SaorSat up and running !

fkearney

Hello all, Saorsat up and running since yesterday. Same selection as Saorview but without 3e and TV3. Full 7 day EPG working on all the HD boxes I tested including low cost Ross (from B&Q). The fortecstar passion plus now shows both the 'Freesat' and 'SaorSat' EPG.

NIMAN

Interesting. Can you get this on a Humax Foxsat?

And why the photos of a dish/LNB combo? I thought I was going to see a screenshot of it in action.

fkearney

Images will be the same as on Sky or OTA. What makes Saorsat special is that it uses Ka Band and a very tight beam focused over Ireland. The LNB's are dificult to get and mine is a modified unit from US satellite broadband, hence the photo.

STB

Thanks FKearney,

This will be a good solution for people in bad terrestrial coverage areas (thats for those considering this as a cheaper option).

How much did you pay for the LNB and which one is it ? They should be commercially available soonish and hopefully RTENL will go ahead with carriage after these tests.

The Passion, what software are you running ? Its raptures patch for the Sky EPG grab ? Any chance of a few screen shots of it and the time it takes to grab that EPG data for 7 days ?

MarkK

fkearney wrote: »

The fortecstar passion plus now shows both the 'Freesat' and 'SaorSat' EPG.

Does it show all the channels on the same EPG or do you have to switch into and out of the Freesat EPG?

STB

MarkK wrote: »

Does it show all the channels on the same EPG or do you have to switch into and out of the Freesat EPG?

Foretec passion isnt a Freesat box (Freesat is not just 7 day epg, but also proprietary software that autotunes and has proprietary MHEG menus - Red Button etc). The Fortec Passion just has a software patch that allows you to manually grab the EPG data from the Sky EPG transponder and populate 7 days. Hence my questions Mark.

martin12

What size dish are you using ?.I wonder how tight the footprint is going to be now that the tests have started

yorkie98

martin12 wrote: »

What size dish are you using ?.I wonder how tight the footprint is going to be now that the tests have started

I don't think we will truly know until all neighboring spots on the same frequency are lit up too.

Apogee

@fkearney - There were 2 testcards running during the loop test which corresponded to TV3 and 3e - have those testcards been removed?

STB wrote: »

How much did you pay for the LNB and which one is it ?

It's a Hughes ODU setup used for 2-way sat broadband with the transmit unit removed.

Like this (+ feedhorn)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGHES-NET-1-WATT-ka-nr-SATELLITE-LNB-AMP-FEED-reconditioned-/140671333767?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c0aa3587

watty

FORGET about buying tricky VSAT LNBs

For ORDINARY people, for whom Satellite reception of "anything" isn't a hobby:
Wait and buy the proper domestic LNB and for official RTE announcement unless you like wasting time and money.

The footprints explained:
http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage

Without "interfering" spots it's more than 4 or 5 times tighter than Astra 2D or Astra 1N

With the Interfering spots, any overspill is not much more than DTT (Terrestrial) overspill

Old Article 26th May 2011 http://www.techtir.ie/blogs/watty/rte-kasat-tests


Saorsat is NOT up and running till RTENL or RTE officially say it is.

The title of the thread is totally misleading.

Also if TV3 and 3e are not on it sooner rather than later and a DTT (Saorview) site loses it's feed, then Tv3 and 3e will vanish on DTT from that site but the other channels will be unaffected.

fkearney

Apogee wrote: »

@fkearney - There were 2 testcards running during the loop test which corresponded to TV3 and 3e - have those testcards been removed?




It's a Hughes ODU setup used for 2-way sat broadband with the transmit unit removed.

Like this (+ feedhorn)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGHES-NET-1-WATT-ka-nr-SATELLITE-LNB-AMP-FEED-reconditioned-/140671333767?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c0aa3587

Your correct on the LNB. No slots or test cards for TV3/3e. Some EPG snapshots attached.

liamtech

completely hypothetical but...

If a user had two dishes or two lnbs, one pointing at 9E and the other at 28E..

And a Humax Foxsat running that custom software i read about which allows you to add non freesat channels...

Would such a set up give u...

• Full Freesat services including MHEG5 BBC streams
• Full Freesat EPG with series Link
• Full Saorsat Services with 7 Day EPG
• Full Aertel Digital MHEG5 services

Could this be the ULTIMATE SOLUTION?

watty

Only if Humax change the software a bit, or RTE NL add EPG only info to Freesat EPG.

