Istabraq Festival Hurdle

RichieLawlor

Still no word from Mullins on Hurricane Fly, he's some joker, hardly punter friendly.

Favourite still on betfair so obv nobody knows

UrbanSea

Not a man for the punters is he

artanevilla

I think this one might be best watched, there's something not quite right with Hurricane Fly.

Huntey

artanevilla wrote: »

I think this one might be best watched, there's something not quite right with Hurricane Fly.

If Hurricane Fly runs he wins. Unfortunately I don't think he will be running.

UrbanSea wrote: »

Not a man for the punters is he

I'd say that is the way with most trainers, punters would be a mere after thought.

Mullins left the bookies with no choice but to suspend the market, not even for liability sakes but more so to keep their dignity intact.

It wouldn't look very savvy if they let Thousand Stars be backed to the hilt only for the Fly to be withdrawn.

hucklebuck

It's all very smoke and mirrors down there, so many people got word on Midnight Game and he didn't even win that well yesterday. A different source had told me that something down there is making a mug of Hurricane Fly on the gallops.

We still have not seen Samain either, I wonder if he is going to do something crazy with him like if Hurricane is injured through Samain in Champ Hurdle :eek:

It was very sus the way he did not go to the bumper last year and is off the radar this year.

Colonel Sanders

hucklebuck wrote: »

We still have not seen Samain either, I wonder if he is going to do something crazy with him like if Hurricane is injured through Samain in Champ Hurdle :eek:

It was very sus the way he did not go to the bumper last year and is off the radar this year.

He had a post on his website a while back saying Samain had suffered a set back & wouldn't be out til the new year

Colonel Sanders

See this re Samain

http://www.wpmullins.com/reports3.html

RichieLawlor

There is no horse in training that could make a mug of Hurricane Fly, we always hear those stories coming out of Clossutton, wasn't it Champagne Agent last year or something.

UrbanSea

Huntey wrote: »

If Hurricane Fly runs he wins. Unfortunately I don't think he will be running.



I'd say that is the way with most trainers, punters would be a mere after thought.

Mullins left the bookies with no choice but to suspend the market, not even for liability sakes but more so to keep their dignity intact.

It wouldn't look very savvy if they let Thousand Stars be backed to the hilt only for the Fly to be withdrawn.

Obviously the horse is the main priority,but I can't think of many trainers with worse relations toward punters

RichieLawlor

Non runner

NaiveMelodies

Pain in the arse but thats the way it is. Anyone going to take on Thousand Stars?

Shane732

hucklebuck wrote: »

It's all very smoke and mirrors down there, so many people got word on Midnight Game and he didn't even win that well yesterday. A different source had told me that something down there is making a mug of Hurricane Fly on the gallops.

We still have not seen Samain either, I wonder if he is going to do something crazy with him like if Hurricane is injured through Samain in Champ Hurdle :eek:

It was very sus the way he did not go to the bumper last year and is off the radar this year.

I've also heard that there's something giving hurricane a run for his money on the gallops. I thought it was Sous les cieux as I know they think a lot of the horse down there. After the run yesterday I certainly hope it's not him!

I personally find it hard to believe that there's something giving Hurricane that much of a problem. Hurricane Fly is in a different class - I don't think there's anything out there that will beat him come champion hurdle day, although they'd want to get the horse going at this stage.

mr.jingle

Didn't back anything in the race myself and sorry for anyone of ya's that backed Thousand Stars but I can't help but feel delighted for Mullins the way he treated punters this week with his late withdrawal of Hurricane Fly. Thought Townend gave Unaccompanied a great ride holding Ruby on the inside coming around the turn leaving him in a pocket and ultimately winning them the race

hucklebuck

mr.jingle wrote: »

Didn't back anything in the race myself and sorry for anyone of ya's that backed Thousand Stars but I can't help but feel delighted for Mullins the way he treated punters this week with his late withdrawal of Hurricane Fly. Thought Townend gave Unaccompanied a great ride holding Ruby on the inside coming around the turn leaving him in a pocket and ultimately winning them the race

I thought it was a poor ride by Ruby too, I can't understand the change of tactics especially when up against a quick horse that finished ahead of Grandouet and was only beaten by Zarkandar, given how Grandouet has trained on and that he would regularly sits on Zarkandar too.

