Connacht in the short term

mr_edge_to_you

Connacht have lost again today. This time it wasn't grasping defeat from the jaws of victory but a comprehensive beating by an average Italian team.

This year despite the high of playing H Cup rugby the season has been appalling for them.

I am by birth a Connacht man but I am weary of hearing the same old drivel about lack of resources been spouted out. All the other provinces have worked damn hard over the years on and off the the pitch to build the teams up professionally.

Connacht is still a professional outfit been funded by the IRFU and I don't think they are using their resources (albeit significantly less than the other provinces) efficiently. They should be capable of producing a rugby team which is not sitting at the bottom of the league.

No one has once publically questioned the coaching team. Connacht have gone backward since Bradley left. The Connacht branch have to start making strong commercial decisions with an aim to keep the professional game in Connacht but what is happening at the moment won't be convincing anyone in Dublin 4 that Connacht are a worthwhile investment.

Elwoods appointment was really just a promotion by default. Don't think he is the right man to bring Connacht further. This season is now a complete write off and supposing an Irish team win the H Cup they will qualify again without any merit whatsoever. Now is the time to review the situation and put a plan in place that will allow Connacht to start the 2012-13 season with some optimism.

porterbelly

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Connacht have lost again today. This time it wasn't grasping defeat from the jaws of victory but a comprehensive beating by an average Italian team.

This year despite the high of playing H Cup rugby the season has been appalling for them.

I am by birth a Connacht man but I am weary of hearing the same old drivel about lack of resources been spouted out. All the other provinces have worked damn hard over the years on and off the the pitch to build the teams up professionally.

Connacht is still a professional outfit been funded by the IRFU and I don't think they are using their resources (albeit significantly less than the other provinces) efficiently. They should be capable of producing a rugby team which is not sitting at the bottom of the league.

No one has once publically questioned the coaching team. Connacht have gone backward since Bradley left. The Connacht branch have to start making strong commercial decisions with an aim to keep the professional game in Connacht but what is happening at the moment won't be convincing anyone in Dublin 4 that Connacht are a worthwhile investment.

Elwoods appointment was really just a promotion by default. Don't think he is the right man to bring Connacht further. This season is now a complete write off and supposing an Irish team win the H Cup they will qualify again without any merit whatsoever. Now is the time to review the situation and put a plan in place that will allow Connacht to start the 2012-13 season with some optimism.

There has to be accountability. Elwood, the coaches and the players have to start taking it on the chin and stop saying we're close, we're getting there. I think we need a clearout of coaches. I'd leave Elwood there in some capacity because his passion for the province at huge but I don't think he's suited as head coach. We should be better drilled, silly mistakes most weeks cost us.

However, funding is a big issue, like it or not. A budget of 2 million is just not big enough to be competitive. Aironi have more than double that. They brought Masi back from the biggest payers in France, Racing Metro, after him being player of the 6 Nations. They have 10-12 internationals, we have how many, 1? Vainikolo. Look at their bench today packed with seasoned internationals.

I hate to harp on about it, because I know everyone is tired of hearing about Connacht's lack of resouces, but it is a factor. While coaching is an issue and needs to be sorted out, until we are properly funded, we won't go far. We have 8-10 players who are at this level, the rest aren't really up to it. 3 of them were injured today. That's what you get with 2 million quid, that's pocket money to Munster and Leinster, never mind Toulouse.

FrPhelimYoung

It's time for the heads to roll. Don't expect anything to happen. The same people are still steering the ship that were there during the Bradley era. He got away with almost 6/7 years of mediocrity and failure.

A "civil service" mentality is rife in the Connacht Branch. They won't rock the boat as this will endanger their own positions. There are other local forces at work anyway that will not endanger the status quo as it will probably cause the ultimate end of their own club.

I lost faith in Connacht years ago when they appointed a school teacher as their CEO. The rot set in from there. Although the new group involved have been successful from the commercial side of things. Remember that Connacht are on a type of deadline with the new arrangements established. I'd say the IRFU boys are secretly sharpening the axe ready for use in 2/3 seasons time and that was the plan all along.

Shelflife

I think that its time to park the poor mouth at the door.

As a Connacht man we have to paddle our own canoe or currach if you will.
by all means gain as much funding as possible but the fact of the matter is we need to become masters of our own destiny.

To be fair this year in spite of our losing run we have played well in the most part with the killer instinct sadly lacking.

we are in year one of a 3 year plan, alot of progress has been made on the pitch and in particular off the pitch.

on the pitch we need to look at basic handling skills and in some cased basic fitness, we have some fine players and some dross and the same can be said for the coaching staff.

simply put we cannot afford to carry players or staff, if they are not producing the basic requirements they have to be jettisoned, im just not sure that eric is ruthless enough to carry this out.

that being said i would be happy to leave him in place for another season as porterbelly said he is 100% connacht.

the whole branch need to work hard to bring local player through the system and to raise as much funds as possible.

Its heartbreaking to follow a team thats constantly losing, but im looking at this year as a stepping stone to better things.

we need to keep the faith and all work harder.

