Electricity, heating and cooking

CamperMan

we did try to live completely off grid a while back..

we had a small plot of land up in Leitrim with a mobile home on it, we collected rain water, had the large bank of batteries rigged up to solar panels, a backup generator just in case... gas cooker, diesel heater, gas heater...

the whole setup worked a treat, but after 9 weeks, we left.. the neighbors were very noisy.. so bloody inconsiderate

Grizzly 45

Yeah,yeah,can the laughter!

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/11/14/icyball-is-practical-refrigerator-for-farm-or-camp-use/

and there is a link there on how to build one or two in the article.

colonel-yum-yum

A slight variation of the pocket stove idea, that should be easy enough to run up with the right tools.
http://www.180tack.com/180stove.htm

touts

Time to catch up on this thread. Looks like the government are going to majorly P*** off the Taliban of the public service unions later today. I predict strikes and blackouts by the Summer.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0222/state_assets.html

Khannie

colonel-yum-yum wrote: »

A slight variation of the pocket stove idea, that should be easy enough to run up with the right tools.
http://www.180tack.com/180stove.htm

I got a 404 on that.

baords dyslexic

Khannie wrote: »

I got a 404 on that.

If you go to the home page you get:





180tack.com is undergoing maintenance

colonel-yum-yum

Hmm, must have gone down since yesterday. The site needed an update in fairness, bugs all over the place!

Pat Mustard

Ziboo wrote: »

I had considered alcohol stoves due to their simplicity as an emergency backup if other options were not available, but looking around the shops for a source of fuel, the only thing I am seeing is meths, and it is being sold at an extremely high price for small bottles (approx €6 for 500ml). Could anyone suggest either a location where it could be purchased more economically than the DIY shops or an alternative (cheaper) source of alcohol fuel.

Not an alternative to DIY shops, but Woodies sell 2.5 litre cans of meths for about €18, if memory serves.

eth0

The Mustard wrote: »

Not an alternative to DIY shops, but Woodies sell 2.5 litre cans of meths for about €18, if memory serves.

Jaysus thats a lot. I remember buying E85 for 90c a litre a few years ago, dunno why methylated spirit costs so much, never actually thought it could be expensive cause the e85 was so cheap

Methanol costs a lot but the percentage is very low these days i think

cruizer101

I think one of the main essentials we run off electricity is the fridge and maybe lights. Light can be got from other sources such as lamps and that but refridgeration is a tricky one.

My mum told me how when they used to go camping the got a basin of water in which they sat the milk over which was layed a wet tea towel, once left in a shaded area the evaporation would keep the milk cool. There has been mention of this elsewhere in the thread how evaporation can be used to cool.

In fact thats basically how modern fridges work, they evaporate a refridgerant inside which is then pumped to the back where it loses the heat it absorbed. So the electricity is just driving a pump.

So why not drive the pump in some other way, personally I don't see why some sort of hand operated pump could be used along with a well insulated fridge but thankfully there is another way.

Anyone who has a caravan might be familiar with the fact the fridge can run of electricty or gas. The first time I heard this I couldn't believe it, how could burning gas (creating heat) cause something to cool, was there a mini gas turbine behind the fridge driving a motor, seems a bit complicated.

So I googled, and here was the result.

Heat can be used to drive the refridgerant around the cycle and in fact ingeniusly involves no moving parts (ideal for a SHTF situation as moving parts mean wear and that means repairs, whcih aren't ideal). There is no point in me explaining how it works its explained well in the link, with nice animation and all.

They are designed to run of gas but I'm sure another heat source could eb used easily enough.

These fridges are expensive enough to buy, it may in fact be cheapest to pick one up by buying a whole caravan that has a working one. Some nice bits of electrics in caravans too, inverters and that.

I'm after rambling a bit more than meant to, but thought would be of some interest to some here anyway.

Red Neck Hughie

Ziboo wrote: »

I had considered alcohol stoves due to their simplicity as an emergency backup if other options were not available, but looking around the shops for a source of fuel, the only thing I am seeing is meths, and it is being sold at an extremely high price for small bottles (approx €6 for 500ml). Could anyone suggest either a location where it could be purchased more economically than the DIY shops or an alternative (cheaper) source of alcohol fuel.

Cheaper Alcohol.. throw some potato skins or basically anything with carbs into a plastic bag with water and tie it off, some time later you get alcohol. The more sugary stuff you put in the more alcohol you get out.

Easy electricity.. 1 take a cheap battery drill, remove the battery
2 wrap some paracord around the chuck (many times)
3 connect a torch light between the terminals where the
battery terminals would have been (you might need a
little wire or even a paperclip if youre stuck
4 pull the cord hard and the bulb will light
When you do this once you'll see how important wind/water/bicycle electricity might be post shtf

The basic motor has no semiconductor ****e thats vulnerable to emp either..

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse

Hey Guys, just checking if you ye have or know anyone who has built log/wood cabins to ilive in say 25 by 20 foot???
Is there ways around the planning permission side etc???

Doc Ruby

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

Hey Guys, just checking if you ye have or know anyone who has built log/wood cabins to ilive in say 25 by 20 foot???
Is there ways around the planning permission side etc???

I don't think you need planning if its a temporary structure like a portacabin, so maybe just don't dig foundations and tie it down or something?

Tabnabs

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

Hey Guys, just checking if you ye have or know anyone who has built log/wood cabins to ilive in say 25 by 20 foot???
Is there ways around the planning permission side etc???

