Survival groups?

Highnoon

It seems to be a common thread amongst anything you read about shtf scenarios that you link up with like minded individuals. The idea being that you have a better chance in numbers, deeper talent pool available etc. This doesn't necessarily mean having a retreat to retreat to ala Rawles but could just be friends in your area etc that could provide assistance or back up.

It's not something I've done to be honest. A combination of being a little embarrassed to bring it up and thinking maybe I'm being a little paranoid. I sometimes mention things to work mates to judge their reactions but they usually seem oblivious to things that could go wrong and even when they acknowledge that the euro (for example) is in crisis they seem to shrug their shoulders as if to say 'ah well sure what can we do?'. I get the impression that if I was to 'come out' if you like and tell them about books I've read and message boards like this It's fair to say I'd have a good chance of receiving the questioning frown, raised eye brow 'are you serious?'.

Just wondering if others have the same experience or if they are lucky enough to have people on the same wavelength that see no harm in preparing for whatever even if it's just a little extra food and supplies should another snow storm like last year hit never mind the possible (probable) collapse of the euro and all that may result because of that.

buckshotbrolan

Highnoon wrote: »

It seems to be a common thread amongst anything you read about shtf scenarios that you link up with like minded individuals. The idea being that you have a better chance in numbers, deeper talent pool available etc. This doesn't necessarily mean having a retreat to retreat to ala Rawles but could just be friends in your area etc that could provide assistance or back up.

It's not something I've done to be honest. A combination of being a little embarrassed to bring it up and thinking maybe I'm being a little paranoid. I sometimes mention things to work mates to judge their reactions but they usually seem oblivious to things that could go wrong and even when they acknowledge that the euro (for example) is in crisis they seem to shrug their shoulders as if to say 'ah well sure what can we do?'. I get the impression that if I was to 'come out' if you like and tell them about books I've read and message boards like this It's fair to say I'd have a good chance of receiving the questioning frown, raised eye brow 'are you serious?'.

Just wondering if others have the same experience or if they are lucky enough to have people on the same wavelength that see no harm in preparing for whatever even if it's just a little extra food and supplies should another snow storm like last year hit never mind the possible (probable) collapse of the euro and all that may result because of that.

I find it best to keep it on the down low. The more people you let know that you are prepaired for any SHTF secenario, the more people you will find knocking at your door when one does happen.
I also get the,"your taking the pi**" responce when speaking to people about survivalisum and being prepaired. I have only ever found people who are hunters share the same thoughts that I do (and people on this site).

waterboy15

I think what highnoon is trying to ask is how do you go about getting a community of like minded preppers to open up communications with each other so that you have a community ready to go in a shtf situation.

bonniebede

I was surprised when i mentioned it to someone and they said yes we do that to, and went on to lay out their financial strategy for working towards buying a rural retreat. Unfortunately they are in the uk:rolleyes:

THe questions i ask are
1. who would i not be able to leave out, i mean who would i share my food with even if i had to starve? Well i have a list, its small but real, and so i try to think of prepping for them too even if they don't.

2. Who would i want my group to be? Well i would be looking for able likeminded people with hopefully some survival and medical skills, as well as people who know how to grow stuff and work hard.

3. I am seriously thinking of drawing up a list. And approaching them and sounding them out. But i haven't tried it yet, so thats as far as i have got.

Lastly, i don't think it is that likely that we will ever have a 'wake up one morning and the world is gone scenario', if we do, well my survival group will be , obviously, the nearest group of people who have survived.
For most realistic scenarios, there will probably be a period of decline where it becomes clearer that priorities need to be drastically realigned. That might be the time have yor go to group ready to talk to.

bonniebede

sorry one other thought.

It seems obvious to me that if you are thinkng of a scenario where a small commuity iof people will need to pull together for the long haul it would be good to consider:

homogeneity - likemindedness. For me that would be primarily on religious grounds, others might have particular philosophies or ways of life they would not be willing to give up.

Common interest - seems like 'hobbies' could be a good breeding ground for building a micro community, like a group of gardeners who already share seeds and help, a group of huinting buddies, etc etc.

age and gender. There will have to be enough fit young people to support older less fit members, who ideally should be able to contribute in other ways, like knowledge , crafts etc.

People should be paired up or in family groups as much as possible, it makes people more stable and think more long term. Obviously a group of ten single lads and one female is a sort of scenario where you are only asking for trouble.

Make provision for children in the group otherwise it will not be viable in the longterm,

Grizzly 45

And that my friends is another huge quandry of the survivalist movement worldwide.Setting up the survivalist community.Sure ,it would be lovely to have a Rawles/countless Hollywood movie scenarios of a community,with a complete compliment of needed personel,trained soilders and exellent defensive personel and a plan to take on all comers and things.
People who I have spoken to in the years over in the US,say they know plenty of fammlies that have set up to survive but none really of any communities.Lets face it we as survivalists are a pretty independant bunch of people on our own .We chafe in many ways with what society imposes on us in laws and "for our own good" type of regulations.
How are we likely to get along then with a "leadership of individuals"??

Just for an example..We are having a job/given up on the idea of designing a survival knife!!What would it be like if we had to decide here on boards to defend a village??:eek::eek:
How do you choose a leader of such a community?The person who has put the most money into it,the most skilled military/security guy?
What happens if either of those crack under leadership pressure?Or wont pull their weight or set up their own Preatorian gaurd to enforce their will on the rest of you??