The MHEG5 ought to work.

Sadly the diseqc only works in non-Freesat mode and non-Freesat stations will not appear on the Freesat EPG.
Time is likely to be 1 hour off during summer

Still, better than a generic combo box.

I think I suggested this back in July 2010?

Apogee

liamtech wrote: »

[*]Full Freesat EPG with series Link
[*]Full Saorsat Services with 7 Day EPG

While you can integrate non-Freesat channels into the Freesat grid with the customised firmware, it apparently won't integrate the EPGs as confirmed by fat-tony.

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

Only if Humax change the software a bit, or RTE NL add EPG only info to Freesat EPG.

The MHEG5 ought to work.

Sadly the diseqc only works in non-Freesat mode and non-Freesat stations will not appear on the Freesat EPG.
Time is likely to be 1 hour off during summer

Still, better than a generic combo box.

With the hacked firmware you can add non-Freesat channels to the EPG. This includes channels on other satellites that require diseq. However, there is a problem with recording. If a non-Freesat channel is recording any Freesat recording will fail.

It would be great if Humax were to do as you suggest. It would be bye bye Sky, in my house. As it is theres no shifting the other Hillels from them. (I mainly use the Freesat box to record content that I want to transfer to mobile devices.)

watty

I can't imagine RTENL paying to put EPG entries on Freesat (which would only work if Diseqc worked in Freesat mode, which it doesn't?).

And of course "governmental" talk of Irish / UK Terrestrial "Harmonisation" for NI is hogwash and may only be related to N.I. mini-mux, a sop for certain people in Belfast.

Hotblack Desiato

Interesting that the EPG programme information entries shown are a lot more detailed than I'm getting on my Triax Saorview box.

(although it did say Nazi's and World War 11 :rolleyes:

muincav

To be honest, if I cant get Saorsat on my existing Freesat set-up, I for one will NOT be bothered! Why get a new sat set up for the crap that is on Irish TV? I get it through saorview and very rarely watch it...But that is just my opinion..:(

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

I can't imagine RTENL paying to put EPG entries on Freesat (which would only work if Diseqc worked in Freesat mode, which it doesn't?).

That's my point, Watty, DISEQ does work in Freesat mode. With the hacked firmware you can change non-Freesat channels to 'Freesat', using the channel editor. These channels can then be viewed in Freesat mode, even if they are on a second satellite where DISEQ is required.

It would appear that all that is required is for the Irish Channels to be put on the Freesat EPG, maybe under the NI Postcode.

MarkK

muincav wrote: »

To be honest, if I cant get Saorsat on my existing Freesat set-up, I for one will NOT be bothered! Why get a new sat set up for the crap that is on Irish TV? I get it through saorview and very rarely watch it...But that is just my opinion..:(

Who is asking you to be "bothered"?

Saorsat is for people who live in areas which can't receive Saorview as the signal is blocked by hills etc.

watty

... Or for people with a Freesat HD PVR that does Diseqc. Much better than two PVRs or a partially compatible Combo box. There are not likely to be any 100% compatible "Freesat HD" Combo PVRs.

If someone already has Freesat, 19E and 13E they have a multifeed system and a simply need to add a Ka-Band LNBF on 4th port. Also because of how Ka-Sat works a single LNBF output works where a Quattro is needed on Ku Band and can be split in 2 or 4 with a Satellite IF spiltter (which doesn't work for Ku Band except on Quattro LNBFs feeding more than one multiswitch).

So it's good for guest houses or hotels with a "Freesat HD" box in each room. However many models of "Freesat HD" box don't have any software support for Diseqc so would be unable to switch between LNBFs for Freesat and Saorsat.

"Sky HD" boxes can't be used at all for Saorsat.

muincav

MarkK wrote: »

Who is asking you to be "bothered"?

Saorsat is for people who live in areas which can't receive Saorview as the signal is blocked by hills etc.

Chill Winston, chill....lol (lock stock)
What I meant was that if it was on the same set-up as Freesat and didnt have to get more sat equipment then fine, but this being Ireland nothing will be made easy and will be just another way to squeeze a few more Euro from us. I do get Saorview but to be honest if there were "hills" blocking the signal I wouldnt be "bothered"......OK...:p

MarkK

muincav wrote: »

What I meant was ...

