Bank contacting revenue

Teaandcoffee

Hi guys, could do with some feedback please.

I lost my job in August of this year. I did not sign on with social welfare as I stupidly thought I might be lucky enough to find work. For weeks I didn't get as much as an acknowledgement to the hoards of CV's I sent to different companies and my savings began to slowly diminish.

I got a call in November from my previous employer who said she could give me a couple of hours each week but it would have to be off the books as the company was in financial difficulty. The money was dire but I felt I had no option but to take her up on her offer.

To cut a long story short I had applied for my mortgage payments to be restructured. I received a letter from the bank to say they needed to speak with me. When I met them they told me that they had done some investigating and would be contacting the revenue about my unpaid taxes with this company.

I am really concerned to say the least. I have always complied and payed my taxes in the past. I stupidly took the job on out of sheer financial stress.

Anyone take a guess were this may lead?

CamperMan

Teaandcoffee wrote: »

Hi guys, could do with some feedback please.

I lost my job in August of this year. I did not sign on with social welfare as I stupidly thought I might be lucky enough to find work. For weeks I didn't get as much as an acknowledgement to the hoards of CV's I sent to different companies and my savings began to slowly diminish.

I got a call in November from my previous employer who said she could give me a couple of hours each week but it would have to be off the books as the company was in financial difficulty. The money was dire but I felt I had no option but to take her up on her offer.

To cut a long story short I had applied for my mortgage payments to be restructured. I received a letter from the bank to say they needed to speak with me. When I met them they told me that they had done some investigating and would be contacting the revenue about my unpaid taxes with this company.

I am really concerned to say the least. I have always complied and payed my taxes in the past. I stupidly took the job on out of sheer financial stress.

Anyone take a guess were this may lead?

but you didn't declare the income from the cash in hand job!!

best thing to do is don't avoid the situation, confront it and be honest.

Gareth2011

How could the bank know about your job if it was cash in hand and wasn't going straight into your account? were you lodging it as salary or something? Im assuming you told them you didn't have any work and you were not on social so they wondered where money was coming from if you lodged it? I know I lodge my social into the bank on a weekly basis and they never ask about it but on the pther hand I had told them how much my social would be and that I was going to be on it from x date.

TiGeR KiNgS

register asap and your likely only to get penalties and a surcharge.

Teaandcoffee

Thanks guys. I rang my boss and told her I could not take on any more work but apparantly the bank had contacted her and said they were also reporting her to the revenue.

I agree my only option is to come clean.

LH2011

Teaandcoffee wrote: »

Thanks guys. I rang my boss and told her I could not take on any more work but apparantly the bank had contacted her and said they were also reporting her to the revenue.

I agree my only option is to come clean.

its none of the banks ff'in business. who do they think they are ringing people like that.

CamperMan

LH2011 wrote: »

its none of the banks ff'in business. who do they think they are ringing people like that.

the banks are owned by the government, the government can do what it wants.. :mad:

drunkmonkey

CamperMan wrote: »

the banks are owned by the government, the government can do what it wants.. :mad:

It has to operate within the law, sounds like there's data protection laws been broken here. I don't see how the bank would know where op's cash was coming from. Something doesn't make sense. We haven't the full story.

CamperMan

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It has to operate within the law, sounds like there's data protection laws been broken here. I don't see how the bank would know where op's cash was coming from. Something doesn't make sense. We haven't the full story.

this is Ireland! laws are meant to be either broken or bent

ted1

If you only started in November you should register a company and claim your self employed.

Wheelnut

Something does not add up. Is there a detail missing from T&C's account? The bank could not know about the cash-in-hand arrangement unless they were told. If they saw extra cash lodged there could be several explanations. For instance: parents could be helping out and that's totally legal. Besides all that, the work was a couple of hours a week at dire rates which means the money can't be much, so why are the bank noticing it?

If you haven't been claiming social welfare than you aren't in too bad a position, your employer is worse off I'd say. I certainly wouldn't be registering a company to claim I was self employed. First thing to do is to sign on anyway and get all that sorted.

SugarHigh

Surely the bank is working against their own interest here? They are going to reduce your ability to repay back their loan. So it's obviously something they are legally required to do.

SugarHigh

Wheelnut wrote: »

Something does not add up. Is there a detail missing from T&C's account? The bank could not know about the cash-in-hand arrangement unless they were told. If they saw extra cash lodged there could be several explanations. For instance: parents could be helping out and that's totally legal. Besides all that, the work was a couple of hours a week at dire rates which means the money can't be much, so why are the bank noticing it?

