connacht v leinster sunday 1st jan sportsground

seanin4711

i am at a loss.
what do the rest of you think?
only one winner here.
if Niall o Connor starts this game i will not be attending anymore games in the sportsground.
Jarvis is the only player capable of getting back line moving.

molloyjh

seanin4711 wrote: »

i am at a loss.
what do the rest of you think?
only one winner here.
if Niall o Connor starts this game i will not be attending anymore games in the sportsground.
Jarvis is the only player capable of getting back line moving.

As a Leinster fan this game worries me. Yes Connachts run of form has been poor but that won't last forever and they are most likely to break that losing streak in the Sportsground. They have little fear of us, especially at home, and will be looking to prove a point. I'm expecting a tough enough game which will be a lot closer than most would expect. I don't think NOC will start and being honest would be happy enough with a LBP.

crisco10

Fear this as well to be honest, Connacht always save their best for Leinster. With guys like Tonetti, Mcsherry who have a point to prove as well. has banana skin written all over it.

GerM

Logic, form and ability suggest Leinster should ease to a win. I think they will win. But Connacht absolutely love sticking it to Leinster in Galway and there's never a handy win there. Think it will be a very close fought win for Leinster with a good scare.

danthefan

Very tight non-BP win for Leinster is my guess. Thought Connacht could definitely sneak it. Definitely won't be any sort of hammering imo.

totallegend

All depends on the team Leinster put out, any sort of a strong side would hope to put Connacht away, but this ireland training session could put a spanner in the works.

buck65

Connacht were miserable in Thomond with a fairly strong team. Leinster should win this handy enough even with a weakened side.

porterbelly

Ah You, O Donoghue, Gannon, Johnny O Connor, Griffin, Reyneke all doubtful

Dave Nolan, Loxton, Browne, Ofisa, McCrea all definitely out

Tox56

I know it's a bogey fixture, but I think Leinster's strength in depth will be too much, especially after most of the Connacht team played in the Munster match.

Will probably be wrong though.

almighty1

totallegend wrote: »

but this ireland training session could put a spanner in the works.

So whats the likely knock on effect for Leinster?
Generally all players that went to WC not being available?

durkadurka

It'll be:

Nacewa,
D Kearney
Eom
macken??
Carr
Madigan
Cooney??

Vdm
Strauss
White/hagan
Browne
Cullen
Mcloughlin
Ruddock
Auvaa

As a guess.

almighty1

durkadurka wrote: »

It'll be:

Nacewa,
D Kearney
Eom
macken??
Carr
Madigan
Cooney??

Vdm
Strauss
White/hagan
Browne
Cullen
Mcloughlin
Ruddock
Auvaa

As a guess.

Would be interested who will take the place kicks? Nacewa or Madigan.

porterbelly

almighty1 wrote: »

Would be interested who will take the place kicks? Nacewa or Madigan.

Just be thankful it's not Niall O Connor

GerM

If Leinster are shorn of both Boss and Reddan, could we be looking at Luke McGrath's senior debut potentially from the bench? Surely not going to be the case. Possibly more likely to go with an extra back covering 9 in case of emergency than a light enough kid just out of school?

chris85

almighty1 wrote: »

Would be interested who will take the place kicks? Nacewa or Madigan.

Nacewa. Madigan is probably fourth choice kicker. The list is as follows:

Sexton
Nacewa
McFadden
Madigan

Thats how I see it at moment and how its played out in games.

CIARAN_BOYLE

chris85 wrote: »

Nacewa. Madigan is probably fourth choice kicker. The list is as follows:

Sexton
Nacewa
McFadden
Madigan

Thats how I see it at moment and how its played out in games.

I hink McFadden has moved ahead of Nacewa this season

Burgo

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I hink McFadden has moved ahead of Nacewa this season

Yeah McFadden is definitely ahead of Nacewa.

ktulu123

Would be nervous of this match. Connacht always put in a performance against Leinster. A win would be great and a losing bonus point would be grand.

chris85

Burgo wrote: »

Yeah McFadden is definitely ahead of Nacewa.

Was unsure when writing that either between 2nd and 3rd. McFadden done great with the boot against Ulster.