DeDoc

I really don't think you can get too far away from the resources issue. Sure Elwood isn't perfect, but I think he is generally doing ok with the pretty poor hand he is being dealt. This season has been painful, in no small part because instead of being one of the better teams in the Amlin group, you're the 'easy beats' of the Heineken group. The major lesson for me is that you need a bigger squad. Ideally better players, but worst case scenario, simply more players who can come in so there can be some sort of rotation. Todays match just reeked of a tired (emotionally and physically) team.

Certainly more resources will help, but I think first Connacht need to show that they are doing everything they can with the resources they have.
From a national level, you have to think also that we're not making best use of our resources. There are players on the fringes of Ulster, Munster and Leinster who would start at Connacht, but are instead playing A league games in the main with maybe 4/5 appearances for the senior team. In many cases these could be players who'd play 25 games for Connacht.
I'd love to see a season-long loan system - I've posted about this elsewhere. Something like each province getting to ring fence a set amount of players (including NIQ). To start things off, you might make it 30 players, but ideally it would be more like 25. After that, all other players are on the table for a draft system - on a strict rolling one year loan basis - the 'home province' getting first option to recall them at the end of that season. In the event the home team want him the next season they can call him back (as part of their quota of 30), otherwise the 'borrowing' team can have the option of continuing the loan. The 'borrowing' team would pay the players wages while they borrow him, and if you wanted to incentivize/reward development, then you could have an additional small payment to the 'home' team. Academy players would be outside the system entirely.
As a Leinster fan, I'm happy to have increased depth with Carr and Hagan outside out standard 23 HEC lineup, but as an Ireland fan, I'd far rather them playing week-in/week-out with Connacht

CIARAN_BOYLE

DeDoc wrote: »

I really don't think you can get too far away from the resources issue. Sure Elwood isn't perfect, but I think he is generally doing ok with the pretty poor hand he is being dealt. This season has been painful, in no small part because instead of being one of the better teams in the Amlin group, you're the 'easy beats' of the Heineken group. The major lesson for me is that you need a bigger squad. Ideally better players, but worst case scenario, simply more players who can come in so there can be some sort of rotation. Todays match just reeked of a tired (emotionally and physically) team.

Certainly more resources will help, but I think first Connacht need to show that they are doing everything they can with the resources they have.
From a national level, you have to think also that we're not making best use of our resources. There are players on the fringes of Ulster, Munster and Leinster who would start at Connacht, but are instead playing A league games in the main with maybe 4/5 appearances for the senior team. In many cases these could be players who'd play 25 games for Connacht.
I'd love to see a season-long loan system - I've posted about this elsewhere. Something like each province getting to ring fence a set amount of players (including NIQ). To start things off, you might make it 30 players, but ideally it would be more like 25. After that, all other players are on the table for a draft system - on a strict rolling one year loan basis - the 'home province' getting first option to recall them at the end of that season. In the event the home team want him the next season they can call him back (as part of their quota of 30), otherwise the 'borrowing' team can have the option of continuing the loan. The 'borrowing' team would pay the players wages while they borrow him, and if you wanted to incentivize/reward development, then you could have an additional small payment to the 'home' team. Academy players would be outside the system entirely.
As a Leinster fan, I'm happy to have increased depth with Carr and Hagan outside out standard 23 HEC lineup, but as an Ireland fan, I'd far rather them playing week-in/week-out with Connacht

Nothing will work if players don't want to be in Connacht. Carr didn't want to be there any more. He would rather be in Ulster, France, Leinster, or England. Hagan was heading to England when Leinster made an offer for him.

If the players don't want to be there its not an option to send them like what you are talking about

Amazotheamazing

16 of Munster's 23 today was from Munster, 13 of Ulster's 23 was from Ulster, 16 of Leinster's 23 are from Leinster. 5 of Connacht's 23 were from Connacht.

Until Connacht start producing more players (and they are, judging by the u20's), any funding will be a hard sell. It's easy to say "we need funding to keep Connacht player's in Connacht" it's hard when the money is being spent on relatively poor journeymen.

DeDoc

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Nothing will work if players don't want to be in Connacht. Carr didn't want to be there any more. He would rather be in Ulster, France, Leinster, or England. Hagan was heading to England when Leinster made an offer for him.

If the players don't want to be there its not an option to send them like what you are talking about

Both the players you mention went to Connacht because they were well down the order in Leinster, and presumably, they felt they had more to offer than was being perceived. In fairness to both, on the performances of last season, they were right.

I think part of the current problem is that Leinster, Munster and Ulster have about 40-50 in their senior squads - many of whom will play little or no pro level rugby. But it is very black and white - you're either in that (big) group or you're not wanted. If you're note wanted then Connacht may be an option. Otherwise you can continue to live the dream of playing for your home province - whether or not that dream is realistic. Some players - e.g. Jones, Jackman, Costello, Cronin, Flannery have made that journey of their own accord. But many don't. I suspect part of the reason is that they feel they're risking a lot. I'd like to see that sense of risk ameliorated - a temporary loan - its all about the gametime. The players primary contract would still be with their 'home' team - but instead of B&I cup they're playing Rabo and HEC. Surely everyone wins?

bm1993

There definitely needs to be fundamental changes in the way Connacht are structured. Either the IRFU give them the same backing as Leinster, Munster and Ulster, and Connacht become a seriously competitive outfit at both Pro 12 and H Cup level.