What makes you think I did not understand you first time round?
There is still nobody asking you to be "bothered"

muincav

MarkK wrote: »

What makes you think I did not understand you first time round?
There is still nobody asking you to be "bothered"

yeah-suppose you are right, but then again nobody is asking you to be an arrogant pr*ck and you are still doing a great job of it..

STB

muincav wrote: »

yeah-suppose you are right, but then again nobody is asking you to be an arrogant pr*ck and you are still doing a great job of it..

Why ? Just Why did you venture in here to do that ?

aare

Ah look, I don't want to wade into a row, but it does seem a bit senseless to me.

Seems to me if the 4 Irish channels had just gone FTA on their existing beams instead of this it would be easier (and cheaper - no need to by a new TV or a Saorview box) for everybody and probably make the Channels worth a lot more in advertising revenue, because suddenly the advertising space would have a UK audience.

Slightly less opportunity to sell Irish made programming to the UK, but given the trend in repeating programs on secondary channels that might not be a big deal...or even a deal at all.

Cú Giobach

muincav wrote: »

Chill Winston, chill....lol (lock stock)
What I meant was that if it was on the same set-up as Freesat and didnt have to get more sat equipment then fine, but this being Ireland nothing will be made easy and will be just another way to squeeze a few more Euro from us. I do get Saorview but to be honest if there were "hills" blocking the signal I wouldnt be "bothered"......OK...:p

Good for you, but your personal viewing choices aren't really of much interest to the world at large.
Being one of the people who can't get Saorview and also having an interest in what goes on in the country that I live in, Saorsat will be quite important to me and others in the same situation.

The Cush

aare wrote: »

Seems to me if the 4 Irish channels had just gone FTA on their existing beams instead of this it would be easier (and cheaper - no need to by a new TV or a Saorview box) for everybody and probably make the Channels worth a lot more in advertising revenue, because suddenly the advertising space would have a UK audience.

Slightly less opportunity to sell Irish made programming to the UK, but given the trend in repeating programs on secondary channels that might not be a big deal...or even a deal at all.

The problem would be the cost of programme rights for a potential audience of 100 million people, whether they choose to watch or not the rights costs would have to be paid in any case - something RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 could not afford.

Do a google search for the cost of programming RTÉ vs. BBC/ITV.

This from RTÉ

Another innovation by RTE is promotion of its satellite option, Saorsat. Some members of the committee will be familiar with the equivalent UK service, Freesat. The BBC, ITV and a number of other companies have put their services on one of the wideband Astra satellites. The services are broadcast unencrypted, or “in the clear” as we call it. The trouble with those wideband satellites is that they have a very big footprint. If RTE were to be put up on a wideband satellite, its services would be in the clear to the UK, France, Holland and many other countries. One might ask why that should not be done, to which I would respond that we do not have the resources to purchase the rights to enable us to broadcast into those countries. We buy programming that allows us to broadcast to 4.5 million people. We do not have the money to broadcast to 100 million people. Therefore, the option taken by the BBC when Freesat was launched is not available to us.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/MAJ/2010/07/14/00003.asp

watty

aare wrote: »

... but it does seem a bit senseless to me.

Only because you haven't read the threads on the subject or researched it.
There is no "row".

Even France uses a Card scheme to limit their channels. Very expensive and not as effective as Saorsat. But it was the only option open to them. Ironically the Ka-Sat spots are too small for France, the cost would be higher as they would have to rent space on 6 to 8 spots making it 6 to 8 times more expensive. http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage

Ireland only needs one Ka-Sat spot. Overspill is similar to Terrestrial overspill, except in N.I. which RTE NL does want to cover for TG4 and RTE. Though a potential problem is TV3 and 3E in N.I.


(Image from above link)

aare wrote: »

Seems to me if the 4 Irish channels had just gone FTA on their existing beams instead of this it would be easier (and cheaper - no need to by a new TV or a Saorview box) for everybody and probably make the Channels worth a lot more in advertising revenue, because suddenly the advertising space would have a UK audience.

Slightly less opportunity to sell Irish made programming to the UK, but given the trend in repeating programs on secondary channels that might not be a big deal...or even a deal at all.