Thousand Stars cost me over €900 today :mad:

Huntey

Ruby didn't do much wrong today it was just a case of Townend riding a perfect race.

The tactics are more to fault for the horse not winning.

newuser89

He should of been ridden more prominent and if thousand stars went off in front I'm sure he would of won,anyway now they mite take on big bucks with thousand stars who beat grand crus in France at end of last year over more than 3 miles.would at least make the world hurdle interesting

johnny_cash

I haven't seen the race yet and to hungover to look at it now I was talking to one of me brothers about an hour ago and he told me that paul townend was class on the winner.

hucklebuck

Huntey wrote: »

Ruby didn't do much wrong today it was just a case of Townend riding a perfect race.

The tactics are more to fault for the horse not winning.

Thats what I said tactically it was a bad ride.

Looking at Grandouet and Unaccompanied surely it is time to get stuck into Zarkandar given the Hurricane Fly situation.

newuser89

I would back grandouet before zarkander at this moment as grandouet has improved a lot this season , but we haven't seen zarkander yet so that could have improved too.was there not a race after Cheltenham that grandouet was brought down when tanking behind zarkander ,think it was two out and zarkander was being niggled

Nulty

newuser89 wrote: »

I would back grandouet before zarkander at this moment as grandouet has improved a lot this season , but we haven't seen zarkander yet so that could have improved too.was there not a race after Cheltenham that grandouet was brought down when tanking behind zarkander ,think it was two out and zarkander was being niggled

It would be hilarious to back Zarkandar with any conviction having not seen him run this season. If your going to back one antepost, back something thats shown something this season at least.

Huntey

hucklebuck wrote: »

I thought it was a poor ride by Ruby too, I can't understand the change of tactics

hucklebuck wrote: »

Thats what I said tactically it was a bad ride.

If that's what you felt than it is naive to direct all your anger at Ruby, chances are Mullins wanted him ridden that way for whatever reason.

premierstone

Huntey wrote: »

If that's what you felt than it is naive to direct all your anger at Ruby, chances are Mullins wanted him ridden that way for whatever reason.

There are countless threads set up here always calling this jockey and that an idiot for a perceived bad ride, infact there was one here last season slating townend as being cocky etc. yet when someone questions Ruby, oh god know cant be having that Ruby is god :rolleyes: fact is it was a stinker of a ride and just proves all jockeys are human and have off days.

Huntey

premierstone wrote: »

There are countless threads set up here always calling this jockey and that an idiot for a perceived bad ride, infact there was one here last season slating townend as being cocky etc. yet when someone questions Ruby, oh god know cant be having that Ruby is god :rolleyes: fact is it was a stinker of a ride and just proves all jockeys are human and have off days.

I'm certainly not one of Ruby's biggest fans but what makes you think it was "a stinker of a ride"?

premierstone

Huntey wrote: »

I'm certainly not one of Ruby's biggest fans but what makes you think it was "a stinker of a ride"?

He was riding a horse who has won over 3m against a horse who has beaten St Nicholas Abbey over 1m 2f and he holds thousands stars up in behind, and then gets squeezed up on the final bend, he should have made more use of the horse

Huntey

premierstone wrote: »

and he holds thousands stars up in behind

What makes you think it was Ruby's decision to hold the horse up? Unless he disobeyed orders than that falls at Mullins's feet. Have you any reason/proof to suggest Ruby disobeyed orders?

premierstone wrote: »

and then gets squeezed up on the final bend

He wasn't squeezed up, he got caught in a pocket for a stride or two and you think this equates to a stinker of a ride? Are you serious or do you know how to differentiate between good and bad rides? Thousand Stars had every chance to win but was just done for speed, simple really.