The problem of this is there is no enforcement of one persons individual will to command.If you vote them in democratically,what is there to enforce the mandate?If it is a dictatorship,what is there to keep the people from doing a midnight flit??
Personally,in the late 90s I was involved in setting up a UK/Irish survivalist network.[ALAS BABYLON!!! If that means somthing specific to anyone reading this,PM me.;)] We had a good selection of skills and people and were in contact by email,and private group chat and had a good inital meet in the UK to move further with plans to store each others gear that if somthing happened we could pitch up at an alt address and have kit pre cached ready to go.We were well expecting Y2k,and by midnight Dec 31st 1999 were well stocked and ready.Nothing happened,and Sept11th 2001 was a very tense night too,expecting some sort of kickoff as well.Guy who was the driving force behind it was an Uk ex military and knew his stuff.It fell apart by the second meeting as one bloke who wanted to be ruler,because he put"the most money into this ".
And that was that as they say.:(:(
So if anyone can figure out this intruiging group dynamics complex problem,let me and the worldwide survival community know please!

Broaching the subject..I've found somtimes if you are in a social group setting,and have just watched some sort of disaster movie[Good ol Lads night in with beer and pizza,and you can convince them to watch a film rather than a bunch of people kicking a lump of leather around a field:rolleyes:]
Invaribly somone will say somthing about the film[Taking Mad Max 2 Road warrior for example]About the V8 interceptor car,and how cool it would be to drive it in that situation.Throw one back like how did you think he kept it supplied in petrol before things got so bad and what was the point in still running highway patrols in the wasteland??

IOW get people talking about it in a fictious situation.This is one reason,and whoever thought of it was a genius to use the Zombie survival idea to get people thinking about prepping!!! the Z surviv concept is now global from Loop head,Ireland to Fairbanks Alaska.You can discuss anything about survivalism[apart from Ireland:rolleyes:]That would put anyones heart aghast if they were in Law enforcement or three letter agency and "survivalists" were talking about it.But because you are killing fictious creatures of the undead it is not taken seriously.
It has even got very serious organisations involved on a humourous level as well.Places like the centre for disease control in Atlanta ,USA.Have issued guidelines in what to do in a Zombie attack..Even the Ohio National Gaurd did a drill of a chemical spill train crash,in which the first responders are transformed into Zombies,as it was around Halloween,and at that time The Pentagon for the Hell of it "war gamed" a Zombie outbreak .:D
Now,if organisations like this can use this to their advantage in a humourus situation,we should be able to do this as well?

The "I'm stocked up and have a bunker with everything and a minigun" of talking WILL get you raised eyebrows,a lot of derisory comments,and no doubt IF it happens a slew of unwanted visitors wanting to get into your bunker ,supplies or whatever as they wernt arsed doing anything to prep themselves.Or you might be precived as a danger and the law enforcement types clean you out!!And they wont think twice of using violence to get and take it either.
[Shelter skelter syndrome]

Your survival plans should be yours and your closest fammlies busisness ONLY!! Not a bunch of people you met on the internet,or your best mates down in the pub..
Anyone outside that I'd only let in if I had personally seen that they have the same mindset,have made preperations to survive and I've seen it,as they have seen mine.[But not ALL of it of course;)],and are implicity trustworthy with your life.
Charity will truely begin at home post TSHTF.

Grizzly 45

bonniebede wrote: »

sorry one other thought.

It seems obvious to me that if you are thinkng of a scenario where a small commuity iof people will need to pull together for the long haul it would be good to consider:

homogeneity - likemindedness. For me that would be primarily on religious grounds, others might have particular philosophies or ways of life they would not be willing to give up.

Proably one way of keeping your survival group together,religion and the glue is "salvation"from whatever..But it can become somthing out of control as well..In that in fact your messiah becomes the be and end all.
Branch Davidians Waco and Jones town Guiana would be two exteemist versions of religious survivalist groups that came to sticky ends.

Common interest - seems like 'hobbies' could be a good breeding ground for building a micro community, like a group of gardeners who already share seeds and help, a group of huinting buddies, etc etc.

It does to a certain degree,but then whats the glue to hold it together,and make sure everyone pulls their weight?Its the reason we have various types of leadership and politics in mankinds history,everything from caveman tribalism to democracy.None have really been 100% effective.

age and gender. There will have to be enough fit young people to support older less fit members, who ideally should be able to contribute in other ways, like knowledge , crafts etc.

That is an intresting one,but a fallacy in most cases.If you have ever had to deal with older folks,you will know how set they become in their routines,get cranky about the slightest upset,cant or wont eat certain types of foods,need medicines and whatever.Now,stick them in a bunker or retreat in the middle of nowhere for a few months and watch the stress boil over.I'd say Grandad will just take all hs pills at once to save himself that misery!!!
"Granny bashing" happens in the most normal of times.What do you think it will be like in abnormal times??
As for knowledge and crafts.Its funny,but the older you get and I've talked to older folk who did intresting jobs in their youth.That they can remember almost second by second accounts of dealing with customers who were some way memorable.But cant remember one thing about the job or the process that they did for their livlyhood!!Or even on how to improve the process with todays materials!!nice if it happens,but I wont rely totally on it.

People should be paired up or in family groups as much as possible, it makes people more stable and think more long term. Obviously a group of ten single lads and one female is a sort of scenario where you are only asking for trouble.

