Groupon wedding photo deal

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http://www.groupon.ie/deals/dublin-special/through-the-lens/2151524?nlp=&CID=IE_CRM_1_0_0_362&a=1768

€400 for two photographers. Hard to see how you make money with that, and I wouldn't have thought weddings were a repeat business

sineadw

It's a loss leader. Weddings are absolutely repeat business, in that most people will go on recommendations from friends.

PCPhoto

the problem I would have with these kind of deals is that people purchase without checking out the quality of the photographer....(I have not even looked at this deal so cant comment on the current deal)

but with the girlfriend's sister getting married in 2013 I was asked to check out a similar deal with another photographer offering wedding packages for €800 - apparently 50% off. (or something like that)

when I checked out the website - there was a lot of fundamental errors, he had some nice images but for group shots no care or attention was taken to remove people or distracting objects from the picture ... simple mistakes which I wouldn't expect of a person claiming to be a wedding photographer.... also a lot of the images had a tilted look to them - which is great when viewing on a screen - but when put into an album ...it shows a lack of creativity.

moral of the story ... these "deals" are only good if you were looking at using the service or purchasing the "deal" before they came out with a special offer.

tororosso

I say that most wedding photographers are kicking themselves at not doing these deals. Bottom line is that it sounds great to be able to offer two wedding photographers for that price. Their main strength is they can say that the event will be well covered as there will be two photographers on show on the day. Obviously it appears that the photographers are a husband and wife team so they can absorb the "expenses" on the day and don't really have to worry about hiring an assistant photographer etc.

I did a wedding for a friend a year ago. He had booked a photographer for the day but knew I could also help out. I took a load of photos and he was very happy with the standard of them. I guess the worry with only one photographer at an event is that all your eggs are in the one basket. With this deal you can rest assured that the lay person will see two photographers and be extra assured that they will have decent photographs from the day.

Having a look at the Through the Lens site I could only see examples of two weddings shot. The photos would not blow you away but after this deal they could be looking at 20 weddings to display on that site.

Plus the advertising of their service and product is invaluable so is it really a case they would be making a loss? They have already had 1 purchase of the deal but in a recession like this I would say they will do well.

melekalikimaka

tororosso wrote: »

I say that most wedding photographers are kicking themselves at not doing these deals. Bottom line is that it sounds great to be able to offer two wedding photographers for that price. Their main strength is they can say that the event will be well covered as there will be two photographers on show on the day. Obviously it appears that the photographers are a husband and wife team so they can absorb the "expenses" on the day and don't really have to worry about hiring an assistant photographer etc.

I did a wedding for a friend a year ago. He had booked a photographer for the day but knew I could also help out. I took a load of photos and he was very happy with the standard of them. I guess the worry with only one photographer at an event is that all your eggs are in the one basket. With this deal you can rest assured that the lay person will see two photographers and be extra assured that they will have decent photographs from the day.

Having a look at the Through the Lens site I could only see examples of two weddings shot. The photos would not blow you away but after this deal they could be looking at 20 weddings to display on that site.

Plus the advertising of their service and product is invaluable so is it really a case they would be making a loss? They have already had 1 purchase of the deal but in a recession like this I would say they will do well.

I would disagree completely. Doing 'deals' shows to me that you cannot drum enough business on the merit of your work... thus calls into question the standard, two crap photographers just means twice the crap images. Any wedding photographer worth thier salt is booked up months in advance and has no need to resort to lowering the value of their services to create turnover.

sad thing is this will probablt attract alot of cash strapped couples and no doubt there will the threads on here discussing the fallout of the work

stcstc

the other thing to remember is the 400 bucks is split between the photographer and groupon or whoever


and the general ratio is 50:50

so means the photographer is getting 200 euros!!!!


there have been soooo many horror stories for both customers and businesses with those group buying schemes

sineadw

And a lot of good ones too, lest we all lose the run of ourselves here I know a very decent portrait photographer who had a deal very similar to this on groupon just a week or two ago, someone who does *very* good work. And I haven't heard any disaster stories from her yet as a consequence.