Be worth asking in the Actually you did...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056597817

eth0

Do they still make these? Great yokes, fit onto a regular 11.34kg butane cylinder and no messing around with tubes or separate regulators.

baords dyslexic

Have one myself aquired when someone was clearing out there garage and was looking to post something about them but when I couldn't find a pic on google let alone anyone selling them anywhere I decided not to.

baords dyslexic

Forgot to agree with eth0 they are "Great Yokes" :cool:.

We have plenty of other gas stoves, home kitchen, in caravan and in one of the sheds so I don't use it much but have used it for checking if there's anything left in a gas bottle. Sometimes a bottle thats empty as far as the caravan stove is concerned will still have enough gas to run the single burner for quite a while (at least enough for a brew) so might be useful SHTF for getting the last bit of use out of otherwise empty bottles, before you get the hacksaw out and turn them into a woodburning stove.

eth0

baords dyslexic wrote: »

Forgot to agree with eth0 they are "Great Yokes" :cool:.

We have plenty of other gas stoves, home kitchen, in caravan and in one of the sheds so I don't use it much but have used it for checking if there's anything left in a gas bottle.

I always use a match for that. Not a lighting one of course, used to be mad for doing this when i was a wee lad cause I liked the smell of the gas until i was caught and told it wasn't too healthy.


another thing we used have was a very small gas cylinder - about 1kg or less with the same connector as the big ones and some sort of adaptor that you could fill the small cylinder from the big one. No idea where they are gone though, probably got rid of

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse

yes tabnabs i did, tryn to get info off as many people as possible or find someone in a similiar position.

bonniebede

Maybe this is not news, it has only caught my eye. It's a polystyrene bead filled bag which acts like a slowcooker once heated food is placed in it.

http://nb-wonderbag.com/content/what-wonderbag

It reminds me that my Dad used to talk about cookng stews in a barrel of sawdust during the emergency, same principle. I'm a slow cooker fan, so it caught my eye.

You have to bring it to the boil first, but I'm thinking a rocket stove could do that with a handful of twigs, then pop it into the wonderbag and hey presto, a whole pot of food cooked for little fuel.

Then i was thinking how much could it cost to make?

And lo and behold someone was there before me.

http://thermalcooker.wordpress.com/category/wonder-box/

You could buy bean bag filler,

http://www.beanbagshop.ie/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_naru.tpl&product_id=4&Itemid=1

but the suggestion above is to make your own free by grating solid polystyrene from packing. We used to spend ours doing this as kids, we called it artificial snow. If you don't have packing to hand, I pick it up free at our local electrical retailer, where it is dumped in a big skip with other waste products. (I use it in patio planters instead of gravel for lightness). Now all I need is a bribable 6 year old, hmm.

also nice instructions for making it here.

http://www.iwillprepare.com/cooking_files/Wonder_Box.htm

baords dyslexic

Why do I always have a different name for stuff? First thing that crossed my mind was Hay Box Cooker.

I liked this modern idea of using a freezer box and shredded paper. Might also be a suitable use for an old fridge come SHTF.

Another thought if you ask in your local supermarket they might save you a couple of
Polystyrene Fish Boxes (they wash out and any smell goes) then job half done.

eth0

Found out the little gas cookers have indeed been banned. A lad in a shop selling the 1-burner yokes that have a hose and sit beside the cylinder are the only ones around. Some sort of safety thing but I cant imagine what it would be

Maybe someone tried to turn theirs down when stuff was boiling over the side of the pan and scalded their hand and called up Joe Duffy over it instead of taking the blame for it themselves

Edit: They are actually for sale in some countries but not with the 35mm Jumbo gas connector they use over here

lockon...

johngalway wrote: »

I am still interested in the power generation via wood burning idea. If there was a way to incorporate all the things wood can do, heat, cooking, hot water, and power, into one contraption...

It can be done - using a thermoelectric generator.



Put the generator plate on the bottom side of a pot, place over a fire and boil water. The difference in tempeture between the two sides of the plate will generate electricity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1A5qc872Ks

ShadowFox

Ive just moved out of my house for 3 months while I get an extension built which im getting a range cooker/fire in so i can switch from gas to it for heating and cooking Im also getting under floor heating put in and solar panels and just to annoy the plumber im getting the downstairs loo to work off a 1000lt butt barrel with a tap on the pipe to switch to mains if needed Im going to try get the washing machine to work off another 1000lt butt hopefully

GY A1

pulled up this thread as electricity supply maybe a concern in the near future,

well i have a gas hob which would suffice for majority of cooking and water heating,
have a stove that heats house and rads,
my concern would be running stove without electricity powering circulation pump,
if needed could i use a battery to keep pump going for few hours per day,

The Glass Key

GY A1 wrote: »

pulled up this thread as electricity supply maybe a concern in the near future,

well i have a gas hob which would suffice for majority of cooking and water heating,
have a stove that heats house and rads,
my concern would be running stove without electricity powering circulation pump,
if needed could i use a battery to keep pump going for few hours per day,

You could wire the pump and its thermostats so that instead of being hard wired it all uses one 13amp plug, then during a power cut you can unplug the circuit and plug it into an inverter connected to your battery back up.

Now that may be very bad wiring practice and you'd have to size your battery according to the size of your pump which might make the project unfeasible if the power requirements are too high.

Mr Google indicates your not the only one with the idea http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=108372 and that at around 50-70Watts the project is possible. Don't however forget you may need to power any valves and thermostats on the system or you pump may not be doing its job. You can get away with powering just the pump as even if the off position of the valves is closed then you can normally manually open them.