Or use Connacht for the development of our brightest talents. Players like Ian Nagle, Jack McGrath, Brendan Macken etc. are great prospects, but need more gametime than they are currently afforded. Let young players go on loan for a year, get 20 games under their belt and go back to their home province a better player. Make sure the proper coaching structures are in place so that young players are both attracted to Connacht and fulfil their potential.

At the moment Connacht really aren't much use to anyone. There are a couple of great talents there like McSharry, Griffin and O'Halloran. But then you have dreadful imports like Fa'fili, Vainikolo and Ah You getting loads of gametime even though they are useless. Even with regard to IQ players like NOC, they are flogging a dead horse. He's never going to be near good enough to play for Ireland at this stage and I would rather see a 21/22 year old (with great potential) be afforded the same gametime. (ie Madigan if he wasn't needed by Leinster).

Marto10

As a man who has grown up with connacht rugby and who has been involved in the underage setup I am getting really frustrated with the performances in the last few games, so we have come close and 'nearly' won, but the game of rugby is to win and gather the 4 points not give an ok performance and say we should have beaten them.

I keep saying that the small budget we have should be put into homegrown players instead of these "journeymen" who played for the nz schools team in 2004.....
Nigel Carlon should have a bigger role in the senior setup and introduce the new and exciting crop of u18,u19,u20 and A players from connacht and other provinces instead of spending money on wages for gob****es like Vainikolo and that henry f'allli lad.

Something needs to be done about the halfbacks aswell, NOC, Jarvis and Nikora just are not good enough, you look at any team that wins matchs and the key players is the 10. Sexton for leinster, O'Gara for Munster, Humpherys for Ulster and ours can't even make a place kick...

I am a proud connacht supporter and have supported in the good and the bad times and I feel at the moment the season will get much worse for us with the next 3 games against tolouse, harlequins and cardiff, they won't be easy and I can't see us getting any points.

padser

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Connacht ..... should be capable of producing a rugby team which is not sitting at the bottom of the league.


Elwoods appointment was really just a promotion by default. Don't think he is the right man to bring Connacht further..

I think you are ignoring the fairly fundamental issue that Conmacht players simply are not good enough to be anywhere other than bottom of the the league - blaming Elwood for this seems a little unfair - I doubt he is turning down opportunities to recruit higher quality players.

Last yr Connachts 6 top performers probably were Carr, Keatley, Hagan, Cronin, Muldoon and McCarthy. They lost 4 of these 6 to other provinces this year and not one is a first choice player at their new province (in fact 2 of them are not even first choice matchday squad players).

I doubt there is a coach in the world who could lift that squad out of bottom 2/3 in league

FrPhelimYoung

FrPhelimYoung wrote: »

It's time for the heads to roll. Don't expect anything to happen. The same people are still steering the ship that were there during the Bradley era. He got away with almost 6/7 years of mediocrity and failure.

A "civil service" mentality is rife in the Connacht Branch. They won't rock the boat as this will endanger their own positions. There are other local forces at work anyway that will not endanger the status quo as it will probably cause the ultimate end of their own club.

I lost faith in Connacht years ago when they appointed a school teacher as their CEO. The rot set in from there. Although the new group involved have been successful from the commercial side of things. Remember that Connacht are on a type of deadline with the new arrangements established. I'd say the IRFU boys are secretly sharpening the axe ready for use in 2/3 seasons time and that was the plan all along.

Agree 100%. This has been what I have hated about Connacht Rugby for years. The blazer mentality is still rife there, too many up there have no purpose and are draining resources out of Connacht Rugby.

Connacht is not a professional club in reality because there seems to be no accountability for results, performances, player recruitment. Bad season after bad season is allowed pass with the blazers happy with a couple of good results every year. Its constant spin about how we were unlucky in some games. We need more resources. Rubbish!

The results that have come off the field have been due to a new board and it has transformed attendances and facilities but on the field things are allowed trundle on as they are with no accountability.

Bradley was never under any internal pressure in all his time with Connacht and in the end had to step away from the job himself. You might get the odd negative media article about the results but a good performance in an interpro or European game and the media had forgotten and were back to talking about Munster or Leinster.

Similarly with Elwood, given his well deserved status in the game imo he could lose 50 in a row and there wouldn't be any internal pressure and thats the problem.

