Boeing 787 Dreamliner EIDW

dercu

Rumours of 787 Dreamliner arriving in EIDW on the 25th January for 2 days.
Anyone got any more info regarding this?

highlydebased

Demo for a european airline I've heard

dercu

Heard it might be parked on West Apron or in Hangar 6 for visitors

Tenger

highlydebased wrote: »

Demo for a european airline I've heard

Actually it seems to be lining up with this:
http://www.euromoneyseminars.com/eventdetails/0/4327/14th-Annual-European-Airfinance-Conference-Dublin-2012.html

14th Annual European AirFinance Conference, 24th-26th January.

Randy Tinseth of Boeing will be a speaker. Having the B787 in town would be a nice bonus for his piece.

dyer

sure would be nice to see her! there was a fascinating documentary on discovery recently (think it was discovery) showing the manufacture of the engines at the Rolls-Royce plant.

Nissan doctor

Possibly targeting FR for the RyanAtlantic plans that may or may not materialise.

MOL did say its was the availability of a suitable AC that was holding up the plans. Would Beoing be trying to get back in FR's good books?

dercu

Is it not Ryanair in Boeings bad books.

Nissan doctor

dercu wrote: »

Is it not Ryanair in Boeings bad books.

300 plus aircraft bought.....I doubt it!

zone 1

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Possibly targeting FR for the RyanAtlantic plans that may or may not materialise.

MOL did say its was the availability of a suitable AC that was holding up the plans. Would Beoing be trying to get back in FR's good books?

cant see that happing...........

Tenger

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Possibly targeting FR for the RyanAtlantic plans that may or may not materialise.

MOL did say its was the availability of a suitable AC that was holding up the plans. Would Beoing be trying to get back in FR's good books?

FR will not start up with the B787. huge upfront cost and the current delays/backlog are a problem.

I could see RyanAtlantic commencing with some youngish A330/B777 in a few years time. They may take advantage of the larger airlines offloading 'older' aircraft as part of their A350/B787 replacement programs.

cson

I have reservations about an LH version of FR getting off the ground. Long haul is a curious beast in that the serious money is made on First and Business class seats which is a product that FR wouldn't know the first thing about. I'm not sure how viable it'd be for an all LH economy flight.

Maybe if they introduced charges for all the frills associated with LH; PVOD, food etc [though I think I'm correct in saying there's an obligation to provide a meal for flights of that duration?]

Plus any start up would be using aircraft that are significantly older than any of the FR 738s so I don't know how that would work out for them considering they use the modern fleet as a specific selling point in the SH market.

boeingboy

Agh the East coast of US isnt LH its only Mid, not far at all.
With a Jaa level 2 ftl ya can go and come back, just a 14 hr day.

Itll be B763 to be sure. Steve Mc was sniffing around in IAH just prior to Xmas.

When Ryanair had biz class before it was quite good, I used it in preference to Aer fungus, at least the girls could flow down the aisle in FR(cuteys) well I married one from that era, shes still at it! without bouncing off you cheek to cheek! like the green women

:)

phonypony

cson wrote: »

Long haul is a curious beast in that the serious money is made on First and Business class seats which is a product that FR wouldn't know the first thing about. I'm not sure how viable it'd be for an all LH economy flight.

I seem to remember the 'plan' when MOL was thinking out loud was to have a mixed Business/Economy layout. In any case it certainly wouldn't(couldn't) follow the Ryanair model. I'm sure the ancillary charges would be well thought out for cattle class- use of IFE system (per movie charge maybe..), gambling via IFE, allowing you to use/charge your Ipad, food of course...

757-200 maybe fits the bill?

boeingboy

Seven Five yeah its the best, cheap to operate, old and does most things ya ask it to. Tis my office mainly but Fedex want them all and ARE paying big money for them.
We lose 28 in next 36 months... all to FDX.

cson

boeingboy wrote: »

Agh the East coast of US isnt LH its only Mid, not far at all.
With a Jaa level 2 ftl ya can go and come back, just a 14 hr day.

Don't think the East Coast of the US has been mentioned specifically anywhere, just long haul in general.