Maybe the OP and their boss share the same bank and they figured it out on the employers end.

elaverty

HOW DID THE BANK KNOW YOU WERE GETING CASH IN HAND ?????

drunkmonkey

SugarHigh wrote: »

Maybe the OP and their boss share the same bank and they figured it out on the employers end.

That's not up to the bank to contact anyone. There not allowed. They report it to the authorities and let them manage the situation.
I failed my bankers exam but I do know the bank can't do what op is saying they done.

exaisle

If the bank contact the Revenue, sue them. Get the name of the person in the bank who threatened this and contact head office and make it clear that you will sue.

You just havent declared the income you have earned...yet. There's nothing to stop you making a tax return for 2011 after year end and declaring it then.

People are too lenient with banks and should learn to tell the banks to f**k off more easily. The days of cow-towing to the banks is over...they are just there to provide a service and if they dont provide it, change bank.

The banks are self-serving so it's up to the customer to adopt exactly the same attitude.

dobsdave

Sounds like one of your friends playing a practical joke to be honest.

ScouseMouse

Sorry lads, but I think you are all wrong.

Even the DPA would have a clause reserving the right to report illegal activity or tax evasion.

It may even be in the conditions of the bank account.

If it is in the terms and conditions of the account, then when you signed up, you agreed to disclosure to the revenue !

ScouseMouse

Did a bit of digging and have found a reference in the Data Protection Act Section 2b which looks kinda like this situation.

My reading of it is that a data controller (THE BANK), can hand over details to an authority in the even of fraud or suspected fraud (fraud against revenue?)

Basically, working cash in hand is illegal and they cannot be held acccountable for reporting you.

(Still dont agree with it though.)

Let us know how you get on.

It is the bank who is in the wrong here on a number of grounds (Defamation and Data Protection by telling the employer). At the very least the bad publicity if named will have a lot of customers in a similar situation leaving.

The OP has not claimed any SW, so no fraud there. They have the guts of a year to file a tax return for 2011 and their unused tax allowances since August will probably more than cover their self employed earnings, resulting in a tax refund back to the OP.

Zulu

OP is not giving us the full story.

Jet Black

2 problems I see with the op.

1. How did the bank find out? Was your employer still putting money in your account under their name?

2. The bank would not call you in and tell you that they have reported you as the report they send is sent from the bank to head office and dealt with at the fraud department who send the report to the revenue. This is where the banks liability ends. It's then up to the revenue on what action to take.


Could you even imagine a bank worker calling in customers and saying this to them? They would be beaten up on a daily basis.

I agree with Zulu this isn't the full story.

Gareth2011

elaverty wrote: »

HOW DID THE BANK KNOW YOU WERE GETING CASH IN HAND ?????

That's what I said. Something is missing here. Like if I lodge cash into the bankk every week and I don't give an explanation as to where it came from and the bank doesn't ask there is no way they could know it was cash in hand unless they tapped his phone or something but thats too far fetched. It's his own fault at the end of the day and his bosses. If you going to get cash in hand you keep it away from where it can be seen (so the bank) and you claim your social welfare so there are still payments going into your bank. Don't be a martyr and say oh il get a job in a few weeks when there are 400 k people out of work already. That really is a silly UNREALISTIC way to think in the current climate.

Gareth2011

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's not up to the bank to contact anyone. There not allowed. They report it to the authorities and let them manage the situation.
I failed my bankers exam but I do know the bank can't do what op is saying they done.

Their not allowed to contact anyone anyone but they can report it to the authorities? How can they report it without contact?

Gareth2011

superscouse wrote: »

Sorry lads, but I think you are all wrong.

Even the DPA would have a clause reserving the right to report illegal activity or tax evasion.

It may even be in the conditions of the bank account.

If it is in the terms and conditions of the account, then when you signed up, you agreed to disclosure to the revenue !

Exactly. Why do people think the bank takes your pps no now? it's not to see if it looks nice thats for sure :rolleyes:

Bigcheeze

The OP is on a wind up. Don't waste your hot air on this folks.

Gareth2011

superscouse wrote: »

Did a bit of digging and have found a reference in the Data Protection Act Section 2b which looks kinda like this situation.

My reading of it is that a data controller (THE BANK), can hand over details to an authority in the even of fraud or suspected fraud (fraud against revenue?)

Basically, working cash in hand is illegal and they cannot be held acccountable for reporting you.

(Still dont agree with it though.)

Let us know how you get on.

But the bank calling him? To me that part doesn't make sence ( Can you come into this room please Mr T&C we have had to report you for tax evasion because you've been a bold boy). Everyone works cash in hand at some stage depending in what their line of work is but to get caught by the bank and reported is just bad luck.