There is no dobut the squad is weak but to some people its as if this happened out of the blue. We all knew back last December the 4 lads were moving on last summer, a massive blow and financial resources could be better but you would seriously wonder who is in charge of recruiting especially in the Southern Hemisphere. Some of the "big name" signings have been awful and its these lads that are eating into the budget. That is why the squad size is small because a huge portion is spent on these lads. Also the Branch and Eric go on about a small squad but there are a number of players brought in who have been just twiddling their thumbs for most of the season bar a few A games. Ok there have been injuries but every team has to make contingency for that and we got Gannon and Tonetti to replace Nolan and Matthews.

One of our only recruitment success stories (McSharry) came to Connacht with his videos looking for a chance.

Resources are slim for us without doubt but Connacht could be doing a lot better if there are proper business decisions made and there is some level of accountability and some on field targets set that have to be met (however low).

profitius

My problem with Elwood is he has played the same team over and over again even though they are knackered. Its crazy. Nobody seems to agree with that view but I stand by it. The more he plays players without resting them the more they'll lose. Its a certainty. Not only tired physically but mentally they must be exhausted too. You can see it in their defense. They are conceding sloppy tries and penalties lately.

Against Aironi they managed 6 points. They missed many chances by making errors at crucial times and made wrong decisions. Aironi are the worst team in the league and thats why people were talking about Connacht beating them.

Marto10 wrote: »

As a man who has grown up with connacht rugby and who has been involved in the underage setup I am getting really frustrated with the performances in the last few games, so we have come close and 'nearly' won, but the game of rugby is to win and gather the 4 points not give an ok performance and say we should have beaten them.

I keep saying that the small budget we have should be put into homegrown players instead of these "journeymen" who played for the nz schools team in 2004.....
Nigel Carlon should have a bigger role in the senior setup and introduce the new and exciting crop of u18,u19,u20 and A players from connacht and other provinces instead of spending money on wages for gob****es like Vainikolo and that henry f'allli lad.

Something needs to be done about the halfbacks aswell, NOC, Jarvis and Nikora just are not good enough, you look at any team that wins matchs and the key players is the 10. Sexton for leinster, O'Gara for Munster, Humpherys for Ulster and ours can't even make a place kick...

I am a proud connacht supporter and have supported in the good and the bad times and I feel at the moment the season will get much worse for us with the next 3 games against tolouse, harlequins and cardiff, they won't be easy and I can't see us getting any points.

I agree fully. Anyone who played underage for NZ seem to be automatically valued higher than they are. At least Connacht do have Connacht players coming through now for the first time in a long time. This will boost the squad in the coming seasons.

Higher

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

16 of Munster's 23 today was from Munster, 13 of Ulster's 23 was from Ulster, 16 of Leinster's 23 are from Leinster. 5 of Connacht's 23 were from Connacht.

Until Connacht start producing more players (and they are, judging by the u20's), any funding will be a hard sell. It's easy to say "we need funding to keep Connacht player's in Connacht" it's hard when the money is being spent on relatively poor journeymen.

Leinster had an All Irish 15. Really promising. Connacht is right now producing more youth players than Ulster and Munster. I reckon they just need more time. They're certainly getting there, some of the young players they're producing right now are nothing short of fantastic.

porterbelly

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

16 of Munster's 23 today was from Munster, 13 of Ulster's 23 was from Ulster, 16 of Leinster's 23 are from Leinster. 5 of Connacht's 23 were from Connacht.

Until Connacht start producing more players (and they are, judging by the u20's), any funding will be a hard sell. It's easy to say "we need funding to keep Connacht player's in Connacht" it's hard when the money is being spent on relatively poor journeymen.

Less schools, less clubs. Populations wise, no contest.

The academy structures in place in Munster, Leinster and Ulster were streets ahead of Connacht in the past, which comes with investment in coaching and alot more with it. We were only permitted 6 or 7 academy contracts over the years, what good is that?

Now that the structures are in place, the rewards will be reaped in the future. A healthy representation of homegrown players in the Irish u20s last season, and 10 have made the cut for the squad this year, that's huge. Way ahead of Munster.

The NIQ situation is a big issue, but one that can be solved with more funding in place. 2 experienced and quality NIQ's could make the world of difference to the team in terms of leadership and bringing standards up.

Higher

Higher wrote: »

Connacht is right now producing more youth players than Ulster and Munster. I reckon they just need more time. They're certainly getting there, some of the young players they're producing right now are nothing short of fantastic.

Fully agree with this, but unfortunately they need something to happen in the short term too. I think that the future's bright for Connacht, but if they're not careful, and losses keep accruing, that there will be issues that will affect the ability of these young players getting time for Connacht.

They need something to happen, and unfortunately the rot might currently be too deep for a quick fix.

They need a few journeymen, Irish journeymen, to tide them over for a bit until they can get the young lads up to speed. I think players like Stephen Keogh should've been given everything they wanted to try get them playing at Connacht for the short term.

They should be looking to get guys in that can do 2/3 seasons in the twilight of their careers that can grind out results, and can coax some life and momentum into the guys around them, whilst providing a buffer and an education for the younger lads.

