Calling All Beef Experts!!!

seabre

Hi All

My mum makes THE most amazing stew/ casserole using a 1lb or 2 of what she calls "Chump Steak", I have went to the butchers numerous times in the North of Ireland and asked for chump steak and the butcher has very kindly obliged me albeit at quite an expense but the cut is so delicious cooked this way I dont mind one bit! I have also bought a Chump Roast of beef and again although expensive (about £30 for a roast for @4 people) its so delicious its worth it!

Problem is this- I now live in the West of Ireland and every time I go to a butchers to ask for this they look at me as though I have 2 heads!! A few of them have shook their heads completely blankly - others have said "dont have that - this is the same" and put a nameless cut in a bag and hand it to me which to my disappointment is most def NOT the same!

I have actually developed a phobia of asking for this now as I feel really stupid the way the butchers look at me when I ask but I plucked up the courage yesterday and asked the butcher at the counter in Tescos if he had any Chump Steak - again the blank stare - I quickly tried to explain what i wanted and said I THINK its a cut from the rump of the cow and he said "Oh - You mean SIRLOIN" !!! I know I didnt mean Sirloin as I dont think my Ma would be in the habit of stewing sirloin steaks!!

Can anyone help me out with the terminology I should be usin? I have looked up Chump steak on t'internet and can find loads of recipes for it but no other alternative names for it!

The Hill Billy

I think that you should be asking for 'Chuck Steak'. This is better suited to stewing. Any of the butchers that I use would usually have this on labelled as 'stewing steak' or 'braising steak'.

The Sweeper

Chump is a cut from a sheep or lamb, not a cow. It's the piece at the end of the torso before the hindquarters. Chump chops in lamb or mutton are great for stew. The equivalent cut in beef doesn't really exist, as that part of the steer is divided into sirloin, tenderloin, top sirloin, bottom sirloin and flank, because cuts on a cow go horizontally, whereas cuts on mutton tend to be sectioned vertically.

So i've got really no idea which bit she might be getting as beef 'chump', but best guess would be bottom sirloin...

Though if you're looking for the rump of a cow you're looking for the round.

o_O Confused? I am.

the beer revolu

Yup, a common problem.
Different countries not only have different names for the same cuts but often butcher differently too, producing different cuts.

Best option is to ask a good butcher. A good butcher is unlikely to be found behind a supermarket counter and lots of trays of 'stirfry' and meat in prepared sauce usually isn't a sign of a good butcher either.
Even many good butchers in Ireland are shockingly conservative in their approach to butchery and couldn't possibly imagine any alternative ways of butchering an animal other than the way they were taught many years ago.
However, there are keen, progressive butchers out there who would love to help you - you just gotta find them.
For me, that butcher is the younger generation at O' Mahony's in the English Market, Cork. He produces lots of 'foreign' cuts and if you ask him about a certain cut, he is keen to talk about it and will often even show you on a carcass where it's from.

I, too would guess that it's a part of the sirloin you're after (but I'm not a butcher) - not to be confused with striploin.
Also to confuse things even more, I find my dad (who is Irish but and in his eighties) sometimes has different terms for cuts of meat to what are in use today. I, too, am constantly confused but meat cuts.

phormium

You could ask James Whelan Butchers in Clonmel, they have an online service too so you can get it sent to you. I find their meat is great, especially the beef, not cheap though but you get what you pay for I suppose. I have been in their shop as well, deliberately went looking for it when passing through Clonmel, nice to able to look at the produce instead of online. I have ordered online as well in the past, worth ordering a good bit to get the free delivery and it comes packed ready for freezing if you want to.

seabre

The Hill Billy wrote: »

I think that you should be asking for 'Chuck Steak'. This is better suited to stewing. Any of the butchers that I use would usually have this on labelled as 'stewing steak' or 'braising steak'.

No sorry Def not Chuck steak as this is from the neck of the cow! Chump is def somewhere on the hindquarters of the cow - I know that much for sure - but Thanks anyway!

alfalad

How about ringing your mum's butcher or a butcher where you have got it before and asking them is there another term for it, or to describe the part of the animal used. That might be the best bet.

restingpilgrim

think this may be the same stuff as rump steak which I used to buy in england, not sure what it would be in Ireland maybe round steak. There is a butcher called okanemeats online with some award from Jenny Bristow with a website they would probably be able to help you. They have a facebook page as well maybe you could ask on there.

The Sweeper

It's not rump or round. Rump and round come from the 'rump' - the backside. Chump is more the flank.

