Is the Government planning to double the price of cheap alcohol?

darkman2

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/report-govt-to-increase-drink-prices-to-curb-teen-drinking-535068.html



The socialists must be outraged!



Hitting the poorest the hardest...



I know this is in effect just another tax but I agree with the principle but won't this breed a bigger black market?

STANDCLEAR!!!

Makes no sense teenagers will manage to get the extra money, in my opinion they should just bump the minimum age up to 21 and this should reduce the number of friends they can rely on to buy the alcohol for them.

partyatmygaff

STANDCLEAR!!! wrote: »

Makes no sense teenagers will manage to get the extra money, in my opinion they should just bump the minimum age up to 21 and this should reduce the number of friends they can rely on to buy the alcohol for them.

Yeah... because the age limit is the problem...

The problem lies solely with Irish society. For some strange, inexplicable reason drinking is seen as being synonymous with fun. People don't seem to realise that you don't necessarily need to drink to enjoy yourself. In fact, there's a stigma in Ireland attached to people who don't drink. It's seen as odd or people who don't are labeled "Losers" whereas in other countries (Perhaps not the UK) there's a stigma attached to people who absolutely need alcohol to think they're having a good time.

I don't really see the issue with them increasing the price of drink. Extra tax revenue from a non-essential but high demand item and some (If perhaps a bit small) improvement to public health.

Lapin

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Yeah... because the age limit is the problem...

The problem lies solely with Irish society. For some strange, inexplicable reason drinking is seen as being synonymous with fun. People don't seem to realise that you don't necessarily need to drink to enjoy yourself. In fact, there's a stigma in Ireland attached to people who don't drink. It's seen as odd or people who don't are labeled "Losers" whereas in other countries (Perhaps not the UK) there's a stigma attached to people who absolutely need alcohol to think they're having a good time.

I don't really see the issue with them increasing the price of drink. Extra tax revenue from a non-essential but high demand item and some (If perhaps a bit small) improvement to public health.

While I agree with much of what you say, I think the price increase is unfair on those (the majority) who do drink responsibly.

They are being punished for the actions of those who cannot handle their drink and the inefficient response by the Gardaí and Judiciary to underage drinking.


Very apt username there by the way. Should we bring a bottle?

stacexD

It's a bit annoying that everyone has to pay for the minority. Indeed we don't need alcohol to have a good time but it's a shame that we're going to be ripped off if we want to some.

Don't really think it will do much to stop teenagers drinking, €20 pocket money will still get you drunk on a Saturday afternoon.

Maybe it will reduce binge drinking for regular drinkers. Wouldn't be a bad thing really.

Would be nice to see cheaper prices in pubs to get people drinking there instead of on the streets or over doing it at home. When I drink before I go out it's usually trying to drink enough so I don't have to pay €5 a drink once I go out rather than to get absolutely plastered, but of course it ends in me being plastered. Don't need to be drunk to go out but if you're going out drinking with friends for the night it's easy to drink a 70cl and only buy 1 once you're out. If there were <€3 drinks I wouldn't drink before going to the pub.

stacexD

stacexD wrote: »

It's a bit annoying that everyone has to pay for the minority. Indeed we don't need alcohol to have a good time but it's a shame that we're going to be ripped off if we want to some.

Don't really think it will do much to stop teenagers drinking, €20 pocket money will still get you drunk on a Saturday afternoon.

Maybe it will reduce binge drinking for regular drinkers. Wouldn't be a bad thing really.

Would be nice to see cheaper prices in pubs to get people drinking there instead of on the streets or over doing it at home. When I drink before I go out it's usually trying to drink enough so I don't have to pay €5 a drink once I go out rather than to get absolutely plastered, but of course it ends in me being plastered. Don't need to be drunk to go out but if you're going out drinking with friends for the night it's easy to drink a 70cl and only buy 1 once you're out. If there were <€3 drinks I wouldn't drink before going to the pub.

You talk about drinking a 700ml bottle of vodka in one sitting as if it's normal behaviour.

It's only once I quit drinking completely, that I realised that alcohol did nothing to enhance my personality. It's simply a crutch for most Irish people to go out and talk to the opposite sex and get laid. We drink so much because we are a shy, self conscious nation.

