BDO Lakeside 2012

scudzilla

Didn't see a thread so thought i'd start one.

What are people's opinions on this? I gonna put a tenner on Hankey, really think he could do it then jump ship, and at odds of 14/1 with PP i really can't ignore it.

mackeire

I really wish that the BDO was on before the PDC because it's going to be very hard to watch after the high standard of the PDC.

risteard7

Bdo is better i think more knowledgeable fans.Remember most of the top players in pdc now came from bdo

risteard7

scudzilla wrote: »

Didn't see a thread so thought i'd start one.

What are people's opinions on this? I gonna put a tenner on Hankey, really think he could do it then jump ship, and at odds of 14/1 with PP i really can't ignore it.

Yea i think hankey is a cracking bet at that price.I cant see adams winning again.whinstanley wiil be dangerous tho

mackeire

risteard7 wrote: »

Remember most of the top players in pdc now came from bdo

Exactly!!! The top players are now in the PDC. Its very hard to watch the likes of Jan Dekker vs Gary Robson.

It would be a nice warm up tournament to watch before the real World Championships!!

Sultan of Bling

risteard7 wrote: »

Bdo is better i think more knowledgeable fans.Remember most of the top players in pdc now came from bdo

True the fans are shall we say a little more boisterous in the PDC events but the quality of darts in the PDC is far superior. The players from the BDO jump ship for a reason, more tournaments and more tournaments = more money.

Back on topic my pick to win the BDO world championship woud be Dean Winstanley

mdwexford

Yeah I like the look of Winstanley as well.

risteard7

mackeire wrote: »

Exactly!!! The top players are now in the PDC. Its very hard to watch the likes of Jan Dekker vs Gary Robson.

It would be a nice warm up tournament to watch before the real World Championships!!

I know the pdc is better quality but the bdo aint that bad.If you take out taylor,anderson,wade and lewis i dont think theres much between the others.waites,winstanley,hankey and adams are just as good as lets say jenkins,whitlock,hamilton,or part. rant over:cool:

mackeire

risteard7 wrote: »

I know the pdc is better quality but the bdo aint that bad.If you take out taylor,anderson,wade and lewis i dont think theres much between the others.waites,winstanley,hankey and adams are just as good as lets say jenkins,whitlock,hamilton,or part. rant over:cool:

you have just named the only players that could compete in the PDC. Take those 4 out and all you're left with is just over pub standard.

They sometimes show something like that on tg4.

DB10

Part and Whitlock are streets ahead of the names you mentioned there.
All you need to do is look at the averages, they are usually miles apart.

Any of the top 20-30 PDC players could on their day win the BDO championship, the standard is average. Martin Adams would be no great shakes in the PDC his averages have never been that good compared to many in the PDC. Hamilton today had a 103 average, Adams and co wouldnt compete with that.

The only difference is the crowd. Proper crowd at the BDO and mostly idiots at the PDC just on the lash. I could at one stage today make out a guy staring into the stand from the table section not looking at the darts, dancing around for 20 minutes while he stood on a table egging others on. Security never bothered him.

I get the feeling Sky and the PDC could easily stop the crowd nonsense, cutting the cameras to the crowd every minute just eggs them on and the security is non existent.

What darts needs is stricter security at matches in the PDC. Anyway it only takes one idiot to put a player off and they arent all angels at the BDO either.

mdwexford

All 4 of those players would be favourite to beat Part in a match.

Whitlock is better than them but not better than Adams and Hankey by that much.

DB10

mdwexford wrote: »

All 4 of those players would be favourite to beat Part in a match.

Whitlock is better than them but not better than Adams and Hankey by that much.

Dont think so, none them are capable of performing like Part did today. Hankey cant handle in the GSOD, so him in the PDC, he wouldnt be upto it.

Part would win the BDO if he performed like today. Adams etc wouldn't be able to cope with the crowds, and anyway Part is a 3 time world PDC champ.

Look at the averages over the years, they arent comparable.

mdwexford

You're just letting the excitement of the game today make up your mind for you.