Jellybaby1

seabre wrote: »

I have actually developed a phobia of asking for this now as I feel really stupid the way the butchers look at me...

What actual training do our butchers get here in Ireland. They at least should have made some enquiries on your behalf! I would have thought more along the lines of 'chuck' rather than 'chump', but these days I just ask for 'stewing beef or steak' or 'round steak' would also work - cheap and cheerful! I don't like buying meat or fish in supermarkets as I find the staff are not always that well informed, although there are exceptions. I suggest you go on the hunt for a better butcher.

The Sweeper

Find a butcher that has a 'cuts' graphic up on the wall - you know the ones that section the cow out. Hopefully they'll have more than one graphic - one cow, one sheep, one pig etc. Explain to them that your mother buys 'chump beef steak' - I find it bizarre that any butcher would look at you in total confusion because even if it's not a common beef cut they should know the word from sheep.

Then point at the bit you want and ask them about it.

Morag

The Sweeper

Yeah, cept the only problem with that is the beef diagram is American cuts... In Britain they do it differently again...

http://www.allorganicshop.co.uk/images/beef_cuts.JPG

restingpilgrim

The Sweeper wrote: »

It's not rump or round. Rump and round come from the 'rump' - the backside. Chump is more the flank.

If you look at the diagram shown of english cuts you will see the rump does not come from as you say the backside but just in front of it, if you compare this with the same diagram of a sheep for chump you will see that chump steak comes from just in front of the backside too, hence my belief it is the the english rump steak.

seabre

Thanks everyone for the replies! It seems this is a great talking point!

So I asked my Mum to ask her butcher is "Chump" known as anything else and he said it could also be referred to as "Rump" !!!

So I'll be heading to my local butchers this weekend armed with this info and hopefully will be having a delicious Sunday Lunch!!

Jellybaby1

I've printed out Sweeper's diagram, it gives a good idea of the cuts. Another cut my mum used to use in stews was Rib Steak, she had the tightest of budgets and her stews were gorgeous but she cooked long and slow.

The Sweeper

Okay based on you asking for rump steak (aka round steak?) this is what I think the cut will look like:



I find that cut quite useful for two things - sliced extremely thinly across the grain it's great for things like stir fries (literally fried on scorching heat for about one minute, taken off the pan and allowed to rest while everything else is cooked, and added back in with the juices just before serving, only long enough to heat it up), and cut into chunks for curries cooked for 20-30 minutes as opposed to long and slow (in which case I always prefer a cut with more connective tissue).

It's also good for steak sandwiches - trim the fat, lay it flat and using a very sharp knife cut it in half laterally so you have two half-thickness pieces, and then sear it and let it rest while you fry up some onions...

I've tried stewing it before, and find that while it keeps a soft texture and doesn't become tough or chewy in spite of long cooking, it dries out and becomes quite flavourless, having imparted any flavour it has to the stew - so you have a flavourful sauce with lumps of soft, sawdusty meat in it (I can't find a better word to describe it).

Cuts are different again in Australia:

http://www.biggun.com.au/pdf/BeefandlambcutschartscookingApr08.pdf

And even more confusing, here's a guide to cuts from an Irish butcher:

http://www.mtwomeybutchers.ie/stg/userupload/site2867/thumbstg_14_beef_cuts.jpg

(Where the rump is the arse :P - but also which lists the cut 'the ball of the round' which for quite some time I thought my mother was making up... o_O)

seabre

OK - Browsing tonight again and I came across this:

http://www.mckeesproduce.com/countrystore-home.aspx?id=1371

This is what I have been looking for - I was in Supervalu today & met a very nice & friendly butcher - asked him for Chump or Rump steak or its equivalent - he ended up giving me sirloin - which I have to say LOOKS exactly like the picture in the link above.

I'll be cooking it Sun - will keep you all posted!

Jellybaby1

Sirloin I'd say is far too good for stewing, it's not a tough cut which you need for long cooking. Very clever butcher to give you Sirloin when you wanted a stewing cut! :rolleyes:

Minder

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Very clever butcher to give you Sirloin when you wanted a stewing cut! :rolleyes:

Those steaks look like they are cut from the rump end as the sirloin starts to widen out. That slip of fat at one end that is separating the muscles will deepen as it moves through the rump. Selling rump at sirloin prices for stewing. I wouldn't be happy paying sirloin prices for rump or round steak.

seabre

Price is really not an issue for me - for once!!!

