Whistle training

eoinburke67

Was pointed here by asking about dog whistles. Is there any difference between a hunting whistle and a training whistle? Need a whistle to get my dogs attention if she is ever to escape. Not a hunting man myself but my beagle is showing signs of beening a great hunter, to me she seems to have a great prey drive. But again I'm not a hunter. I need to be able to call her back. Any tips in a iron strong recall with a whistle?it may be impossible with a beagle like most say but I'm going to give it a go anyways. Thanks

Spunk84

eoinburke67 wrote: »

Was pointed here by asking about dog whistles. Is there any difference between a hunting whistle and a training whistle? Need a whistle to get my dogs attention if she is ever to escape. Not a hunting man myself but my beagle is showing signs of beening a great hunter, to me she seems to have a great prey drive. But again I'm not a hunter. I need to be able to call her back. Any tips in a iron strong recall with a whistle?it may be impossible with a beagle like most say but I'm going to give it a go anyways. Thanks

had a few beagles over the years and they drove me mental:mad: will not heed a single word once they get on a scent.........Excellent for bushing. They all have a good prey drive

whistle wise get a aceme 210 or 211 1/2 which is in any fishing or shooting shop.... You could try a electronic collar for a "iron strong recall" but im not sure. Most hounds once they get on a scent are very hard to stop, pretty much wat they are bred for bud

snipe02

use a referees whistle its louder and it makes no difference to the dog

deeksofdoom

Hunting horn might be more appropriate!

patdahat

never heard of a beagle been trained to a whistle but im sure if you give enough time training him with it there is a possability it could work, it wont matter what whistle you use once u use the same 1 all the time, best of luck with it.

blackstairsboy

eoinburke67 wrote: »

Was pointed here by asking about dog whistles. Is there any difference between a hunting whistle and a training whistle? Need a whistle to get my dogs attention if she is ever to escape. Not a hunting man myself but my beagle is showing signs of beening a great hunter, to me she seems to have a great prey drive. But again I'm not a hunter. I need to be able to call her back. Any tips in a iron strong recall with a whistle?it may be impossible with a beagle like most say but I'm going to give it a go anyways. Thanks

Is the beagal hunting bred? If so you will probably have a job on your hand trying to train him to a whistle. You should bear in mind that if he is hunting bred there will be years of breeding behind him telling him to hunt it is part of his DNA. This is the reason why a lot of breeders of working dogs only like their pups to go to homes that will work them. It is not the dogs fault that he will want to hunt so you can not really blame him if he goes tearing away on a scent. But if you stick at it you should get their the key with training any dog is patience and consistency.

suziwalsh

I have a beagle and she is whistle trained to recall for emergencies....you can whistle train any breed especially if they like food

eoinburke67

suziwalsh wrote: »

I have a beagle and she is whistle trained to recall for emergencies....you can whistle train any breed especially if they like food

I got some advise from a my friendly hunter down the road who has two whistle trained dogs and he said to slowly replace her name for the whistle and not to bother with treats/food reward. But if your saying that it worked for you with treats I'll give that a go. Haven't a clue if she's from a hunting background or not to be honest got her from a guy under recommendation of a friend.

Gotta get started some where and I'm worried if she gets out during lambing season she will be shot.

EPointer=Birdss

eoinburke67 wrote: »

I got some advise from a my friendly hunter down the road who has two whistle trained dogs and he said to slowly replace her name for the whistle and not to bother with treats/food reward. But if your saying that it worked for you with treats I'll give that a go. Haven't a clue if she's from a hunting background or not to be honest got her from a guy under recommendation of a friend.

Gotta get started some where and I'm worried if she gets out during lambing season she will be shot.

I've news for you - the dog will cause more damage now whiles ewes are in lamb as when the lambs are born by worrying the flock.
As said an acme 210 or so for a fiver in any hunting/ fishing store is the job. Train her with rewards but if going the positive re-inforcement route you will need to get it water tight in the yard before allowed off the lead in any public/ country place.
I personally would use an Electric collar & teach it in one session but that's a whole other discussion that we've done on here a 100 times.

