Bangernomics decision to be made!

john.west

Hi all and best wishes for 2012.

I would appreciate yer kind assistance and input in my little predicament.

Almost two years back a guy ran into the back of me and totalled my lovely shiny Vectra. To save myself some dosh and as my annual mileage had reduced considerably at the time I decided to go down the bangernomics route. €570 later I had myself a 1997 Carina E 1.6. NCT'd for about 6 months and a few months tax on it. Car was in generally good order apart from needing a backbox which I knew when buying it.

Apart from that all I needed to do to it since, outside of routine maintenance was fit a new radiator as it developed a leak and rear brake shoes (perhaps they are routine maintenance you might say). Other than that I failed NCT on "corrosion" on a rear brake line which was not corroded by any means, tarnised at worst. Some emery cloth and brasso later and the car passed next time round so didn't actually change the brake line (or need to in the first place)...some of you may have previously seen another thread I had on that. Other than that can't fault the car at all too much. Its mundane motoring, perhaps bordering on crude by modern standards. But have never being stranded on the side of the road or landed with a massive repair bill which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for previous more expensive cars I've owned.

Alas though a few bills are now looming in the near future. Timing belt will need done in the next 2k miles or so. A figure of circa €300 has being mentioned to me for this. Two new tyres will be needed pretty soon. I'm thinking a figure of €90/ €100 possibly as they are only 14" rims. Passenger window regulator has snapped recently. I'm guessing about €60 of a breakers yard depending on where I go to but could be well of the mark on that one? I'm sure I'd fit it myself if I got a someway half dry Saturday afternoon if we ever see one of them again? Other than that the car sometimes goes practically dead on the road with me. Injectors have being mentioned to me as a likely culpurit. I have priced them with Toyota, being a dealer only option, €140 each, ouch, 4 of them would be rather expensive. Don't seem to see them on ebay and have being done with second rate tat from ebay before. I'd actually probably ignore the problem if I knew tha car wouldn't leave me stranded holding up a row of traffic or something like that...being there before and its not a very nice place to be, believe me! I suppose thogh diagnostics is the place to start to figure the problem out...more €€€€. Besides all that water is leaking into the footwell behind driver...quite a drop of it these days with the sh!te weather...it would seem from talking to others that Japanese cars are infamous enough for such leaks

So my question is do ye reckon I should spend what needs to be spent on the car or just go down the bangernomics route again? I suppose I could spend the same again and end up with a peach or indeed a lemon. I'm guessing I could sell the Carina for €150/ €200 to someone who needs it for parts or would want to fix it up and put it back on the road. It is still NCT'd until next August. In the meantime space to hang on to both cars would not be a problem in the slightest.

Any thoughts appreciated, and apologies for the long winded post.

I think you might get more than €150 for it
I'd throw the dice of bangernomics again if I was you, there's great value out there.

tuborg_man

The key to bangornomics is to get out before paying big money for repairs, advertise it for sale instead of scraping and you might get lucky (some people love carina's) and start again on the bangornomics game.

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

I think you might get more than €150 for it
I'd throw the dice of bangernomics again if I was you, there's great value out there.

As would I.

Or play Russian roulette and keep driving it until the NCT is up/ it dies

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

Or play Russian roulette and keep driving it until the NCT is up/ it dies

Two tyres and drive it 'till NCT is up, if it wasn't for the injector issue I'd be 100% behind that idea

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

Two tyres and drive it 'till NCT is up, if it wasn't for the injector issue I'd be 100% behind that idea

Part worns FTW and the injector issue needs to be explained more.

Does the cutting out happen often?

BTW is it a 1.8L?

I've only ever heard of that happening with them

john.west

johnos1984 wrote: »

As would I.

Or play Russian roulette and keep driving it until the NCT is up/ it dies

Hmm, was half thinking that myself. I wonder what is the likelihood of an overdue belt snapping. As I say I'm circa 2k miles of belt change interval. I'm actually doing only 8k miles per annum these times if not less so I might be able to eek a fair wee bit more out of that one yet.