Could it not be ten single girls and one fellah for a change??:D
Reckon the family that stays together,survives together.

Make provision for children in the group otherwise it will not be viable in the longterm

Thats going to be real fun getting a bunch of Xbox playing couch potatoes who have been cossetted all their lives from the nasty outside world to actually have to start doing things to keep themselves and their family alive.:rolleyes:

ShadowFox

I was thinking of ways to do this also
The cheapest and easyest radios to use at the moment are PMR446s how about we pick a channel and time on these to transmit to see who is reading the likes of this fourm and are interested but dont wish to make themselves known
I know range is an issue but in one way that would be a good thing and people that live closer to each other can get together

OneGoalNoSoul

grapeape wrote: »

I was thinking of ways to do this also
The cheapest and easyest radios to use at the moment are PMR446s how about we pick a channel and time on these to transmit to see who is reading the likes of this fourm and are interested but dont wish to make themselves known
I know range is an issue but in one way that would be a good thing and people that live closer to each other can get together

I think its an intresting idea. No one else thinks so?

Grizzly 45

Concepts good.But then we are all talking in clear,so anyone who wants can listen in who is still reading the posts here and isnt a survivalist and has no intention thereof.Whats the range and cost of these set?Mobile or base station?

ShadowFox

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Concepts good.But then we are all talking in clear,so anyone who wants can listen in who is still reading the posts here and isnt a survivalist and has no intention thereof.Whats the range and cost of these set?Mobile or base station?

No matter what comms you use someone will be listening or reading The pmr446s range between €40 and €120++ a set the range goes from 3km to 10km line of sight Ive a set of 10km ones only tried them 3km in a built up area so far and they are fine I just think it would be handy to have a way to keep in touch with like minded people in my area you could always have a number of channels set up so you dont use the same one all the time Its a pity that the frms radios are not allowed here as they can have up to 50 miles line of sight (im still thinking of having a set for when SHTF)

SasQuatch88

Hey guys, decided to have a ganders at this thread as it sparked my interest.
I do think about the idea of SHTF scenarios, and the thought always has crossed my mind "what if". :eek:

Grizzly 45

grapeape wrote: »

No matter what comms you use someone will be listening or reading The pmr446s range between €40 and €120++ a set the range goes from 3km to 10km line of sight Ive a set of 10km ones only tried them 3km in a built up area so far and they are fine I just think it would be handy to have a way to keep in touch with like minded people in my area you could always have a number of channels set up so you dont use the same one all the time Its a pity that the frms radios are not allowed here as they can have up to 50 miles line of sight (im still thinking of having a set for when SHTF)

Not a bad price at all.Trouble is; we would have to be within 10 klicks of each other to have a chat for a social evening pre TEOTWAWKI.Post,I dont think we are going to be yakking that much inclear.

FWIW,if we want to set up an "alliance" as I doubt a group /community in the traditional sense is a really feasible concept.I'd suggest maybe a bog normal meet somplace in a hotel for an overnighter to get to meet F2F and simply get to know each other and maybe swop emails and find out where we all are??Maybe if then somthing works out and folks want to stay in contact while it is still possible there is a wonderful free product to ensure no one reads mail or whatever.
Its called Pretty Good Privacy or PGP data encryption programmes.;)

If talking off boards.ie with whatever byte encryption,it would be safe enough.No doubt some computor nerd will say there is somthing better or its crackable or whatever...Fine...Use whatever is better.I doubt that PTB will be too intrested in cracking a 24/32 bit encryption programme to find our supply of fav surplus shops in Ireland list.Using it from the word go,it doesnt arouse suspicion.
FS Fortune 500 companies use it every day here in Ireland,and they comitt bigger crimes every day than a bunch of people talking about hoarding up some fuel ,beans and ammo!:pac:

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Its called Pretty Good Privacy or PGP data encryption programmes.;)

If talking off boards.ie with whatever byte encryption,it would be safe enough.No doubt some computor nerd will say there is somthing better or its crackable or whatever...Fine...Use whatever is better.I doubt that PTB will be too intrested in cracking a 24/32 bit encryption programme to find our supply of fav surplus shops in Ireland list.Using it from the word go,it doesnt arouse suspicion.

If you want to maintain anonymity and security splice your communication protocol into someone else's distributed-control botnet of minimal malignancy through a thermite deadman switch anonymous node in some coffin apartment in Hong Kong and disseminate your PGP encrypted messages via steganography in popular pr0n files on the torrent networks, welcome to the darknet. And even that will only keep you going as long as you don't become Persons Of Interest.

For meself I wouldn't bother. I've nothing to hide, let the government come and seize what they like, I have what I need right between my ears. If they want to take that away of course, they'll have themselves a problem. The very fact that you're posting on boards means you're basically pwned one way or the other.

Take comfort however, should TSHTF, the PTB will be far too busy staving off ruin to bother with minnows like us.

Tigger

Doc Ruby wrote: »

If you want to maintain anonymity and security splice your communication protocol into someone else's distributed-control botnet of minimal malignancy through a thermite deadman switch anonymous node in some coffin apartment in Hong Kong and disseminate your PGP encrypted messages via steganography in popular pr0n files on the torrent networks, welcome to the darknet. And even that will only keep you going as long as you don't become Persons Of Interest.