Part averaged 92 today, all 4 of those BDO players are capable of that on a normal day.

Take out a handful of the top PDC guys and the averages are somewhat comparable.
The top BDO guys would be fighting it out for top 10 spots in the PDC.

doomed

Do they ever have events that are open to both BDO and PDC?

risteard7

doomed wrote: »

Do they ever have events that are open to both BDO and PDC?

the Grand slam

I never get the PDC snobbery thing. A good game is a good game. The BDO has produced some classics. If the tension and drama are good, then it doesn't bother me that much if the average is slightly less. I could watch a good game of football on telly tonight and the fact that it is not some 9 goal thriller between Barca and Real wouldn't bother me.

dionsiseire

Nice to see the age old discussion start over and over again

Can I just point out some moot points
"All the top PDC players were BDO once"
Of course they were, County darts leads directly to BDO and playing for your country. ALL the players in the PDC have played BDO. There is a 128 player card system for the PDC, if you don't make it, you effectively go back to amateur circuit which despite it's owners thinking it's professional, the BDO is the amateur and county circuit of darts.

Bar the four players mentioned, the BDO doesn't have a single player who could contribute to regular progression in a PDC floor or TV tournament and the four mentioned I doubt their credentials bar Adams and Waites. Winstanley admitedly seems to be coming along nicely and could eventually be a PDC player if he continues to improve.

"Is the BDO World Championship the real world championship"
No it's the first and original but the games top players choose to participate in the PDC version, it's exactly like when the Premier League broke away from the football league, eventually there will be acceptance and the BDO will restructure into a full time amateur circuit becoming a feeding ground for Q-school and a progression route for players currently without cards.

"Are the averages that different"
Yes, barring the four or so top BDO players, there is nobody churning out with any degree of regularity, 90+ averages. If people care to disagree with that assesment provide fact and stats because outside of Adams, O'Shea, Winstanley, Hankey and Waites there truly isn't any players hitting the 90+ too often.

"Is the BDO championship worth watching"
Yes anyone who loves darts will love watching a tight fought game regardless of average but the problem with the BDO doesn't start or end with the lower averages, it 100% comes down to the shoddy coverage it is given each year on BBC. Perhaps Setanta will provide 100% coverage of it this year, somehow I doubt it. There is no guaruntee you will get to watch the full match before they cut to other programming and those on UPC or Free to air don't have a RED button to press to continue watching.

"Are the crowds a big factor"
Hell no, If the PDC players can perform at 100+ averages consistently with that kind of abuse from crowds then what is the BDO's players excuses? They have the respect and still can't reach the heights. Lewis might bemoan the crowd but he'll soon have to realise that they are there to stay.

Also this debate of the crowds being too boisterous is silly, the camera's cutting to a few people who cheer is rather moot too as is the pretty girl syndrome I've seen discussed, There are chants and cheers and banter regardless and the players jobs is to tune it out. Phil Taylor has been tuning it out successfully for years whilst improving his average all the time. The other players if they want the glitz, glamour and pay days that come with being a Professional Darts player need to learn to deal with the crowds and noise and block it out or wear earplugs or whatever they need to do. Blaming the crowds is a cop out at this stage. Yes there are some overly zealous booing and shouts of miss, but it's a wall of sound behind you, it is worse if one person shouts it than 6000.

"Are darts crowds there for the darts"
Not on your nelly, they hear it's a great night out and an excuse to dress up when it's not halloween or be on TV and they are drawn to it. This is unfortunately for the real fans of darts and is the one big drawback of the game becoming so popular over the last few years.

dartbhoy

Really looking forward to the 35th staging of the BDO Lakeside World Championship. While the field is dominated by UK and Dutch players this is still a great event which all darts fans look forward to.