As for the car holding back at times, sometimes when it happens it does not feel reassuring in the slightest. I would need to pull over onto hard shoulder to let cars pass (assuming I'm lucky enough that there is a hard shoulder there when it happens). Otherwise it would cause a tailback any time its severe enough. The flip side is that although the problem has being occurring for some time at this stage, its never actually stalled on the road and eventually rights itself and shoots forward. It doesn't actually happen overly often either.

kermitpwee

john.west wrote: »

Hi all and best wishes for 2012.

I would appreciate yer kind assistance and input in my little predicament.

Almost two years back a guy ran into the back of me and totalled my lovely shiny Vectra. To save myself some dosh and as my annual mileage had reduced considerably at the time I decided to go down the bangernomics route. €570 later I had myself a 1997 Carina E 1.6. NCT'd for about 6 months and a few months tax on it. Car was in generally good order apart from needing a backbox which I knew when buying it.

Apart from that all I needed to do to it since, outside of routine maintenance was fit a new radiator as it developed a leak and rear brake shoes (perhaps they are routine maintenance you might say). Other than that I failed NCT on "corrosion" on a rear brake line which was not corroded by any means, tarnised at worst. Some emery cloth and brasso later and the car passed next time round so didn't actually change the brake line (or need to in the first place)...some of you may have previously seen another thread I had on that. Other than that can't fault the car at all too much. Its mundane motoring, perhaps bordering on crude by modern standards. But have never being stranded on the side of the road or landed with a massive repair bill which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for previous more expensive cars I've owned.

Alas though a few bills are now looming in the near future. Timing belt will need done in the next 2k miles or so. A figure of circa €300 has being mentioned to me for this. Two new tyres will be needed pretty soon. I'm thinking a figure of €90/ €100 possibly as they are only 14" rims. Passenger window regulator has snapped recently. I'm guessing about €60 of a breakers yard depending on where I go to but could be well of the mark on that one? I'm sure I'd fit it myself if I got a someway half dry Saturday afternoon if we ever see one of them again? Other than that the car sometimes goes practically dead on the road with me. Injectors have being mentioned to me as a likely culpurit. I have priced them with Toyota, being a dealer only option, €140 each, ouch, 4 of them would be rather expensive. Don't seem to see them on ebay and have being done with second rate tat from ebay before. I'd actually probably ignore the problem if I knew tha car wouldn't leave me stranded holding up a row of traffic or something like that...being there before and its not a very nice place to be, believe me! I suppose thogh diagnostics is the place to start to figure the problem out...more €€€€. Besides all that water is leaking into the footwell behind driver...quite a drop of it these days with the sh!te weather...it would seem from talking to others that Japanese cars are infamous enough for such leaks

So my question is do ye reckon I should spend what needs to be spent on the car or just go down the bangernomics route again? I suppose I could spend the same again and end up with a peach or indeed a lemon. I'm guessing I could sell the Carina for €150/ €200 to someone who needs it for parts or would want to fix it up and put it back on the road. It is still NCT'd until next August. In the meantime space to hang on to both cars would not be a problem in the slightest.

Any thoughts appreciated, and apologies for the long winded post.

The t/b will cost 160 to 200euro off a single man operation local mechanic. The belts on these can do 90000 without failing, up to you if you wanted to risk it.

The injectors can be got s/h for very little. When the car is running rough pop the high tension lead(very dangerous, and even more dangerous if your not car minded) up a little on each cylinder, the cylinder that doesn't change its noise has a faulty injector. Could just change the whole injector rail otherwise. Injector rail 75euro

Tyres would cost 40euro for crap to 55 for mid range nankangs.

Passenger window is 50 for a electric motor and 25 for a manual winder. Simple job.

I would run it to the next Nct, leave the belt till then and see what it needs, put two nankangs on at 55euro, don't fix the passenger window yet. If the car is running rough more frequently send it to a local mechanic with the injector rail you have bought and he should pop it on for 50-75 euro.

At the next test you may fail on brake lines, drop links and bushings in the back.
Good luck

johnos1984

I'd just keep driving it to be honest if money is tight/you're tight (joking)

Or else spend a bit of money and sort it.