DogsFirst

eoinburke67 wrote: »

Was pointed here by asking about dog whistles. Is there any difference between a hunting whistle and a training whistle? Need a whistle to get my dogs attention if she is ever to escape. Not a hunting man myself but my beagle is showing signs of beening a great hunter, to me she seems to have a great prey drive. But again I'm not a hunter. I need to be able to call her back. Any tips in a iron strong recall with a whistle?it may be impossible with a beagle like most say but I'm going to give it a go anyways. Thanks

There is a difference in those whistles but there's thousands of different tones out there. Makes no difference to the dog, he'll come back to a raspberry if he knew it meant a sausage was appearing at your feet! Like Blackstair said beagles, and most breeds really, love a good run and rummage. If you were cooped up all day you'd go bananas too! So much to do and chase. If you don't teach him to come back in the first few months his "safety diameter" (how far he'll roam from you) will increase as he knows you'll be legging it after him! Think kid in a supermarket.

Get a whistle, any sort, stick it on a rope around your neck and cook up a heap of cocktail sausages. Start in your garden, blast whistle twice and drop a sausage on the ground when he's looking at you so he sees it. Repeat once or twice. Then wait till he's not looking, then wait till he's roamed away etc etc. Have it strong in the garden and house (blast twice for dinner). You are creating a positive association with the whistle - whistle means food.

First time you take him out make sure it is somewhere reasonably controlled (a small fenced area) with limited distractions (definitely no other dogs around) so early in the morning best. And most importantly, have him hungry!! Let him off lead and immediately blast whistle twice. He'll still be a little focused on you if he has just been released. He'll look at you questionly "what's it, dinner time?!" and you dump 5 or 6 sausages at your feet, one at a time. This is called a jackpot, one at a time with lots of good boys like a fruit machine paying out! Then put him back on the lead, walk a few meters let him off and repeat. Only do two or three times as he fills up then let him off good and proper.

Never use the whistle in the first month if you think you're going to fail, sets you back enormously.

To develop start using different tones, one long blast means settle or down or whatever, three short sharp blasts means sit, whatever.

Fade treats out over time but never rid. Treats are like painkillers, they make the lesson so much easier, but theres a big difference between bribe and reward. You use them now and again in recall to keep the response strong, so the behaviour doesn't extinguish.

eoinburke67

I'm heading into a the local hunting shop today to get one of those acme whistles, just to be safe not so sure in the one I have. I'm just going to have to get this sorted out E5 for a whistle and another fiver here and there on sausages is a hell of a lot cheaper then being sued by a farmer after she chased sheep around the field.

Out of curiosity for those who have gone down the e collar route, did it get results a lot quicker then traditional methods? And could you recommend one to me( just a botten spec one dont need it to work over 5 miles or anything) I have a radio fence for the dog but she's found a weak spot in its reception at the front where it's buried and able to get out the odd time. But I'm moving it now so the weak spot won't effect it anymore.
One last question. I've been doing normal recall with her for a while with the word not a whistle and she's pretty good around the house I'd say we're at 90% there not bullet proof but decent(where a fox may have come into the garden overnight or other dogs "marking" the land). She's 1.5 years old now am I starting this whistle training too late?

EPointer=Birdss

eoinburke67 wrote: »

I'm heading into a the local hunting shop today to get one of those acme whistles, just to be safe not so sure in the one I have. I'm just going to have to get this sorted out E5 for a whistle and another fiver here and there on sausages is a hell of a lot cheaper then being sued by a farmer after she chased sheep around the field.

Out of curiosity for those who have gone down the e collar route, did it get results a lot quicker then traditional methods? And could you recommend one to me( just a botten spec one dont need it to work over 5 miles or anything) I have a radio fence for the dog but she's found a weak spot in its reception at the front where it's buried and able to get out the odd time. But I'm moving it now so the weak spot won't effect it anymore.
One last question. I've been doing normal recall with her for a while with the word not a whistle and she's pretty good around the house I'd say we're at 90% there not bullet proof but decent(where a fox may have come into the garden overnight or other dogs "marking" the land). She's 1.5 years old now am I starting this whistle training too late?

