Future of Agricultural Land Values

easydosh

Hi guys

Im planning on living in Ireland for a few years approx 5-10 yrs new job offer (Tipp/ Cork locality). However while Im here I would like to buy some land appox 30 acres orso because im passionate about farming and I dont fancy a leasing option.

Anyway instead of asking self-interested auctioneers( im told) i want suggestions regarding the future of irish land prices.

Im told that good quality land in a nice location can be gotten for 10000e an acre with a derelict building with a few sheds . However i still feel that this is still somewhat expensive given EU averages ??
Surely this Price is unsustainable??
What are peoples opinions on Irish land prices future 2012-2015??
Or has anyone examples??
Or has anyone any knowledge of where I could obtain more information on this??

Thanks and any advice would be appreciated highly
Thanks again

blue5000

What sort of quality are you looking for?
Do you want arable land or grazing or poor quality (wet) land there is a world of difference. Top Q land is about 10k, 5k for the wet stuff, cash a bit cheaper.

easydosh

Thanks for your reply mate
Ya Would be looking for mainly the dry stuff although a bit of grazing would be grand.
How could I go about getting more info on this ??
Was told by a friend that the reports of prices in irish papers are always showing the top lots only is this true??
and do u think land prices will fall in the next five years sources are telling me two different stories ??
cheers

SeanSouth

You're absolutely right that Irish land is the most expensive in Europe by a long shot.

Even though its fallen in price by around 60% since the height of the boom, it still makes no sense from a return on investment standpoint. Basically there is NO return at all. We are paying 25000 / hectare here i Ireland, Germans are paying about 5000 / Hectare

The ludicrous price of Irish land comes from "Irish mindset" and is totally irrational.
Because the value of land is derived from irrational and non financial factors, its also difficult to predict future price development. My guess is that the 10000/acre that we are seeing today will become 6000/acre within three years.

Whats driving the price of land today. Current market is being driven by private individuals who sold land for building in the last 5 - 8 years and are are now re-entering.
the market with cash. When this cash has been exhausted, its hard to see where future
liquidity will come from, for buying land. I think banks are extremely cautious in this sector, knowing well that the returns from farming cannot sustain large borrowings.

I think you will see the 10000/acre remain for a year or two and then another dip to the 6000/acre level.

easydosh

hi sean south thanks for reply
ya I was told that and it seems to be a very culturally proud thing to be connected with land hence high prices.
however i was also told that another reason for this price is because irish farm sell are usually in lower acreage than other European counterparts driving demand to dizzying heights.
surprisingly for me however given all the international news reports i hear on Ireland property has collapsed to huge amounted and everyone has been hit by the recession and that anyone that sold properties a high proportion invested in bank shares.
Is this true and is there more wealth in the country than reports are suggesting??

fodda

In every property boom and bust there are some lucky or clever people left with wads of cash but that's got nothing to do with agri land.

Wait and see if the euro goes and then buy for pennies if your cash is in something of higher value of course.

SeanSouth

Hello again

I can safely say that the theory suggesting that Irish land is priced higher because land lots here are smaller is a red herring. There is a basis for arguing that smaller lots might fetch 5% - 10% more than bigger lots but that itself does not account for the huge disparity that exists at the moment (up to 300% difference in price between Ireland and other parts of Europe). If smaller lots made such a big difference to the selling price, then farmers would naturally break their farms into smaller lots when selling. I can see little or no evidence of that. Most serious farmers are looking for bigger lots these days, not smaller lots and i would go as far as saying that the bigger lots are more attractive going forward.

When the boom turned to bust here a few years ago there were huge amounts of deposits in Irish banks. A lot of this was held by farmers who had sold their farms at premium prices "for building" A lot of this money remained in Irish banks until 2009/2010 but then with the collapse of the Irish banks, a lot of this money left Ireland for safer havens abroad. A lot of the money is still there and available BUT its abroad.
Its possible that some of this money went into shares but the evidence is there that most of this money was kept in cash and remains in cash (abroad)

There are lots of people out there with cash in overseas banks, waiting for their opportunity to buy up Irish land. 10000/acre seems to be a price at which many of them are happy "to get back in the water". I believe that prices will remain at this level until the cash is gone.