For meself I wouldn't bother. I've nothing to hide, let the government come and seize what they like, I have what I need right between my ears. If they want to take that away of course, they'll have themselves a problem. The very fact that you're posting on boards means you're basically pwned one way or the other.

Take comfort however, should TSHTF, the PTB will be far too busy staving off ruin to bother with minnows like us.

knowledge is light to carry

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

If you want to maintain anonymity and security splice your communication protocol into someone else's distributed-control botnet of minimal malignancy through a thermite deadman switch anonymous node in some coffin apartment in Hong Kong and disseminate your PGP encrypted messages via steganography in popular pr0n files on the torrent networks, welcome to the darknet. And even that will only keep you going as long as you don't become Persons Of Interest.

Wasnt I right about the computor nerd coming out of the closet???:p:p:p:D
In English ..that is????????:p

For meself I wouldn't bother. I've nothing to hide, let the government come and seize what they like, I have what I need right between my ears. If they want to take that away of course, they'll have themselves a problem.

Hmm quite a few people of a certain religious persuasion said between 1932 and 1945 in Europe when a funny little man of Austrian persuasion and dubious artistic talent got power in Germany.:eek::rolleyes:
Suggest you read up what happened to a certain mr PA Luty [deceased]in the UK for just writing a book on firearms in the 90s under the Blair dictatorship.:mad:

The very fact that you're posting on boards means you're basically pwned one way or the other.

Yeah,and...?? I've even been interviewed by it bythe Dept of Justice via the Gardai here Re my posts!!Then at least they know we are on their radar and what we are doing..They get really worried when people drop off the radar and go completly into black mode.
Same thing with the Islamiscts,dont worry about the noisey ones,its the quiet ones you got to watch.
Not that it matters much,by the time you become a person iof intrest,you could have blown up a capital city centre somplace and be happily hunting kids on an island somplace else within an hour.As Brevick did in Norway this year.:rolleyes::(

Take comfort however, should TSHTF, the PTB will be far too busy staving off ruin to bother with minnows like us.

[/QUOTE]
Indeed.. And the idea is to set up whatever before this all happens,so once you go black it is too late to start looking for you.

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Wasnt I right about the computor nerd coming out of the closet???:p:p:p:D
In English ..that is????????:p

Ah now this community of all groups shouldn't be mocking esoteric knowledge, haha!

The short version is if you want to maintain any semblance of real security or whatever, you have to break the law in several countries, basically hiding in a huge mob of criminals. Your conversations go unnoticed amid the general bedlam of their carry on, which the international community has yet to suppress, indicating its a good place to piggyback on for the time being.

Failing that encryption runs into one main problem:

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hmm quite a few people of a certain religious persuasion said between 1932 and 1945 in Europe when a funny little man of Austrian persuasion and dubious artistic talent got power in Germany.:eek::rolleyes:
Suggest you read up what happened to a certain mr PA Luty [deceased]in the UK for just writing a book on firearms in the 90s under the Blair dictatorship.:mad:

True, but like I said, there's a line beyond which you know legality is a formality, such as concentration camps and assassin squads. There's no indication that line is near being reached in this or any other developed country.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yeah,and...?? I've even been interviewed by it bythe Dept of Justice via the Gardai here Re my posts!!

As I said, pwned. To be honest I find the bushcrafting stuff a lot more interesting than any paramilitary TEOTWAWKI anyway.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed.. And the idea is to set up whatever before this all happens,so once you go black it is too late to start looking for you.

If I need ya, I'll find ya...

waterfordham

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Failing that encryption runs into one main problem:





... lots snipped...

If I need ya, I'll find ya...

Heh, I was wondering if someone would find that from xkcd. Anyways, yeah crypto can only take you so far. First problem is you should be familiar with using pgp or other tools (like using cacerts free certificates) long before the SHTF, as it's too late to learn then.

However, you can have safeguards in place for something like that. Several years ago, before radio stations streaming their content onto the internet was mainstream, I set something up surreptitiously in one of our fine educational institutions, in order to stream a pirate radio station to the Internet. If I didn't log in once a day and perform a specific action, the machine erased itself well enough to render the drive useless to anyone other than very skilled individuals.

waterfordham

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not a bad price at all.Trouble is; we would have to be within 10 klicks of each other to have a chat for a social evening pre TEOTWAWKI.Post,I dont think we are going to be yakking that much inclear.

With a bit more investment, take it to the shortwave bands, plenty free tools to do digital comms on shortwave now as well, not that I would condone any such activity however!

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Ah now this community of all groups shouldn't be mocking esoteric knowledge, haha!

No ones mocking,just proving my point that once somone mentions a computor a specialist will leap out and dismiss all and sundry.:D
Hmmm bashing people with a 5 dollar wrench,how crude and oafish.Be amazed what some people can take in pain.Scopolamine is your only man!:eek:

[/QUOTE]
True, but like I said, there's a line beyond which you know legality is a formality, such as concentration camps and assassin squads. There's no indication that line is near being reached in this or any other developed country.
[/QUOTE]

I think Doc,we might have passed that mark awhile ago.Things like the Patriot act,Regulatory powers of Investigation act[uk],no knock warrents,Guantanmo bay,indefinate detention[at her Majestys pleasure],
and the offences against the state acts,have certainly put us a long way down that road.Ok I certainly dont belive we are at the global UN black helicopters and mass detention centres all over the US and Europe yet,but we certainly are making steady progress there.:(

As I said, pwned. To be honest I find the bushcrafting stuff a lot more interesting than any paramilitary TEOTWAWKI anyway.