I'm guessing whichever of Avalon/Genesis/GECAS/RBS has the largest 757 fleet is where you work. Fedex bought all of BA's 757s too iirc.

On that note I think a separate thread for Ryanair LH Ops is the place for this discussion.

Any update on the 787 arriving into DUB the end of the month?

Mister Jingles

phonypony wrote: »

I seem to remember the 'plan' when MOL was thinking out loud was to have a mixed Business/Economy layout with beds and b***jobs

Fixed your post :P

Bessarion

boeingboy wrote: »

Agh the East coast of US isnt LH its only Mid, not far at all.
With a Jaa level 2 ftl ya can go and come back, just a 14 hr day.

Itll be B763 to be sure. Steve Mc was sniffing around in IAH just prior to Xmas.

When Ryanair had biz class before it was quite good, I used it in preference to Aer fungus, at least the girls could flow down the aisle in FR(cuteys) well I married one from that era, shes still at it! without bouncing off you cheek to cheek! like the green women

I agree with your opinion on Ireland - East Coast being medium haul rather than longhaul. I thought the B767 would be suitable as a possible start point, B752's are getting quite hard to get a hold of recently. However I had thought the A330 is cheaper to operate than the B767 so would be a better option for RyanAtlantic (or whatever it will be)

Have to disagree with your comparison of the airlines though. EI has got rid of all those 'green women' you mention. (I know what you are referring to though,was definitely the way it was 10-15 years ago) Been several waves of retirements since 2002. Vast majority of EI flights I have had in the last 3-4 years (at least twice a month) have all been 20-40 yrs old crew.


On another point I don't think we can compare FR when they had J class to the FR of today. Different beast entirely.

Irish Steve

If I was M o'L, i'd be looking at the largest aircraft I could get my hands on, and hubbing it out of SNN to the East Coast, as a forerunner to having an FR equivalent over on that side of the pond.

SNN with pre clearance, so no hassles with having to be able to bring back rejected passengers, a runway that can take any size aircraft, and (and this is the real advantage) a location that with the right handling, can allow the airframe to do 3 flights a day across the pond. 2 aircraft allows 3 flights a day in each direction, which is a huge advantage to the operating cost scenario.

My brother flew out to Melbourne recently on Qantas from LHR, the flight was an Airbus 380, with a stop in Singapore. They were 45 minutes late out of LHR, and were due to stop in Singapore for 90 Minutes for fuel. On arrival in SIN, they were all asked to disembark, but not to leave the immediate area, as they were aiming to leave on time in 45 minutes. During that time, they refuelled the aircraft, and recatered it, and cleaned up the cabin, my brother's comment when coming off was "I wasn't aware that the front cabin had crashed on arrival", as it looked like it had, and I've seen similar on many of the Long Haul at Dublin, after the Eastbound, the work to get the cabin presentable before the next sector was often significant. The 380 left SIN on time, having been fuelled and everything else in 45 minutes.

OK, probably not much in the way of bags or freight to deal with, but that's still an impressive turnround.

Given the right aircraft, the right people running all aspects of the operation, and the right hub feeds in and out, I could see this working, and working well. As to Mo'L being the right person to do it, that's debatable, I'd prefer to see someone like Richard Branson do it, but he's got plenty on his plate already, and this would not fit his preent style of operation.

So we don't completely derail the thread, I've looked at the attendees and speakers for that aviation finance conference, and there are some very big hitters attending from just about every major carrier in the world, so you can be sure that Boeing will be using every opportunity to try and impress those that are there, maybe even to the extent of some flights for the attendees in order to demonstrate it's capabilities more closely.

David086

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2100

EVERETT, Wash., Jan. 12, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) this month will begin the second segment of the 787 Dream Tour, with four stops planned in the U.S. and Ireland.

"The all-new 787 Dreamliner continues to generate tremendous enthusiasm everywhere it flies," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager, 787 program. "We look forward to sharing the Dreamliner's significant innovations with additional airlines, partners and financiers."
The January schedule includes the following stops:

Jan. 20-23: Wichita, Kan., to visit partner Spirit AeroSystems and Boeing employees.