Once it becomes a habit then it seems normal to poison yourself to such an extent. I mean, I've seen people on every kind of drug you can think of, but not much comes close to the absolute pile of shíte (messy, obnoxious, unconscious) that alcohol turns a person into once they've drunk roughly 6+ drinks. Of course in Ireland this is regular fare for pre-drinks on any given Friday or Saturday.

Once you free yourself from this mindset, the idea of emptying your wallet only to stumble home and be sick for the whole next day seems like the most abhorrent idea in the world!


I know some people here will complain that they are being punished for the doings of irresponsible people - but hey, if you're drinking that little it really won't affect you too much. I would doubt that someone who drinks the odd beer is stocking up on Dutch Gold every week. Let's not fall completely head over heels for the "protecting people" narrative anyway, this is purely about the $ and we all know it.

stacexD

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You talk about drinking a 700ml bottle of vodka in one sitting as if it's normal behaviour.

It's only once I quit drinking completely, that I realised that alcohol did nothing to enhance my personality. It's simply a crutch for most Irish people to go out and talk to the opposite sex and get laid. We drink so much because we are a shy, self conscious nation.

Once it becomes a habit then it seems normal to poison yourself to such an extent. I mean, I've seen people on every kind of drug you can think of, but not much comes close to the absolute pile of shíte (messy, obnoxious, unconscious) that alcohol turns a person into once they've drunk roughly 6+ drinks. Of course in Ireland this is regular fare for pre-drinks on any given Friday or Saturday.

Once you free yourself from this mindset, the idea of emptying your wallet only to stumble home and be sick for the whole next day seems like the most abhorrent idea in the world!


I know some people here will complain that they are being punished for the doings of irresponsible people - but hey, if you're drinking that little it really won't affect you too much. I would doubt that someone who drinks the odd beer is stocking up on Dutch Gold every week. Let's not fall completely head over heels for the "protecting people" narrative anyway, this is purely about the $ and we all know it.

Completely agree that it's all about the money!
Drinking a 700ml bottle isn't out of the ordinary for pre drinks at most parties (the type that I go to at least) maybe not drinking it all, giving out a few shots and what not but the bottle gets emptied either way. What I'm saying is that drinking a 70cl would be a lot less normal if people could afford to go out to the pub and buy drinks for the night rather than trying to drink before hand. The major plus side of people drinking in pubs is that there's a sober person at the other side of the bar able to refuse to give you any more drink, no matter what price alcohol is in the offies/shops you won't get anything as good as someone telling you you've had too much!

stacexD

stacexD wrote: »

Completely agree that it's all about the money!
Drinking a 700ml bottle isn't out of the ordinary for pre drinks at most parties (the type that I go to at least) maybe not drinking it all, giving out a few shots and what not but the bottle gets emptied either way. What I'm saying is that drinking a 70cl would be a lot less normal if people could afford to go out to the pub and buy drinks for the night rather than trying to drink before hand. The major plus side of people drinkign in pubs is that there'd a sober person at the other side of the bar able to refuse to give you any more drink, no matter what price alcohol is in the offies/shops you won't get anything as good as someone telling you you've had too much!

Oh, ha you don't need to explain the normality of drinking a 70cl for pre-drinks. I drank them for sport in my former life.

I don't think I've ever been refused a drink as long as I could walk and talk. Sure if you're only refusing drinks to people once they're legless then you haven't exactly done your job responsibly.

stacexD

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Oh, ha you don't need to explain the normality of drinking a 70cl for pre-drinks. I drank them for sport in my former life.

I don't think I've ever been refused a drink as long as I could walk and talk. Sure if you're only refusing drinks to people once they're legless then you haven't exactly done your job responsibly.

Never been refused either but know a lot of people who have been, once they try to kick up a fuss bouncers have them out

Although it is something pubs should be stricter about I think

thebman

stacexD wrote: »

Completely agree that it's all about the money!
Drinking a 700ml bottle isn't out of the ordinary for pre drinks at most parties (the type that I go to at least) maybe not drinking it all, giving out a few shots and what not but the bottle gets emptied either way. What I'm saying is that drinking a 70cl would be a lot less normal if people could afford to go out to the pub and buy drinks for the night rather than trying to drink before hand. The major plus side of people drinking in pubs is that there's a sober person at the other side of the bar able to refuse to give you any more drink, no matter what price alcohol is in the offies/shops you won't get anything as good as someone telling you you've had too much!