PAC ndxt are a great collar IMO.
I use it as do 4 other lads I know locally. Cures deaf ears in dogs in sessions not weeks. Once the yard work is done & the fog knows whistle means come back to you then a collar can be introduced for the 10%. This will very quickly become 1%.
Immediate stimulation/ correction at point of undesired behaviour. You whistle the dog should return, if it doesn't & it knows it should you correct it. Hey presto the dog returns.
Not everyones cup of tea but I'm not up for another one of those debates. They work very well for me & those I've seen use them I would recommend for any dog. No she's not too old you just need to re-train the developed bad habits.

eoinburke67

PAC ndxt are a great collar IMO.
I use it as do 4 other lads I know locally. Cures deaf ears in dogs in sessions not weeks. Once the yard work is done & the fog knows whistle means come back to you then a collar can be introduced for the 10%. This will very quickly become 1%.
Immediate stimulation/ correction at point of undesired behaviour. You whistle the dog should return, if it doesn't & it knows it should you correct it. Hey presto the dog returns.
Not everyones cup of tea but I'm not up for another one of those debates. They work very well for me & those I've seen use them I would recommend for any dog. No she's not too old you just need to re-train the developed bad habits.[/Quote]

I'm not up for a debate of e collars either too many of them and everyone has a different opinion. My only concern about the e collar is miss understanding. When I first got the dog I looked them up and herd story's of how the shock got misunderstood in the correction process. For example in one case they were correcting a dogs desire to pull on the lead when it saw another dog. So it got a correction when it pulled, but the dog didnt associate the pulling with the problem it's blamed the other dogs and became aggressive.

And from a man who has a e collar would there be a chance that if I bought one and got the dog right I could sell it as I wouldn't need to collar or would it need a reminder every now and again?

EPointer=Birdss

You get a dummy collar with it which you could keep. You'd probably even sell it here with minimal use at reduced price.
I can't phatom why a collar would be needed for a dog pullin on a lead but I hear what your saying. Like any tool if misused it can cause problems.
I put my collar on my 4yr old dog every time I leave the house. I can't rememeber last time I shocked him but I beep sometimes. He turns or returns to the whistle 99 times out of a 100.

snipe02

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

You get a dummy collar with it which you could keep. You'd probably even sell it here with minimal use at reduced price.
I can't phatom why a collar would be needed for a dog pullin on a lead but I hear what your saying. Like any tool if misused it can cause problems.
I put my collar on my 4yr old dog every time I leave the house. I can't rememeber last time I shocked him but I beep sometimes. He turns or returns to the whistle 99 times out of a 100.

so would i if i had that thing around my neck :Di dont agree with them but cant argue thet they dont work

Spunk84

Agree with them 110% one or two sessions you will see a huge difference. There's one on adverts.ie at the min for a great price. Again wat was said above,keep away from livestock this time of year...

eoinburke67

Going to to bit of research into the e collar. Bcause of the radio fence she's already used to the beep so a e collar with a beep and vibrate should do the trick, I just need to get her attention when her head is up she listens just when that blessed nose goes down the problem arises. I can't punish her for doing what she was breed for! Thanks all for the input!

Spunk84

Nope u can't punish her for natural instinct but you can punish her for not listening to ur commands.

Ronnie Beck

Going to to bit of research into the e collar. Bcause of the radio fence she's already used to the beep so a e collar with a beep and vibrate should do the trick, I just need to get her attention when her head is up she listens just when that blessed nose goes down the problem arises. I can't punish her for doing what she was breed for! Thanks all for the input!

I would recommend putting your dogs breed out of your mind altogether. You'll only start making excuses for its disobedience. Just treat it as a generic dog. At the end of the day if you give a dog command that it knows well; sit, here, stay etc. and it disobeys you should correct him no matter what. IF you let them away with something even once they will try it again.

On the whistles if he has a nose down and starts speeding up on a scent blast a good loud referee whistle to break his deaf ears and then recall him with the peep peep.

eoinburke67

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

I would recommend putting your dogs breed out of your mind altogether. You'll only start making excuses for its disobedience. Just treat it as a generic dog. At the end of the day if you give a dog command that it knows well; sit, here, stay etc. and it disobeys you should correct him no matter what. IF you let them away with something even once they will try it again.