Eirebear

melekalikimaka wrote: »

I would disagree completely. Doing 'deals' shows to me that you cannot drum enough business on the merit of your work... thus calls into question the standard, two crap photographers just means twice the crap images. Any wedding photographer worth thier salt is booked up months in advance and has no need to resort to lowering the value of their services to create turnover.

sad thing is this will probablt attract alot of cash strapped couples and no doubt there will the threads on here discussing the fallout of the work

Not at all.

To be a succesful wedding photographer, one needs to be a good businessperson too. It may just be that using groupon to raise their profile a little is good business sense in the long run.
It may be that they are be to the game, or that they are vastly experienced but want to kick things on a wee bit.

Either way, i'm sure they'll have looked at the pros and cons before hand, and while it remains to be seen wether it is a good decision or not - it's unfair to write them off purely on the basis of making that decision.

I bought 2 for 1 bottles of Irn bru in tesco this morning.
Are Barrs, or even Tesco struggling?

stcstc

actually without generalising

there are more rubbish deals than there are decent ones

from rubbish prints etc

also there are really bad deals for the businesses running the offers, one for example was in the news recently where a woman selling cakes was losing huge amounts of money on every deal


I think the good deals are few and far between

in the business world the discussions about the financial stability of groupon are huge, with major compentators suggesting the business model is fatally flawed


i know of a dublin company producing canvas prints, knocking them out very very cheaply using cheap inks and cheap canvases, most people wouldnt care and if they last a year or some thats enough for most people


where these deals do work are in service industries, where material costs are very low and its all manpower etc, for example resteraunts etc


the other side is that the business needs to be careful to managethings well. otherwise they can be overun with work from the deal, and not making any actual money

Eirebear

stcstc wrote: »

actually without generalising

there are more rubbish deals than there are decent ones

from rubbish prints etc

also there are really bad deals for the businesses running the offers, one for example was in the news recently where a woman selling cakes was losing huge amounts of money on every deal


I think the good deals are few and far between

in the business world the discussions about the financial stability of groupon are huge, with major compentators suggesting the business model is fatally flawed


i know of a dublin company producing canvas prints, knocking them out very very cheaply using cheap inks and cheap canvases, most people wouldnt care and if they last a year or some thats enough for most people


where these deals do work are in service industries, where material costs are very low and its all manpower etc, for example resteraunts etc


the other side is that the business needs to be careful to managethings well. otherwise they can be overun with work from the deal, and not making any actual money

I don't disagree with any of this at all - i just thought it seemed a little unfair of people to be writing off the photographer due to the fact they were using this method.
I certainly wouldnt buy prints off the people who use them, as i have seen and experienced the stuff they put out - also, i wouldnt think about booking a photographer, no matter what the price without doing the research first.

Also, the package offered is a "Disc Only" deal, so it could very easily fall under the Service Industry parameters that you set out.

stcstc

oh yes sorry i wasnt suggesting the photographer wasnt any good at all

was suggesting from knowledge that there is a lot of carp touted through those deals, as its the only real way for them not to cost money

the quality of the photographer i dont know about


and didnt suggest that they were no god or anything,

magicbastarder

tororosso wrote: »

I say that most wedding photographers are kicking themselves at not doing these deals.

if as mentioned, as a photographer, (s)he's only getting €200 for at least two days work, we're not talking about top drawer photography here. certainly not a full time photographer; allow for cost of equipment and expenses, that is not someone making a living for that money.

as someone mentioned, that's as a loss leader. it might make sense for someone to do it a couple of times, and then go on reputation, but the problem is if you do a good job, you'll be recommended at the price you charged, not the price you would like to charge.

Borderfox

tororosso wrote: »

I say that most wedding photographers are kicking themselves at not doing these deals. Bottom line is that it sounds great to be able to offer two wedding photographers for that price. Their main strength is they can say that the event will be well covered as there will be two photographers on show on the day. Obviously it appears that the photographers are a husband and wife team so they can absorb the "expenses" on the day and don't really have to worry about hiring an assistant photographer etc.

I did a wedding for a friend a year ago. He had booked a photographer for the day but knew I could also help out. I took a load of photos and he was very happy with the standard of them. I guess the worry with only one photographer at an event is that all your eggs are in the one basket. With this deal you can rest assured that the lay person will see two photographers and be extra assured that they will have decent photographs from the day.

Having a look at the Through the Lens site I could only see examples of two weddings shot. The photos would not blow you away but after this deal they could be looking at 20 weddings to display on that site.