Thing is if your only having a few then you can afford to go drink in the pub.

I only ever drink in the pub and only go down about half ten and leave at about half 12, don't do night clubs or shots or anything.

I think cheap alcohol has made people drink more TBH and I'd welcome minimum prices and I think you'll see a change in peoples behavior within 6 months to a year and then people will appreciate it more than they were against it, much like the smoking ban IMO.

MadsL

Massive +1 on the raise the age limit to 21.

In the US this is serious, check out some of the penalties.

http://transportation.unm.edu/pubs/Under21-11x8.pdf

Teen drinking seems to be out of control in Ireland, I think it needs serious attention.

On the other hand why should I as adult responsible drinker have to put up with absurd drink prices...

Raising the age limit and increasing penalties for 'fishing' are the way to go I think...

BKtje

It really has nothing to do with an age limit, more on the attitudes of drinkers in Ireland. The limit may be 21 in the US or 18 in ireland and the UK but the problem still exists. In much of Europe the limit is 16 and while the problem is of coruse still there, it seems to be much less so.

It all comes down to the attitude to alcohol.

mistress_gi

Coming from a country where alcohol is readily available and the age limit is 16, even though none really complies with this. I still think too many rules, restrictions and the increasing price of alcohol makes it even more alluring to teens. I was raised in an environment where drinking was never a very big deal, now over drinking yes, it was never allowed but alcohol was always there so no big woop when I turned 18...
Just my 2 cents on the matter

Bottle_of_Smoke

Is the Irish government on the payroll of Asda, Sainsburys and Tesco Northern Ireland? Do they actually want to destroy the economies of Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan and Louth?

Its societal change is required. FFS in Netherlands you can get a bottle of beer in a supermarket for 35c. Then a 10c refund if you bring back the bottle. And 16 year olds can drink anything other than spirits.

If this leads to more increases in pub prices too I'm moving full time to MDMA

I'm highly skeptical of the claims about it being for young people/teens
the vintners have been lobbying for supermarket price increases for some time
http://www.vfi.ie/News/vfi-backs-ministers-stance-on-below-cost-selling-of-alcohol-74

The availability of cheap drink in supermarkets is a major contributor to pubs closing and the introduction of a minimum price that alcohol could be sold at would go a long way to keeping family run pubs trading and saving thousands of jobs throughout Ireland.”

The VFI though also warned that increasing excise levels would be counterproductive. “Increasing excise will only punish the moderate drinker and will not tackle the main culprits which are the supermarkets.

- purely for the sake of keeping the pubs open.
Nothing to do with anything else.

How many of FF are pub owners? 40%, was it?

Fine Gael manifesto:

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs

http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine%20Gael%20Manifesto%20low-res.pdf

Not a damn thing to do with teen drinking, everything to do with propping up the pubs by killing off competition. God forbid they lower their prices instead of whingeing to the govt.

drunkmonkey

Drug Dealers must be rubbing there hands with excitement. Were going back to the 80's.
I can see the headlines in the Sunday World this time next year, "Acid House scene makes a come back do to the high price of alcohol"

Ahh sure that will never happen (:rolleyes: http://tiny.cc/qa0gx )

Manach

My opinion, that the government is attempting, in a ham fisted way, to re-assert some parental type authority that has been lost by social change in Ireland. Previously instead of supporting parents as guardians of the family, now legislation and conventions have increased emphasis on teens as autonomus rights holders, and fully capable of decisions for themselves. In the case of alcohol, this does not appear to be the case.

eire.man

STANDCLEAR!!! wrote: »

Makes no sense teenagers will manage to get the extra money, in my opinion they should just bump the minimum age up to 21 and this should reduce the number of friends they can rely on to buy the alcohol for them.

they'll still get alcohol, if you cant stop them getting their hands illegal drugs what hope have you got with the drink!!

afatbollix

I thought the government brought in minimum prices for alcohol while everyone was looking the other way at the budget.

Does this mean that they are now just going to increase the minimum price?