When I make a pot of stew I generally use Stewing Beef which costs me @ 8 euro per kilo

The steak I bought yesterday - sirloin is 15 euro per kilo and I will use it for like a casserole type dish that my Mum does with just some carrots onions and served with mash.

The Chump steak that she uses for this casserole is pictured in the link below and priced at £12 stg per kilo - so I dont mind paying what I did if its what Ive been trying to get all along!

http://www.mckeesproduce.com/countrystore-home.aspx?id=1371

jap gt

where i work chump steak is also called sirlion (would be more for frying or grilling), if some one asked for some steak for stew they would get round

the beer revolu

jap gt wrote: »

where i work chump steak is also called sirlion (would be more for frying or grilling), if some one asked for some steak for stew they would get round

I'm glad I'm not a customer there.
Round is a bloody awful cut for stewing - the cause of rubbish stews the length and breadth of the country!

jap gt

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm glad I'm not a customer there.
Round is a bloody awful cut for stewing - the cause of rubbish stews the length and breadth of the country!

you would be very surprized the amount of people that ask for it, for stews and casaroles, i agree with you but if the customer wants it thats what they get

seabre

So folks
I know a lot of people have been suggesting that I have been taken for a ride in buying the sirloin for a stew so I feel the need to explain.

Firstly its not really a stew Im making (sorry if I referrred to it as that) its more of a casserole - I brown the steak on the pan then put it in a casserole dish with chunky carrots and onions plenty of salt and pepper and fill to 2 thirds with water - stick in the oven on Sunday morn and let cook on a med heat for a few hours. Serve with mash & I swear it is gorgeous - as I said I have tried it with frying steak, round steak and a lot of other cuts but its never quite the same as my Mums Chump steak - until this weekend.

The Sirloin I got from the butcher in Supervalu was EXACTLY like the chump, it is SO tender you dont even need a knife to cut it - I browned and placed it in the casserole dish in one piece but by the time it was cooked it was literally falling into pieces as I was serving it - Melt in your Mouth!

Thankyou Supervalu butcher! If any of you do try it let me know what you think!

Jellybaby1

seabre wrote: »

So folks
I know a lot of people have been suggesting that I have been taken for a ride in buying the sirloin for a stew so I feel the need to explain.

Firstly its not really a stew Im making (sorry if I referrred to it as that) its more of a casserole - I brown the steak on the pan then put it in a casserole dish with chunky carrots and onions plenty of salt and pepper and fill to 2 thirds with water - stick in the oven on Sunday morn and let cook on a med heat for a few hours. Serve with mash & I swear it is gorgeous - as I said I have tried it with frying steak, round steak and a lot of other cuts but its never quite the same as my Mums Chump steak - until this weekend.

The Sirloin I got from the butcher in Supervalu was EXACTLY like the chump, it is SO tender you dont even need a knife to cut it - I browned and placed it in the casserole dish in one piece but by the time it was cooked it was literally falling into pieces as I was serving it - Melt in your Mouth!

Thankyou Supervalu butcher! If any of you do try it let me know what you think!

That's how I make my casserole, but I use stewing beef or rib steak and instant beef stock. Oh all right, I'll give the sirloin a go just 'cos you said so 'cos I'm curious!

The Sweeper

This is what I referred to earlier - the meat stays very tender and soft but to me it becomes flavourless - the flavour cooks out and you end up with this sort of 'sawdusty' meat. Getting a good braise on the meat first (thoroughly browning the chunks) may help this but I still have my suspicions.

Long slow cooking on something like shin of beef comes through better in my view - you get the tender meat, a great flavour and when you eat the meat it still has flavour and texture without breaking your jaw with chewiness. When using any cut with connective tissue be aware that unless you trim it you can end up with gristle in your stew - I recall someone on here getting shin of beef and lamenting that it was bloody terrible because it was like a pot full of gristle. We established they'd been given a cut from the low end of the shin where it's all tendons - the meat would have had thick pieces of clear connective tissue before cooking.

foodaholic

Have to say you can't beat beef shin for slow cooking like that - the beef you can eat with a spoon , and lively flavour

Minder

The Sweeper wrote: »

This is what I referred to earlier - the meat stays very tender and soft but to me it becomes flavourless - the flavour cooks out and you end up with this sort of 'sawdusty' meat.