It doesn't work even remotely like that.


I originally assumed that TV3 and 3e would be on Saorview on the same basis as RTE1, RTE2 and TG4. But what if TV3 said "we want it cheaper and also don't care to pay extra for backup feeds to TX sites and full coverage".
We are talking about a TV company that is broke due to a leveraged buyout (such parasitical asset stripping should be illegal) and that have NEVER met the conditions of their licence, due to only paying enough to be on the main RTE NL analogue transmitters. Now with DTT TV3 has about 20% more terrestrial coverage.

Of course if you get Freesat (and ITV) on satellite do you need TV3 and 3E? Stupid decision if they make it.

I think this is why RTE NL will not confirm if TV3 and 3E will be on satellite or not. So they are certainly not going to broadcast them during tests without a TV3 commitment to Digital the same as TG4's

Johnboy1951

I think this is why RTE NL will not confirm if TV3 and 3E will be on satellite or not. So they are certainly not going to broadcast them during tests without a TV3 commitment to Digital the same as TG4's

I would think that RTE NL do not have the right to include them. If so it is not their decision.

If they could include them I believe it would 'encourage' a commitment to Saorsat, as suddenly disappearing on official launch could have very negative consequences for the channel/s themselves.

markj2009

Hi Lads,
I dont have a satellite just an aerial. Just tuned my LG TV to the terrestrial digital services today. It found all of them RTE, TV3 etc. so looked ok but unfortunaltely there is no picture just sound.
The TV is an model number 32 LG 3000 (bought in North)

Does this mean I need to get a separate Saorview receiver, or is the TV itself not capable of doing the job ?

Thanks,
Mark

Dozen Wicked Words

markj2009 wrote: »

Hi Lads,
I dont have a satellite just an aerial. Just tuned my LG TV to the terrestrial digital services today. It found all of them RTE, TV3 etc. so looked ok but unfortunaltely there is no picture just sound.
The TV is an model number 32 LG 3000 (bought in North)

Does this mean I need to get a separate Saorview receiver, or is the TV itself not capable of doing the job ?

Thanks,
Mark

Here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056089348 says your TV is not capable and will need a SetTopBox of some sort but you wont need SaorSat anyway (for which this thread is about), Saorview will do.

MikeSat

When i put the information on my ross hd receiver to tune in saorsat it asks me which polarization V or H. Saorsat is neither so do i leave it on V or H there in no other setting. I am one of the 2% who will have to rely on Saorsat and am hoping it will be up and running for the European soccer in June.At the moment i rely on FTA UK channels

watty

You can't tune your Ross HD receiver to Soarsat yet. You need a different dish (or a 80cm+ dish with adaptor, re-aligned to 19E to give equal Freesat + Saorsat signals) and new Ka-Band LNBF.

Sky/Freesat and Saorsat come from different places in the sky.

It depends on the exact model of LNBF as to what "fake" frequency and polarity you enter. We won't know till the service is live. Saorsat is NOT up and running yet! The LNBF and/or www.saorview.ie and/or www.saortv.info/saorsat will have information when the service is live and the retail domestic Ka-Band LNBFs are on sale.

If the LNBF is fixed polarity, or mechanical selection on install, then H or V will make no difference. Also your receiver has no facility to enter 20.185GHz either. But there will be an equivalent imaginary Ku Frequency 11.xxx GHz depending on what L.O. the LNBF is. The actual Satellite receiver doesn't tune 10.650GHz to 12.7GHz but about 0.950GHz to 2.100GHz no matter if the LNBF frequency is 4GHz, 11GHz or 20GHz bands. Nor does the receiver do H or V, that only selects about 18V or 13V as the power feed, the H &V are LNB features.

MikeSat

Thanks Watty

lobstertoe

All very note interesting stuff, thanks guys. Can you tell me what satellite you are pointing at?

Apogee

Ka-Sat @ 9 deg East

NewHillel

MikeSat wrote: »

When i put the information on my ross hd receiver to tune in saorsat it asks me which polarization V or H. Saorsat is neither so do i leave it on V or H there in no other setting. I am one of the 2% who will have to rely on Saorsat and am hoping it will be up and running for the European soccer in June.At the moment i rely on FTA UK channels

You need a new dish and LNB, see here.