Pensioners and Intelligence

Drumpot

Have mixed feelings on this topic.

However my overriding feeling is that the state should simply write off the arrears. Why? Because it was because of state negligence and usual wasting of taxes that had led us to this juncture.

Governments and state bodies have shown themselves to be nothing if not good at wasting our money and not running efficient services. When there are Zero ramifications for the kind f cockups we see in state bodies (our regulator during the boom being a prime example) then the focus can be off.

This wasn't spotted supposedly because in the age of ridiculously efficient technology one system didn't match up with another. Wtf.

I personally think that the taxpayer should foot this mistake. Maybe then as voters we will start to keep a closer look at how our taxes are being spent, wasted and mismanaged.

amacachi

Freddie59 wrote: »

But why are you treating pensioners with such disdain, given the amount being bled from the State coffers by the PS and SW bills?

Please.

Everything should be cut and I give it a year before the government finally admits that the CPA will have to go.
The thing to remember is that it's people under 50 (and the younger the moreso) who are going to have to pay back the loans being racked up while we're not allowed to even for a second think about cutting anything to do with pensioners.

amacachi

Drumpot wrote: »

Have mixed feelings on this topic.

However my overriding feeling is that the state should simply write off the arrears. Why? Because it was because of state negligence and usual wasting of taxes that had led us to this juncture.

Governments and state bodies have shown themselves to be nothing if not good at wasting our money and not running efficient services. When there are Zero ramifications for the kind f cockups we see in state bodies (our regulator during the boom being a prime example) then the focus can be off.

This wasn't spotted supposedly because in the age of ridiculously efficient technology one system didn't match up with another. Wtf.

I personally think that the taxpayer should foot this mistake. Maybe then as voters we will start to keep a closer look at how our taxes are being spent, wasted and mismanaged.

It wasn't just a mistake, it has to have been done on purpose. When filling out any forms in the SW and the like you agree that they can share and compare information with other government departments. Everyone laughed at how corrupt the tax collectors and complicit the government were about evasion in Greece, this is the same thing albeit likely on a smaller scale. These checks could have been made at any point, it took political will to do so.

tayto lover

amacachi wrote: »

I agree, let's cut the medical expense. Here's an idea, if someone has an income of over 700 a week we'll take the medical card off them. Sorry, wait, not if they're over 65. Jesus.

Would it not be handier to just have a bit of an auld cull ?

amacachi

tayto lover wrote: »

Would it not be handier to just have a bit of an auld cull ?

Lovely.

saa

Unless I go back to college and retrain even though I will be working on and off for the next number of decades I will only get the basic state pension and I will hope to be on the receiving end of ah the poor pensioner.

but if I do retrain and get TWO pensions save me the concern if I have enough to live decently I will be happy to pay tax on it as I'm happy to pay tax now as long as I can afford a decent quality of life I won't be moaning.

And sure I just don't understand I'm not a pensioner but it seems like no one really understands this hence the confusion, you have to pay tax, big deal.

Freddie59

amacachi wrote: »

Please.

Everything should be cut and I give it a year before the government finally admits that the CPA will have to go.
The thing to remember is that it's people under 50 (and the younger the moreso) who are going to have to pay back the loans being racked up while we're not allowed to even for a second think about cutting anything to do with pensioners.

These are not loans. These are gambling debts incurred by reckless bank lending and the greed of a select few. And the rest of us are expected to pay?

But as long as people see these as "loans" and see pensioners as fair game then there really is no hope for this country.

The loans you speak of are caused by an €18bn deficit - in turn caused by an overly-generous and over-abused welfare system, along with the bloated PS wage bill.

saywhatyousee

Freddie59 wrote: »

These are not loans. These are gambling debts incurred by reckless bank lending and the greed of a select few. And the rest of us are expected to pay?

But as long as people see these as "loans" and see pensioners as fair game then there really is no hope for this country.

The loans you speak of are caused by an €18bn deficit - in turn caused by an overly-generous and over-abused welfare system, along with the bloated PS wage bill.

Along with over generous pension's

professore

Beruthiel wrote: »

They were paying tax on it. They were paying the tax which the Revenue asked for.
Apparently the Revenue miscalculated the amount and are now trying to adjust the error.
Revenue = idiots.

As for your marbles, I'm afraid you can loose them anytime.

Damn It ! As a self-employed person I've been paying my own tax since 2001, I should have not paid anything as it's the Revenue's job to work out how much I owe and ask me to pay it - and if they don't do that then I shouldn't have to pay any back taxes.

Please .... The Revenue are by far and away the most efficient arm of the public sector.

professore

amacachi wrote: »

PRSI is for when someone becomes unemployed, not when they retire.

This is incorrect - being self employed I pay PRSI and the state pension is the only benefit I will receive - in theory anyway. If my business collapses tomorrow - a not unlikely scenario - I am entitled to nothing.

professore

Also I read somewhere that something like 80% of pensioners with a taxable second income/pension were tax compliant already - so this 20% should get away with not paying?

People with second, third and fourth pensions were educated with good careers for the most part and should and do know better, unlike those with just the state pension.