Tin Foil Hat

What cheap alcohol?
In Ireland we have expensive alcohol, very expensive alcohol and extremely expensive alcohol.

And it seem that the people who sell the extremely expensive alcohol, the vintners at €4-€5 per pint, are the ones most in favour of this legislation. That's right, they're the ones who will give a guy 6-7 pints knowing damn well that he'll drive home after, or serve the local alko al day every day until he's lowered into a hole, or serve a guy who's already pissed ten shots of spirits in a pint glass. But they're only looking out for what's best for us, right. Nothing to do with their own turnover at all:cool:

RichieC

eire.man wrote: »

STANDCLEAR!!! wrote: »

Makes no sense teenagers will manage to get the extra money, in my opinion they should just bump the minimum age up to 21 and this should reduce the number of friends they can rely on to buy the alcohol for them.

they'll still get alcohol, if you cant stop them getting their hands illegal drugs what hope have you got with the drink!!

Drugs are easier to get. Dealers don't card.

Dr Galen

Nothing to do with Public health, cleaning up the streets etc. All to do with helping the pub trade, who are suffering, but who also fleeced everyone during the boom years, and are still trying to even these days.

Even if it were to do with some "good" reason like public health, putting the price up by a nominal amount will do nothing of any use.

Dannyboy83

bluewolf wrote: »

Not a damn thing to do with teen drinking, everything to do with propping up the pubs by killing off competition. God forbid they lower their prices instead of whingeing to the govt.

Agree.
The excise duty on alcohol should be increased across the board imo, in line with cigarettes.
Let's see how much Vintners care about public safety then

nice_guy80

this is riciulous

Enda Kenny is far too pious for my liking, along with others in the FG party.
and like FF they have many links to publicans

So I'm going to end up paying far more for enjoying a few cans at home at the weekend??? This is bullshíte

Why don't we go down the Swedish route??
Nationalise all Off Licences. (compensate all the current off licence owners)
It would...
Control the sale of alcohol properly.
Stop below cost selling of alcohol.
All profits go back into the health system to deal with addiction and other issues.

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

this is riciulous

Enda Kenny is far too pious for my liking, along with others in the FG party.
and like FF they have many links to publicans

So I'm going to end up paying far more for enjoying a few cans at home at the weekend??? This is bullshíte

Why don't we go down the Swedish route??
Nationalise all Off Licences. (compensate all the current off licence owners)
It would...
Control the sale of alcohol properly.
Stop below cost selling of alcohol.
All profits go back into the health system to deal with addiction and other issues.

Oh Jesus, a public service off license. The thought! "You'll have your cans in 4 to 6 weeks."

nice_guy80

it works in Sweden
run very well, all open the same hours and they get huge discounts from the suppliers!

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

it works in Sweden
run very well, all open the same hours and they get huge discounts from the suppliers!

So you believe that instead of just putting a stop to outlets selling things like dutch and bavaria for less than a euro a can - the government should come in, buy up all the offys and install government paid workers in every off license in the country with the unions etc that come with them?

nice_guy80

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So you believe that instead of just putting a stop to outlets selling things like dutch and bavaria for less than a euro a can - the government should come in, buy up all the offys and install government paid workers in every off license in the country with the unions etc that come with them?

has anyone ever attempted it? it could work. put the employees and management on a small commission based incentive scheme.
not every public worker has a union or joins a union. I never have.

ArmaniJeanss

Can someone explain how this is apparently a money making scheme for the government?

Lets say at the moment I buy 12 cans for €10. I pay 12 x Excise Duty and a certain amount of VAT.

Under the new minimum pricing of €1.10 a can, I'm able to buy 9 with that €10.
So now I pay 9 x Excise Duty and a certain amount of VAT. And the VAT I pay is the same I think (open to correction on this but my total spend is still €10 so the VAT portion is surely constant.).
So the government is actually down 3xExcise Duty on the deal.

Theres nothing in the proposed legislation that the difference in the current price (83c) and the new min price (€1.10) goes to the government. Even if there was it would be easily got around (cue Dutch Gold being withdrawn and the new brand Holland Silver being released so that the government have no prior price to grab the differential).

ArmaniJeanss

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Can someone explain how this is apparently a money making scheme for the government?