On the whistles if he has a nose down and starts speeding up on a scent blast a good loud referee whistle to break his deaf ears and then recall him with the peep peep.

got a whistle today had a man with a shotgun on it and a springer on the packet so i presume its a hunting one, its not a silent one either very like referee whistle. Didn't feed the dog so she would be hungry when we did some training. Went out side even in this wind and gave it 2 beeps, she came running and i gave her some nuts didn't have anything else and she was hungry so they were like gold in the moment. repeated for 5 mins and not one failed, but the whistle gave me a splitting headache after 3 blasts never heard any whistle so loud before!

but as to what you said about letting the breed be a excuse for disobedience i agree and disagree. The dog should and will in time listen no matter what. But its genetic programming dose need to be considered and corrections adjusted to work for both the benefit of me and the dog.

Still thinking about the e collar to enforce obedience on and off leash. a low setting on the collar just enough for a light pinch should be enough to get her on the straight and narrow.

Ronnie Beck

eoinburke67 wrote: »

got a whistle today had a man with a shotgun on it and a springer on the packet so i presume its a hunting one, its not a silent one either very like referee whistle. Didn't feed the dog so she would be hungry when we did some training. Went out side even in this wind and gave it 2 beeps, she came running and i gave her some nuts didn't have anything else and she was hungry so they were like gold in the moment. repeated for 5 mins and not one failed, but the whistle gave me a splitting headache after 3 blasts never heard any whistle so loud before!

but as to what you said about letting the breed be a excuse for disobedience i agree and disagree. The dog should and will in time listen no matter what. But its genetic programming dose need to be considered and corrections adjusted to work for both the benefit of me and the dog.

Still thinking about the e collar to enforce obedience on and off leash. a low setting on the collar just enough for a light pinch should be enough to get her on the straight and narrow.

Sounds like a thunderer. There used to stop a springer in its tracks when it flushes game from cover to give you a clear shot at the bird. They do have to trained to do this and it takes a long time to get them 100% steady. A recall/turn whistle is more like this:

http://www.gundogsonline.com/dog-whistle/acme-210-dog-whistle.html
They have a more chirpy, friendly sound to bring the dog back with his tail wagging.

Silent whistles are only good for collies or other dog with really sensitive hearing who who rather run away from a thunder whistle.

But in saying all that whatever works is good and if your dog has a strong food drive he'll recall to anything he associates with a bit of grub. I wouldn't recommend using crappy nuts though. If its a choice between rabbit and and bit of kibble... Real meat will have him turn on a sixpence.

eoinburke67

This whistle is a " buffalo 2 tone whistle" it has a whistle on both ends. One side is bigger then the other, also the bigger one has a ball in it like a normal whistle the other is like the ACME ones but shorter. I had actually gone into the shop to buy the acme 211.5 but came out with this. Only plan on using the bigger side with the loud whistle with the dog anyways and im only using it for recall not stopping or anything

eoinburke67

Here is the exact whistle
http://www.dogtrainingstuff.co.uk/buffalo-horn-dog-training-whistle---2-tone-68-p.asp

irish setter

as was said earlier the type of whistle don't matter. and as far as i can see there is not really such a thing as whistle training your dog. your just training your dog to respond in a certain way to a certain signal like hand voice or whistle signals. the advantage of the whistle is that it can be heard at some distance and if your pissed off at your dog the whistle won't give you away like hand or voice signals. the reason i'm writing this is that if your dog learned to ignore your voice he will learn to ignore your whistle and the only way to stop this is to make sure he follows though on your signal every time first time. easier said than done. while i believe there are better ways than the e collar i would only train a dog from a pup.

eoinburke67

so your method would be to put a lead on the dog and whistle and pull? I have done this and it works great in the garden but its when i take her out and introduce a new environment like a wood at the back of my house a long lead gets tangled everywhere and makes it impossible to train. Personally i dont want to put the e collar on the dog but obviously i havent been doing it right and now time is against me to get recall better should she get out with lambing season coming. the pops is coming home on friday and we are going to have a chat where to go with the collar.
been working with the whistle all day going out every hour and doing it 3-5 times with treats (not nuts now) with out fail, geting a pack of cocktail sausages when we go shopping next. once i get the sausages im going to try the forest again, but im going to have to come up with some sort of way to stop the crap with the rope if i dont get the collar. During the summer i trainer her on a rope in a local farmers field but its filled with sheep atm so the wood is the only way to introduce distractions and control her

Vizzy

Eoin,
I notice you mentioned "a long lead" and "a rope".
Firstly a rope is useless.The dog is more likely to hang itself than anything else.
What is good is one of those wire clothes lines that are coated with plastic( bit like electrical wire).They are stiff enough so that they wont tangle on roots or around trees.
Word of caution though,dont try to grab the wire when the dog runs as you will get badly burned (or worse again,lose a finger).Always stand on the wire.
Whats even better is a long leash about 1.5 inches wide and about 100ft long.Won't tangle and can be caught by hand.They can be bought on t'internet for about €10.
Check this crowd in UK. redalertsecurityservices.

