What Computer language for writing phone apps?

_AVALANCHE_

I want to write one and make squillions, which language do I need?

Is Phyton a good starting point??

MiniNukinfuts

Focus on the two main ones, android and iOS.

Android uses java and iOS uses objective-C. I'd say they'd be a good place to start.

chin_grin

Found this if you want to have a look.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/write-google-android-application/

_AVALANCHE_

Christ!!:eek:

Is it possible to learn this stuff by yourself??

I think a book on Java is a good starting point, I'll try and get one tomorrow.

Thanks lads.

MiniNukinfuts

Yeah, completely possible to do so. There are heaps of online tutorials around for both languages. I have learned iOS development on my own outside of college. I used tutorials that i found online. A useful place to start would be here. He has a load of tutorials on most languages.

Or if you really want to get an in depth knowledge of iOS development try watching the Stanford University iOS development classes found on the podcast store on itunes. There are 23 videos, they are ranging from about 40min to 70 min in length each.

G-Money

I'm not 100% sure on this so best to check it out, but as far as I know you can only develop iOS applications on a Mac, you can't develop them on Windows for iOS. So I'm guessing the platform you develop for will be limited to what system you currently have. Unless you are planning to pay for a new machine.

yoyo

I think this thread is more suited to the Development forum so I'll move it there

Nick

Corkfeen

G-Money wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure on this so best to check it out, but as far as I know you can only develop iOS applications on a Mac, you can't develop them on Windows for iOS. So I'm guessing the platform you develop for will be limited to what system you currently have. Unless you are planning to pay for a new machine.

Nope, you can develop for IOS on windows...

yoyo

Corkfeen wrote: »

Nope, you can develop for IOS on windows...

But not legally.

Nick

Jim2007

_AVALANCHE_ wrote: »

I want to write one and make squillions, which language do I need?

Is Phyton a good starting point??

I've been evaluating LiveCode over the past few weeks as a cross platform tool for mobile apps and I must say it looks good. It uses a HyperCard development model, which works well with mobile devices, but the language is a bit wordy.

I'm not a fan of it, but I do have to admit that it works and it means that we don't have to maintain multiple code bases. You will need the vendor sdks as well, because LiveCode needs them to compile the apps.

DjFlin

Windows Phone 7 might be worth looking into. The XNA framework it uses works on Xbox 360, so games you make can be published on Xbox Live too.
Plus, if you're a student Microsoft provide a lot of free resources.

MiniNukinfuts

Yup, we (students) get free windows developer licenses. It could be worth a look into, but if you want to make squillions, start with either android or iOS, more money in those markets.

Maestro84

MiniNukinfuts wrote: »

Yeah, completely possible to do so. There are heaps of online tutorials around for both languages. I have learned iOS development on my own outside of college. I used tutorials that i found online. A useful place to start would be here. He has a load of tutorials on most languages.

Or if you really want to get an in depth knowledge of iOS development try watching the Stanford University iOS development classes found on the podcast store on itunes. There are 23 videos, they are ranging from about 40min to 70 min in length each.

Hi, I was looking for the Stanford classes on the iTunes store and could not find it anywhere. Any chance of a link so I can upload them to my iPhone?

MiniNukinfuts

Here's the one i download and am using: here but i'm sure there is an update version of them somewhere. The fall 2011 classes.

Jim2007

DjFlin wrote: »

Windows Phone 7 might be worth looking into. The XNA framework it uses works on Xbox 360, so games you make can be published on Xbox Live too.
Plus, if you're a student Microsoft provide a lot of free resources.

Yes but can MS considered a serious player in this space???

The Corinthian

_AVALANCHE_ wrote: »

I want to write one and make squillions, which language do I need?

If that is your motivation, then I suggest you don't bother learning how to develop them. Both the Android Market and iPhone Appstore are full of apps with few, if any downloads. Many of these are good apps, but the developers have failed to implement a viable pricing or other revenue model and, most commonly, don't know how to market the app. As a result, all but about 2% of apps make little or no money; certainly very few, if any, are making 'squillions'.

If you want to learn something, I suggest you learn the dark arts of app marketing. There are far fewer out there with knowledge in that than the techie side of things, so if you can come to the table with that skill, you should be able to partner up with a developer without too much difficulty.

suspectdevice

Jim2007 wrote: »

Yes but can MS considered a serious player in this space???