If you think Ruby should have made better use of the horse than your qualms are with Mullins who probably had a 90% say of how the horse was ridden.

premierstone

Huntey wrote: »

What makes you think it was Ruby's decision to hold the horse up? Unless he disobeyed orders than that falls at Mullins's feet. Have you any reason/proof to suggest Ruby disobeyed orders?



He wasn't squeezed up, he got caught in a pocket for a stride or two and you think this equates to a stinker of a ride? Are you serious or do you know how to differentiate between good and bad rides? Thousand Stars had every chance to win but was just done for speed, simple really.

If you think Ruby should have made better use of the horse than your qualms are with Mullins who probably had a 90% say of how the horse was ridden.

I'll expect a similar defence from you for every other jockey who is accused of misjudging a race or not making enough use of their horse, its like Ruby is above criticism :rolleyes:

Huntey

premierstone wrote: »

I'll expect a similar defence from you for every other jockey who is accused of misjudging a race or not making enough use of their horse, its like Ruby is above criticism :rolleyes:

No need for the sarcastic smiley, as I already mentioned I am far from Ruby's biggest fan unless you are totally inept of understanding anything I posted?

Furthermore, why don't you point out what you disagree with in my post instead of making another ridiculous statement? Your posts are coming across as somebody who is pretty clueless about the sport if I'm honest.

premierstone

Huntey wrote: »

No need for the sarcastic smiley, as I already mentioned I am far from Ruby's biggest fan unless you are totally inept of understanding anything I posted?

Furthermore, why don't you point out what you disagree with in my post instead of making another ridiculous statement? Your posts are coming across as somebody who is pretty clueless about the sport if I'm honest.

I had already told you why i thought it was a bad ride, you say he didnt get squeezed up, just caught in a pocket for a few strides, its the same thing and would never have happened if thousand stars had have been ridden as prominitley as he should have been.

You say I come across as somone who knows nothing about the sport well quite frankly I couldnt give a fcuk what you think and FYI you come across as a pretentious know it all

Hope that smiley doesnt offend you too much precious.

mattser

premierstone wrote: »

I'll expect a similar defence from you for every other jockey who is accused of misjudging a race or not making enough use of their horse, its like Ruby is above criticism :rolleyes:

He was less than perfect on Pires on Wednesday too, even though I backed the winner.
Ruby is class, but you're right, you dare not question any ride.
And I don't think you're posts are in the least smart-assed.

Huntey

premierstone wrote: »

I had already told you why i thought it was a bad ride, you say he didnt get squeezed up, just caught in a pocket for a few strides, its the same thing and would never have happened if thousand stars had have been ridden as prominitley as he should have been.

What tactics should have been implemented has very little to do with the ride unless Ruby went against orders. As you already failed to answer I will ask again, have you any reason (or proof) to suggest Ruby went against orders? If you don't then your problem should be with Mullins. I can't simplify it any further for you.

premierstone wrote: »

you come across as a pretentious know it all

I certainly don't "know it all" but I do have the half a brain required to see that Ruby most definitely didn't give the horse "a stinker of a ride".

mattser wrote: »

And I don't think you're posts are in the least smart-assed.

Not smart-assed but just clueless in the extreme.

premierstone

I just watched the race again to make sure I wasnt missing anything and it was every bit of the bad ride I initially thought, I also had a gander on a few of the racing forums I would respect and the general consensous is it was a very poor ride.

BTW I do also think that Ruby is the best jockey in the business, but he is not beyond reproach and we all have off days.

Huntey

premierstone wrote: »

I just watched the race again to make sure I wasnt missing anything and it was every bit of the bad ride I initially thought, I also had a gander on a few of the racing forums I would respect and the general consensous is it was a very poor ride.

You have only given the example of him getting caught in the pocket for a stride or two which certainly doesn't constitute a "stinker of a ride". Ruby did very little wrong, Townend rode the perfect race. Bear in mind I had a large sum on Thousand Stars so if I felt he was given a bad ride I would say, the tactics left a bit to be desired but nothing else of any magnitude would have changed the outcome.

premierstone wrote: »

BTW I do also think that Ruby is the best jockey in the business, but he is not beyond reproach and we all have off days.