Jan. 23-25: Rockford, Ill., to visit partner Hamilton Sundstrand.

Jan. 25-27: Dublin, Ireland, to visit airline customers, leasing companies, financiers and other stakeholders.

Jan. 27-30: Huntsville, Ala., to visit Boeing employees.
The Dream Tour airplane, ZA003, is outfitted with the 787's special cabin features, including a welcoming entryway, dramatically larger dimmable windows, bigger bins and dynamic LED lighting. The airplane is configured with a luxurious business-class cabin, an overhead crew rest compartment and an economy class section.

Dates and locations for additional tour stops, which are planned through April, will be announced approximately one month in advance. At many of the stops, local media will have the opportunity to participate in tours of the airplane and discussions with Boeing executives and pilots.

For updates on the 787 Dream Tour, including videos, photos and reports from the tour stops, visit www.newairplane.com/787/dreamtour.

ohigg84

Will be EI interested? This could be the gamechanger that could fit into their strategic plans.. Delays on the A350, I hope EI is interested..:D

Tenger

ohigg84 wrote: »

Will be EI interested? This could be the gamechanger that could fit into their strategic plans.. Delays on the A350, I hope EI is interested..:D

HUGE decision to just jump ship from A350 to B787. Remember that due to the 2 year delay on the B787 EIS there is a large backlog of orders. EI expect the A350 in 2015, if they switch to B787 they may still have to wait that long. Their A330 are not old so not really needing replacement for 5-6 years as is.

How is the B787 'the game changer that could fit their strategic plans'?

Both are widebodies designed for longhaul routes, the EI network currently is mid haul. The A350 synchs into the current EI fleet, the B787 doesn't.

lord lucan

Whilst the A350 is over-spec'd for EI the 787 probably isn't the answer either. The 787's fuel efficiency would be of little benefit on EI's DUB-JFK/BOS/ORD routes. It's size and capacity are probably perfect for them but they'd gain nothing compared to what the A333's currently give them.

Being a Boeing fan i'd love to see the Dreamliner in EI colours but i don't see it happening. With an all Airbus fleet i can't see why EI would suddenly move back to Boeing,even if they got favourable terms on the aircraft.

ohigg84

Tenger wrote: »

HUGE decision to just jump ship from A350 to B787. Remember that due to the 2 year delay on the B787 EIS there is a large backlog of orders. EI expect the A350 in 2015, if they switch to B787 they may still have to wait that long. Their A330 are not old so not really needing replacement for 5-6 years as is.

How is the B787 'the game changer that could fit their strategic plans'?

Both are widebodies designed for longhaul routes, the EI network currently is mid haul. The A350 synchs into the current EI fleet, the B787 doesn't.

Very true that, huge backlog of orders, but if Boeing were to ramp up production, like the way they have ramped up the 737 production line from 34 to 38 aircraft per month and this is expected to increase again to 42 aircraft a month by 2015, then this could become a possiblity.

In terms of 'fitting into their strategic plans', I am merely suggesting that, the capacity of the 787 will favour EI, as it won't carry as many passengers as the A350-900, but it could allow EI to open up new destinations in Australia, Asia, the Middle East, where there is a large Irish community. So i'm saying that the 787 offers EI an attractive capacity and payload and range which will ultimately allow EI to expand its' operations to the Southern hemisphere and Middle East..

The 787 is smaller than the A350. Well see what happens when the 787 visits DUB soon.. Muller will be swooed in I reckon.. I hope to see EI ordering these. And.. Look at Emirates, they are becoming more and more frustarated at delays of the A350, they ordered 50 Boeing 777-300ER's, the largest ever order placed by an airline in terms of dollar valuation..

A333 and A332 will be the workhorses, but look at how Austrian changed their fleet by replacing their A342, A332s ans A343s, and retaining the B777 and B767..

ohigg84

lord lucan wrote: »

Whilst the A350 is over-spec'd for EI the 787 probably isn't the answer either. The 787's fuel efficiency would be of little benefit on EI's DUB-JFK/BOS/ORD routes. It's size and capacity are probably perfect for them but they'd gain nothing compared to what the A333's currently give them.