Sure they can. Microsoft will take a huge share of the market.

What do you think?

The Corinthian

suspectdevice wrote: »

Sure they can. Microsoft will take a huge share of the market.

What do you think?

I think it is still too early to say. It comes down to the next year and if their gambit with Nokia pays off. MS is not as powerful as it once was and in the mobile sphere, they've not done well in the past.

suspectdevice

OK. I can see why their current mobile position doesn't make sense of them being successful but they are the masters of leverage. They own the desktop, they own the servers to a large extent. And Enterprise is the next battlefield. RIM have messed up. Apple are not to be trusted in that space and Android is too fragmented. Of these RIM are the only one with any enterprise cred and that has been eroded with their outages and delays in product release cycles. I read recently that the vast majority of mobile developers are happy with winphone 7.5 and are focussing on it for the next wave of revenue.

The Corinthian

I'm not suggesting they'll not pull it off, only that it's probably too early to say. Nice analysis, nonetheless.

suspectdevice

they are powerful enough to pull it off

Atomic Pineapple

Been looking at WP lately myself and playing with a Lumnia and while the device and OS are better than expected it still feels somewhat off the pace when compared to iOS or Android.

Sure there's a bit of a void in the enterprise area when it comes to smart phones but MS's history in the mobile sector is poor, I can see them carving out a small percentage of the smart phone market anyway and depending on Nokia's device's maybe a bit more.

suspectdevice

I can see MS with a reasonable % of the consumer phone market from an OS perspective. 20% + is realistic. Android OS providers are having difficulty differentiating and it feels like its heading in the direction of Linux in the Redhat days. Also, Google's desire to provide a free OS that results in search is where it's focus is and that might be fine for consumers but not Enterprise. This wave of technology on mobile, if the big players do the right thing with confidence, Google could be displaced and won't enjoy the same dominance that they do currently on the web.

Apple will shrink and stabilise in the same way they did on desktop and laptops.

The Corinthian

As of 2011 Q3, Microsoft had a 1.5% share of the smartphone market. At the same time, RIM and Symbian had 11.0% and 16.9% respectively; down from Q2 by 0.7% and 5.2% respectively. Early days for MS as it was before the launch of the Lumnia.

WM7 will almost certainly eat up a good portion of the Symbian market, comprised of users who will stick with Nokia, regardless of OS, but RIM is another matter. Enterprise is certainly an enticing market, but the Lumnia is not an enterprise smartphone - it's a consumer phone.

Until it can crack that nut, all WM7 is offering is an alternative for consumers to iOS and Android - and there is demand for that as RIM discovered in the UK. Additionally it will naturally mop up a large part of the dwindling Symbian market and so may claw itself up to around 10% market share (as comparison iOS had 15.0% share in 2011 Q3).

If they can enter the enterprise space successfully, then 20% (which by coincidence was RIM's 2009 peak) might well be realistic.

All of which presume that neither Apple nor Google screw up along the way, as RIM has. Or that MS or Nokia do so. That could throw all of the above predictions out the window.

Sources: Gartner

The Corinthian

draffodx wrote: »

Sure there's a bit of a void in the enterprise area when it comes to smart phones but MS's history in the mobile sector is poor

Their history in mobile has been a disaster. I remember two MS salespeople trying to flog me some Mobile Internet Server, or somesuch, in 2000 which after some examination turned out to be little more than IIS with the WAP MIME types pre-configured.

This experience gave me the impression that MS didn't really have a mobile strategy, which in many respects is borne out by the aimless and often contradictory directions that Windows Mobile took before finally being replaced with WM7. I remember them dropping touch screen support there around 2005 (memory is fuzzy, so I could be wrong) because they did not see a future in it.

Given this they were just as bad with the Internet, up until Windows 95. They realized this, admitted that they were behind the pack, and got their act together and within four years IE had eclipsed Netscape. Whether they can repeat this performance is another matter though.

suspectdevice

The Corinthian wrote: »

As of 2011 Q3, Microsoft had a 1.5% share of the smartphone market. At the same time, RIM and Symbian had 11.0% and 16.9% respectively; down from Q2 by 0.7% and 5.2% respectively. Early days for MS as it was before the launch of the Lumnia.