Granted bangernomics is about getting a car and getting rid before a big bill arrives but in fairness you don't know what horrors the next car could have

john.west

john.west wrote: »

Hmm, was half thinking that myself. I wonder what is the likelihood of an overdue belt snapping. As I say I'm circa 2k miles of belt change interval............

If it's not too much past the change interval in years than it's remote enough on a car not know for snapping belts.

john.west

johnos1984 wrote: »

Part worns FTW and the injector issue needs to be explained more.

Does the cutting out happen often?

BTW is it a 1.8L?

I've only ever heard of that happening with them

No johnos, its 1.6 litre.

As per above the problem does not happen too severly often really. Maybe once every 100 miles at a random guess. Sometimes its more severe than others. It feels like the car is definately going to die on me, pretty much the same affect as if your just out of of petrol and running on fumes, if youv'e ever being unfortunate enough to experience such. Might run like this for 30/ 40 seconds. But touch wood it hasn't yet cut out, always rights itself eventually.

Mad_Mike

Just a thought, would it be a fuel filter problem?
Very cheap fix if so
Would the car be very low on petrol when it happens?

kermitpwee

Mad_Mike wrote: »

Just a thought, would it be a fuel filter problem?
Very cheap fix if so
Would the car be very low on petrol when it happens?

Good guess Mike but it is 100% the injector on these cars. People will say then why does it not happen all the time? The reason is that it is the electrical unit on the injector that loses resistance at certain heat temperatures. As a result it can be a sporadic problem till it fails all the time. The internals on the injector are perfect and any injector cleaner added to the fuel is useless as a result.

I have changed a few of these, and yes I changed many a fuel filter before I learn't the error of my ways!

RICARDO1982

These toyotas are great motors I wonder it may be worth putting a good fuel injector treatment into the petrol (BG 44k etc) , It may also be a sensor on the engine lambda sensor, crank sensor etc.

kermitpwee

john.west wrote: »

Might run like this for 30/ 40 seconds. But touch wood it hasn't yet cut out, always rights itself eventually.

Its defo an injector problem, don't worry you will limp home when it fails fully as it is only one injector that will have failed and the car will limp home slowly on 3 cylinders.

padma

Tbh a few months ago i'd say to keep fixing it as you know the car, but after my own experience of an old car, I kept throwing money at it, passed the N.C.T then lo and behold more problems cropped up, fixed them until I threw in the towel when the next big bill cropped up. So back on the bangernomics waiting for my N.C.T next week with it.

RICARDO1982

Scrap yard should have these injectors no problem if that is the route you want to try

kermitpwee

RICARDO1982 wrote: »

These toyotas are great motors I wonder it may be worth putting a good fuel injector treatment into the petrol (BG 44k etc) , It may also be a sensor on the engine lambda sensor, crank sensor etc.

No the injector treatment is useless as the problem is with the electrical unit on the injector rather than the internals.

The lambda sensor will not cause these probs in a carina e, the lambda runs a little different to other cars in that it runs of a value from the ecu which is set at a factory level that the car will run fine in a range of conditions and will still pass the emissions at the Nct even though the sensor is not working.

kermitpwee

padma wrote: »

Tbh a few months ago i'd say to keep fixing it as you know the car, but after my own experience of an old car, I kept throwing money at it, passed the N.C.T then lo and behold more problems cropped up, fixed them until I threw in the towel when the next big bill cropped up. So back on the bangernomics waiting for my N.C.T next week with it.

Not really relevant with a carina e as there are only so many things that go wrong with them, what car did you have?

john.west

kermitpwee wrote: »

The t/b will cost 160 to 200euro off a single man operation local mechanic. The belts on these can do 90000 without failing, up to you if you wanted to risk it.

The injectors can be got s/h for very little. When the car is running rough pop the high tension lead(very dangerous, and even more dangerous if your not car minded) up a little on each cylinder, the cylinder that doesn't change its noise has a faulty injector. Could just change the whole injector rail otherwise. Injector rail 75euro

Tyres would cost 40euro for crap to 55 for mid range nankangs.

Passenger window is 50 for a electric motor and 25 for a manual winder. Simple job.