"Its the end of the world as we know it..And I feel fine!"REM:)
I'm not too worried about it.When I need to go I'll go and have fun finding me.Trouble is with bushcrafting is...Its a tempoary solution to a problem,not a solution to an ongoing problem.BTW recommend two books on the subject of bushcrafting on long term and how much fun it isnt.
The Wildman of the Clearwater is one,and

Can you Survive?By Robt De Pugh.
De Pugh was the founder of the Minute Man movement in the USA in the 1960s.This got him into a spot of bother with full auto weaponary and the Feds and the IRS.He went on the run for about two years using alot of bushcraft skills,and when he was captured/or surrenderd he wrote this book.Once you get over the Reds under the Bed bits and the more weirder things like America being invaded "Red Dawn" style.:rolleyes: Its intresting to see what he considerd essential for bushcraft survival,and alot of it I would agree with him.

If I need ya, I'll find ya...

Catch me..If you can!!:p:p

Grizzly 45

waterfordham wrote: »

Heh, I was wondering if someone would find that from xkcd. Anyways, yeah crypto can only take you so far. First problem is you should be familiar with using pgp or other tools (like using cacerts free certificates) long before the SHTF, as it's too late to learn then.

However, you can have safeguards in place for something like that. Several years ago, before radio stations streaming their content onto the internet was mainstream, I set something up surreptitiously in one of our fine educational institutions, in order to stream a pirate radio station to the Internet. If I didn't log in once a day and perform a specific action, the machine erased itself well enough to render the drive useless to anyone other than very skilled individuals.

Thing is guys,all we want this for is to have a private chat with ourselves without anyone unauthorised joining in or reading the mails or listening into the chat.[I belive SKYPE conversations can be PGPd as well].As you said it is pointless after the fact.I see this more as a tool to create whatever we need before the event so when it does go down.Everything is in place and everyone knows what to do.To activate it all it needs is one email with a single word sent to the group[Say for example ..JERICHO in the subject line.]That would be the final communication,as after that it is doubtful how long the Net would be up anymore.
Radio comms are fine,but I see the problem being distance,cost and people willing to learn their usage.

Doc Ruby

waterfordham wrote: »

If I didn't log in once a day and perform a specific action, the machine erased itself well enough to render the drive useless to anyone other than very skilled individuals.

Yeah, the thermite deadman switch in a Konger coffin is like the ultimate version of that.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

No ones mocking,just proving my point that once somone mentions a computor a specialist will leap out and dismiss all and sundry.:D

In the same way that car mechanic will tell you that painting go fasta stripes on your car won't make it go fasta, it will just attract attention. Nothing magical about computers, they are just like any other machine.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I think Doc,we might have passed that mark awhile ago.Things like the Patriot act,Regulatory powers of Investigation act[uk],no knock warrents,Guantanmo bay,indefinate detention[at her Majestys pleasure],
and the offences against the state acts,have certainly put us a long way down that road.Ok I certainly dont belive we are at the global UN black helicopters and mass detention centres all over the US and Europe yet,but we certainly are making steady progress there.:(

I don't buy it. Yes, there are real problems with the democratic process in a lot of countries, but having lived under an actual totalitarian government for a while believe me you're nowhere near looking over your shoulder yet, and probably never will be.

The fringe like to wail and beat their breasts in anguish over the loss of whatever but really, most of them are off their heads ex military grunts who took too much LSD after watching platoon and are now living in a state of constant insane paranoia, bouncing ideas off one another's internet sounding drums and working themselves into a frenzy.

Or to put it simply, if there were totalitarian problems you wouldn't be able to build a bunker in the first place.

The rest of the problems you fix with your vote.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'm not too worried about it.When I need to go I'll go and have fun finding me.Trouble is with bushcrafting is...Its a tempoary solution to a problem,not a solution to an ongoing problem.BTW recommend two books on the subject of bushcrafting on long term and how much fun it isnt.

Well see that's what I mean. I'm not looking for a solution to a problem or to build a bunker, I'm looking for a fun and awesome pastime I can do outdoors and maybe someday teach others what I've learned. I think its important socially as well to preserve and recover those skills and knowledge that were once commonplace.

I also think its important to have some good preparations in place in case of emergencies, and backups in case main systems go down. I don't like that these ideas are adopted by unstable people and used to further some mad agenda.

Not that anyone here is anything of the sort, but you know the types I'm talking about.

eth0

Doc Ruby wrote: »

The trick is to make the data look unimportant. A lot of people would go for truecrypt but I'd be weary that it would be easily possible to detect partitions.

For communications one-time pads are the way to go and destroy the pad as you use it. for storage of data don't make it look important. don't put obviously encrypted stuff in a safe. just have it thrown the place and have the information hidden in files, perhaps spread across multiple devices split in such a way that having only one would be useless. the other ones could be stored off-site.

definitely don't make it obvious that there's something that can be got by torturing for a password

even if you're going to a dodgy country (such as USA, known for border-checking laptops) then don't have any interesting stuff stored on it. Download them later through SSH using someone elses wifi connection in an area you don't plan to stay in long

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

In the same way that car mechanic will tell you that painting go fasta stripes on your car won't make it go fasta, it will just attract attention. Nothing magical about computers, they are just like any other machine.