Looking at the draw from the top half I'd expect Martin Adams to reach the final from here. He has avoided the big guns in Hankey,Waites and Winstanley who're all in the 2nd half of the draw. Adams plays Scott Mitchell in the 1st round and while many would expect Adams to walk that Mitchell has been playing well lately and he took Adams to a deciding set recently in the Zuiderduin Masters in Holland. Maybe a shock could happen here? The big game in the top half of the draw is Robbie Green v Darryl Fitton,2 players more than capable when on form to put it up to Adams.

The 2nd half of the draw sees a potential 2nd round clash between Waites v Hankey. Waites is in cracking form going into this after winning the Winmau World Masters and the Zuiderduin Masters in the past few months. Hankey though has been playing well recently and It wouldn't surprise me if they potentially meet that Hankey would win. Winstanley was very impressive in the recent Grand Slam and also reached the final of this year's Winmau World Masters. With the draw he has he should comfortably reach the semi finals where I reckon he could potentially meet Hankey.

I see a repeat of the 2011 final happening in 2012 with Adams v Winstanley but this time Winstanley winning and ending the dreams of Adams equalling Bristow's 3 in a row record.

dartbhoy

For all those of you interested in betting on Winstanley I backed him this morning at Boylesports,got 6/1 on him which I think is the best price on offer for him.

abouttobebanned

Philips was brilliant in the Grand Slam and after watching him through that I was expecting to see a shortish price for this. He's 18-1 and I've had a piece of it.

sc86

how are winstanly and phillips such long odds
its a poor quaility field and they are definitly 2 of the best in the bdo

JacksonHeightsOwn

I just saw an add for this on ESPN.

I can't belive ESPN are going to waste their money on this, on the plus side at least ill have it in HD

chrisbonnie

chrisbonnie wrote: »

I just saw an add for this on ESPN.

I can't belive ESPN are going to waste their money on this, on the plus side at least ill have it in HD

But ESPN show college football, and millions tune in, even though some could moan and say its not the NFL and its not professional. I presume they show golf tournaments that are not the Masters, rugby matches that are not the World Cup, they may even show teams like Ireland playing soccer when of course real soccer fans (if they think the same way as some darts fans) would sneer and say they'd only watch Spain or Brazil.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Conor74 wrote: »

chrisbonnie wrote: »

I just saw an add for this on ESPN.

I can't belive ESPN are going to waste their money on this, on the plus side at least ill have it in HD

But ESPN show college football, and millions tune in, even though some could moan and say its not the NFL and its not professional. I presume they show golf tournaments that are not the Masters, rugby matches that are not the World Cup, they may even show teams like Ireland playing soccer when of course real soccer fans (if they think the same way as some darts fans) would sneer and say they'd only watch Spain or Brazil.

I mean ESPN UK of course, that's completely different to what's shown on ESPN in the U.S

Lemegeton

can we not do this again .... please.
every year the BDO thread descends into another PDC vs BDO argument. Can we just accept that they are different entities with a different standard of player and debate the BDO tournament on its own merit.

I just dont want to see Martin Adams win again. Hankey showed a big improvement in the Grand Slam this year so id stick a bet on him.

does anyone know if the BBC will still have live games on the red button or have they only got highlights this year

abouttobebanned

Same as every year...live behind red button..occasional glimpses of it then on the main station

dartbhoy

Lemegeton wrote: »

can we not do this again .... please.
every year the BDO thread descends into another PDC vs BDO argument. Can we just accept that they are different entities with a different standard of player and debate the BDO tournament on its own merit.

I just dont want to see Martin Adams win again. Hankey showed a big improvement in the Grand Slam this year so id stick a bet on him.

does anyone know if the BBC will still have live games on the red button or have they only got highlights this year

As far as I'm aware the BBC are covering the day sessions on Saturday Jan 7th and Sunday Jan 8th live. The first game on opening day is on the red button only but after that all games are live on the mainstream channel on those days.

The evening sessions from Jan 7th-Jan 13th are been covered live on ESPN only with no coverage on BBC red button. BBC have a late night highlights package each day covering the evening sessions.