Plus the advertising of their service and product is invaluable so is it really a case they would be making a loss? They have already had 1 purchase of the deal but in a recession like this I would say they will do well.

Kicking myself now to do a wedding for €400 :rolleyes:

tororosso

melekalikimaka wrote: »

I would disagree completely. Doing 'deals' shows to me that you cannot drum enough business on the merit of your work... thus calls into question the standard, two crap photographers just means twice the crap images. Any wedding photographer worth thier salt is booked up months in advance and has no need to resort to lowering the value of their services to create turnover.

sad thing is this will probablt attract alot of cash strapped couples and no doubt there will the threads on here discussing the fallout of the work

It wouldn't indicate that you cannot drum up enough business necessarily. Bottom line is that this sort of stuff threatens some "big time pros" because many people will happily look at the photos on the site and might say, hmmm that's decent enough for us and every penny counts. At this point though I do realise I have ressurected the old debate of the cheaper inexperienced photographers being crap etc. If this couple is just starting out in this field then this is definitely a good idea for them. They offer a base package starting at 400 euros anyway so that is no major loss to avail of the publicity and attention that this deal offers them despite the apparent financial loss to them.

So far it remains to be seen if they will drum up a sizable amount of business from this deal as it is still down as only 1 deal bought so far. However maybe this indicates that cash strapped couples are indeed doing their homework and are not rushing into buying this deal based on what they see on the site!

tororosso

magicbastarder wrote: »

if as mentioned, as a photographer, (s)he's only getting €200 for at least two days work, we're not talking about top drawer photography here. certainly not a full time photographer; allow for cost of equipment and expenses, that is not someone making a living for that money.

as someone mentioned, that's as a loss leader. it might make sense for someone to do it a couple of times, and then go on reputation, but the problem is if you do a good job, you'll be recommended at the price you charged, not the price you would like to charge.

Yeah I agree they are not earning a lot but they are still drumming up business which is better than no business at all. Many on here see it as a crazy business model but if they are happy to do it that way then so be it. If they already have all the equipment anyway, and are a couple who are happy to work per hour on that basis then their costs would be negligable!

As a loss leader they can get the reputation and still charge higher because it appears they have a base price of 400 euros and offer two other packages at higher rates.

tororosso

Borderfox wrote: »

Kicking myself now to do a wedding for €400 :rolleyes:

:pac: I'd happily do one for that:rolleyes:
Financially it mightn't make sense to you but how much would they have to spend on the advertisements and publicity to attract the same level of attention they are getting from that Groupon deal? I know my girlfriend looks at that site every day and I know of plenty of other people who are also on it fairly regularly.

stcstc

the problem with these group buying schemes is they are sold as something to use for marketing

ie sell cheap on a deal to then get a percentage of returning customers paying proper prices


in realality what is happening is more and more people buy the deals and then move onto the next deal

returning customers are a rare occassion, not the norm with these deals

magicbastarder

yep, the expectation is being set that you can get a wedding photographer for that money, because people don't suspect, or don't consider that the photographer is working at a loss.

Borderfox

I dont want to shoot a wedding for €400 and if I was to advertise using that price I would have a long slog to get out of that price bracket because couples would still want that price when the offer was finished because they were shopping on price only.

I have done time limited weddings for people in the past, eg 4 hours coverage for €500 and that couples friends have asked for that price for weddings two years in the future and I have said it was for 4 hours only but they want the whole day for that price so I refused the job.

If you want to do one for that price get on the groupon deal then

tororosso

From that perspective you probably have the right of it Borderfox, I guess it must undermine you if customer's are able to say that you offered x for a shoot a few years back and then are charging y now...I don't do weddings myself but it would be nice to do some. I guess there is the temptation to offer cheap/next to nothing in the hope of getting onto the scene but it is a short term approach. While it would get your name out there it would be hard to move up in price after word had gotten around of what you are offering.
Nah, thinking of the cold hard logic of spending hours sorting through photos AFTER doing the wedding then 400 is way too low!!