Apart from when they break down,unfixable without spare parts of a highly sophisticated industrial society,and unless you can use total incomhensible maths[to me anyway] you can say adios to getting it customised to your specs in programmes.

I don't buy it. Yes, there are real problems with the democratic process in a lot of countries, but having lived under an actual totalitarian government

Where???Just curious.I'd agree with you if it is the UK.:p

for a while believe me you're nowhere near looking over your shoulder yet, and probably never will be

.

If you belive so....I dont think it is that safe here in our "democracies " anymore either,[where they are actually constitutional republics].For the examples I quoted.

The fringe like to wail and beat their breasts in anguish over the loss of whatever but really, most of them are off their heads ex military grunts who took too much LSD after watching platoon and are now living in a state of constant insane paranoia, bouncing ideas off one another's internet sounding drums and working themselves into a frenzy.

BROAD,SWEEPING STATEMENT!And very dangerous ASSumption.
LSD wasnt a drug of choice in Nam...When weed was plentiful.
Not one Vet I've ever spoken to thinks Platoon was nothing more than Oliver Stones POS wet dream of what Nam was like.

Or to put it simply, if there were totalitarian problems you wouldn't be able to build a bunker in the first place.

Didnt say there ARE !! I said we are GETTING THERE!:rolleyes:

The rest of the problems you fix with your vote.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: 'Nuff said!

Well see that's what I mean. I'm not looking for a solution to a problem or to build a bunker, I'm looking for a fun and awesome pastime I can do outdoors and maybe someday teach others what I've learned. I think its important socially as well to preserve and recover those skills and knowledge that were once commonplace.

Well, if you consider living in twig shelters and,making fire by rubbing two boy scouts together,and living like a primitive a long term solution to survivalism,good luck.You will be a corpse in short order!!Thats why I suggest you READ those two books first then consider if it is a viable long term survival lifestyle choice.Or better still try it.I wouldnt wish living by bushcraft in this season and weather on my worst enemy.:eek:
Its bare bones life support for a hopefully limited period of time.Not a full blown continueus life.Good to know and have but not continous day in day out.Nor is it a lost skill set .Anyone who has been in the boy scouts will have this down.Maybe they dont teach it anymore in the scouts,proably too un PC??:rolleyes:

I also think its important to have some good preparations in place in case of emergencies, and backups in case main systems go down. I don't like that these ideas are adopted by unstable people and used to further some mad agenda

.

Nothing you can do about it I'm afraid!
Its been a bugbear of the movement for decades and one the media loves to hop on at any given chance.
BTW those are what you might want to differiante into the "milita movements." Which are really only a US a phenomen,and despite the more
wackier and hot air blowing of their leaders,are actually pretty harmless and so full of Federal undercover agents as to be hopeless at doing anything apart from gipping their members of money.

Having preparations in place is vital,bushcraft is one of them,but not the be and end all either.Just as the bunker and shotgun mentality isnt either.
It is a multifaceted lifestyle rather than a hobby.[A hobby IMO is stamp collecting,or train spotting or somthing like that.]

Grizzly 45

Sheeshh! Sorry I suggested using encryption for a way for people to have a private chat in Ireland via their emails.:D

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Apart from when they break down,unfixable without spare parts of a highly sophisticated industrial society,and unless you can use total incomhensible maths[to me anyway] you can say adios to getting it customised to your specs in programmes.

In that event its all fallen apart anyway, the fall of Rome, which as I said I don't subscribe to. The magnitude of events that would lead a tremendously powerful industrialised society to collapse to that level will make survival a roll of the dice anyway, regardless of what you've prepared.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you belive so....I dont think it is that safe here in our "democracies " anymore either,[where they are actually constitutional republics].For the examples I quoted.

The fact that we're able to have this conversation without fear of the 3 am housecall indicates otherwise.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

BROAD,SWEEPING STATEMENT!And very dangerous ASSumption.
LSD wasnt a drug of choice in Nam...When weed was plentiful.
Not one Vet I've ever spoken to thinks Platoon was nothing more than Oliver Stones POS wet dream of what Nam was like.

Oh I didn't say vets, just people who've watched that movie and reckon its the done thing.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Its bare bones life support for a hopefully limited period of time.Not a full blown continueus life.Good to know and have but not continous day in day out.Nor is it a lost skill set .Anyone who has been in the boy scouts will have this down.Maybe they dont teach it anymore in the scouts,proably too un PC??:rolleyes:

A couple of things here - in the event of a total collapse, you won't be fighting government forces and will therefore be able to construct more permanent shelter, harvest crops and so on. The second thing, there's a lot more to bushcraft than they teach in the scouts. The best of these lads can be given a sharp piece of metal and dropped in a bog, before swaggering out a month later wearing an elegantly tailored woven suit with a pouch full of valuable trade goods, better fed than when they went in.

If on the other hand you plan to run an insurgency against an extant modern government, you're on a hiding to nothing unless you happen to have your own private army. And its people trying to form communities into these forces with hysteria and radicalisation that I have a serious problem with.

The place to fight that battle is at the ballot box.

What I'd like to see is a group able to present itself to the larger community to help in the event of someone going missing, emergencies, and disasters, a group able to look after itself, a group interested in educating people about their environment and living with it.

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

In that event its all fallen apart anyway, the fall of Rome, which as I said I don't subscribe to. The magnitude of events that would lead a tremendously powerful industrialised society to collapse to that level will make survival a roll of the dice anyway, regardless of what you've prepared.