Prices are 60% down from boom prices and therfore are relatively attractive.
The big problem however ids that these lower prices are still not economic and make no financial sense to an investor.

easydosh

thanks
anyone else with any input wouldalso be welcomed

blue5000

easydosh wrote: »

Thanks for your reply mate
Ya Would be looking for mainly the dry stuff although a bit of grazing would be grand.
How could I go about getting more info on this ??
Was told by a friend that the reports of prices in irish papers are always showing the top lots only is this true??
and do u think land prices will fall in the next five years sources are telling me two different stories ??
cheers

This would be a good week to go looking so:pac:

I heard of a non farmer who wore shoes going to look at a farm he bought in a dry summer......needless to say he wouldn't get far in shoes today.

Personally I don't think land prices will fall in the next 10 yrs. Demand for food is there, plus eu policy seems to mitigate against intensive agriculture, and as other posters have said above we in Ireland seem to be infatuated with land ownership.

It can be a slow process buying land as the sale of one plot depends on whether a farmer can buy another bit. So the whole thing is a chain, one broken deal and the whole lot stops, be patient.

poor farmer

blue5000 wrote: »

This would be a good week to go looking so:pac:

I heard of a non farmer who wore shoes going to look at a farm he bought in a dry summer......needless to say he wouldn't get far in shoes today.

Personally I don't think land prices will fall in the next 10 yrs. Demand for food is there, plus eu policy seems to mitigate against intensive agriculture, and as other posters have said above we in Ireland seem to be infatuated with land ownership.

It can be a slow process buying land as the sale of one plot depends on whether a farmer can buy another bit. So the whole thing is a chain, one broken deal and the whole lot stops, be patient.

Agreed ,i dont think land values will fall ,quite the opposite
Someone quoted lately that the average field in Ireland changes`ownership every 400 years.As an asset land looks more attractive than ever ,compared to say shares, property ,e.t.c. There are now a lot of farmers in the market for land now ,just go and try to rent or buy a farm.

keep going

just remember if something dosnt make scence it will always come to an end but human nature will carry it a long way first

easydosh

excellent post kepgoing 400 yrs wow anyone have any examples of prices for small parcels in their area in order to get a rough perspective???:)

easydosh

i was also told that farmers were struggling economically not all but some from building on their premises and not taking into account their low incomes at the time so for this reason i was told that a larger amount of parcels may apper in the market in the next few years???

How true is this??

sean_0

370K for 27 acres in South Limerick near Cork border about 4 weeks ago.

5live

easydosh wrote: »

excellent post kepgoing 400 yrs wow anyone have any examples of prices for small parcels in their area in order to get a rough perspective???:)

11800 an acre for 18 acres(iirc) with 15k gallons of quota last year but excellent land in fairness.

I would have to agree with blue5000 on this. Land prices will hold for a good few years yet i'd say. Again that depends on commodity prices not falling through the floor but i only remember one period of land values falling significantly and that was the early 80s and mostly in response to interest rates in the low 20%s. Even then, it only fell by 50% and 5 years later it was almost back to its previous level. Even then, at land values of £4-5k an acre people were saying land was overvalued.

Small parcels will cost more than large parcels because they are more affordable for more people eg. 100k is within the reach of more people than 200k for 10 and 20 acres at 10k an acre. Also land bounding you only comes up once in a life time in a lot of cases so it makes sense to pay more for it than the equivalent land even 2 miles away. Easier to integrate into your own farm and less road travel to check stock/move stock/cut silage etc.

And they dont seem to be making more of it anymore:pac:

professore

At these prices land makes no business sense whatsoever. If you're buying it at these levels you're buying it as a hobby - don't expect to make any money on it.

In fact farming in general in Ireland in it's current form is a hobby subsidised by the EU - and it is this that is driving the prices, it is exactly like the old taxi plates. Ireland currently gets €1.8 billion per annum in subsidies - http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/about_the_eu/eu_and_agriculture/index_en.htm - take this away or cut it substantially and watch prices freefall.