Being a Boeing fan i'd love to see the Dreamliner in EI colours but i don't see it happening. With an all Airbus fleet i can't see why EI would suddenly move back to Boeing,even if they got favourable terms on the aircraft.

Pity Boeing cancelled the B787-3, maybe this a/c would perhaps suit EI for routes such as DUB-BOS and DUB-JFK..

Tenger

ohigg84 wrote: »

......In terms of 'fitting into their strategic plans', I am merely suggesting that, the capacity of the 787 will favour EI, as it won't carry as many passengers as the A350-900, but it could allow EI to open up new destinations in Australia, Asia, the Middle East.......

The 787 is smaller than the A350. Well see what happens when the 787 visits DUB soon.. Muller will be swooed in I reckon....

Mr Mueller has already stated that EI will not be heading East on their own metal. And with EK and EY serving DUB-Middle East I cannot see EI event thinking about that market ever again.

I can't see EI/Mueller being swayed by a quick visit to the Dreamliner while at DUB. I think they may already have had a few meetings with Boeing reps over the last year or two.
EI will retain their A333's. (Source:H1 results 2011)Their young up to date models can operate to LAX/SFO and are smaller than the A359 which can fill seats on JFK/MCO/ORD/BOS.

I do see where you are coming form with the capacity arguement. I just beg to differ in opinion. Time will tell I guess.

ohigg84

Ah well, all we can do now is wait.. I do agree that the A330s (both the -200 and 300) will remain in the fleet for sometime, there are some relatively new airframes in the fleet. (EI-DUO, etc..)

What I acknowledge also though is that a dual fleet policy does work for some carriers. Think Emirates, they operate A330-200s and 777s.
Etihad Airways operates A330-200s ans 777-300ERs too.
Alitalia operates A330-200s and 767-300ERs and 777-200ERs.
Air France operates A330-200s and B777-200ERs/300ERs, of course they also operate the A380 and B747-400, but I'm just referring to twinjets..

So perhaps EI will 'get the best of both worlds' by continually deploying the reliable A330s on the East and West coast U.S Routes, and then using 787s for possible Asian/Australasian/South African routes.Thats just my opinion anyway..

IngazZagni

ohigg84 wrote: »

So perhaps EI will 'get the best of both worlds' by continually deploying the reliable A330s on the East and West coast U.S Routes, and then using 787s for possible Asian/Australasian/South African routes.Thats just my opinion anyway..

I'd say there is zero possibility of that happening. I think they are quite content with the 330's and they are in no rush to add new routes. The west coast wasn't viable for them a few years back so it definitely won't be now with increased fuel costs. They won't touch the far east. Also for a small company, it's a very bad idea to suddenly have two different brands of aircraft in your fleet. The cost base goes up and you have to have separate crews, maintenance etc. Not viable. Bigger companies like BA and Air France-KLM can afford to have some differences but even they would like to see a more streamlined fleet as outlined in their recent 1 Billion euro cost cutting plans.

ohigg84

Good point, I should have thought of that.
Now that you mention it, there aren't many small airlines that operate dual fleets especially for long haul operations.

But I still am hoping on EI to seriously consider the 787.

We have seen some airlines exclusively turn their back on a once faithful fleet from a reputable aircraft manufacturer and turn to somebody else. Look at Air Canada.. A very loyal Airbus customer, that now has disposed of all its A343s and A345s, and is disposing of its A333s, and has now turned to Boeing for 772LR's, 773ER's and 787s.

Of course I'm not sayin that EI will do this, but I just would love to see a 787 in EI colours.

sharkman

Defo coming in , will be parked up near Signature .

radar0976

sharkman wrote: »

Defo coming in , will be parked up near Signature .

Any idea of arrival / departure times yet ?

sharkman

21.30 arrival on 25th and 14.00 departure on 27th.

radar0976

sharkman wrote: »

21.30 arrival on 25th and 14.00 departure on 27th.