On Jan 14th BBC will be showing 1 semi final live and ESPN the other live. BBC are showing the final live on Jan 15th. For those that don't have ESPN I'm sure streams will be available online to view the darts.

dartbhoy

Here is the draw in full with the all the times of the 1st round games,link; www.bdodarts.com/1579/31-12-2011/HAPPY_NEW_YEAR

The Monday evening session is been shown live on ESPN Classic. Anyone with the sky entertainment extra package will have that channel.

Fits Morris

Can't wait for the tournament. The PDC action over the last couple of weeks has certainly whetted my appetite, but there's nothing to match Lakeside with its history and tradition. This year's field is certainly one of the highest standards I can recall. Wolfie, Waites and Winstanley are the three favourites, but Darryl Fitton played some great darts at Zuiderduin and has to be a contender. Then there's the old favourites such as Ted Hankey, John "Boy" Walton, Tony O'Shea and Martin Phillips, as well as the consistent county circuit players like Robbie Green (Kong), Stephen Bunting, Ross Boss "the Boss" Montgomery and Garry Thompson. Jan "Double" Dekker can't be ruled out with his ruthlessness on the doubles. And there's always a very good chance of a dark horse coming through the field as happens so often. So a great tournament is in store certainly.

mdwexford

Good to see our resident BDO champion back this year.

Hello Mr Adams.

minty16

Phillips looks absolutely super value if nothing else at 20/1 with Boyles and SJ.

gramar

Deleted User wrote: »

But ESPN show college football, and millions tune in, even though some could moan and say its not the NFL and its not professional. I presume they show golf tournaments that are not the Masters, rugby matches that are not the World Cup, they may even show teams like Ireland playing soccer when of course real soccer fans (if they think the same way as some darts fans) would sneer and say they'd only watch Spain or Brazil.

Well said.

gramar

I prefer the BDO to the PDC. It's more authentic and I think your average pub player can identify with it more than the PDC which is a bit more hollywood glam.
There is no doubt that the darts are not of the same quality overall but the there are some great battles and incredible tension at times.

Fits Morris

gramar wrote: »

I prefer the BDO to the PDC. It's more authentic and I think your average pub player can identify with it more than the PDC which is a bit more hollywood glam.
There is no doubt that the darts are not of the same quality overall but the there are some great battles and incredible tension at times.

I'm not against the PDC and I enjoy their tournament but I too prefer the BDO. The darts in the PDC is of a high standard and that's great but the Sky hype, the dancing girls and the drunken crowds shouting abuse is quite off-putting. There are more characters in the BDO and the atmosphere at Lakeside is second to none. I also feel that there is a constant attempt from PDC people to belittle the BDO and the standard of dartsa there which I find objectionable and very small minded, as well as downright false as the standard is excellent. Personally I think the game actually benefits from having two World Championships.

mdwexford

Anyone who doesn't like the hype and dancing girls are strange imo. BDO is ok, it's not a patch on the PDC though

dartbhoy

What the BDO players are suffering from IMO is a complete lack of TV exposure. Some of these players are producing outstanding averages in floor tournaments every weekend but then when it comes to Lakeside they freeze in front of the cameras and don't produce their best darts and not playing enough times on TV is a lot to blame IMO.

mdwexford

mdwexford wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't like the hype and dancing girls are strange imo. BDO is ok, it's not a patch on the PDC though

I don't much like the hype. All close ups and slow mo shots. Pffft. Get on with it.

My wife isn't in to the dancing girls. She's just not a big fan of t n a.

I guess we're both half strange...

StephenHendry

personally i love both the pdc and bdo wc. ok so the averages, standard in some of the bdo wc games mightn't be as high as in the pdc but having said that the last bdo finals were very exciting and enjoyable to watch. we could have a very good game early on if waites and hankey meet each other in round 2. wolfie will be hard to beat, due to his consistency.

TheBigEvil

The BDO is the non-league of Darts. They can barely scrape together 32 palyers for the "world", and I use that word losely", title. Only two tournaments on TV, and most of it shown at 11pm at night,

All the talent and competition is in the PDC, This years World title had some of the best matches, and two epic semi finals. Love the fact that there is wall to wall darts at christmas, and loads of tourneys duing the year, including the Premier league. awesome!