I am fascinated to see how many deals they sell though

PCPhoto

tororosso wrote: »

From that perspective you probably have the right of it Borderfox, I guess it must undermine you if customer's are able to say that you offered x for a shoot a few years back and then are charging y now...I don't do weddings myself but it would be nice to do some. I guess there is the temptation to offer cheap/next to nothing in the hope of getting onto the scene but it is a short term approach. While it would get your name out there it would be hard to move up in price after word had gotten around of what you are offering.
Nah, thinking of the cold hard logic of spending hours sorting through photos AFTER doing the wedding then 400 is way too low!!

I am fascinated to see how many deals they sell though

its the same mistake loads of starting out photographers make ... it works for some ... for the vast majority it doesn't work.

Starting out .... most people think ... if I do it cheaper than everyone else I'll get loads of people hiring me...problem is

...if you do it cheaper people expect they can get it as cheap in the future

or

people expect that because you are cheap you may not be as good as the guy charging twice as much.

its a struggle for many people starting out trying to make a name for themselves and build a career, problem at the moment is that everyone wants to make a name for themselves and wants to start a career in photography - almost everyone with a DSLR seems to think they can become a professional photographer but they don't seem to want to spend years of hard work building a reputation, networking with professional photographers, learning techniques, building contacts etc.

As regards wedding photographers - the sheer cost of doing the job, meeting the couple a number of times before the wedding day, discussing images and time spent post processing the images .... would easily go over €400 ... and between 2 people !! .... for me they cannot sustain multiple purchases of their offer as it could/would financially cripple them - as has been mentioned before - they are trying to start off and make a name/build a reputation.....if one of those weddings goes wrong - I doubt they will survive financially.

magicbastarder

it's quite simple - you don't plan for a career in wedding photography by undermining the economic basis for that career.

jpb1974

Worth a read, a good post well sprinkled with common sense -

http://zackarias.com/for-photographers/philosophy/cheap-photographers-only-kill-themselves-not-the-industry/

Some people might find this hard to believe, but there are some people in this life that would be stretching to pay €400 for some sort of record of the day... good, bad or indifferent -

Think of the brides out there who don’t have a budget but want some photos of their weddings. Maybe there are young couples getting married who don’t have the parents to pay for a big event or they don’t want to start their young family in debt but they would like someone to come take some pictures. Are you saying that if they can’t afford a $3,000+ photographer then they don’t deserve photos? Are you saying that if they can’t afford a Mercedes then they shouldn’t be allowed to drive? Shame on you. Not everyone can afford pro level prices. That doesn’t mean they can’t have some level of photographic services available to them.

Borderfox

jpb1974 wrote: »

Worth a read, a good post well sprinkled with common sense -

http://zackarias.com/for-photographers/philosophy/cheap-photographers-only-kill-themselves-not-the-industry/

Some people might find this hard to believe, but there are some people in this life that would be stretching to pay €400 for some sort of record of the day... good, bad or indifferent -

I understand his point in the article and different couples have a lot of views on what they hold important in documenting the day, I have a registry office package that wouldnt be far off this price and its time and image limited just to cover the important parts.

In saying that people have funny ideas of where to spend money and they compromise on the photography section that will be the only part of the wedding that is left in 5/10/20 years time

jpb1974

In saying that people have funny ideas of where to spend money and they compromise on the photography section that will be the only part of the wedding that is left in 5/10/20 years time

My parents have 12 B+W traditional prints in their wedding album from 1970 which were done by a 'friend with a camera' (the album itself belonged to a friend who got divorced, she no longer wanted it so gave it to them ).

It's a fantastic set of photos, simple and to the point. Plenty of good memories.

For some people simple things will suffice. For others photographs, irrespective of how long they last, are not that important... and personally I can't fault that. How much people have and how they choose to spend it really is a personal choice and not one to be questioned as far I as I am concerned.

sineadw

I've looked at my wedding photos maybe 3 times? I don't even know where they are any more. TBH it'd be the VERY last thing I'd want to be spending money on.

hcnyla

I know its an old thread but here is a little update, might prevent someone from doing similar in the future.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056969076

Seems its all gone a little tits up.

sebphoto

stcstc wrote: »

the other thing to remember is the 400 bucks is split between the photographer and groupon or whoever


and the general ratio is 50:50

so means the photographer is getting 200 euros!!!!

It's not that simple 50:50, but even less goes to the photographer plus he/she have to pay taxes.