Connacht should be looking to talk to

Mick O'Driscoll
Peter Stringer
Denis Leamy
Shane Horgan

asap, and anyone else that's starting to struggle to keep up with life at the top in their respective province.

whysomoody

Deleted User wrote: »

Fully agree with this, but unfortunately they need something to happen in the short term too. I think that the future's bright for Connacht, but if they're not careful, and losses keep accruing, that there will be issues that will affect the ability of these young players getting time for Connacht.

They need something to happen, and unfortunately the rot might currently be too deep for a quick fix.

They need a few journeymen, Irish journeymen, to tide them over for a bit until they can get the young lads up to speed. I think players like Stephen Keogh should've been given everything they wanted to try get them playing at Connacht for the short term.

They should be looking to get guys in that can do 2/3 seasons in the twilight of their careers that can grind out results, and can coax some life and momentum into the guys around them, whilst providing a buffer and an education for the younger lads.

Connacht should be looking to talk to

Mick O'Driscoll
Peter Stringer
Denis Leamy
Shane Horgan

asap, and anyone else that's starting to struggle to keep up with life at the top in their respective province.

There is no way Peter Stringer shouldnt be playing in Ireland for Connacht next year.

danthefan

whysomoody wrote: »

There is no way Peter Stringer shouldnt be playing in Ireland for Connacht next year.

Maybe he doesn't want to play for Connacht next year?

Zzippy

danthefan wrote: »

Maybe he doesn't want to play for Connacht next year?

It might be his only option...

Hagz

Zzippy wrote: »

It might be his only option...

Or he could retire. I'm pretty sure he's training to be a pilot so maybe he want's to focus on that. I wish he would go to Connacht.

siltirocker

Word is Nigel Carolan has been approached by Leinster as backs coach. . . that would be a hammer blow to the province if you ask me.

Marto10

siltirocker wrote: »

Word is Nigel Carolan has been approached by Leinster as backs coach. . . that would be a hammer blow to the province if you ask me.

That would ruin future plans for us of course but unless he is offered a more important role within the 1st team I wouldn't blame him in going to Leinster.

porterbelly

That would be a big blow, he's a really good coach, as evidenced by the u20 team he produced this year, they played some fantastic rugby, and the key role he had in the development of the likes of Griffin and O Halloran.

He needs to be given a role in the 1st team, no need to bring in someone like Millard when we have Carolan within the setup already.

Shelflife

unless we win the euromillions there is no short term fix.

we need to drag the blazers into the professional era and i think that the establishment of the new pbg will help in this matter.

we need to get more connacht players coming through and i think that this is happening at the youth level where there seems to be an abundance of players being exposed to the game that up to this had never had the chance.

Having seen quiet a number of u15 and u17 games over the last two years i have to say that there are some fine players on the way if they continue the way they are going

as was said earlier we need targets and if they are not met then we need corrective action, we cant afford to drift along.

we need to make things happen ourselves, im prepared to buy a season ticket and commit my support for the next 2 seasons, by then i would hope that we will see results as in points on the table.

we cant expect too much too soon, a decent platform has been put in place off the pitch this year we need to make the same inroads next year both on and off the pitch.

irishbucsfan

Interesting that Leinster are after a backs coach.

Shame that it has to come from Connacht, as surely they need all the decent coaching they can get.

porterbelly

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Interesting that Leinster are after a backs coach.

Shame that it has to come from Connacht, as surely they need all the decent coaching they can get.

Question is though, are we making the most of Carolan or Millard for that matter? Billy Melrose left last year after only 1 year in Connacht.

Eric is a pretty headstrong and stubborn individual, and essentially from what I've heard, it's his way or the highway. I believe that's the real reason Melrose left. He needs to let the coaches make their imprint on the team and release the reigns a bit. He has enormous passion for Connacht but sometimes that passion isn't channeled in the right direction.

CIARAN_BOYLE

siltirocker wrote: »

Word is Nigel Carolan has been approached by Leinster as backs coach. . . that would be a hammer blow to the province if you ask me.

I wouldn't see Leinster needing a backs coach. Thats Joe Schmidt's speciality, defense coach maybe but no real need for a backs coach imo.

siltirocker

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I wouldn't see Leinster needing a backs coach. Thats Joe Schmidt's speciality, defense coach maybe but no real need for a backs coach imo.

Yea, that was my thoughts. Probably a new role taking a bit from Richie Murphy and a bit from Schmidt.

seanin4711

EE was there when Bradley was there same core coaches that cannot motivate the players now that obvious after the recent run of losses.
Missing players from last season they are gone we have to accept that!
we have what we have!
Its true we are fecked with injuries(so where are all this goodwill from the IRFU and other provinces to free up players that re surplus to requirements???)
I dont honeslty know where a win is going to come from in the short term and very demoralising to see the team "play" the way the did against aironi!

This will do nothing for the fickle west coast punter to spend €20 euro to watch them in the sportsground!

Just when all the rugby worlds eyes were on us for our 1st ever season in the HEC,a competition we were only dreaming about for so long, to fall so dramatically on our asses if bewildering to me and many others!!!

I just dont know!