It's a disgrace that the Netherlands, a country that is half underwater, and 16 1/2 million in an area the size of Munster can supply Europe with vegetables while our own country and the likes of France have to buy from them even though they get massive CAP subsidies.

What we need is New Zealand style 10000+ acre farms with lots of tillage - with land at maybe 1K / acre.

vcsggl

There's another factor at work in Ireland that is really not found elsewhere in Europe to anything like the same extent and that's the very deep commitment to ownership of a bit of your own land - that is a key part of the Irish psyche. People would always pay over the odds for the bit of land they'd always fancied - and neighbours would often pay even more to make sure they didn't get it ! In "modern Ireland" sound business sense may be a much more significant factor but the deep attachement to the land is still there , not so far beneath the surface.

Bull MacCabe and his Field may well be a piece of fiction but I can think of a few Bull's that are alive and well!!

In the long term land remains one of the best investments you could make - but it's no good if you want a quick return and might need your money in a hurry.

George

SeanSouth

One of the big problems that we had during the boom was people buying into property assets that made no financial sense.

Agricultural land prices made no sense during the boom and they still do not make financial sense. Make no mistake, land prices will correct, they will come into line with the rest of Europe.They have to. Otherwise we will never be competitive.This will happen through further price falls or Ireland leaving the euro and devaluing OR European land prices rising dramatically. I have no wisdom as to how it will happen but common sense dictates that it will happen. This is especially true when you consider that EU farm supports will be removed in the coming years.

Now about the guys who say that Irish land only changes hand every 400 years. Unfortunately this is also hogwash. 100 years ago, 97% of Catholic farmers were tenant farmers in Ireland. They did not own their own land. They rented it from English landlords. That all changed around the turn of the last century with the setting up of the land league. A huge proportion of Irish land changed hands during this time.
If we go back 150 years or so, we had the Irish famine where the average farm was less than 10 acres in size. A farm of 5 acres or less was not uncommon and we had a total population of c.10million people.
After the famine some 2million had died of starvation and c.4million emigrated. At this time also there was huge shifts of ownership in land.
How anybody can say that land in Ireland has a history of staying in the same ownership for 400 years is hard to understand.

5live

professore wrote: »

At these prices land makes no business sense whatsoever. If you're buying it at these levels you're buying it as a hobby - don't expect to make any money on it.

In fact farming in general in Ireland in it's current form is a hobby subsidised by the EU - and it is this that is driving the prices, it is exactly like the old taxi plates. Ireland currently gets €1.8 billion per annum in subsidies - http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/about_the_eu/eu_and_agriculture/index_en.htm - take this away or cut it substantially and watch prices freefall.

It's a disgrace that the Netherlands, a country that is half underwater, and 16 1/2 million in an area the size of Munster can supply Europe with vegetables while our own country and the likes of France have to buy from them even though they get massive CAP subsidies.

What we need is New Zealand style 10000+ acre farms with lots of tillage - with land at maybe 1K / acre.

And the debt levels on dutch farms are eyewatering.

And the net benefit to ireland from the EU is,iirc, about 400million after what we pay into the EU is deducted.

And the restrictive employment laws governing minimum wages and job security and need for employment visas is also government regulated subsidies for hobby employment in the general economy but that is mercifully overlooked in your simplistic analysis.

And your knowledge of NZ farming is sadly lacking. Farms are bigger, yes but there is little regulation of pollution, animal welfare or wildlife which is what the subsidies which you decry are paid to farmers for, to level the playing field because of the costs involved in keeping small fields and hadgerows and wildlife and water quality not only as it is but constantly improving. And there is little tillage in NZ as it is predominately livestock orientated ie sheep and dairying with some deer and beef.

5live

SeanSouth wrote: »

Now about the guys who say that Irish land only changes hand every 400 years. Unfortunately this is also hogwash. 100 years ago, 97% of Catholic farmers were tenant farmers in Ireland. They did not own their own land. They rented it from English landlords. That all changed around the turn of the last century with the setting up of the land league. A huge proportion of Irish land changed hands during this time.
If we go back 150 years or so, we had the Irish famine where the average farm was less than 10 acres in size. A farm of 5 acres or less was not uncommon and we had a total population of c.10million people.
After the famine some 2million had died of starvation and c.4million emigrated. At this time also there was huge shifts of ownership in land.
How anybody can say that land in Ireland has a history of staying in the same ownership for 400 years is hard to understand.