I never suggested he was and most definitely is not.

mountai

Huntey.

I really wish I knew as much as you . i"m glad I"m not the only one who thinks you are a pompus ass!!!!!

For what its worth ;_ Talking to a well known trainer about tactics for a race in which a horse I had a share in he said and I quote " Yoy dont tell a top jockey what to do in a race, cause they do their own thing anyway, and if you tell an apprentice what to do, he probably isn"t capable of doing it anyway".


Then - - - I know nothing , according to you !!!!!

ft9

Whoever your trainer was, they were not very original.

A good jockey doesn't need orders and a bad jockey couldn't carry them out anyway; so it's best not to give them any.
Lester Piggott

hucklebuck

Huntey wrote: »

If that's what you felt than it is naive to direct all your anger at Ruby, chances are Mullins wanted him ridden that way for whatever reason.

Naive? Who sits on the horse and has the final say? Do you think the jockies wear earpieces and trainers have walkie talkies and talk them through every yard of the race?:rolleyes:

So the Irish Champion trainer decided to tell the best Irish Jockey(in my opinion) who is a Pro for 12 years to change the successful tactics on a top horse for no reason given Thousand Stars performances from the front?

Maybe Ruby wanted to try something different on the horse as Hurricane Fly must surely be a doubt for the CH or he thought he would be better placed to track Unaccompanied and do him for toe.

Huntey

hucklebuck wrote: »

Naive? Who sits on the horse and has the final say? Do you think the jockies wear earpieces and trainers have walkie talkies and talk them through every yard of the race?:rolleyes:

So the Irish Champion trainer decided to tell the best Irish Jockey(in my opinion) who is a Pro for 12 years to change the successful tactics on a top horse for no reason given Thousand Stars performances from the front?

Every jockey gets instructions before a race, whether they have 1 day or 15 years experience. That doesn't mean he is going to talk him through every furlong but he will say whether to keep him covered, make the running, etc. So yes you can be sure that Mullins had 90% say in how the horse should be ridden. To suggest otherwise isn't naive, it is idiotic.

hucklebuck wrote: »

Maybe Ruby wanted to try something different on the horse as Hurricane Fly must surely be a doubt for the CH or he thought he would be better placed to track Unaccompanied and do him for toe.

Good God, do you think jockeys have the authority to decide the try a different tactic on their own accord before a Grade 1 race?

Take your head out of the clouds.

Huntey

mountai wrote: »

Then - - - I know nothing , according to you !!!!!

I told you that Harchibald never found much off the bridle and that if you think otherwise than you are clueless. My point still stands but you never gave me a straight answer.

UrbanSea

Lads while ye're on about jockeys not following orders can anyone refresh my memory,this is driving me mad.

What ride was it Frankie didn't follow orders he had been given and was blamed for losing the race. I think it was in the 90's in a Leger,that I'm not sure of.

What I'm fairly certain of was that he followed Philip Robinson onto the rail,but had been told not to?

hucklebuck

Huntey wrote: »

Every jockey gets instructions before a race, whether they have 1 day or 15 years experience. That doesn't mean he is going to talk him through every furlong but he will say whether to keep him covered, make the running, etc. So yes you can be sure that Mullins had 90% say in how the horse should be ridden. To suggest otherwise isn't naive, it is idiotic.

Most stupid comment ever, so Piggot, Mc Coy etc are told how to ride and their experience counts for nothing? Instructions like Scu got from Pipe before Grands Crus last race "win the race"?

Huntey wrote: »

Good God, do you think jockeys have the authority to decide the try a different tactic on their own accord before a Grade 1 race?

Take your head out of the clouds.

Yes I think most senior riders with lots of wins are allowed use their initiative, so what do you think happens when for example Cecil tells Queally to hold Frankel up in the Guineas and their pacemakers goes too slow for Frankel? I'll tell you, make your own running and win the race.