I suppose if you enjoy knitting, then the BDO is for you....nice day out, having a pint, read a I paper and the darts are on the the background...

TheBigEvil

TheBigEvil wrote: »

I suppose if you enjoy knitting, then the BDO is for you....nice day out, having a pint, read a I paper and the darts are on the the background...

The Big Evil? Wrestling fan by any chance?

Hmmmmm. I suppose if you enjoy sweaty men in tights and a nice line in choreographed moves...have you ever thought of moving up to ballet?

dartbhoy

Latest betting odds from onsite bookmaker at Lakeside Coral,link; www.bdodarts.com/newsitem.aspx?nid=1582

Winstanley,Hankey and Phillips all attracting interest.

monkey9

I'd have to go for Winstanley to win this

TheBigEvil

Deleted User wrote: »

The Big Evil? Wrestling fan by any chance?

Hmmmmm. I suppose if you enjoy sweaty men in tights and a nice line in choreographed moves...have you ever thought of moving up to ballet?

Hmm how are you making a link from my user name to watching wrestling?? Sounds like you like sweaty men in tights..

Sorry I hit a nerve, didnt think the BDO had much of a following, but there you go...we found their fan...

go get your pipe and slippers and lookforward to getting the kettle on at 11:30pm to watch their full highlights coverage :rolleyes:

Kingp35

TheBigEvil wrote: »

go get your pipe and slippers and lookforward to getting the kettle on at 11:30pm to watch their full highlights coverage :rolleyes:

Every game that isn't shown live on BBC will be shown live on ESPN this year so need for BBC's terrible highlights show.

TheBigEvil

Kingp35 wrote: »

Every game that isn't shown live on BBC will be shown live on ESPN this year so need for BBC's terrible highlights show.

Game changer......cool....so are they finally getting their sh!t together?

Barney might return!

BOHtox

When is the final?

TheBigEvil

TheBigEvil wrote: »

Hmm how are you making a link from my user name to watching wrestling?? Sounds like you like sweaty men in tights..

Sorry I hit a nerve, didnt think the BDO had much of a following, but there you go...we found their fan...

You possibly do not know a huge amount about darts and you may well be carried away by all the Sky hype because it is all a bit exciting, but I'd be fairly comfortable the viewing figures for the BDO outstrip those of the PDC. I doubt I'll be alone watching it.

As for the wrestling link, is this not you selling tickets to Wrestlemania?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71580787

No? Same name, same pic etc. etc. You sure that's not you? Could it be someone hacking into your account?

So that's how I made the link between your name and wrestling. Was I wrong? You sure? Oh and Google tells me the Big Evil is the sometime name for a wrestler called the Undertaker. Why are you trying to hide your love for wrestling? You think people will take you more seriously on sports or something?

As I was saying, sweaty men in tights...

dartbhoy

9 times and reigning Ladies World Champion Trina Gulliver will be defending her title despite the sad passing of her mother in the early hours of this morning,link; www.bdodarts.com/newsitem.aspx?nid=1586

JacksonHeightsOwn

Wolfie vs Mitchell just on now

Even enough game but the standard is quite low. The only thing that's bothering me is the BBC shoddy camera work

ANAPOLIS

22 darts to win the first leg

16 for scotty to win 2nd

20 darts 3rd leg

17 darts for wolfie to win the set.

poor effort so far in the opening game of the tournament.


18 gets scotty off the mark in the 1st leg

12 darts for wolfie

15 darts and another 100+ checkout puts wolfie in the driving seat.

15 darts gets wolfie the set

16 for wolfie

19 darts sees scotty win a poor leg

13 sees wolfie home comfortably

24 darts for scotty to tie it up at 2 legs apiece

17 darts sees the champ through.

johnny_cash

I don't want to start a pdc vs bdo argument but the first two games here have been terrible