Lets say at the moment I buy 12 cans for €10. I pay 12 x Excise Duty and a certain amount of VAT.

Under the new minimum pricing of €1.10 a can, I'm able to buy 9 with that €10.
So now I pay 9 x Excise Duty and a certain amount of VAT. And the VAT I pay is the same I think (open to correction on this but my total spend is still €10 so the VAT portion is surely constant.).
So the government is actually down 3xExcise Duty on the deal.

Theres nothing in the proposed legislation that the difference in the current price (83c) and the new min price (€1.10) goes to the government. Even if there was it would be easily got around (cue Dutch Gold being withdrawn and the new brand Holland Silver being released so that the government have no prior price to grab the differential).

Well the problem stems from the fact, and I'm basing this on people's reactions on this forum and others, that people aren't even considering lowering their intake of alcohol, and so will pay more regardless to not have to.


I'm a smoker. Putting the price of smokes up 5% doesn't make me smoke 5% less. It makes me pay 5% more.


Drugs are extremely difficult to legislate for when attempting to "curtail" their use, but they're great for making money off!

ArmaniJeanss

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Well the problem stems from the fact, and I'm basing this on people's reactions on this forum and others, that people aren't even considering lowering their intake of alcohol, and so will pay more regardless to not have to.


I'm a smoker. Putting the price of smokes up 5% doesn't make me smoke 5% less. It makes me pay 5% more.

Thats a fair point, I guess from an economic standpoint there could be an assumption that people will still buy X units so an increase in price at the lower level will make no difference.

I'm not fully gone on that theory though.
I accept with cigarettes (smoker myself) that you will buy 20 because you plan to smoke 20 and price rises don't really matter.

But with alcohol, at the cheap end of the market, I think there is more of a situation of buying as much as you can for €10 or €15 etc.
I'd often see people pick up brandA at 10 for €10, then spot BrandB on special at 12 for €10 and buy that instead, so I think the price comes into play more - people have a max spend in mind.

Quite possible I'm completely wrong though.

the_syco

partyatmygaff wrote: »

For some strange, inexplicable reason drinking is seen as being synonymous with fun.

For some strange, inexplicable reason, apart from drinking there's not really any other activity that involves meeting random girls of your own age in a large venue, other than whilst drinking.

This isn't about underage drinking: if it was, there'd be crackdowns on offies that sell young people drink, and not crackdowns on everyone that drinks.

thebman wrote: »

I think cheap alcohol has made people drink more TBH and I'd welcome minimum prices and I think you'll see a change in peoples behavior within 6 months to a year and then people will appreciate it more than they were against it, much like the smoking ban IMO.

When the pubs became dear, people drank before going to the pub. Now that the drink before the pub will become more expensive, I wonder how many will just take drugs as well as drink alcohol to get the same effect, but cheaper?

=-=

I wonder how this will effect the crime rate?

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

When the pubs became dear, people drank before going to the pub. Now that the drink before the pub will become more expensive, I wonder how many will just take drugs as well as drink alcohol to get the same effect, but cheaper?

What are these drugs that will be cheaper than drink?

The Scientician

I predict a riot.

vinnyirl

I work in an off licence and I can tell you for a fact that increasing the price of drink will cause the majority of people to drink less (which may not be a bad thing) The people who buy the same drink day in day out will buy 6 cans a day if its on offer, more if its a good offer and then they go back to 2-3 cans a day when the offer finishes. Same goes for the spirit drinkers switching to a 70cl bottle instead of a 200ml bottle when an offer comes around.

The Guardí are working to stop underage drinking, hell they have been sending 15 year old's into off licences and if the off licence sells them drink the off licence gets a fine and a possible closure order. They also come out when we call them about people who have been found to be buying drink for underage people, in my opinion they are doing as much as they can. But they still cant stop parents who let their kids drink because thats legal "It is an offence to buy alcohol for people under the age of 18. It is also an offence to give alcohol to anyone under the age of 18 unless in a domestic home and they have parental consent."