WM7 will almost certainly eat up a good portion of the Symbian market, comprised of users who will stick with Nokia, regardless of OS, but RIM is another matter. Enterprise is certainly an enticing market, but the Lumnia is not an enterprise smartphone - it's a consumer phone.

Until it can crack that nut, all WM7 is offering is an alternative for consumers to iOS and Android - and there is demand for that as RIM discovered in the UK. Additionally it will naturally mop up a large part of the dwindling Symbian market and so may claw itself up to around 10% market share (as comparison iOS had 15.0% share in 2011 Q3).

If they can enter the enterprise space successfully, then 20% (which by coincidence was RIM's 2009 peak) might well be realistic.

All of which presume that neither Apple nor Google screw up along the way, as RIM has. Or that MS or Nokia do so. That could throw all of the above predictions out the window.

Sources: Gartner

cool numbers.

Certainly RIM are focussing on consumer and kids for now. It is where all their effort is. But they still standalone as the one with hardware, OS and service levels and that is a tough one to maintain. As we have seen any of these can pull them down.

What do you think about the prospect of Nokia buying them? Maybe with a view to spinning out the OS to MS and keeping the hardware and services for themselves. Certainly no better time.

The Corinthian

suspectdevice wrote: »

What do you think about the prospect of Nokia buying them? Maybe with a view to spinning out the OS to MS and keeping the hardware and services for themselves. Certainly no better time.

My guess is that someone is going to, or try to, buy RIM principally to grab their market share in enterprise with a view to migrating it to their OS and services (everyone's got their own cloud nowadays, after all).

previous user

Is Objective -C easy to learn,
I know html and CSS (don't laugh). and I can do websites, but I'd be really interested in developing some simple games for iphone apps on the side as well.

Kavrocks

previous user wrote: »

Is Objective -C easy to learn

That's a very relative question.

Something that is easy to one person may be extremely hard to the next. I could tell you I found Quantum Mechanics a very easy subject to learn in school whilst you could find it extremely hard.

The best way to learn a programming language I feel is to do it by writing code which means you need a project or loads of little projects which you want to complete. As well as that you will need a good resource. One that I've seen recommended a lot is The New Boston.

previous user

Kavrocks wrote: »

That's a very relative question.

Something that is easy to one person may be extremely hard to the next. I could tell you I found Quantum Mechanics a very easy subject to learn in school whilst you could find it extremely hard.

The best way to learn a programming language I feel is to do it by writing code which means you need a project or loads of little projects which you want to complete. As well as that you will need a good resource. One that I've seen recommended a lot is The New Boston.

Thanks again, I'll have a look at that link.

imitation

IMO Windows mobile may be a good place to start from scratch, as if you are starting app development from scratch not only do you need to learn the basics of the language, you'll need to Learn an IDE and the phone specifics. Put them all together and you have a serious learning curve.

Visual Studio is the easiest IDE to grasp imo and should give you the least hassle to install and debug on. Intellisense should make figuring out what classes do a bit easier.

I wouldn't go in with the attitude of making squillions, its just not going to happen, but you may pick up some really useful skills.

The Corinthian

Kavrocks wrote: »

I could tell you I found Quantum Mechanics a very easy subject to learn in school whilst you could find it extremely hard.

When did they start doing that in secondary school? Surely you don't mean calculating half-lives - it would be exaggerating a bit to say they're teaching quantum mechanics.

Kavrocks

The Corinthian wrote: »

When did they start doing that in secondary school? Surely you don't mean calculating half-lives - it would be exaggerating a bit to say they're teaching quantum mechanics.

It was an example, nothing more.

previous user

imitation wrote: »

IMO Windows mobile may be a good place to start from scratch, as if you are starting app development from scratch not only do you need to learn the basics of the language, you'll need to Learn an IDE and the phone specifics. Put them all together and you have a serious learning curve.

Visual Studio is the easiest IDE to grasp imo and should give you the least hassle to install and debug on. Intellisense should make figuring out what classes do a bit easier.

I wouldn't go in with the attitude of making squillions, its just not going to happen, but you may pick up some really useful skills.

Yeh, I know, I like gaming and I just thought it would be great to actually create a game for the iphone or something like that.

Tom Dunne

previous user wrote: »

Is Objective -C easy to learn,
I know html and CSS (don't laugh). and I can do websites, but I'd be really interested in developing some simple games for iphone apps on the side as well.