Podge_irl

McFadden is an absolutely beautiful kicker of the ball. Keeps it nice and low too which means the wind affects it less. Some of the kicks he has put inthis season have been phenomenol.

wixfjord

Always nervous of Connacht in the sportsground, a lot will depend on whether we have any access to the Irish players or not, and probably not.

A 9/10 of Cooney and Madigan would make it a lot more difficult for us.

Anyone know who is reffing?

Tox56

Assuming the wind at the Sportground is as per normal, it should equal terrible conditions for kickers. Whilst I would like to see Madigan start taking the responsibility of the kicks, the Sportsground probably isn't the best place to start.

chris85

Tox56 wrote: »

Assuming the wind at the Sportground is as per normal, it should equal terrible conditions for kickers. Whilst I would like to see Madigan start taking the responsibility of the kicks, the Sportsground probably isn't the best place to start.

Hes not a good kicker. A lot of this can be taught to him on the training ground and then put into practice on the pitch. Its a pity as a decent outhalf but this will not help his career.

He had a bad final schools cup match when younger. Think he missed final kick to win a round game to get through to the quarters. Was missed and they got knocked out early for the first time in years.

decisions

Would love to be able to go: Yep, Easy Leinster BP. Next.

But I'm just not that confident, yes Connacht have not been playing to there best recently but the backline if/when it gets moving it could cause us some problems. And yous have a recent history of pulling it out of the bag and giving us a really good game.

Zzippy

Hopefully Swifty will be back for this one, especially if Gannon is injured.
Elwood simply HAS TO DROP Niall O'Connor and give Jarvis a chance. Even Jack Carty would be a better pick at this stage.
If Swifty is back I'd like to see a backrow of Mul, JOC and George back to 8, he's had enough games to get match fitness and is looking a bit fitter now.

All depends on the team Leinster pick, even their 2nd team has the ability to beat us if they play well, but its time this losing streak was ended, and this is a great opportunity. Would love to see another score like this one:

wixfjord

chris85 wrote: »

Hes not a good kicker. A lot of this can be taught to him on the training ground and then put into practice on the pitch. Its a pity as a decent outhalf but this will not help his career.

He had a bad final schools cup match when younger. Think he missed final kick to win a round game to get through to the quarters. Was missed and they got knocked out early for the first time in years.

Where does this stuff come from? There's been this uproar from the media and naysayers on here about Madigan not kicking and it's hilarious.
He's a huge boot now, and if you remember the previous Connacht game, he kicked a drop goal and very long penalty.
The reason he doesn't kick for Leinster is there's generally a more experienced kicker on the pitch with him, not because he's a poor kicker.
You're basing your whole opinion on one schools cup game?


He may not be a Sexton or ROG yet, but for now he doesn't need to be. You can learn to kick better, but the raw running and passing talent which Madigan has is just inbuilt.

We seem to have to knock down a young talent with stuff like "oh he can't kick" despite the fact we've never seen him kick in senior pro rugby.

This is the sort of tripe that Hook was going on about last week!

Tox56

This is a rare match where having virtually no internationals, against a team full of internationals, is actually an advantage. This IRFU thing will certainly favour Connacht. They can play their regular team, with combinations they are used to, whereas Leinster will have to be a little bit stitched together.

Still see a Leinster win, due to fabulous strength in depth, but wouldn't be surprised if Connacht get something.

porterbelly

Swifty won't be back so I'd say George will go again at lock

**** it, I don't care if we get beaten out the gate as long as we try something a bit different

Get George back at 8, Ross and Healy won't be playing so the scrum won't be as big an issue. George needs to step it up as well, he's been well below par all season. Throw Mick Kearney in the 2nd row, Gannon has looked knackered for the last 2 games. Put Tonetti onto the wing and see how he goes. I wouldn't let Vainikolo carry the water after what he did the last day. Both half backs shouldn't be in the squad after the way they performed in Thomond

1. Wilko
2. Reyneke
3. Loughney
4. Kearney
5. McCarthy
6. Muldoon
7. O Connor
8. Naoupu
9. O Donoghue
10. Jarvis
11. O halloran
12. McSharry
13. Griffin
14. Tonetti
15. Duffy

16. Flavin
17. Buckley
18. Rogers
19. McKeon
20. Grace
21. Nikora
22. Moore
23. Layden

roycon

chris85 wrote: »

Hes not a good kicker. A lot of this can be taught to him on the training ground and then put into practice on the pitch. Its a pity as a decent outhalf but this will not help his career.