+1 on the shin. The other cut that always keeps its flavour is oxtail. Often too rich and once cooked, I won't revisit it for another 6 months. My butcher is now selling veal tail. Makes a fantastic ragu with white wine, garlic, tomatoes and soft herbs.

seabre

The Sweeper wrote: »

This is what I referred to earlier - the meat stays very tender and soft but to me it becomes flavourless - the flavour cooks out and you end up with this sort of 'sawdusty' meat. Getting a good braise on the meat first (thoroughly browning the chunks) may help this but I still have my suspicions.

Have to disagree with you there - Not sure what you are referring to when you talk about the "chunks" as the cut is like one v large steak which I leave in one piece throughout the whole cooking process - I do add a good dollop of bovril to the water which perhaps helps the flavour but it really is so rich tasting & far from flavourless and "sawdusty" wouldnt be a word id imagine appropriate for the texture - it is admittedly very very tender - but hey different strokes & all that!

Kimia

Oh shin of beef. I don't know what to call it here in Canada so I just miss it loads. I tried shank of beef but the flavour was totally not the same.

Now, bone-in beef short ribs are my new go to - A. Mazing!!!!!!

Mellor

Kimia wrote: »

Oh shin of beef. I don't know what to call it here in Canada so I just miss it loads. I tried shank of beef but the flavour was totally not the same.

Now, bone-in beef short ribs are my new go to - A. Mazing!!!!!!

The problem with different cuts and naming.

Shin refers to the front leg of beef, the rear is simply just leg.
A quick google suggest that both shin and leg are refered to as shank in the US and canada. but the flavour shouldn't be very different, it was more likely the cooking.

If you ask for a foreshank, its should be the cut labeled shin in the UK and Ireland.

the beer revolu

Kimia wrote: »

Oh shin of beef. I don't know what to call it here in Canada so I just miss it loads. I tried shank of beef but the flavour was totally not the same.

Now, bone-in beef short ribs are my new go to - A. Mazing!!!!!!

Yup I've recently discovered the joy of stewing short ribs.
It's now a toss up between them and shin for me.

joseph brand

the beer revolu wrote: »

Yup I've recently discovered the joy of stewing short ribs.
It's now a toss up between them and shin for me.

I'm drooling over all this talk of tasty cuts. I've never heard of short ribs or shin. My wife came home 2 weeks ago all smiles saying "I got a nice big steak for tonight." I checked the packet, it said round steak. She slept in the shed that night. Joke. I decided to stew it and it was fine I suppose. I'm no expert since I haven't tried Sirloin like the OP, or these other types.

What do yous do with shin and ribs? Stew only, or some other way?

Cuts of meat in Ireland:
http://www.gleesonbutchers.ie/meat_cuts.htm#beef

Brian?

I made a stew recently with round steak, not my usual choice for stew mind, and added a piece of oktail. It was savage.

My mother, the maker of an almighty stew, heaped praise on it. That's a great endorsement right there.

Minder

joseph brand wrote: »

What do yous do with shin and ribs? Stew only, or some other way?

Shin of beef is excellent for Beef Rendang - the recipe below is one I repeat her a lot and is from James Oseland's excellent cookbook - Cradle of Flavour.

Beef Rendang recipe for four sparrows (two hungry people in our house with a bit left over for my lunch)

For the paste

1 onion
1 thumb sized knob of fresh ginger
4 cloves garlic
1 lemongrass stalk, tough outer layer removed and roughly chopped
1 tsp turmeric
2 long red fresh chillies
1 nut of nutmeg or 1/2 tsp of ground nutmeg
4 cloves or a couple of pinches of ground clove

Blitz all of that to a paste and add to wok or non stick pan (Non stick pan is best)

Next the whole spices

1 thumb sized knob of galangal cut into discs
1 cinnamon stick
4 kaffir lime leaves

Then add 400ml/14fl oz coconut milk, same amount of water and 600g braising steak, cut into 2cm/1inch cubes. I use shin of beef here - the connective tissue in the shin meat keeps the whole thing from drying out.

Bring the whole concoction to the boil and simmer for about 90 minutes to two hours covered. Check a couple of times that it is not sticking.
Uncover and start to reduce the liquid content. This bit should take from 30 minutes to 1 hour. The rendang will start life as a pale yellow colour - as the liquid boils off, it will gradually darken until the meat and solids are frying in the oil from the coconut milk. As the last of the liquid evaporates, it is important to keep stirring and watch the heat. It will burn easily (hence the non stick pan). It should darken to a rich mahogany colour.

Rendang is a dry curry from Malaysia - if you prefer you curry with a little sauce (I do) add a little water right at the end, ie when the frying has produced it's magic. Serve with plain boiled rice, a little fresh coriander and a pile of bean shoots.