EPointer=Birdss

Wait til you use the collar & see what happens. eureka!
The dogs gets the whistle concept already obviously so it's now enforcing it 100% of the time.
Dogs get noses full of scent which leads to ears full of wax & heads full of notions. A buzz at source will turn that hound right round!!

eoinburke67

Vizzy wrote: »

Eoin,
I notice you mentioned "a long lead" and "a rope".
Firstly a rope is useless.The dog is more likely to hang itself than anything else.
What is good is one of those wire clothes lines that are coated with plastic( bit like electrical wire).They are stiff enough so that they wont tangle on roots or around trees.
Word of caution though,dont try to grab the wire when the dog runs as you will get badly burned (or worse again,lose a finger).

Unfortunately i know what you mean about getting burnt by the wire. Got a mark across all my fingers on my left hand from that hurt like hell but wasn't going to let go. I'll have another look at the clothes line wire but the wood im talking about has a path up the middle thats it if the dog goes sideways at all the wire gets tangled around all the trees and the more i untangle it the more she tangles it To be perfectly honest I've been looking up the collars all day and looking at videos on you tube on how to implement them correctly and gone to a local hunting store and priced a couple sets even got the money out of the bank and in the wallet at home so once i win the pops over i can get started on saturday maybe even friday

Looking at
http://www.petsafe.ie/magento/index.php/trainers/domestic-trainer/small-dogs-100m-trainer-3-6kg-18kg.html

http://www.petsafe.ie/magento/index.php/trainers/professional-trainers/350m-professional-sport-dog-trainer.html

http://www.petsafe.ie/magento/index.php/trainers/professional-trainers/700m-professional-sport-dog-trainer.html

any ideas on which one? my head says the one with 350 m range but saving money is on my mind and the 100m comes to mind. EPointer i did look at your PAC ndxt but im the type of guy who likes to go into the shop not buying online with so much money and 1km range when im not going hunting and paying extra for it turned me off, plus the pet safe have a 2/3 year warranty and i dont have to pay for postage to send it back if anything goes wrong

Vizzy

I'm afraid I have no experience of E-collars except to say that my brother uses a "sportsdog" one.I think it has a range of 800m and he uses it on setters,once they got used to it they stop/turn on the buzz immediately.
I have a Petsafe fence around the garden and it works great too.
Of the three different ones you are looking at,the first one seems to be only for small dogs(i.e. less than 16kg) so I would say that it probably wont be suitable.
The other 2 look fine though,depends on your budget after that.
Do you know any shooting man with an E-collar that you could try before you buy?.
As regards the clothes line I mentioned,the wire in the clothes line will not snag unless the dog runs round and round a tree or a root.
Best of luck whatever route you choose.

EPointer=Birdss

I just use the ndxt as has tidy robust remote. Battery is unreal on both collar & remote plus aftersale Service is excellent. There's repair office in Ireland somewhere that may or may not sell. I used use cheaper brands before but weren't as good. You'll pick one they suits you sure. Pity you weren't in Birr Game Fair this year. They were under 200 cash money.

eoinburke67

Taking everyones input in to make the right choice. I dont want to seem like i have a closed mind and just want the e collar but given my circumstances I do think its the best option. The small E colar would work the dog is only 9-11 kg and 1.5 yrs old so shes more or less done growing. Would have loved to have been at the birr fair and pick one up. Sadly no one i know has experience with e collars so im depending on you tube videos. The main idea of the ecollar is for the dog to get trained to the beep by using the shock and then train the beep out and then purely on the whistle while keeping the collar on as a fall back.

Spunk84

I would stop with the long lead and doing whistles every hour man,there's a dog collar for a 150 on adverts.ie which I'd say u would get for 100-130 if u go for it now..