So you consider that possibility an impossibility then???
Funny then you mention the Roman Empire,The comparision between the modern Western society and the decline of Rome with its decadance and surplus pouplation of proletariat is quite striking.

The fact that we're able to have this conversation without fear of the 3 am housecall indicates otherwise.

Well as I said I had a less than friendly chat with my local CS about posts here a few years ago,and I reckon If you read about Mr Luty,you might think somwhat differently. Try posting as a radical Muslim over in GB on some websites and I think you might fear the black suited Ninja thugs too.

Oh I didn't say vets, just people who've watched that movie and reckon its the done thing.

most of them are off their heads ex military grunts who took too much LSD after watching platoon and are now living in a state of constant insane paranoia.

Nuff said there I think!:rolleyes:

A couple of things here - in the event of a total collapse, you won't be fighting government forces and will therefore be able to construct more permanent shelter, harvest crops and so on. The second thing, there's a lot more to bushcraft than they teach in the scouts. The best of these lads can be given a sharp piece of metal and dropped in a bog, before swaggering out a month later wearing an elegantly tailored woven suit with a pouch full of valuable trade goods, better fed than when they went in.

No you will be fighting renegade or shatterd units or deserters,or units that may or maybe not be under some local control of a local warlord,or remenant of orginal Govt. All you have to do is look at the chaos of Yougoslavia in the 90s or Chechyna to see how that will go.Now if your Boyscout and your pleasent little farm ing community will survive that in one piece without being burned to the ground,looted and raped on a regular basis without some form of defence??As a matter of fact It sounds like just a place to move in and take over so you can do all the hard work for me Doc!!:D:D[Just kidding!]

If on the other hand you plan to run an insurgency against an extant modern government, you're on a hiding to nothing unless you happen to have your own private army. And its people trying to form communities into these forces with hysteria and radicalisation that I have a serious problem with.

And there you miss the point or chose to ignore it.I said these are blow hard,Federal infiltrated money con artists rather than any serious threat to the USA.They come and go as much as survivalist groups and suffer the same problem of leadership.They are less of a threat than the Animal Liberation Front according to FBI statistics of 2008.
The only reason it is linked with survivalism is it sells more media slop on the TV screen or on paper.Again I would beseech all of you to read Apcolypse Tomrrow by Duncan long to understand how and why the survivalist movement came about and why it got negative media in the 1980s to today.Seriously people!! The more you know about this aspect the better you can counter the negative image of it.

The place to fight that battle is at the ballot box.

Here being a great example right??? Lisbon 1 and Lisbon2 ring any bells??Please keep using the ballot box until the Govt gets the right decision for our European overlords...;)

What I'd like to see is a group able to present itself to the larger community to help in the event of someone going missing, emergencies, and disasters, a group able to look after itself, a group interested in educating people about their environment and living with it.

Good luck with that pipe dream!!
The PTB will TELL you to get lost as THEY are the only qualified personel to deal with such situations.Sure dont they have such fine operations like FEMA..Who were as helpful as an ashtray on a motorbike in three days post Katrina,and it took The US National Gaurd resources to start sorting out that mess.:rolleyes:Once GWB woke up to the fact! BUT they will gladly requsition your stores and equipment once the knowledge is out there under some BS like "national emergency","patriotism" or some other such Bull!
The sheeple will just Baaa at you and bleat that "the govt"will look after them in times of crises.Like herding them into large football stadiums pre Katrina.Where they can live in their own filth,be raped ,murderd and rob each other for a week or so until the Govt comes to rescue them,and they will complain that they werent looked after quicker,with social welfare cheques,plasma tvs and ass wipers.:mad:
It will be really nice if this human herd gets culled abit.Dont waste your time trying to educate the masses in survival.You either have an intrest or you dont.

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So you consider that possibility an impossibility then???
Funny then you mention the Roman Empire,The comparision between the modern Western society and the decline of Rome with its decadance and surplus pouplation of proletariat is quite striking.

Anything is possible, of course. All I'm saying is anything big enough to wipe out modern civilisation to the degree that computers become interesting pieces of art deco isn't going to leave much else standing.

The collapse of the Roman empire came about largely through infighting resulting in the more militarily capable barbarians conquring half the empire. Do you see any such conditions locally or globally?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Try posting as a radical Muslim over in GB on some websites and I think you might fear the black suited Ninja thugs too.

Reckon there might be a good reason for that?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

most of them are off their heads ex military grunts who took too much LSD after watching platoon and are now living in a state of constant insane paranoia.

Nuff said there I think!:rolleyes:

Yeah, there you're assuming everyone who spent some time in the military is an actual vet rather than a big talker.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

No you will be fighting renegade or shatterd units or deserters,or units that may or maybe not be under some local control of a local warlord,or remenant of orginal Govt. All you have to do is look at the chaos of Yougoslavia in the 90s or Chechyna to see how that will go.Now if your Boyscout and your pleasent little farm ing community will survive that in one piece without being burned to the ground,looted and raped on a regular basis without some form of defence??As a matter of fact It sounds like just a place to move in and take over so you can do all the hard work for me Doc!!:D:D[Just kidding!]