He had a bad final schools cup match when younger. Think he missed final kick to win a round game to get through to the quarters. Was missed and they got knocked out early for the first time in years.

a senior cup quarter final against kilkenny cant be the basis for judging you for the rest of your life. his technique to me seems more natural and better than both mcfadden and definitely nacewas unorthodox technique and hes been proven to have an absolutely huge boot. over the next year i suspect he'll be kicking more and more. hes always out practicing goal kicking on the astro in ucd with all the other outhalfs so i dont see why he can take over the reigns once he gains a bit more seniority and experience.

roycon

porterbelly wrote: »

Swifty won't be back so I'd say George will go again at lock

**** it, I don't care if we get beaten out the gate as long as we try something a bit different

Get George back at 8, Ross and Healy won't be playing so the scrum won't be as big an issue. George needs to step it up as well, he's been well below par all season. Throw Mick Kearney in the 2nd row, Gannon has looked knackered for the last 2 games. Put Tonetti onto the wing and see how he goes. I wouldn't let Vainikolo carry the water after what he did the last day. Both half backs shouldn't be in the squad after the way they performed in Thomond

1. Wilko
2. Reyneke
3. Loughney
4. Kearney
5. McCarthy
6. Muldoon
7. O Connor
8. Naoupu
9. O Donoghue
10. Jarvis
11. O halloran
12. McSharry
13. Griffin
14. Tonetti
15. Duffy

16. Flavin
17. Buckley
18. Rogers
19. McKeon
20. Grace
21. Nikora
22. Moore
23. Layden

i think griffin on the wing and tonetti in the centre woould be a better option. i dont think tonetti has ever really played wing before

chris85

wixfjord wrote: »

Where does this stuff come from? There's been this uproar from the media and naysayers on here about Madigan not kicking and it's hilarious.
He's a huge boot now, and if you remember the previous Connacht game, he kicked a drop goal and very long penalty.
The reason he doesn't kick for Leinster is there's generally a more experienced kicker on the pitch with him, not because he's a poor kicker.
You're basing your whole opinion on one schools cup game?


He may not be a Sexton or ROG yet, but for now he doesn't need to be. You can learn to kick better, but the raw running and passing talent which Madigan has is just inbuilt.

We seem to have to knock down a young talent with stuff like "oh he can't kick" despite the fact we've never seen him kick in senior pro rugby.

This is the sort of tripe that Hook was going on about last week!

Easy on now. I am not knocking him down at all. I have said he is a good out half and I think he has a good future, however he needs to improve on his kicking and force himself up the pecking order for place kicking. He has a long boot but is not good enough to be competing with the others. Hes an out half this will not help his career wherever he ends up. He needs to improve and force himself ahead of McFadden in order to develop in his position.

Can any criticism be taken as constructive these days?

roycon wrote: »

a senior cup quarter final against kilkenny cant be the basis for judging you for the rest of your life. his technique to me seems more natural and better than both mcfadden and definitely nacewas unorthodox technique and hes been proven to have an absolutely huge boot. over the next year i suspect he'll be kicking more and more. hes always out practicing goal kicking on the astro in ucd with all the other outhalfs so i dont see why he can take over the reigns once he gains a bit more seniority and experience.

It was just a note on it. Now major observation to it, just something I was putting out there. Same points as said to wixfjord above I think he needs to get better and force himself into a higher order for kicking.

porterbelly

roycon wrote: »

i think griffin on the wing and tonetti in the centre woould be a better option. i dont think tonetti has ever really played wing before

He came on there v Glos away early and did very well

wixfjord

chris85 wrote: »

Easy on now. I am not knocking him down at all. I have said he is a good out half and I think he has a good future, however he needs to improve on his kicking and force himself up the pecking order for place kicking. He has a long boot but is not good enough to be competing with the others. Hes an out half this will not help his career wherever he ends up. He needs to improve and force himself ahead of McFadden in order to develop in his position.

Can any criticism be taken as constructive these days?



It was just a note on it. Now major observation to it, just something I was putting out there. Same points as said to wixfjord above I think he needs to get better and force himself into a higher order for kicking.