From what I can see, from what has been said/written this will have little effect on the price of regular beers like Budweiser and Heineken. This price might go up by a few cent but the cost of the really cheap €1 beers will be increased to be inline with the rest of the beers. Same goes for cheap spirits but maybe not cheap wine (you can get a bottle of wine for €5 btw)

For everyone that is planning to go get their beers in the North, they are doubling their prices too, look it up. Or at least England is.

Duiske

Lapin wrote: »

They are being punished for the actions of those who cannot handle their drink and the inefficient response by the Gardaí and Judiciary to underage drinking.

Yes, its the Garda's role to police underage drinkers. The lovable, saintly little mites parents should not come into the equation at all.

amacachi

People need to realise a minimum price isn't just a tax increase, it's a guaranteed profit margin.

The hardest hit by this will be alcoholics and their families. Who is more likely to reduce consumption due to price increases, addicts or recreational drinkers? Ridiculous.

Run_to_da_hills

Potin and home brew kits will make a big comeback and the kits will be perfected just like like home grown cannabis.

Dr Galen

the_syco wrote: »

This isn't about underage drinking: if it was, there'd be crackdowns on offies that sell young people drink, and not crackdowns on everyone that drinks.

If stopping underage drinking is the aim, then mandatory locked drinks cupboards in houses would be a great idea. :pac:

I never bought drink when I was a kid, like everyone else, you'd take it in turns to swipe it from the folks.

At least if they were honest about the real reasons for this - increase tax take and protect the pub industry - then it wouldn't be so bad. Public health and protecting the wee innocents, knacker drinking cheap cider or Daddies single malt, are barely a secondary concern here.

nesf

stacexD wrote: »

Completely agree that it's all about the money!
Drinking a 700ml bottle isn't out of the ordinary for pre drinks at most parties (the type that I go to at least) maybe not drinking it all, giving out a few shots and what not but the bottle gets emptied either way. What I'm saying is that drinking a 70cl would be a lot less normal if people could afford to go out to the pub and buy drinks for the night rather than trying to drink before hand. The major plus side of people drinking in pubs is that there's a sober person at the other side of the bar able to refuse to give you any more drink, no matter what price alcohol is in the offies/shops you won't get anything as good as someone telling you you've had too much!

I'd agree with the previous poster, once you consider drinking 70cl of spirits as normal there's a problem. Now I say this as someone who used to consider drinking a bottle of whiskey before going out as perfectly acceptable. I've been off the drink for about 7 years at this stage maybe drinking 2 or 3 times a year and I don't think I'll ever go back to it. Just the cost of it alone puts me off.

I think we seriously need to get away from a culture where going out and drinking 8 pints or a bottle of spirits is considered to be part and parcel of a good night out. All because of a minority who don't handle it well.

Run_to_da_hills

Dr Galen wrote: »

If stopping underage drinking is the aim, then mandatory locked drinks cupboards in houses would be a great idea. :pac:

I never bought drink when I was a kid, like everyone else, you'd take it in turns to swipe it from the folks.
.

I won a six pack of Harp at a sale of work in Dunlaoghaire when I was about 13. This wouldn't happen today.

RandolphEsq

I hope it is just the cheap beers that get hit, because it is pricey enough to buy less well-known beers from independent off-licences (my beloved Banana Bread Beer). When I go into an independent off licence to buy specialist beers, I go in not with the mentality of "how many should I buy to do me for the whole party?", but instead I think "What beer am I in the mood for tonight?" and I am not even thinking about getting very drunk I am looking to enjoy a party with friends and a few nice beers. I buy no where near enough to get very drunk.
My opinion is that I buy less of these 'specialty' beers primarily because they are more expensive, and secondary because they are nicer so the sole purpose of drinking them is not to get drunk but to enjoy the taste.

RichieC

I would actually be less bothered about this if they were more honest about the reasons..

Dannyboy83

stacexD wrote: »

The major plus side of people drinking in pubs is that there's a sober person at the other side of the bar able to refuse to give you any more drink, no matter what price alcohol is in the offies/shops you won't get anything as good as someone telling you you've had too much!

Just speaking from personal experience, but I did doorwork in Cork for about 7 years, we frequently complained to management at various venues about the amount of alcohol being served, but management wouldn't hear of it.
As another poster said, a bar person wouldn't really be doing their job properly if they had to refuse people drink. They'd just serve the person until they were legless, then have security remove them.