Cool, thanks for that.

sparrowcar

Pity about the darkness landing.

dercu

Arrival time 2100-2130. Unloaded on ramp and then getting towed in hangar 6.

sharkman

dercu wrote: »

Arrival time 2100-2130. Unloaded on ramp and then getting towed in hangar 6.

Parking @ Stand 83.

http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Publ...DW_24-2_en.pdf

dercu

Heard the request is put in hangar for access for visitors. Signature are handling it.

dercu

Max wingspan stand 83 is 44.84m. Dreamliner to big for that stand.

Mister Jingles

dercu wrote: »

Heard the request is put in hangar for access for visitors. Signature are handling it.

Does that mean anyone can visit it or only airline/vip people ?

scudzilla

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Does that mean anyone can visit it or only airline/vip people ?

Just wing it, phone them up and tell them your thinking of putting an order in and want to have a little look before ya do ;)

Mister Jingles

scudzilla wrote: »

Just wing it, phone them up and tell them your thinking of putting an order in and want to have a little look before ya do ;)

Don't give up your day job. :rolleyes:

People like yourself who turn people of Boards.......

Dacian

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Does that mean anyone can visit it or only airline/vip people ?

Well Hanger 6 is airside so only DAA passholders will be able to access it. And as Hanger 6 is Aer Lingus I would go so far as to say that only EI staff who work in the hanger and any specific leasing company reps who are getting a tour will have access to it.

dercu

Hangar area in hangar 6 is a restricted area so not all EI staff would have access. I'm sure security will be tightened while its in to stop unauthorized access.

Tenger

dercu wrote: »

Hangar area in hangar 6 is a restricted area so not all EI staff would have access. I'm sure security will be tightened while its in to stop unauthorized access.

Pity it is in H6.
I think it was one time last year....(after Dubai airshow I think) the B787 stopped off in SNN so the crew could do CBP the next morning before flying direct to Everret. There were pics posted here, apparently the Boeing staff were more than happy to allow airport staff to visit their new toy. Quite an experience to be allowed access to a commercial aircraft that was still in the test phase at that time.

dercu

Tenger, I could be wrong and something could be put in place for access. But you got to remember its a working hangar so i'm sure EI don't want randomers walking into hangar as they please.
I hope its opened up and everyone gets a good look around when all the the viewing customers are finished.

Tenger

dercu wrote: »

.....But you got to remember its a working hangar so i'm sure EI don't want randomers walking into hangar as they please....

I completely agree and understand. However I am sure it will be on the ramp for a bit of time, purely to allow 'randomers' to catch a glimpse of the future*.



(*Assuming that the B787 replaces most if not all of the current B757/B767 in service.)

ohigg84

More speculation of the 787 visit to DUB is being discussed at airliners.net forum.
One subscriber who described EI as being once an all Boeing operator, who turned to an all Airbus operator, but who states that Boeing may interpet EI as 'a customer that got away'.

Here is the discussion:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5364508

I hope EI turns to Boeing amid the delays in the A350 program.

L1011

When were EI ever an all-Boeing operator though? The had F27s, F50s, 146s etc during the time they were Boeing longhaul and shorthaul.

ohigg84

MYOB wrote: »

When were EI ever an all-Boeing operator though? The had F27s, F50s, 146s etc during the time they were Boeing longhaul and shorthaul.

Well i'm assuming he meant during the 70s/80s, when EI operated 707s, 737s and 747s, not taking into consideration the 1-11s, S360s etc..

Tenger

MYOB wrote: »

When were EI ever an all-Boeing operator though? The had F27s, F50s, 146s etc during the time they were Boeing longhaul and shorthaul.

And the poster was only quoting what another person on another site said.

scudzilla

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Don't give up your day job. :rolleyes:

People like yourself who turn people of Boards.......

Errrrrr ok then, do you mean that i make a habit of turning people made of boards? How do i turn a board person? Can you give me some hints?

Mister Jingles

scudzilla wrote: »

Errrrrr ok then, do you mean that i make a habit of turning people made of boards? How do i turn a board person? Can you give me some hints?

your smart arse comment !