling there as its impossible to get any training done using that cycle lane. I've tried but am constantly being impeded by walkers. ~When forced to use it (recent road works etc) ill give the walkers a shout from afar and mutter that its a cycle lane when passing but its a lost cause, i've never seen any of them move across. What really bugs me are the parents walking their young children in buggies on it! Do they not care for their children?!? Reminds me of a woman yesterday who had the front wheels of a buggy out on the road while waiting at traffic lights!

Reminds me of an incident I had on them probably nearly 10 years ago only cycled for leisure and getting around back then so wasn't quite as fast as I am now:D

In cycle lane on a long straight stretch coming up on a woman pushing a buggy going the same direction as I was, slowed down a fair bit to go around her probably only a bit faster than walking pace when right as I came behind her she swung the buggy around into my path. Slammed on the brakes ended up doing a stoppie rapping my shins of the bars and balanced up in the air looking down at the baby hoping I wouldn't fall forwards. In what seemed like slow motion the back wheel came down. Mother was as shook as I was and just stammered sorry. I just muttered something about it being a bloody cycle path and hopped on the bike and tore of my shin killing me.

Just hope she was more careful in future probably still wouldn't stay out of the cycle path but a least not just swing around the buggy with out looking. Should have let a shout out coming up on her would certainly do it now but was young with a bit less sense than now, was dogmatic in my belief that it was my right to be in the cycle lane and they just shouldn't be there.

Greenman

Ryath wrote: »

Should have let a shout out coming up on her would certainly do it now but was young with a bit less sense than now, was dogmatic in my belief that it was my right to be in the cycle lane and they just shouldn't be there.

Or ring a bell.

Is a bell a legal requirement on a bike ?

rich.d.berry

Greenman wrote: »

Or ring a bell.

Is a bell a legal requirement on a bike ?

Yes. See the first point under Keeping your bicycle roadworthy

Bunnyhopper

rich.d.berry wrote: »

Yes. See the first point under Keeping your bicycle roadworthy

I wouldn't trust driver instructors to get it quite right when it comes to cycling

There's an exemption to the requirement for a bell in the case of a cycle constructed or adapted for use as a racing cycle.

BostonB

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

...There's an exemption to the requirement for a bell in the case of a cycle constructed or adapted for use as a racing cycle.

If being used for that purpose or transport to and from. I think.

Not that it matters, many have headphones on, using a mobile, or talking to friends. Some just can't walk straight. So you have slow down and take care passing them.