I honestly do believe that the coaches with their mantra is in no way working at this stage and needs to be overhauled drastically!!!

really hesitating even watching them on the TV Vs Toulouse next week!

irishbucsfan

Could Carolan be coming on as a defense coach perhaps, because that's a void that Leinster need to fill imo.

PhatPiggins

Deleted User wrote: »

Fully agree with this, but unfortunately they need something to happen in the short term too. I think that the future's bright for Connacht, but if they're not careful, and losses keep accruing, that there will be issues that will affect the ability of these young players getting time for Connacht.

They need something to happen, and unfortunately the rot might currently be too deep for a quick fix.

They need a few journeymen, Irish journeymen, to tide them over for a bit until they can get the young lads up to speed. I think players like Stephen Keogh should've been given everything they wanted to try get them playing at Connacht for the short term.

They should be looking to get guys in that can do 2/3 seasons in the twilight of their careers that can grind out results, and can coax some life and momentum into the guys around them, whilst providing a buffer and an education for the younger lads.

Connacht should be looking to talk to

Mick O'Driscoll
Peter Stringer
Denis Leamy
Shane Horgan

asap, and anyone else that's starting to struggle to keep up with life at the top in their respective province.

In the immediate term there should be a short term loan facility between the provinces.

Munster could easily loan them one of Nagle or DOC 2.0
Leinster could easily loan them one of Dom Ryan or Ruddock as well as one of White or Hagan
Ulster could easily take back Niall O Connor :P

ambid

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I wouldn't see Leinster needing a backs coach. Thats Joe Schmidt's speciality, defense coach maybe but no real need for a backs coach imo.

Maybe it's too much being both head coach and backs coach. Thornley said that Schmidt used to play golf once a week to relax at Clermont, but all last season he took only one day off. Maybe he's finding he needs to spread the load a little.

CIARAN_BOYLE

ambid wrote: »

Maybe it's too much being both head coach and backs coach. Thornley said that Schmidt used to play golf once a week to relax at Clermont, but all last season he took only one day off. Maybe he's finding he needs to spread the load a little.

I agree that Joe may do too much, head coach, backs coach and defense coach at Leinster but if he wanted to drop a role I think it should be defense coach because its not something he has experience of before arriving at Leinster. He was a backs coach before and a brilliant one in Clermont.

Anyway if Carolan does come I hope he does well but I think he is doing good job in Connacht and a backs coach isn't needed in Leinster.

leeroybrown

The main issues I see are that Connacht come up short in a few key positions and have a wafer thin squad.

We've lost two starting tight-head props in the last two seasons (Jamie Hagan to Leinster and Robbie Morris to injury) and have struggled in the scrum since. We've mixed and matched there since with Ronan Loughney switching over from his natural side probably being the best fit. It's a very difficult position to recruit for especially on a tight budget so I'm not surprised we've had difficulties there. Any of the other provinces would just have used an expensive NIQ contract to fix the problem.

We lost Keatley at 10 and no one has stepped up. Another very difficult position to recruit for. Niall O'Connor has shown that under pressure his game management and passing struggles. I've a lot of time for Jarvis on the ball but he's clearly changing his kicking action and struggling as a result. We've lost multiple games we should have won this season because of both problems. This isn't helped by the lack of a consistent performance level at scrum half.

Injuries have left us really short numbers on in the second row and openside so we're either throwing very inexperienced players in at the deep end or constantly re-jigging a the second and back row with most of the fit players having to play all of every game.

We've actually played really well in a number of games this season and failed to close them out either because of goal kicking or due to a better more experienced team just edging it. The problem is that the level of commitment you need to give to these 'big' games means that if you're turning up at your next game with essentially the same match day squad and a reluctance to change most of the starting 15 you are going to suffer.

The one other issue I'd point to is individual defensive errors. As a unit we've generally defended reasonably well but we've given up so many tries to simple defensive errors where the defensive system hasn't failed but a player makes a stupid error. It does your head in when you're giving an opposing team two cheap tries then narrowly losing the game.

Personally, I'm not sharpening the knife for Elwood. I think we've actually had a lot of very close run games where the above issues counted against us and we genuinely don't have the squad depth to deal with a competitive Heineken Cup campaign. He does need to look at what he can do to better deal with the few poor performances we've given in games we should have hoped to win such as Opreys (H), Treviso (H), Aironi (A) and also my own personal Connacht hate of rolling over and dying against Ulster twice a season.

For the sake of the league season we should send a very weak side to Toulouse (A) and quite possibly do something similar against Quins (H) even if it'll be quite unpopular.

siltirocker

leeroybrown wrote: »

The main issues I see are that Connacht come up short in a few key positions and have a wafer thin squad.

In a nutshell. I wouldn't change 11 of our starting 15 myself. But key positions and lack of depth cost us.

danthefan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Leinster could easily loan them one of Dom Ryan or Ruddock as well as one of White or Hagan

This makes absolutely no sense.

PhatPiggins

danthefan wrote: »

This makes absolutely no sense.