Our concern was was safety of the patrons.
Management's concern was how to get as much drink into them and as much money off them - in the little 3 hour window available to them, before getting them out the door again.

If you've ever been to clubs on the continent, the difference is stark.

People are correct to say it's a problem with Irish Society - it is - but it's an understandable reaction in my opinion, the binge drinking culture in Ireland is never going to change until the licensing laws and opening hours are reformed. Honestly, imagine if McDonalds was open for 3 hours on a Saturday night and that's not even intoxicating...

maggy_thatcher

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

People are correct to say it's a problem with Irish Society - it is - but it's an understandable reaction in my opinion, the binge drinking culture in Ireland is never going to change until the licensing laws and opening hours are reformed.

Personally, I think the licencing laws and opening hours should be liberalized -- personal responsibility begins with yourself, and not a nanny state babysitting your every move.

However, what I'd be much more in favour of is substantial increase in the penalties for misbehaving - cause a ruckus outside --> percentage based fine based on your wealth (or income) + community service cleaning the streets during the traditional 'social hours' outside the pubs for the next couple of weeks should be enough to discourage bad behaviour fairly rapidly...

This way, those who misbehave get what they deserve, and 'responsible' drinkers aren't penalized by them.

What's fairer than that?

goose2005

nice_guy80 wrote: »

this is riciulous

Enda Kenny is far too pious for my liking, along with others in the FG party.
and like FF they have many links to publicans

So I'm going to end up paying far more for enjoying a few cans at home at the weekend??? This is bullshíte

Why don't we go down the Swedish route??
Nationalise all Off Licences. (compensate all the current off licence owners)
It would...
Control the sale of alcohol properly.
Stop below cost selling of alcohol.
All profits go back into the health system to deal with addiction and other issues.

Is there that much below-cost selling anyway? After all, off licences charge the same as supermarkets for the most part - where are they making their profit if so much is being sold at below cost?

jay-me

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Personally, I think the licencing laws and opening hours should be liberalized -- personal responsibility begins with yourself, and not a nanny state babysitting your every move.

However, what I'd be much more in favour of is substantial increase in the penalties for misbehaving - cause a ruckus outside --> percentage based fine based on your wealth (or income) + community service cleaning the streets during the traditional 'social hours' outside the pubs for the next couple of weeks should be enough to discourage bad behaviour fairly rapidly...

This way, those who misbehave get what they deserve, and 'responsible' drinkers aren't penalized by them.

What's fairer than that?

You seemed to have missed the part where the average person gets screwed to the wall again...:rolleyes:

maggy_thatcher

jay-me wrote: »

You seemed to have missed the part where the average person gets screwed to the wall again...:rolleyes:

Only if they don't behave themselves...severe penalties for those that cause trouble (whether drunk or not), no penalties for those who drink responsibility or behave themselves...

What I mean is - as an alternative to what our current Nanny-state is planning.

Liam Byrne

jay-me wrote: »

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Personally, I think the licencing laws and opening hours should be liberalized -- personal responsibility begins with yourself, and not a nanny state babysitting your every move.

However, what I'd be much more in favour of is substantial increase in the penalties for misbehaving - cause a ruckus outside --> percentage based fine based on your wealth (or income) + community service cleaning the streets during the traditional 'social hours' outside the pubs for the next couple of weeks should be enough to discourage bad behaviour fairly rapidly...

This way, those who misbehave get what they deserve, and 'responsible' drinkers aren't penalized by them.

What's fairer than that?

You seemed to have missed the part where the average person gets screwed to the wall again...:rolleyes:

What "average person" is getting screwed in that scenario ?

recipio

Just very disapointing that an intelligent politician like Roisin Shorthall believes this will make a difference.
Price rises will not affect behaveour. The answer is to provide alternatives to pubs and that means giving licences to restaurants, pizza joints and cafes to serve beer. I mean pints, not overpriced bottles of fizz.
That however would mean taking on the vintners. Now, that would take some guts, a rare commodity in a politician.

SeanW

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What "average person" is getting screwed in that scenario ?

I think the whole point was that the average person would NOT get screwed, to benefit the government/barmans lobby. Ergo, it has no chance of being implemented.

Sad but true, I fear.