That's fair enough if you think he should improve his kicking before he becomes a better player, and he certainly does, but your quote was a definitive "hes not a good kicker.", and you based that on one schools game! That's what I was taking exception to, as I don't agree with this Hookesque thing of knocking a player down before we've even seen him kick in the Rabo.

Hagz

wixfjord wrote: »

That's fair enough if you think he should improve his kicking before he becomes a better player, and he certainly does, but your quote was a definitive "hes not a good kicker.", and you based that on one schools game! That's what I was taking exception to, as I don't agree with this Hookesque thing of knocking a player down before we've even seen him kick in the Rabo.

In fairness wixfjord, it's not just a schools game. He has attempted to kick at goal for Leinster before in the magners, and his attempts have been quite poor. Now he might have improved in that aspect, but you can only go by what you've seen.

Personally I don't believe in this whole, "if he wants to progress he'll have to improve at kicking at goal". Tactical kicking certainly, but at goal I'm not so sure. McFadden has shown that he is a fine kicker, and young McGrath is equally impressive. There's no need for such reliance on out-halves to kick at goal.

molloyjh

Bad kickers don't tend to score penalties from within their own half. Just saying.....

wixfjord

Hagz wrote: »

In fairness wixfjord, it's not just a schools game. He has attempted to kick at goal for Leinster before in the magners, and his attempts have been quite poor. Now he might have improved in that aspect, but you can only go by what you've seen.

Personally I don't believe in this whole, "if he wants to progress he'll have to improve at kicking at goal". Tactical kicking certainly, but at goal I'm not so sure. McFadden has shown that he is a fine kicker, and young McGrath is equally impressive. There's no need for such reliance on out-halves to kick at goal.

His point was based on the schools game though.

When has he kicked for Leinster in the ML before? I've only seen him do it once as far as I remember.

Hagz

wixfjord wrote: »

His point was based on the schools game though.

When has he kicked for Leinster in the ML before? I've only seen him do it once as far as I remember.

Oh apologies, I wasn't aware of that.

He's kicked twice this season. One that he slotted over from near half-way, and another that he missed from a similar distance. He's also kicked a couple times last year from a closer range with no success. Wouldn't be able to tell you the exact games, for obvious reasons. From simple observation, he appears to be a similar kicker to Kearney, in that he can bang them from quite a distance but has difficulty with accuracy.

I'd love to see him take on the responsibility when he's playing, unless it would affect his confidence in other aspects.

wixfjord

Hagz wrote: »

Oh apologies, I wasn't aware of that.

He's kicked twice this season. One that he slotted over from near half-way, and another that he missed from a similar distance. He's also kicked a couple times last year from a closer range with no success. Wouldn't be able to tell you the exact games, for obvious reasons. From simple observation, he appears to be a similar kicker to Kearney, in that he can bang them from quite a distance but has difficulty with accuracy.

I'd love to see him take on the responsibility when he's playing, unless it would affect his confidence in other aspects.

I'm just asking because I don't remember him kicking at all last year for goal, or the other game he kicked in this year? Maybe someone can.

I just find it hilarious that this is an issue at all, and really indicative of the Irish psyche that we need to knock a young guy who possibly has shown more promise than any other young player this year, based on evidence that isn't really there.

For all we know he could be a ROG standard kicker, and chomping at the bit to kick, but Joe wants the three ahead of him to take the weight off.

It's also only going to be blown up further by Hook's drivel last week. Whatever knowledge we have of him kicking, and I'm sure someone on here has seen him kick for Blackrock and would know a lot more than me, Hook certainly is in no position to spew out stuff about a 21 year old OH's kicking. Hook doesn't know the nuances of international players, never mind young Rabo players.

Hagz

I agree regarding this constraining notion that out 10s must kick.

Although I do think Hook was talking about field kicking as opposed to off the tee.

durkadurka

I saw nacewa offer him a kick at the end of a game once and he turned it down which I thought was odd. Can't remember which game . I vaguely thing that madigan had just scored so maybe he was out of breath or something.

I'd like to see him push to at least take a few towards the end of a game.

Takeabath

I was in madigans year and played rugby with him. He's a superb kicker however it seems that one miss against Kilkenny in the sct will never be forgotten. I'd have him ahead of even O'gara at the moment

profitius

Maybe Madigan deserves his own thread since theres so much talk about him?