The land that was purchased during the land reforms of the late 19th and early 20th century was the land actually farmed by the tenant farmers for decades and in my own familys case over 100 years. So while the ownership has, as you said, actually changed, the actual farmers families working the land is still the same so the once every 400 years is still accurate. And even more frightening, when you take out the land that has changed multiple times out of that calculation, it is even more tightly held

SeanSouth

Hi 5live

We'll have to agree to disagree on the 400 year thing.

Even if you go back to the faminee only 150 years ago , the average farm size was 10 acres Vs an estimated average of 80 acres today.

Its nonsense to say that the same farming families are on the same lands 400 years later when you consider that farms were 8 times smaller even 150 years ago. There were no tenant farms of 80 acres or 40 acres or 20 acres. All tenant farms were really small subsistance potato farms.

The fact is that the only big farms that existed 150 years ago were owned almost exclusively by wealthy protestant english families

Tipp Man

professore wrote: »

At these prices land makes no business sense whatsoever. If you're buying it at these levels you're buying it as a hobby - don't expect to make any money on it.

In fact farming in general in Ireland in it's current form is a hobby subsidised by the EU - and it is this that is driving the prices, it is exactly like the old taxi plates. Ireland currently gets €1.8 billion per annum in subsidies - http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/about_the_eu/eu_and_agriculture/index_en.htm - take this away or cut it substantially and watch prices freefall.

It's a disgrace that the Netherlands, a country that is half underwater, and 16 1/2 million in an area the size of Munster can supply Europe with vegetables while our own country and the likes of France have to buy from them even though they get massive CAP subsidies.

What we need is New Zealand style 10000+ acre farms with lots of tillage - with land at maybe 1K / acre.

Ignorance is bliss

Tipp Man

Lets get 1 thing straight here

In France they say a field changes hands once every 70 years, in Ireland it is several hundred years

What this actually means is that about 1.5% of land changes hands in France annually - not that any and every specific field changes hand every 70 years - it is about the total amount of land that comes on the market annually

Applying this to Ireland it means that only approx 0.25% - 0.4% of land comes on the market annually (hence the 400 years). not that it is 400 years since the field next to me was sold

This has nothing to do with specific fields being sold or english land ownership or anything like that. Very Little Irish land comes on the market annually - demand is nearly alway high - hence the high price - FACT

pakalasa

With the uncertainty over the Euro and so little land coming on to the market, I don't think we will see a drop in land prices in the very near future. Agri land may not give a high % return, but most don't look at it that way. It's a very low risk investment, with most taking the long term view not just over years, but over generations.

Timmaay

In todays Farming Indo

20% is a massive leap, but the article doesn't give any info on the source of the figures, but generally because the volume of land sold every year is so small, a few large farms etc can skew the results massively, so I wouldn't be rushing out to buy up land yet!

darragh_haven

Tipp Man wrote: »

Lets get 1 thing straight here

In France they say a field changes hands once every 70 years, in Ireland it is several hundred years

What this actually means is that about 1.5% of land changes hands in France annually - not that any and every specific field changes hand every 70 years - it is about the total amount of land that comes on the market annually

Applying this to Ireland it means that only approx 0.25% - 0.4% of land comes on the market annually (hence the 400 years). not that it is 400 years since the field next to me was sold

This has nothing to do with specific fields being sold or english land ownership or anything like that. Very Little Irish land comes on the market annually - demand is nearly alway high - hence the high price - FACT

Spot on Tipp man... i knew this was the case but couldn't articulate it to the seething masses.

Vandy West

If the government brings in a property tax, the cost of land could go down rapidly.

I'd say many people buy farm land knowing they won't make a profit (and probably will have to subsidize the cost of the land from other income), so that future generations will have a worthwhile amount of land.