Leinster don't need 7 props and 9 backrow players. As a centrally contracted system there should be more focus on making the 4 provinces stronger. Leinster/Munster having massive depth in certain positons is good for them (maybe not the player) but I'd rather see the wealth spread around.

My priorities are Irealand,Munster(insert inidividual choice here) and having the other 3 provinces as strong as possible.

I'm sure you'll disagree

Robbo

siltirocker wrote: »

In a nutshell. I wouldn't change 11 of our starting 15 myself. But key positions and lack of depth cost us.

Bingo.

Some other points have been raised about the coaching and fitness. You look at George who came back from Japan overweight having not played through injury. To the best of my knowledge he arrived in Galway in plenty good time to get back into shape, he's only beginning to show this now, in January. Rodney Ah You is only capable of giving it the full gun for 20 minutes or so, Denis Buckley was banjaxed within minutes of coming on against Aironi.

Short term fix? Send an U-20s team to Toulouse; regroup. Give Millard full ownership of the backs and tell him to knock himself out. Persist with Jarvis at 10 but always have a backup kicker on the pitch (Tonetti, Duffy, O'Donoghue). Start promoting the hell out of next year's season tickets because the number sold is going to fall off the edge of a cliff if something clever isn't done.

porterbelly

If recruitment next season isn't on the money we're in trouble because it's Year 2 of the 3 year plan and improvements need to be tangible.

The PGB have come out and said they dropped the ball in terms of recruitment for this season as they were more focused on improvements off the pitch, so hopefully they get it right for next year

profitius

leeroybrown wrote: »

For the sake of the league season we should send a very weak side to Toulouse (A) and quite possibly do something similar against Quins (H) even if it'll be quite unpopular.

They have to rotate their squad. It doesn't matter who is in reserve at least they wouldn't be on this losing run if Elwood properly rotated the squad.

Somebody said that Elwood decided when he came that hes going to play the strongest team no matter what because they don't want to take big loses anymore. So I don't think he'll change at this stage.

JustinDee

Robbo wrote: »

Denis Buckley was banjaxed within minutes of coming on against Aironi

How many of their scrums did Connacht lose in that time? None. No missed tackles either. Job done, I'd say.
Just because somebody looks crook, it doesn't mean they are.

smurphy29

If I hear people saying the likes of Ruddock and Dom Ryan should be getting gametime in Connacht again, I swear to God... Surely we don't need to publish the number of games each has played for leinster in the last 18 months again - they're getting plenty of gametime, and better coaching, in Leinster.

This is where Connacht have to help themselves, and get their own players into the starting team. Indications are this is starting to happen, but of course, it's a slow enough process.

Rebekah Stocky Fiddle has it right - where Connacht should be recruiting is to get some experienced, battle-hardened winners into the team. Mick O'Driscoll would be a marvellous signing. He's got a couple of decent seasons in him and is just the sort of old head that would make the difference in getting them over the wire in tight games. Leamy I feel is a busted flush at this stage, but Stringer would also be a superb signing for them.

porterbelly

Would love to see Stringer and Micko here but in reality I'd say they wouldn't want to come, and it's not like there'll be any financial incentive to come to Connacht either

CIARAN_BOYLE

porterbelly wrote: »

Would love to see Stringer and Micko here but in reality I'd say they wouldn't want to come, and it's not like there'll be any financial incentive to come to Connacht either

both have contracts expiring this season, both are aging and unlikely to be happy with how they are dropping down the pecking order and both are unlikely to leave Ireland due to that tax break.

Not saying it could happen but it might be a situation where its retirement or Connacht. Stringer certainly isnt happy as the third SH down south as evidenced by his loan move to England

DeDoc

The thing is that Ruddock and Ryan are (at best) 5th and 6th choice back-row forwards at Leinster. When the big games roll around, they need an injury to even make the bench. If either one was at Connacht they'd be in every 23 and starting 3/4 games.
Hagan would be first choice (as he was last year) - same with Carr. Again, neither make Leinsters 23 with everyone fit.

It is great for Leinster to have such depth, but it is marginal (at best) as to whether it is better for the players, and it certainly isn't making best use of resources from a national level.

It is all very well for us Leinster fans to turn around and say "develop your own" - but lets be honest - we did very little with Hagan - most of his development came through playing regularly. Carr too. Keatley benefitted massively as a player from starting every week. It was the right move for Felix Jones (if he stopped getting broken) or Niall Ronan to go to Munster for regular game time.
We did nothing to develop Mike Ross, or Reddan or Boss, although they've all probably improved during their time at Leinster.

I'd just like to see a stronger Connacht side, with lots of Irish born players in it - I don't think we (in the other provinces) would have to take much of a short term hit, if it was managed right, and I think we'd all benefit in the medium to long term.

Hagz

DeDoc wrote: »

The thing is that Ruddock and Ryan are (at best) 5th and 6th choice back-row forwards at Leinster. When the big games roll around, they need an injury to even make the bench. If either one was at Connacht they'd be in every 23 and starting 3/4 games.
Hagan would be first choice (as he was last year) - same with Carr. Again, neither make Leinsters 23 with everyone fit.