I don't think he needs to be a good kicker to have a good career but it does help. However if Leinster/Ireland continue to develop kickers in different positions it can only be good for different sort of 10s like Madigan.

chris85

wixfjord wrote: »

That's fair enough if you think he should improve his kicking before he becomes a better player, and he certainly does, but your quote was a definitive "hes not a good kicker.", and you based that on one schools game! That's what I was taking exception to, as I don't agree with this Hookesque thing of knocking a player down before we've even seen him kick in the Rabo.

I didnt base it on one moment. It was a schools game 4 years ago. He has not entered highly in the kicking pecking order and that speaks for itself.

chris85

profitius wrote: »

Maybe Madigan deserves his own thread since theres so much talk about him?

I don't think he needs to be a good kicker to have a good career but it does help. However if Leinster/Ireland continue to develop kickers in different positions it can only be good for different sort of 10s like Madigan.

Issue being if he becomes 10 for Ireland and is say on the bench behind Sexton what happens if he goes in at 10 and McFadden not there. Creates a problem for the coach where if he wants Madigan he must also provide place kickers to support him. Creates more hassle.

Hopefully he can improve his place kicking and will be all sorted. I like his style of play.

CatFromHue

Hagz wrote: »

I agree regarding this constraining notion that out 10s must kick.

Although I do think Hook was talking about field kicking as opposed to off the tee.

He was. He wanted Madigan to kick for field position and to bring the forwards more into the game as we were much stronger up front than they were.

ambid

durkadurka wrote: »

I saw nacewa offer him a kick at the end of a game once and he turned it down which I thought was odd. Can't remember which game . I vaguely thing that madigan had just scored so maybe he was out of breath or something.

I'd like to see him push to at least take a few towards the end of a game.

It was the Bath game in Lansdowne. Madigan had just scored his try and Nacewa offered him the ball but he shook his head.

Anybody remember Paul Dean - Ireland's fly half on the 1985 triple crown winning team? He was an outstanding player, a brilliant running and passing fly half but he didn't take the kicks at goal.

As for Madigan's goalkicking, a couple of missed kicks in school and his first Leinster matches are clearly not relevant. Sexton scored only 40% of his kicks at goal in the world cup so does anyone also write him off as a bad goalkicker? Madigan's doing fine.

Profitus is right though, this issue is taking over the match thread and Madigan should have his own.

durkadurka

Yeah I remember Dean. Marys man, really quick hands.
Kiernan took the kicks, and for a while the only reason he was in the team was his placekicking.
And that's the problem I think. If your outhalf isn't the kicker then you need to make sure someone else is. So mc fadden gets picked ahead of a better winger perhaps.

freyners

an advantage of starting tonetti on the wing is it allowd him and griffin to swap in/out if one of them feel tired, saw griffin mentioned that in the times a week ago. still having to play a lad we signed as a centre to play wing because the backup is so poor says alot, when are touhy/mccrea (who had a howler himself v treviso) expected back??

porterbelly

Tuohy is fit but out of favour

On watching the game again, besides the howler for the try, Vainikolo looked ok, bit of pace and power with the ball. However, the mistake he made is inexcusable and for fear that it could happen again he must be jettisoned.

I'd love if Shane Layden got a run, but as I've said before, given Eric's conservative selection policy, it's very unlikely.

Selection policy must see some sort of change. Putting the same team out, week in week out and expecting different results is insanity. At least by giving a couple of fringe or young lads a chance it keeps the squad fresh, the lads on their toes, and a bit of hunger coming into the team. Even starting Kearney, Layden, Jarvis and O Donoghue would shake things up a bit.

phog

ambid wrote: »

As for Madigan's goalkicking, a couple of missed kicks in school and his first Leinster matches are clearly not relevant. Sexton scored only 40% of his kicks at goal in the world cup so does anyone also write him off as a bad goalkicker? Madigan's doing fine.

You cant really compare Madigan's misses to Sexton or ROG as both have more than proved themselves in pressure games and by the sound of your posts that is something that Madigan has yet to do.

slowburner

Podge_irl wrote: »

McFadden is an absolutely beautiful kicker of the ball. Keeps it nice and low too which means the wind affects it less. Some of the kicks he has put inthis season have been phenomenol.

That could be very important indeed in the Sportsground.