I would run it to the next Nct, leave the belt till then and see what it needs, put two nankangs on at 55euro, don't fix the passenger window yet. If the car is running rough more frequently send it to a local mechanic with the injector rail you have bought and he should pop it on for 50-75 euro.

Sound advice kermitpwee. Except I'm not sure would I be as lucky as to get the belt done for that kind of money, labour and parts included and I'm driving away again. Not saying your wrong either but if your right my mechanic was surely pulling a fast one....not beyond the bounds of possibility at all. The fact that it may not snap until the 90k mark actually gives me some comfort. As I say at the rate I'm clocking up the mileage I don't expect to be too far past the recommended change interval come next NCT time. Most of the time I'm only carrying myself in the car or 2 passengers max so not like I'm ever putting it under severe strain.

I'm wondering would the second hand injectors be really hit and miss? Apparently they are a common enough failure item on that car, or so I've being told. Still, though better than lashing out €140 a pop surely. I've never actually seen it to run rough as if running on three cylinders when idling. Its more at motorway speeds above 60mph it tends to happen. That or going up a bit of an incline.

Two tyres come to think of it I can probably pick up from a guy not too deadly far from me who breaks cars and will sell you the tyres from under them after he has checked them...for cheaper than the figure I previously mentioned. I know some of ye's wont agree with that at all though. As for window regulator, I'm not overly fussed. As long as it stay up this weather it'll pass me for time being.

Thanks again.

padma

I'm too ashamed to say, but lets say bought for 650 spent 1 and a half grand on it, lasted two years got 50,000 miles out of it, Wishbones needing replacing and a new radiator made me finally give up the ghost. For sure I can see the merit in a Carina being kept on the road, but throwing the dice for a new bangernomic could be an exciting adventure for someone.

kermitpwee

john.west wrote: »

Sound advice kermitpwee. Except I'm not sure would I be as lucky as to get the belt done for that kind of money, labour and parts included and I'm driving away again. Not saying your wrong either but if your right my mechanic was surely pulling a fast one....not beyond the bounds of possibility at all. The fact that it may not snap until the 90k mark actually gives me some comfort. As I say at the rate I'm clocking up the mileage I don't expect to be too far past the recommended change interval come next NCT time. Most of the time I'm only carrying myself in the car or 2 passengers max so not like I'm ever putting it under severe strain.

I'm wondering would the second hand injectors be really hit and miss? Apparently they are a common enough failure item on that car, or so I've being told. Still, though better than lashing out €140 a pop surely. I've never actually seen it to run rough as if running on three cylinders when idling. Its more at motorway speeds above 60mph it tends to happen. That or going up a bit of an incline.

Two tyres come to think of it I can probably pick up from a guy not too deadly far from me who breaks cars and will sell you the tyres from under them after he has checked them...for cheaper than the figure I previously mentioned. I know some of ye's wont agree with that at all though. As for window regulator, I'm not overly fussed. As long as it stay up this weather it'll pass me for time being.

Thanks again.

The belt on the Carina e is a simple one to change so your local guy must be expensive, I am based in mayo where things are cheaper., I cant guarantee how long a belt will last but I would be very confident you could let it go 15k over.

Where are you based?

john.west

johnos1984 wrote: »

I'd just keep driving it to be honest if money is tight/you're tight (joking)

Or else spend a bit of money and sort it.

Granted bangernomics is about getting a car and getting rid before a big bill arrives but in fairness you don't know what horrors the next car could have

I'm begining to think along the same lines as you johnos and other contributors to the thread are convincing me in the same manner.

Oh and your right, I'm a tight git, no joke about it! Well seriously think the depreciation curve is almost vertical if you spend a lot of dosh on anything fancy these times....hence why I'm not going to...I'm a big dissapointment to some of ye motorheads no doubt:)

john.west

john.west wrote: »

................I'm a big dissapointment to some of ye motorheads no doubt:)

Cheap motoring is a science in itself :cool:

kermitpwee

padma wrote: »

I'm too ashamed to say, but lets say bought for 650 spent 1 and a half grand on it, lasted two years got 50,000 miles out of it, Wishbones needing replacing and a new radiator made me finally give up the ghost. For sure I can see the merit in a Carina being kept on the road, but throwing the dice for a new bangernomic could be an exciting adventure for someone.