It's a disgrace if they do. That's Ireland for you alright - reward the tax cheats at the expense of everyone else.

Freddie59

saywhatyousee wrote: »

Along with over generous PUBLIC SECTOR pensions

FYP.

professore

It found that 115,000 taxpayers were liable to pay more tax in 2012 either because they had never previously declared their State pension to Revenue; had under-reported their pension; or because the taxpayer’s circumstances had changed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0106/1224309891552.html

Where is the problem??????? How is this different from anyone else?????

saywhatyousee

Freddie59 wrote: »

FYP.

Well you claim social welfare is over generous the OAP is 32 euro more than that.

srsly78

professore wrote: »

This is incorrect - being self employed I pay PRSI and the state pension is the only benefit I will receive - in theory anyway. If my business collapses tomorrow - a not unlikely scenario - I am entitled to nothing.

Incorrect, you get means tested dole same as anyone else with no stamps.

ejmaztec

There's no doubt that some pensioners knew very well that they should have declared everything, but just kept their mouths shut, hoping that the Revenue would never find out. Only the thickest of the thick didn't keep quiet on purpose.

I bet that during the course of this, it will be revealed that quite a few pensions are being paid to dead people, and even more sh1t will hit the fan.

Freddie59

ejmaztec wrote: »

There's no doubt that some pensioners knew very well that they should have declared everything, but just kept their mouths shut, hoping that the Revenue would never find out. Only the thickest of the thick didn't keep quiet on purpose.

I bet that during the course of this, it will be revealed that quite a few pensions are being paid to dead people, and even more sh1t will hit the fan.

Probably right. It's up there with those millions squandered on immigrants who live elsewhere while claiming children's allowance here.

amacachi

Freddie59 wrote: »

These are not loans. These are gambling debts incurred by reckless bank lending and the greed of a select few. And the rest of us are expected to pay?

But as long as people see these as "loans" and see pensioners as fair game then there really is no hope for this country.

The loans you speak of are caused by an €18bn deficit - in turn caused by an overly-generous and over-abused welfare system, along with the bloated PS wage bill.

Who were they loaning the money to? Much of the bailout is indirectly going to pension funds.

Actually even before thinking about the bailout, the only way everything has been paid for for the last 15 years is through and from the BS inflation and debt incurred all along.

I would've loved to see what would've happened without the bailout. I would've been fine but what I really love is that those who whinge the most about bailouts are the ones who would've been worst affected.

AudreyHepburn

Einhard wrote: »

Ummm no. Not when it means that pensioners who can well afford some small cut are being protected at the expense of kids with special educational needs and the like. I really don't think it should be a source of pride that kids with autism receive no support in order to entirely insulate pensioners from economic reality.

The sentimental attitude that so many Irish people have to OAPs is bizarre. It's really not too much that they pay some of the cost of righting the public finances.

Well yes it is to be honest. The OAPs, my four granparents included, have already spent their lives paying for the running of this country and the majority of them would have been retired or nearing when the economy fell so they have little if any part to play in the recession.

Now while there is something to be said meanings testing I don't think it is fair to expect EVERY pensioner to have to lose a chunk of the already small payment they might get.

My two sets of grandparents survive only on one pension between them ( neither Granmother gets a pension). And then they have the various benefits like the medical card etc.

They have spent their lives working hard and paying money to the state. I would take issue with anyone trying to deny them, and others like them, the right to live their golden years in ease and peace.

Freddie59

amacachi wrote: »

Who were they loaning the money to? Much of the bailout is indirectly going to pension funds.

Actually even before thinking about the bailout, the only way everything has been paid for for the last 15 years is through and from the BS inflation and debt incurred all along.

I would've loved to see what would've happened without the bailout. I would've been fine but what I really love is that those who whinge the most about bailouts are the ones who would've been worst affected.

How, precisely, is "most of" this money going to Pension Funds?

Those who "whinge and moan" are actually pointing out the sheer injustice of propping up failed business entities both here and abroad. We can literally have referendums about wiping yer arse here, but a referendum on one of the biggest threats to Ireland, well ya couldn't be having that now Ted. Actually giving people a say in it?

McCruiskeen

Holy **** Batman - some common sense on this issue!!!

Letter in today's Irish Times

But lack of hysteria ain't gonna sell the Sindo

Sir, – As a pensioner, I find some of the present outcry understandable, but a lot of it is unnecessarily hysterical. The fact is that a person who only has a State old age pension does not have to worry about anything nor have they to do anything.

People who have an occupational pension in addition to the State pension may have a tax liability depending on the combined income, but any liability will be calculated in accordance with the normal rules. Those in this category who have declared their State pension don’t have to worry either.

Those who are lucky enough to have a substantial occupational pension as well as the State pension which they have not declared can expect further attention.

I think anyone in this last category who has been receiving an old age pension of nearly €12,000 per year and did not believe it to be taxable was not living in the real world. I should also mention that the State old age pension is exempt from the universal social charge. – Yours, etc,

JOHN MURPHY,
Monaloe Park Road,
Blackrock, Co Dublin.