european holiday with teenagers

christmas2010

I'm looking for ideas for a holiday with two teenagers next June.
I'm thinking of moving between two or three different places maybe around Germany, Estonia or Latvia. Don't want to hire a car so would prefer to have easy train journeys. Maybe somewhere scenic by a lake or in mountains for a couple of days and then maybe two cities. Any suggestions?

donadoni

Going by your description of what your looking for I'd say my own home state Bavaria would be the right place for you. I may be a little biased, coming from there, but I really believe its a great place to spend a week or two. Everything is easily reached by train too.
Could you be a little more precise at what you have in mind for your kids? What do they like? What do you like yourself? I would be happy to show you a couple of places in links. Obviously I know Bavaria very well. There is plenty of mountains and Lakes anyway. Munich, Nuernberg, Passau etc are buzzing cities and the scenery is very variegated (Wineyards in the north, Alps in the south, huge Forests (ie Nationalpark Bavarian Forest), castles, activities for youngsters like huge amusement parks, wild water rafting, skiing in the summer on a glacier (across the border in Austria), climbing and hill walking, swimming in lakes, cycling along rivers (there is a cycling path along the river danube from Passau to Vienna which is class), boattrips or outdoor parks and so on. Let me know if you'd like some more information on some of these things.

Oh and the trains are very cheap if you go for special offers. Just let me know if you would be interested in Bavaria....

undo

If you go with Bavaria as suggested, one of your other destinations is in very easy reach as well: There are two daily direct flights between Munich and Tallinn. Estonia is a great, inexpensive destination. And you will get by perfectly with English. Plus, Ryanair offer direct flights between Tallinn and Dublin, letting you complete your journey easily.

christmas2010

Thanks for replies. yes Bavaria certainly sounds promising. I think the girls would like trips up the mountains in cable cars, swimming and some sight seeing. So if we flew into Munich and spent about two nights there seeing the city where would be a good place to head after that?
I think I would prefer to only have one flight so the next destination would have to be reachable by train.

donadoni

Ok, So here is what I'd recommend to you:

Munich

When in Munich I would recommend, that first of all you do an organised tour of the city, to get an idea what you would like to have a closer look at afterwards.
There is a fantastic and quite unique way of doing this. And its not very expensive either.
Mikes Bike tours is offering a sightseeing tour on bikes in english. It lasts about 5 hours and you are going to all the important sites. I would imagine that city sightseeing can sometimes be rather boring for teenagers. But this is definitely not so.
I am from Munich myself and did the tour when some friends of mine were visiting and I thought it was absolutely fantastic.
I would recommend that you do the Superior Standard tour which costs you about 30 Euro for yourself and 15 Euro for the kids. Its well worth it.
Not only will you get to see everything that is of importance in Munich but the guides are really presenting it all in a fun way. Here is a link to their web site. Have a good look around there, they have a lot else to offer too.
http://www.mikesbiketours.com/munich/

Another thing that I would recommend is that when in Munich and the weather is good (which it usually is at that time of year), instead of going to a restaurant for dinner, go to one of the beergardens. They offer food and drink (non alcoholic too of course, for the kids) but you can also bring your own food, sit down at the tables and enjoy the atmosphere. When I was still in Munich, we often went to a supermarket, bought stuff for a picnic and had it there. Especially in the evening its a very nice atmosphere. Beergardens are, like Pubs in Ireland, where Locals like to spend their evenings and socialize. Its something that you wont find anywhere else in the world.
http://www.muenchen.de/int/en/restaurants/beer-gardens.html

Another place that you may consider visiting when in Munich is the Concentration Camp in Dachau.
Obviously we germans aren't very proud of such sites, but nevertheless it needs to be shown and there needs to be an awareness so that such horrors cant repeat themselves. I dont know what age your girls are but maybe they have learned about the holocaust in school. A visit in Dachau would certainly deepen the impression and give them another lesson in relation to it. I must also say, that some of the pictures and other items of the exhibitions there are very graphic. Just be aware of that.
http://www.kz-gedenkstaette-dachau.de/index-e.html

Two days should be sufficiant for Munich, if you dont plan an in depht exploration.
As for other destinations I would say these places are of interest:

Schwangau with Neuschwanstein castle

Neuschwanstein castle is probably the most famous and best known tourist attraction in Bavaria. IMO its a must see. Unfortunatly this also means, that its rather overrun by tourists and can be a bit of a rip off in terms of admission prices, restaurants, hotels and other things in the area.
My Recommendation would be, if you plan in visiting the castle, which I think you should, that you either extend your stay in Munich for another night and take an organised day tour from there (I think Mikes Bike Tours is actually offering it ) or you go there from any of your other destinations. Its cheaper than spending a night there and being lost and ripped off. If you do it with a tour operator, at least they take care of everything and you dont need to worry. Nevertheless I believe you would miss something if you didn't go there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuschwanstein_Castle

http://www.muenchen.de/int/en/sights/tours/bus-bavaria.html

http://www.mikesbiketours.com/munich/Castle-Tours/neuschwanstein-castle-tours-details.html

I am running out of time writing now, so I will post more information about other destinations in Bavaria later today or tomorrow. Just thought I post this first so that you know that I didn't forget about you
Til later so.....

donadoni

Lets carry on with other destinations in Bavaria:

Garmisch Partenkirchen:

Here is where you can go on cable cars until the cows come home. In fact, that goes for all places in the alps really. There is hardly a village, that doesn't have its own cable car going up on a mountain somewhere.

The highest mountain in Germany is located here, the Zugspitze. You can go up there via cable car or if you like, there is actually a train going up too, believe it or not :-) Its called the Zugspitzbahn (the word bahn is german for train or railway) The train is rather expensive but it not only brings you up the mountain but also to many other destinations in the area, that are worth a visit.

To keep it all simple, this is what I would do:
If your planning in only staying for a day in Garmisch, I would get a Garmisch classic ticket with a family discount. It brings you up the mountain one way and down another. It may not seem like it, but it really covers a whole day, you wont have time for much else. The ticket with family discount costs you 24 Euro (if there is a second parent he/she is also covered) and 4 Euro for the girls each, if they are not 18 yet. If they are older than 18, unfortunately, you cant get the family discount and they have to pay as adults, which makes it a lot more expensive.
http://www.zugspitze.de/en/summer/preise/garmisch-classic/

If your planning in staying a couple of days (which I would recommend), I would get a Zugspitzcard:
It costs you 45 Euro and 25 Euro for the girls each, if they are not 18 yet. There is no family discount, as far as I know, but you get free entry to all the indoor and outdoor swimming pools and parks and you can stay as long and go as often as you want. One return ride per day with all the cable cars, free entry to all the museums in the area, free entry to a very nice climbing garden, where you can practice your climbing skills:-) and free rides on all the public transport in the area.
http://www.zugspitze.de/en/summer/preise/zugspitzcard/

Now in relation to free public transport I better tell you, that I am not sure if that also includes the actual Zugspitzbahn itself. They are kind of seperate, as they are a private company, so I would advice you to go to a Tourist Information Center (they are everywhere there) and find out, so that you dont get into trouble :-)

Here is a summary of other places worth a visit in the area:

Eibsee: Thats a very nice lake ('See' is the german word for lake), where you can swim if the weather permits it. Actually, thats one thing I might just tell you at this stage. You can swim in all of the lakes in Bavaria, that you come across and that I am aware of (with one exception, but we get to that later).
Its generally safe to do so, as long as you stay around the areas that are designated as 'Strand' (Strand is the german word for beach, but these are nothing like sand beaches its mainly just grass, cut short) The water is usually clean but I would still advice you, that you have a shower afterwards in the hotel, so that you dont smell like the local lake of the area for the rest of the day :-)
Eibsee (Lake Eib) is at a rather high attitude, so in June the water could still be quite cold. Depends on the weather really, if its very hot it can be very nice and refreshing to jump in. If you go there, just have a look what the locals do. Most of them would just bring a towel, have their swimming gear on them already underneath their cloth and after swimming just lie on the beach and wait until the Sun has dried them and their swimming gear, so that they can put their normal cloth on again. Dont be looking for changing cabins or anything like that, you wont find them :-)
Swimming in lakes is of course free of charge.
Its a wonderful experience to swim in one of these lakes and very different from swimming in pools. Here is a link to a pic of Eibsee, to give you a bit of an idea what it looks like there:
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/germany/images/eibsee-lake-bavaria-germany$4436-12#content

Its also nice just to go there and walk around the lake. Very relaxing.