It is great for Leinster to have such depth, but it is marginal (at best) as to whether it is better for the players, and it certainly isn't making best use of resources from a national level.

It is all very well for us Leinster fans to turn around and say "develop your own" - but lets be honest - we did very little with Hagan - most of his development came through playing regularly. Carr too. Keatley benefitted massively as a player from starting every week. It was the right move for Felix Jones (if he stopped getting broken) or Niall Ronan to go to Munster for regular game time.
We did nothing to develop Mike Ross, or Reddan or Boss, although they've all probably improved during their time at Leinster.

I'd just like to see a stronger Connacht side, with lots of Irish born players in it - I don't think we (in the other provinces) would have to take much of a short term hit, if it was managed right, and I think we'd all benefit in the medium to long term.

The flip side to all of that is that these players want success and want to play for Leinster. Nothing can be done about that.

DeDoc

I disagree that nothing can be done about it. If you took the top 25 or so players in each province, there'd be about another 20 guys out there (lots of them at Leinster) who'd be good enough to be in the Connacht 'top 25'.
If they were (lets come back to the 'how'), Connacht would have the squad, IMO, to be realistically aiming for the top half of the table, and in a good year overtaking one of the other provinces for a place in the HEC, where again, I think they could get to a level of grabbing a few home wins. If the team was competitive at that level, I think more players would be happy to play for them.
One way of beginning to facilitate that, IMO, would be to have a season long loan system for some of the fringe players in the other provinces - go west, get some game time, build your profile and return to the your home province, or stay and continue to get regular gametime. At the moment it largely just seems to be the 'brave' players (e.g. Cronin, Flannery, Keatley etc) who are prepared to do this. The more general perception seems to be that you don't go to Connacht unless you can't cut it elsewhere. I'd prefer to work on changing that perception, so it becomes an opportunity.

siltirocker

I find people are thinking about who the big 3 provinces don't need and should go to Connacht. That for me should not be the case. Would MOD start above Swifty? McCarthy? A fully fit Browne? Probably not. But I think it is imperative that we focus on getting a TH, FH & Winger. We don't need 2nd row players (Swifty, Macca, Gannon, Browne, Nolan, Kearney, etc) or back row (McKeon, Grace, Ofisa, Big George, Muldoon, JOC, Conneely, etc) or Centres (McSharry, Leader, Tonetti, Griffin, etc). Everywhere else is depleted though.

Forget the could've beens (NOC, TJ), the journeymen, the ageing exiles, etc. Giving our youth the chance (O'Halloran, Browne, Griffin), look to the AIL (where we got Carr from), the academy rejects (McSharry, Keatley), Irish u-20's, etc is what we should be doing. Honestly Tonetti aside when is the last time you've heard of a Connacht signing and went 'Ah, very good. He is better than their current options there"?


Saying Connacht doesn't have the squad to compete is one thing. . . but when you don't even have the team that's another.

Hagz

I would imagine that it is beyond difficult to attract young players from Leinster though. Like, Ryan may get less game-time than he would at Connacht, but it should also be noted that he'd probably prefer to be in his situation than be at Connacht. These young Leinster home-grown players don't want to be wearing anything other than blue.

Added to that, if I was Ryan I would be far to nervous to move to Connacht. With the way things are at Leinster, he could spend 2 years in Connacht and suddenly Gilsenan rises up the ranks and he's not wanted back. If one of these young lads leaves, things are so competitive at Leinster that the next guy just fills this gap they've left. Take Madigan, he was (in many people's minds) behind McKinley. McKinley has barely been out of the game a year and Madigan is rushing up the ranks. I would imagine the young players just see it as too much of a risk, to say guys like Keatley are brave is true. Plus many of the young Leinster lads are loving it at the moment, regardless of how much game-time they could be getting elsewhere.

A loan system does sound intriguing and it would give the young players a greater sense of security to know they'd be coming back.

Hagz

TH
FH
WG

Well for one thing, there couldn't BE more wingers at Leinster. There's just too much. Hudson has to be approached by Connacht if they have any sense. I wish Keating had gone west this year and would love for him to move next.

Tight-Head, I can only think of one and that's White. He's only a short term signing at Leinster and might be willing to go west. At least with him you're guaranteed a solid scrum.

I have no idea who Connacht could get at fly-half. Berquist is again a short-term signing so is available for next season. But again, I don't know if he would want to move. I wouldn't encourage Connacht to grab McKinney as I think it's a risk that could land them in the same situation they're in now.

roycon

in the very short term if they can just get someone who can put a high percentage of kicks over the bar they'd have won about 4 of the matches on this losing streak.
looking at players in the ail who are better kickers than noc, mia niakora and jarvis. aidan wynne at ob, niall earls at ucd, james thornton at ucd,brian kingston at ucc

the list is huge. just get somebody/anybody quickly or else force one of the outhalf there already to practice jonny wilkinson style for about 5 hours a day