No shame here at all, everyone makes mistakes, the first car I bought was a lemon off a dodgy mechanic, I got burned and said I would learn about cars and have bought very well since for small money, but even a wheeler dealer can buy a lemon an odd time.
Go on what was the car, I am guessing wishbones needed, maybe a vw or lexus?

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

Cheap motoring is a science in itself :cool:

Tell me about it

padma

kermitpwee wrote: »

No shame here at all, everyone makes mistakes, the first car I bought was a lemon off a dodgy mechanic, I got burned and said I would learn about cars and have bought very well since for small money, but even a wheeler dealer can buy a lemon an odd time.
Go on what was the car, I am guessing wishbones needed, maybe a vw or lexus?

A 99, citroen xsara, 1.4, needed a new timing belt when I bought, got it done with kit and water pump, 9 months later water pump failed and the camshaft oil seal was leaking on to the belt, sorted water pump from the motor factors with a replacement and got a new timing belt, two weeks later water pump failed again, redone again no problems, then handbrake cable snapped, needed new rear brake shoes, failed on emmissions, needed new cat, new fan belt, done, new back bushings, new c.v joint, all done.

Then the radiator was bent and leaking a bit of coolant, overheating on long journeys, mayonnaise forming on the oil cap and the two whishbones were fecked when I traded it in for a 97 1.4 civic sedan just b4 Christmas. The Civic seems very solid, just a bit worried about a small bit of rust which I'm waiting for a dry day to sand and seal and repaint for the N.C.T on Friday.

kermitpwee

padma wrote: »

A 99, citroen xsara, 1.4, needed a new timing belt when I bought, got it done with kit and water pump, 9 months later water pump failed and the camshaft oil seal was leaking on to the belt, sorted water pump from the motor factors with a replacement and got a new timing belt, two weeks later water pump failed again, redone again no problems, then handbrake cable snapped, needed new rear brake shoes, failed on emmissions, needed new cat, new fan belt, done, new back bushings, new c.v joint, all done.

Then the radiator was bent and leaking a bit of coolant, overheating on long journeys, mayonnaise forming on the oil cap and the two whishbones were fecked when I traded it in for a 97 1.4 civic sedan just b4 Christmas. The Civic seems very solid, just a bit worried about a small bit of rust which I'm waiting for a dry day to sand and seal and repaint for the N.C.T on Friday.

Very unlucky mate, I would say that who ever was doing your timing belt was putting it on too tight hence the need for all the water pumps, it was time to get rid in fairness. Good luck with the Nct, very good car those civics, better than a Carina I am led to believe.

john.west

Thanks for responses folks. Much appreciative. The thread is overtaking me at this stage. Appreciative to ye all and ye are convincing me to keep me oul banger going a while longer at this stage.

kermitpwee wrote: »

The belt on the Carina e is a simple one to change so your local guy must be expensive, I am based in mayo where things are cheaper., I cant guarantee how long a belt will last but I would be very confident you could let it go 15k over.

Where are you based?

I wouldn't put it past him either! I'm in Limerick county myself. You a mechanic yourself kermitpwee I'm guessing? If you are I'd happily give you the gig if you can do it for in or around the figure you mention and I'm actually hanging onto the car and you can take on the job. Thats all assuming its ok with your kind self but would eek it out for a few months yet though.

padma

I changed mechanics the second time around and he's not led me astray at all fortunately, but sure at the end of the day I got 50,000 miles out of her for just shy of 2 grand, for two years, but from now on when buying in the 90's and early 00's (future bangernomics :cool: it will be jap, those french cars seem hard to work with from that era.

john.west

john.west wrote: »

..........


I wouldn't put it past him either! I'm in Limerick county myself. You a mechanic yourself kermitpwee I'm guessing? If you are I'd happily give you the gig if you can do it for in or around the figure you mention.............

Limerick to Mayo for a timing belt change is a bit of a journey