5live

Tipp Man wrote: »

Lets get 1 thing straight here

In France they say a field changes hands once every 70 years, in Ireland it is several hundred years

What this actually means is that about 1.5% of land changes hands in France annually - not that any and every specific field changes hand every 70 years - it is about the total amount of land that comes on the market annually

Applying this to Ireland it means that only approx 0.25% - 0.4% of land comes on the market annually (hence the 400 years). not that it is 400 years since the field next to me was sold

This has nothing to do with specific fields being sold or english land ownership or anything like that. Very Little Irish land comes on the market annually - demand is nearly alway high - hence the high price - FACT

Well put, Tipp Man. As darragh haven said, i couldnt quite put down what i was getting at.:o

But the stat is correct all the same. On average, land will only come up for sale every 400 years. Some will be sold 10 times in that time and some never sold at all. The majority of us have a 'need' to put down roots, whether that comes from the mostly poor results of lack of tenure in the irish psyche or social pressure to become a property holder i dont know. But land in general holds its value, to an unsustainable level for someone not already a landowner

archer22

I honestly think land prices in Ireland will rise again.The reason for the current big drop in prices are the shock of the economic collapse which has made people uncertain and wary of spending coupled with the fact that the banks are not lending.When those factors mitigate prices will begin to climb as demand far exceeds supply.Land prices in Ireland only see excessive when compared to western Europes larger nations such as France etc.In the smaller (Ireland sized) nations land is not cheap.Check out prices in places like Austria,Netherlands,Denmark,Belgium etc...And now with demand of food exports to places like China and India looking set to keep increasing plus possible lifting of milk quotas.I would think the dip in land price is only temporary

archer22

Oh and just to add..farming has been all but abandoned in France over the years.With the French goverment even trying to recruit farmers in some areas..even foreign ones.In Ireland the situation is the opposite with farming being the only bright spot in a bleak economy.So comparing French and irish lands prices is really comparing two totally opposite situations

fodda

archer22 wrote: »

I honestly think land prices in Ireland will rise again.The reason for the current big drop in prices are the shock of the economic collapse which has made people uncertain and wary of spending coupled with the fact that the banks are not lending.When those factors mitigate prices will begin to climb as demand far exceeds supply.Land prices in Ireland only see excessive when compared to western Europes larger nations such as France etc.In the smaller (Ireland sized) nations land is not cheap.Check out prices in places like Austria,Netherlands,Denmark,Belgium etc...And now with demand of food exports to places like China and India looking set to keep increasing plus possible lifting of milk quotas.I would think the dip in land price is only temporary

Prices will only increase if there is demand and money for it.

In the outside world the average age of the farmer is quite old with no young men coming in to farming because it is dirty hard work.

At the same time the population of the world has increased massively so the demand for food is there, but most people do not have the cash to pay for the food that Ireland and other like countries produce. Add to this high land costs and the need for high wages (in Ireland) because of costs of living.

Then you have a bit of a problem. The west who have the money for your food but can buy from anywhere so supply isnt a problem and the developing countries with many mouths who cant afford your food.

Something will have to give.

archer22

fodda wrote: »

Prices will only increase if there is demand and money for it.

In the outside world the average age of the farmer is quite old with no young men coming in to farming because it is dirty hard work.

At the same time the population of the world has increased massively so the demand for food is there, but most people do not have the cash to pay for the food that Ireland and other like countries produce. Add to this high land costs and the need for high wages (in Ireland) because of costs of living.

Then you have a bit of a problem. The west who have the money for your food but can buy from anywhere so supply isnt a problem and the developing countries with many mouths who cant afford your food.

Something will have to give.

Regarding the developing world for example China,there is a huge and growing newly affluent middle and upper class.In fact anybody who has visited China recently will be astounded by the wealth in parts of it.Makes Ireland look third world .There is a huge and ever growing market there for high quality foreign food imports.China inspite of its huge size has little good agricultural land.

fodda

archer22 wrote: »

Regarding the developing world for example China,there is a huge and growing newly affluent middle and upper class.In fact anybody who has visited China recently will be astounded by the wealth in parts of it.Makes Ireland look third world .There is a huge and ever growing market there for high quality foreign food imports.China inspite of its huge size has little good agricultural land.