Partnach gorge: This is one of the natural beautyspots of the area. Its great if you want to do a bit of safe hillwalking. Now if I say safe, it is of course not a good idea to go there in high heels, but you know that yourself anyway. I would generally say, just make sure that you and the girls bring hiking shoes with you. Its an absolute necessity. Also make sure that you bring a warm jacket and even a woolly hat maybe. Even if its hot in the valley, it can still be freezing up on top of the mountains.
The Partnach gorge can be reached by one of the cable cars, or you can walk up if you feel like it.
Here is a link that gives you an idea what the Partnachgorge is:
http://www.gapa.de/Garmisch-Partenkirchen_Sights_Partnach_Gorge

There are some other things that may be of interest for you so here is a link to the same site, to give you an overview of all things in the area.
http://www.gapa.de/Sights

Once again, I am running out of time. I guess I am just getting a bit carried away with this, but I am getting great craig out of writing about it. Makes me a bit homesick too
If you dont mind, I write about my personal favorite place in Bavaria, Berchtesgaden tomorrow.
If you have any questions about the places so far, feel free to ask me. Is that alright with you?

christmas2010

Donadoni thank you so much for all your help. Everywhere you have described sounds like somewhere I would like to visit.

I'm going to sit down later and follow all your links.:D

donadoni

You are more than welcome. As I said, I am enjoying telling you about these places.

Lets talk about my favorite place in Bavaria, Berchtesgaden.
Its not so much the little town of Berchtesgaden that I like so much but the area there, called Berchtesgadener Land.
The scenery is truly magnificent. But its not only that, its also the tranquility and peace that you find there despite it being just as touristy as Garmisch Partenkirchen. I cant really explain why that is, but thats just how I feel about it, knowing both places very well.

A large part of the area called Berchtesgadener Land is a national park.
The main attraction in this national park is a lake called Koenigsee (Kings Lake). Until now, I was under the impression, that you are not allowed to swim in this lake, thats why I said in an earlier post that there is one lake in Bavaria, where you are not allowed to swim. But I learned today, when browsing the net for links, that it is now permitted. Its still not permitted to use boats with a diesel or petrol engine, only the local fisherman and rescue boats are permitted to do so.
The reason for that was and is, that this lake is part of a project, to see what difference it makes to flora and fauna if its untouched by humans as much as possible.
The Koenigsee and the area around it, is imo the most beautiful place in germany. On a good day the views are truly breathtaking.
The lake is surrounded by mountains, that rise up right at the edge of the lake, which makes it impossible to walk around the lake. The only ways to get to the other side is to climb up a mountain, walk along the mountain range to the other side and climgb back down again (not recommended ) or to take one of the Electric sightseeing boats, sit down and enjoy the ride to the other side.
Half way to the other side, there is an island (or a peninsula to be precise) with a little pilgrimage church and a restaurant and beergarden, where the local fisherman is offering his specialities. IMO its worth it to jump off the boat there for an hour or two, to have a look at the scenery and to taste some fish. I think its very, very tasty.
Here is a photograph, to give you a bit of an imression of the place. You see the Peninsula with the pilgrimage church (St. Bartholomae) and the scenery behind it.
Attachment not found.
After that, you can take another boat (they go about every 20 minutes to half an hour, depending how busy it is) and continue on to the other side, where its getting even more beautiful. A little footpath leads up to another smaller lake called Obersee (Upper lake) which is just unbelievably beautiful. Here is a picture of it:
http://img.fotocommunity.com/photos/4618693.jpg

If you walk around there, you will quickly loose sight of other tourists and hill walkers (if you want) and if you keep your eyes open, you will see plenty of wildlife. I have been there many, many times and I always got a glimps of a snake, newt, toad or wild boar,chamois or grandhog. Its the most wonderful place.

Many montains in the area have cable cars, there are caves and old salt mines that you can have a look at. There is an all year round ice scating facility, you can hire bikes, there is plenty of pools, indoors and outdoors and so on. I would highly recommend this place. I also believe that it is slightly cheaper than Garmisch Partenkirchen and most definitely cheaper than Schwangau with Neuschwanstein castle.
Furthermore, it is not far from Salzburg in Austria, which is a city that is also worth a look. Ryan air is actually going there, if you'd like to consider Salzburg as an alternative to Munich for flying in or out.