As E-Pointer has mentioned before and myself you will see a difference quickly. I did it with my dog, like yourself he would run off. Put the collar on the dog and let him run,blasted whistle twice and he didn't listen, so shocked him,he ran back to me. Repeated process again,he ran I called him once and he turned and looked back, of course he ran and of course I whistled again with a shock.....again dog ran back.give him a pet and that was it. I only had to give a whistle from then on and he stopped in his tracks to see "what I wanted" not what he wanted if you catch what I'm saying.

Also I have the Sportsdog 800m bought on eBay for little over a 100e with a lifetime warranty, great piece of hardware.

eoinburke67

If it was up to me I would have bought the 350m range collar today, but it's a family dog which means family decisions (ironically dad never involved anyone when he picked the breed). I'm fairly hopfull we will get the collar and if so I'll be looking forward to having one of the few reliable off lead beagles in the county but judging from other posts on boards there is a few here, also looking forward to a walk through the woods with the friends dogs. In the long run it will lead to a better life for the dog. Thanks again to all

irish setter

eoinburke67 wrote: »

so your method would be to put a lead on the dog and whistle and pull? I have done this and it works great in the garden but its when i take her out and introduce a new environment like a wood at the back of my house a long lead gets tangled everywhere and makes it impossible to train. Personally i dont want to put the e collar on the dog but obviously i havent been doing it right and now time is against me to get recall better should she get out with lambing season coming. the pops is coming home on friday and we are going to have a chat where to go with the collar.
been working with the whistle all day going out every hour and doing it 3-5 times with treats (not nuts now) with out fail, geting a pack of cocktail sausages when we go shopping next. once i get the sausages im going to try the forest again, but im going to have to come up with some sort of way to stop the crap with the rope if i dont get the collar. During the summer i trainer her on a rope in a local farmers field but its filled with sheep atm so the wood is the only way to introduce distractions and control her

no i don't use any lead or rope or anything else when training at any stage. i just get em young enough. you don't have that on your side so maybe a collar would suit

eoinburke67

Had a chat with the family and not everyone is agreeable to the collar so its out the window, maybe in a while ill be able to talk them into it. Its back to the rope maybe washing line wire later on. So a couple tips on the rope would be great, i know some were pointed out earlier but a couple more peoples opinions would be nice. A time line in the stages would be handy but i know every dog is different.

EPointer=Birdss

eoinburke67 wrote: »

Had a chat with the family and not everyone is agreeable to the collar so its out the window, maybe in a while ill be able to talk them into it. Its back to the rope maybe washing line wire later on. So a couple tips on the rope would be great, i know some were pointed out earlier but a couple more peoples opinions would be nice. A time line in the stages would be handy but i know every dog is different.

You see if you had a collar you could put it on the family to stop that kinda back chat!

That would frustrate the hell out of me TBH. I would argue where was all the input when the dog was picking up the bad habits. :rolleyes:

Good Luck all the same

eoinburke67

You see if you had a collar you could put it on the family to stop that kinda back chat!

That would frustrate the hell out of me TBH. I would argue where was all the input when the dog was picking up the bad habits. :rolleyes:

Good Luck all the same[/Quote]
Never had any help raising the dog! All her falts are my own creation. But at the same time how's a 14yr old to raise a pup with no help other then YouTube, didnt even have the option of getting the training started in the early days 3 mts old when I first got her, but loving every day training her just wish I could walk her off lead would be nice to have such trust. Thanks

EPointer=Birdss

eoinburke67 wrote: »

You see if you had a collar you could put it on the family to stop that kinda back chat!

That would frustrate the hell out of me TBH. I would argue where was all the input when the dog was picking up the bad habits. :rolleyes:

Good Luck all the same

Never had any help raising the dog! All her falts are my own creation. But at the same time how's a 14yr old to raise a pup with no help other then YouTube, didnt even have the option of getting the training started in the early days 3 mts old when I first got her, but loving every day training her just wish I could walk her off lead would be nice to have such trust. Thanks[/QUOTE]

Ah i hear you & fair play. You have to do things to learn things afterall. I was no dog whisperer at 14 .
The obvious solution is there at arms length & the people that have used them so in a place to comment will & have given testiment to their benefits. Get the family on Boards & we have a chat.