Yes i know that china needs to import food which is why they are taking over Africa, China only buys Irelands waste......animal offal, heads, feet etc.

Tipp Man

fodda wrote: »

Prices will only increase if there is demand and money for it.

In the outside world the average age of the farmer is quite old with no young men coming in to farming because it is dirty hard work.

At the same time the population of the world has increased massively so the demand for food is there, but most people do not have the cash to pay for the food that Ireland and other like countries produce. Add to this high land costs and the need for high wages (in Ireland) because of costs of living.

Then you have a bit of a problem. The west who have the money for your food but can buy from anywhere so supply isnt a problem and the developing countries with many mouths who cant afford your food.

Something will have to give.

It would be foolish to think that the likes of China can't match the West when it comes to buying food - they are the ones that are driving market prices at the moment and they are a large part of the reason why Irish beef and milk and grain are being sold at prices which are very comparable to the world market prices. check out the huge price increase in Brazil for beef and NZ for milk over the last 5 years

We are no longer producing expensive commodities that can only be sold to well off economies, we are producing commodities that are competitive on world markets, world markets which are beginning to be dominated by the "poorer countries"

Tipp Man

fodda wrote: »

Yes i know that china needs to import food which is why they are taking over Africa, China only buys Irelands waste......animal offal, heads, feet etc.

China doesn't need to buy Irelands meat or milk

If china buys a huge amount of Brazilian beef or NZ milk then that is a huge amount of beef and milk that other countries who also import meat and/or milk cannot buy therefore they need to source their imports elsewhere - Ireland being 1 possible option

As long as China keeps the world demand for meat and milk strong then it is not necessarily of vital importance that China actually buys from Ireland. We just need strong world demand - and by definition China is a leading nation in creating this strong world demand

Tipp Man

archer22 wrote: »

Oh and just to add..farming has been all but abandoned in France over the years.With the French goverment even trying to recruit farmers in some areas..even foreign ones.In Ireland the situation is the opposite with farming being the only bright spot in a bleak economy.So comparing French and irish lands prices is really comparing two totally opposite situations

I don't think anybody has compared French land prices with Irish land prices

bbam

fodda wrote: »

China only buys Irelands waste......animal offal, heads, feet etc.

This surprises me.. do you have any information on the quantity of offal being exported to China?

1chippy

seen on the rte news the other night that even pandas were now starting to eat meat, now with all the extra chinese and all the pandas, sure we'll be grand. Theres bound to be another few quid in farming by the butt end of next year might give a boost to land prices.
i cant see africa being a whole pile good for producing food, but maybe im wrong.
Prob should have stuck in a big grin

fodda

bbam wrote: »

This surprises me.. do you have any information on the quantity of offal being exported to China?

No sorry but it was a recent thing and cant remember where i saw it.

It was regarding killing and selling poultry and costs which were not as high as somebody posted that offal is frozan and bought by china.

It could be true as i also read they eat chicken feet there like we eat spare ribs.

fodda

1chippy wrote: »

seen on the rte news the other night that even pandas were now starting to eat meat, now with all the extra chinese and all the pandas, sure we'll be grand. Theres bound to be another few quid in farming by the butt end of next year might give a boost to land prices.
i cant see africa being a whole pile good for producing food, but maybe im wrong.
Prob should have stuck in a big grin

Africa is a great place for food thats why the colonials....UK, Germany, Dutch, Portugees, French, Spanish went there and fought over it in places.

Rhodesia/Zimbabre is one example.:)....cant spell it.:)

China leases vast areas for food and sends there own people there to farm and manage it.

Juniorhurler

fodda wrote: »

1chippy wrote: »

seen on the rte news the other night that even pandas were now starting to eat meat, now with all the extra chinese and all the pandas, sure we'll be grand. Theres bound to be another few quid in farming by the butt end of next year might give a boost to land prices.
i cant see africa being a whole pile good for producing food, but maybe im wrong.
Prob should have stuck in a big grin

Africa is a great place for food thats why the colonials....UK, Germany, Dutch, Portugees, French, Spanish went there and fought over it in places.