I have taught an introductory, 6-week course on iOS development, I can say that students found it quite difficult. They had already studied Java but found the jump to OSX, xCode and Objective-C very challenging.

It requires determination and, ideally, previous solid programming experience.

ozmo

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I have taught an introductory, 6-week course on iOS development, I can say that students found it quite difficult. They had already studied Java but found the jump to OSX, xCode and Objective-C very challenging.

It requires determination and, ideally, previous solid programming experience.

Yes - in order of difficulty I would but
* IPhone development using ObjectiveC - very tricky to get into - but best market for selling apps.
* Java development on Android - a fair bit easier - but I don't like the tools.
* C# on a windows platform - Easiest and nicest tools - but currently a more limited market for apps - might change soon.


However there is an alternative - you can write apps in HTML and javascript for the IPhone - they look just like normal apps.
They would then require a internet connection to use them - but it works very well - and might be a good place to start.
You can write them in windows (any text editor) and test with safari - no need compile - and you can wrap the html in a simple app that Apple provide to give it a "Downloadable" look.

Here is one such HTML and Javascript application for the IPhone - quite a good one - written by Microsoft !

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-11-29/tech/30453487_1_windows-phone-app-android

(oh - that article doesnt show the wrapping of the html app in an app - but when you do the browser title bar goes away - you can also get rid of the title bars by manually Selecting "Save to Desktop" on the IPhone )

mwrf

Following on from ozmo,

Have a look at Sencha Touch
http://www.sencha.com/products/touch
You can target Android, iOS and others

With the HTML5 Cache Manifest or other solutions such as phonegap your application does not need to have an internet connection.

Dave!

Lads anyone know how to go about developing iOS apps on Windows?

PM me if necessary!

Atomic Pineapple

Dave! wrote: »

Lads anyone know how to go about developing iOS apps on Windows?

PM me if necessary!

You'll need a virtual box running a virtual Mac environment to run XCode, even at that though I've been led to believe that Apple can find out it was developed this way and may still block it from the App store.

Been looking to get into personal iOS dev myself and can't afford a personal MAC either but have used the virtual environment and it's a right pain!

Dave!

Yeah I can imagine, bit too much hassle from what I gather

Atomic Pineapple

Dave! wrote: »

Yeah I can imagine, bit too much hassle from what I gather

Well it is for me as I just want to make a small personal app to showcase my knowledge of iOS in terms of a portfolio/CV but if you have a potential genius idea for an app it might be different

/Off to adverts to check second hand MAC prices!

The Corinthian

Dave! wrote: »

Lads anyone know how to go about developing iOS apps on Windows?

Look at making your machine dual boot with MacOS as one of the options - cheaper than a second hand Mac, TBH.

Tom Dunne

You might want to look at http://www.macincloud.com/

It's a Mac, in the cloud. You access it via Remote Desktop.

Giblet

I use VMWare.

Dave!

Lots of options there Found some after Googling too... Any kind of consensus on what would be the best option? Are they all pretty messy?

VMWare or dual boot would seem the 'cleanest' options

edit

Doing a web app and using PhoneGap to house it seems another popular options. Are there any 'big' or successful apps that do this? Or is it just an option for those of us too cheap to buy a Mac!

FWIW, I've got an old iBook G4 that I bought about 6 years ago. It's an absolute dog, so I wouldn't fancy doing any kind of hardcode development on it, but I could probs use it to submit the app to the app store? It's running OS X

mwrf

Dave! wrote: »

Lots of options there Found some after Googling too... Any kind of consensus on what would be the best option? Are they all pretty messy?

VMWare or dual boot would seem the 'cleanest' options

edit

Doing a web app and using PhoneGap to house it seems another popular options. Are there any 'big' or successful apps that do this? Or is it just an option for those of us too cheap to buy a Mac!

FWIW, I've got an old iBook G4 that I bought about 6 years ago. It's an absolute dog, so I wouldn't fancy doing any kind of hardcode development on it, but I could probs use it to submit the app to the app store? It's running OS X

Yes, there are lots of "big" successful web apps using phonegap. Some examples here:
http://phonegap.com/apps/?sort=all

shanemangan

Some sites I've used in the past and reference now and again for coding...

http://www.w3schools.com/

http://www.codecademy.com/

http://code.google.com/