Teaandcoffee

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm sorry I didn't explain myself properly in my opening post. The bank became aware of the situation when I handed my bank statements into them, as I was having difficulties paying my mortgage.

They realised I was not taking in a regular wage and wanted to know how I was managing to pay part of my mortgage when my income was supposed to be nil.

They called me in for a meeting and basically called me a liar. They said they had being doing some investigating and were not happy with their findings.

They want me to get letters from employer that all my taxes are up to date etc and they will also be contacting revenue.

I honestly don't know any more than that. My only other though is that somebody may have tipped them off???

drunkmonkey

Tell them your Self Employed, and your under no obligation to make a tax return yet. There is nothing they can do. Give your employer and invoice for the work carried out and your both in the clear. No crime.
What they can report you to the revenue for is money laundering but there is no evidence of that here. They are not meant to do anything besides report you and they are certainly not allowed tell you there reporting you as they are then aiding & abetting fraudulent activity by tipping you off.
The bank are out of order on this one. Do not accept threats and consult a solicitor. There've already broken the law.
The bank are so wrong here on so many levels it's not funny.

Zulu

Teaandcoffee wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm sorry I didn't explain myself properly in my opening post.

Taking you at your word, & while this sound really strange, I'd advise the bank that you are trying very hard to repay what you owe them, and that that is what they should focus on.
With respect to the revenue, advise them they could probably shorten the whole process and save you some hassle if they also contacted the DPC while contacting revenue. Advise them that if they persist on threatening you with revenue you'll have no choice but to firstly prioritise how little of your income thats left into sustaining your welbeing and not the banks intrest, then you'll be compelled to contact the DPC.


In short: If they persist, walk out. In future, the mortgage will come last.

Zulu

Also, if the truth is being told: name and shame the bank

ScouseMouse

I have no doubt the bank is free to do this. If they kept quiet about illegal money they themselves would come under fire.

I dont know about the facts of this story, like everyone else, it sounds like we dont have the full story.

I have mentioned this thread over on the legal discussions forum for their opinion but I know myself, and I would put a tenner on it, the bank has the right to notify revenue and the guards about undeclared money which it appears, is the case here. I dont condone them doing it, but I am sure they are entitled to tell the Revenue.

The bank officials are personally liable if money laundering happens and the revenue have more powers than guards.

This country is a nanny state.

BuffyBot

camperman et al, keep the posts constructive. Anymore of these "ah sure banks are owned by the government and can do what they like" style posts and you'll find your time of this thread, and others on this forum, cut short. It's disruptive and not in the least bit useful in resolving the query at hand.

Jet Black

I don't think you'll be in much trouble anyway. Your employer on the other hand could be facing fines of over 10k. Contact your local citizens advice office first for advice.

drunkmonkey

Jet Black wrote: »

I don't think you'll be in much trouble anyway. Your employer on the other hand could be facing fines of over 10k. Contact your local citizens advice office first for advice.

If OP invoices his cash employer there is no crime. He does not need to set up a company, register for vat etc to do that. He simply needs an invoice with his details on it. It's perfectly legal.

Tazz T

You don't have a problem. Your employer does.

You have at least until next September to report this income. You might even have two years as this is just your first years as 'self-employed' or a 'sole trader'. You could consider registering as such, but if you aren't going to be doing any more work, then there's no point - it's just casual work and should be reported next year as part of a self-assessed tax return.

If you want to put your mind at ease or are considering going out on your own, perhaps see an accountant?

As for the bank, should be tell them as a result of their actions (ie, getting in touch with your employer) you no longer have the means to pay the mortgage and they'll have to wait. Them shopping you to the revenue means nothing to you.n You've done nothing illegal.

Curly Judge

Perhaps my memory is failing me but I don't remember a law being passed requiring or even allowing a bank to pass on information to the Revenue.
Since when have the banks become snitches?

drunkmonkey

Employer has no problem as long as they get an Invoice from OP adding up to the amount paid. It's as if OP was a contractor.

Sample:

Invoice


Joe Bloggs
Grafton Street
Phone 087 4343443

Date 29/12/2011

Construction of Fence, set fee €2000.

Vat N/A


Payment due within 30 days.


____________________________________

Give that to your employer. Ge them to talk to their accountant first. The only thing missing is the invoice for you both to be in the clear.

Owryan

A family member recently had a similar experience, his bank reported him to revenue after seeing some suspicious activity on his account.

He was lodging money from gambling and it was flagged .