Rhodesia/Zimbabre is one example.:)....cant spell it.:)

China leases vast areas for food and sends there own people there to farm and manage it.

Parts of the southern half of the continent are yes. I have travelled the northern half fairly well and not much other than monkey nuts will grow in a lot of it.

bbam

fodda wrote: »

It could be true as i also read they eat chicken feet there like we eat spare ribs.

It could also be untrue :rolleyes:

Indeed chicken feet are eaten there although I couldn't take to them... then again I don't like spare ribs either

I know they source huge amounts of chicken feet from the states.. good market for Irish processors if they could tap into it..

Making a statement like "China only buys Ireland's waste" is factually incorrect and bordering on ignorance... lots of high end high value agricultural products are exported to China and it is a market being actively perused by processors here..

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0528/food.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/kfgbqlauqley/rss2/

A few facts are always useful when making a point

Apologies for bringing the thread off-topic

fodda

bbam wrote: »

It could also be untrue :rolleyes:

Indeed chicken feet are eaten there although I couldn't take to them... then again I don't like spare ribs either

I know they source huge amounts of chicken feet from the states.. good market for Irish processors if they could tap into it..

Making a statement like "China only buys Ireland's waste" is factually incorrect and bordering on ignorance... lots of high end high value agricultural products are exported to China and it is a market being actively perused by processors here..

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0528/food.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/kfgbqlauqley/rss2/

A few facts are always useful when making a point

Apologies for bringing the thread off-topic

No i should appologise, but i was talking of land based agri products meaning crops and meat.

easydosh

Sorry do meant to be ignorant but can we somehow get back to the topic of Irish land prices future?

milkprofit

In fact anybody who has visited China recently will be astounded by the wealth in parts of it.Makes Ireland look third world
Archer 22
Aask your friend about the 100 mil people in China living in absolute poverty
Did He see???????/

archer22

milkprofit wrote: »

In fact anybody who has visited China recently will be astounded by the wealth in parts of it.Makes Ireland look third world
Archer 22
Aask your friend about the 100 mil people in China living in absolute poverty
Did He see???????/

China has a population of over 1,300 Million people,and yes of course there are many poor people as well.Do you think there are no poor in Ireland?.Oh and no need to ask my "friend" as it was I that was there..Shanghai in fact.And yes Ireland did look third world by comparasion..there is no place in Ireland that even remotely compares to that.In Shanghai you feel you are in a mighty superpower..Now where in Ireland would you get that feeling :rolleyes:.

keep going

regardless of world food production which in my view has very little to do with irish land prices-food prices are still going to go up and down in the future,we are not on the verge of some farming dreamland of never ending high prices and there will only be a margin in it anyway because costs will follow prices.getting back to post in your situation given the short timeline and i take it you are from a nonfarming background i wouldnt dream of buying especially if you are worried about it making financial sence because it wont.must admit i think your timeline has more to do with tax issues than anything else and have been a little suspicious of the thread from the start

fodda

archer22 wrote: »

China has a population of over 1,300 Million people,and yes of course there are many poor people as well.Do you think there are no poor in Ireland?.Oh and no need to ask my "friend" as it was I that was there..Shanghai in fact.And yes Ireland did look third world by comparasion..there is no place in Ireland that even remotely compares to that.In Shanghai you feel you are in a mighty superpower..Now where in Ireland would you get that feeling :rolleyes:.

Next time you are there find out the prices of a pound of sirloin.

archer22

fodda wrote: »

Next time you are there find out the prices of a pound of sirloin.

I asked my wife about that..she does not know about the sirloin,but she thinks beef was working out at around 4-5 Euros a kilo..will check prices more closely next time.

Good loser

At €10,000 per acre and a rental of €200 per annum the return is 2%.

This is about average for Ireland over many years.

Could reasonably expect this to continue.

bbam

Round here it seems to be dairy led. Any type of land adjoining dairy farms is making and will continue to make good money, 10k for land needing renewal.
Apart from that it is quality based. Making from 3.5k to 6.5k an acre for suckling etc. Hard to see suckling making the repayments.