I would like to leave it with these two destinations (Garmisch Partenkirchen and Berchtesgaden) as examples for the bavarian alps. There are literally hundreds of places that you could go to. It would go to far to introduce them all here. These are the most famous ones. Once again, I say I woud recommend to you, that you go to Neuschwanstein as a day trip and spend a couple of days in Garmisch or/and Berchtesgaden. Have a look around the internet yourself to see whats there.
I assume that you are not planning to stay any longer than a week or maybe 10days as most people do. If you are thinking of a longer holiday I would also recommend to see places like Passau, Regensburg and the vine yards in frankonia around Wuerzburg or the magnificent town of Rothenburg. I thought I might just show you some You Tube films that show some of the places I introduced to you here. Please let me know how your planning is going and feel free to ask me if you'd like to know some more about a place or if something is unclear.
Here some You tube videos:

Munich:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYTGefXDqqA&feature=related

Neuschwanstein castle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C0sAKsATCk&feature=related

Garmisch Partenkirchen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERmISdhNN00&feature=watch_response

Berchtesgaden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuWNRHyuzH0

other destinations:
Passau:
a magnificent city looking at a history of more than 2000 years and you can sense it there. would be worth a visit if you plan to stay longer than a week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByO7rhJB4KY

Bavarian Forest National park:
If you and/or your girls like nature this is a fantastic place. Look at the video and get an idea what it is all about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cD1SVoTdo

Thats just a little selection of what I found on you tube about places in Bavaria.

Tomorrow I will tell you about how to get around Bavaria cheaply on train and other public transport and would give you an idea, where about these places are.
I cant realy help you in relation to hotels and stuff like that. I wouldn't really know which places are good or not, as I never really stayed in hotels in Bavaria.
One word about the weather.
If your going in June, the likelyhood that you have sunny weather is high. However, there is no guarantee for it. Last year for example they had an unusual wet June and July. But I would say that you would be very unlucky to be confronted with rain all the time. Maybe you get a rainy day or two but its far more likely that in June the sun is cracking stones and you find it even to hot. Nevertheless, Bavaria is not Spain so there is no guarantee for it.
I'll be back tomorrow......

munchkin_utd

donadoni wrote: »

You are more than welcome. As I said, I am enjoying telling you about these places.

Lets talk about my favorite place in Bavaria, Berchtesgaden.
Its not so much the little town of Berchtesgaden that I like so much but the area there, called Berchtesgadener Land.
The scenery is truly magnificent. .....

Also in Berchtesgaden that might interest teenagers

- Documentation Center (on the areas Nazi Past) : free in and very informative, brings history to life that otherwise faaaaar away in Ireland is a very abstract happening. Its walkable from the station.
- eagles nest : guesthouse built by hitler on top of a mountain in a location that only a crazy dictator could come up with! Interesting but maybe not the best bang for your buck considering the special bus up costs 15.50 a head for > 14 year olds. Bus leaves from the Documentation centre.
- Berchtesgaden Saltmines Adventure, also just a short walk from the station/ village. It might be the standout attraction of your visit! You first have to dress like a miner with overalls and that, get the little train into the mine shaft, theres a boat across an underground lake and a wooden slide from one shaft to a lower one. And various stops on the tour with info on mining and the historic importance of salt etc. So fun and informative!

All attractions are featured on the official tourism site here:
http://en.berchtesgadener-land.com/en/live/ennavi/parser,id,5,nodeid,5,back,true,domid,2.html

Also, youre only a short hop to Salzburg in Austria on the hourly train service so you can do a day trip there, or stay there and make Berchtesgaden a day trip.

donadoni

Yes, I forgot about the eagles nest. How could I. The views from up there are nice and it gives you a bit of an insight of a dictators lunacy as well.

I have never been to the Documentation Center as it wasn't there the last time I was in Berchtesgaden more than 10 years ago.

I wanted to let you know about the cheapest way to get around Bavaria on train.
Unless something new and even cheaper came up recently, the cheapest way is to get yourselves a Bayernticket. Up to 5 adults and/or 2 adults with an unlimited number of children (if its their own) can use all trains (accept ICE, thats the very fast one) public transport busses, Underground trains, trams etc. all across Bavaria, for the whole day from 9:00 in the morning. It costs 29 Euro, so it is really cheap.
http://www.bavaria.by/bargains-when-travelling-in-bavaria-db
Trains to the destinations mentioned here, and also many other places in Bavaria go at least every two hours from Munich. Garmisch Partenkirchen is about 1.5 hours from Munich. Berchtesgaden not quite two hours. Neuschwanstein is also about 1.5 to 2 hours on the train.