When he spoke to his bank manager he was told that financial institutions are obliged to report any suspicious activity.

This was a year ago and revenue are still dealing with it.

drunkmonkey

Curly Judge wrote: »

Perhaps my memory is failing me but I don't remember a law being passed requiring or even allowing a bank to pass on information to the Revenue.
Since when have the banks become snitches?

It became law in 2009 it's part of the Criminal Justice act, It's to combat terrorism and money laundering. What's it's not meant to be used for is banks threatening customers. Complete abuse of the law in this instance.

MagicSean

Perhaps I missed something. If you are only doing a few hours a week why would you even owe taxes. At the end of the year just log onto PAYE site and record the extra income and look for a new P60.

drunkmonkey

Owryan wrote: »

his bank reported him to revenue after seeing some suspicious activity on his account.

He was lodging money from gambling and it was flagged .

When he spoke to his bank manager he was told that financial institutions are obliged to report any suspicious activity.

This was a year ago and revenue are still dealing with it.

That's a prefect example of what the law is there for. Gambling and crime go hand in hand. It's where a lot of money is laundered.
The smart criminals are now using things like pre payed credit cards. Dirty money in, cleaned up and handed back out for a small fee with no identification required.

Jet Black

How would declaring being self employed affect JSA? That would be my biggest worry.

dahamsta

I keep seeing people giving advice to others that they should "declare" themselves as sole traders and I have to wonder where they're getting their info. Perhaps the law has changed since I was a sole trader, but I never had to declare myself as anything to anyone. Once my income tax was paid every year the Revenue didn't give a crap who or what I was.

Wheelnut

superscouse wrote: »

Did a bit of digging and have found a reference in the Data Protection Act Section 2b which looks kinda like this situation.

My reading of it is that a data controller (THE BANK), can hand over details to an authority in the even of fraud or suspected fraud (fraud against revenue?)

At the risk of confusing matters by going back too far in the thread, I read that link by Superscouse and the bit that stuck out for me was the final paragraph:

Data Protection Comissioner wrote:

Accordingly, for clarity the sharing of personal data by a data controller with An Garda Síochána in relation to the commission or alleged commission of an offence is legitimate under the Acts and may take place. No other sharing of information between data controllers in relation to the commission or alleged commission of offences, including in relation to fraud, may take place in compliance with the Data Protection Acts.

That seems to say they can only report a matter to the Gardai and nobody else.

ScouseMouse

Wheelnut wrote: »

At the risk of confusing matters by going back too far in the thread, I read that link by Superscouse and the bit that stuck out for me was the final paragraph:



That seems to say they can only report a matter to the Gardai and nobody else.

Heres another bit of it:

Section 2B(1) outlines additional conditions which would legitimise such processing. The most relevant in this context are likely to be:



(vi) the processing is necessary -

(1) for the administration of justice,

(11) for the performance of a function conferred on a person by or under an enactment, or

(111) for the performance of a function of the Government or a Minister of the Government,


(vii) the processing –

(I) is required for the purpose of obtaining legal advice or for the purposes of, or in connection with, legal proceedings or prospective legal proceedings, or

(II) is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights

Surely Revenue is classed as government?

Zulu

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It became law in 2009 it's part of the Criminal Justice act, ...

No it didn't, the act you refer to still hasn't come into effect.

Wheelnut

superscouse wrote: »

Heres another bit of it:

...

(111) for the performance of a function of the Government or a Minister of the Government,


...

Yes, I did read that including the parts highlighted by you. (They are on the same page). Never-the-less, the commissioner's footnote to the whole thing is what I quoted. There seems to be a little discrepancy but I know the Revenue have the powers to obtain information.

In this case it may all be academic because no matter what way it's looked at, the bank seem to be acting wrongly. I suspect they are just putting the frighteners on poor T&C so as to screw more money out of him.

LH2011

Wheelnut wrote: »

Yes, I did read that including the parts highlighted by you. (They are on the same page). Never-the-less, the commissioner's footnote to the whole thing is what I quoted. There seems to be a little discrepancy but I know the Revenue have the powers to obtain information.

In this case it may all be academic because no matter what way it's looked at, the bank seem to be acting wrongly. I suspect they are just putting the frighteners on poor T&C so as to screw more money out of him.

whatever legislation is in place, it certainly does not allow / permit, the bank to go ringing people mouthing off, saying they are going to report someone,
i wonder what bank this is, and how the Chief Executive of the bank would
react to his/her bank carrying on in such a fashion..

what bank is this?

Zulu

Op, why haven't you named the bank? Name & shame please