Or if a small trainer tells Mc Coy what to do or just lets him do what he does best.

mountai

Huntey


The straight answer is this ;- Harchibald found plenty off the bridle that day in Kempton. I backed him that day @8/1 so look at the race again and count the number of times Carberry hit him

---

all the way to the line.

Sorry --- I"m naive --- and I know nothing !!!!!!!!


Can you address the point raised about you being a pompus ass??

UrbanSea

Hucklebuck jockeys are allowed to use their own initiative and then on some rides are expected to ride to orders.

Another Frankie example when he rode an Irish Oaks winner for Paddy Mullins. He asked him what tactics were as he had never sat on the horse before. He was told that he had been riding horses all of his life and he'd know what to do. Ended up winning it nicely

mr.jingle

Why all the talk about Ruby giving a bad ride can ya's not just give Townend the credit on outfoxing Ruby coming into the straight he was just outdone by a top up and coming jockey.

ft9

mr.jingle wrote: »

Why all the talk about Ruby giving a bad ride can ya's not just give Townend the credit on outfoxing Ruby coming into the straight he was just outdone by a top up and coming jockey.

Fantastic point there.

Well done Paul Townend.

Huntey

mountai wrote: »

The straight answer is this ;- Harchibald found plenty off the bridle that day in Kempton. I backed him that day @8/1 so look at the race again and count the number of times Carberry hit him

---

all the way to the line.

Sorry --- I"m naive --- and I know nothing !!!!!!!!

No he didn't find plenty off the bridle! He travelled to the last hard on the bridle when Snap Tie and Blue Bajan were hard at it and he won by under a length.

Harchibald never found much off the bridle, that isn't an opinion it is a fact and any horseman will tell you as much!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3omLnJ0hLM

I'm going to leave it there because it is beating a dead horse at this stage. (pardon the pun)

Huntey

mr.jingle wrote: »

Why all the talk about Ruby giving a bad ride can ya's not just give Townend the credit on outfoxing Ruby coming into the straight he was just outdone by a top up and coming jockey.

Exactly, Townend just rode a perfect race and that is all there is too it.

mountai

Huntey

He was hit 5 times on the run in and was kept up to his work, thats why he won IMHO.


You still have not answered why "You are a pompus ass"!!!!

ft9

mountai wrote: »

Huntey

He was hit 5 times on the run in and was kept up to his work, thats why he won IMHO.


You still have not answered why "You are a pompus ass"!!!!

There is no need for this on the forum, enough sh!t stirrers around lads, its a place for constructive discussion.

On topic, what were peoples thoughts on the race in general? As a grade 1 I thought it was poor, I expected them to go off at lightening pace.

UrbanSea

Poor field too 9.

Thousand Stars is not a top 2 miler.
Oscar Well's is a two and a half mile horse.

Unaccompanied will be found out in the CH

mountai

I"snt it an awful pity that Solwhit wasn"nt kept for hurdling this year and is injured. A horse that IMHO never got the recognition that he deserved.

Huntey

mountai wrote: »

Huntey

He was hit 5 times on the run in and was kept up to his work, thats why he won IMHO.

What is your obsession with the whip? We were discussing whether Harchibald found much off the bridle or not, how many times he was whipped is pretty irrelevant.

He was always a strong traveller who needed to be covered up and kept on the bridle for as long as possible, suggesting otherwise is embarrassing. I saw the horse training in the flesh many times and have first hand knowledge that everybody in the yard thought the exact same. Do not pretend to me that you know otherwise because you don't.

mountai wrote: »

You still have not answered why "You are a pompus ass"!!!!

If me tearing your ridiculous statement to shreds is being a "pompus ass" than so be it.

As I have already mentioned I won't be posting further here so please acknowledge that.

Bury Down The Hatchet

RichieLawlor wrote: »

There is no horse in training that could make a mug of Hurricane Fly, we always hear those stories coming out of Clossutton, wasn't it Champagne Agent last year or something.

So Young beat Hurricane Fly in a piece of work at home before Cheltenham last year. I don't know if he was his regular work companion or if it was just a once off. I'd be surprised if there were many, if any, more at home that would be able to go with him.