Vagabond bandidos are easy pickings for a well organised community, which any community I was involved in would be, lets just say crime has dropped drastically since I joined the residents association. The power of modern militaries isn't in automatic weapons and crazed berserkers, its in dedicated command, communications and control structures. That's how the Mongols conquered most of eurasia. Take that away and all you have left are nomads, and what sort of track record have they against properly organised groups.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The more you know about this aspect the better you can counter the negative image of it.

So why bother with encrypted communications?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Here being a great example right??? Lisbon 1 and Lisbon2 ring any bells??Please keep using the ballot box until the Govt gets the right decision for our European overlords...;)

As I said, there are problems, of course. But I'm a lot happier dropping ballots than empty clips.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Good luck with that pipe dream!!
The PTB will TELL you to get lost as THEY are the only qualified personel to deal with such situations.Sure dont they have such fine operations like FEMA..Who were as helpful as an ashtray on a motorbike in three days post Katrina,and it took The US National Gaurd resources to start sorting out that mess.:rolleyes:Once GWB woke up to the fact! BUT they will gladly requsition your stores and equipment once the knowledge is out there under some BS like "national emergency","patriotism" or some other such Bull!
The sheeple will just Baaa at you and bleat that "the govt"will look after them in times of crises.Like herding them into large football stadiums pre Katrina.Where they can live in their own filth,be raped ,murderd and rob each other for a week or so until the Govt comes to rescue them,and they will complain that they werent looked after quicker,with social welfare cheques,plasma tvs and ass wipers.:mad:

But sure what, on the one hand, you're saying that the PTB won't help anyone, and on the other hand you're saying the wider community (what I was talking about) won't welcome help. Of course they will. And yes, even the government will accept unorthodox help, witness the ham operators in Katrina.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It will be really nice if this human herd gets culled abit.

Ach.

bonniebede

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Proably one way of keeping your survival group together,religion and the glue is "salvation"from whatever..But it can become somthing out of control as well..In that in fact your messiah becomes the be and end all.
Branch Davidians Waco and Jones town Guiana would be two exteemist versions of religious survivalist groups that came to sticky ends.

That is an intresting one,but a fallacy in most cases.If you have ever had to deal with older folks,you will know how set they become in their routines,get cranky about the slightest upset,cant or wont eat certain types of foods,need medicines and whatever.Now,stick them in a bunker or retreat in the middle of nowhere for a few months and watch the stress boil over.I'd say Grandad will just take all hs pills at once to save himself that misery!!!

Could it not be ten single girls and one fellah for a change??:D
Reckon the family that stays together,survives together.


Thats going to be real fun getting a bunch of Xbox playing couch potatoes who have been cossetted all their lives from the nasty outside world to actually have to start doing things to keep themselves and their family alive.:rolleyes:

I get it that some religious people are nuts. But not all are, and I’m not, at least IMHO! :rolleyes:
:mad:Looking after the old folks (and the young) is the mark of civilisation, and is what preppers are trying to save not to abandon. They can contribute very important things to any small community. If one doesn’t get that, I think one is already so individualistic as to probably poison any attempt to build a post-collapse community. Anyway, if modern medicine and drugs disappeared, like in the past, older people are either healthy and so able to contribute or dead. Very few long lingering chronically ill of any age.
If you are raising couch potatoes instead of seed potatoes, good luck to you. They will probably survive fine, by eating you.:D
10 girls to one fella? Dream on.:P

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Doc Ruby;76241031]Anything is possible, of course. All I'm saying is anything big enough to wipe out modern civilisation to the degree that computers become interesting pieces of art deco isn't going to leave much else standing.

EMP pulse?? suitcase nuke or dirty bomb??

The collapse of the Roman empire came about largely through infighting resulting in the more militarily capable barbarians conquring half the empire. Do you see any such conditions locally or globally

?

So incompetant corrupt leadership and dictatorship in the form of the Ceasers,interbreeding of the leadership on a family level producing halfwits or outright loons to sit on the throne had nothing to do with it either?
Or bankrupting the public funds for bread and circuses to keep pouplarity with the unemployed idele masses AKA the Proletariat,nothing either?Nor fruitless military ventures into Germania,or Pictland,nor having to hire private military contractors of their day [IE mercenaries] to keep order or the leigons numbers up?or Of course the inability to pay for artisans to keep the water running,the baths heated and what not.IF there were any trained to do so in the first place.
Hmmm ...yeah...there is quite a bit of simmilarity to the starting decline of the Western World.

Reckon there might be a good reason for that?

there should be no call for secret police in a democracy.But it is also a facile arguement along the "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide" bleat.That is the kind of mindset that also allows dictatorships to flourish.

Yeah, there you're assuming everyone who spent some time in the military is an actual vet rather than a big talker

.

Im not assuming anything..You are in the fact you made a broad sweeping amd very stupid statement and I'm pulling you on it!!For a start you are clearly ignorant of the meaning of the term "Grunt".It is a term of endearment/dispragement for the United States Marine Corps,not the entire five branches of the US armed forces!So are you suggesting that most ex USMC personel of a certain vintage are all paranoid acid heads???THIN Ice with me if you are friend!:mad::mad:

Vagabond bandidos are easy pickings for a well organised community, which any community I was involved in would be, lets just say crime has dropped drastically since I joined the residents association. The power of modern militaries isn't in automatic weapons and crazed berserkers, its in dedicated command, communications and control structures. That's how the Mongols conquered most of eurasia. Take that away and all you have left are nomads, and what sort of track record have they against properly organised groups.

What army were you in that used "crazed berserkers"[a double adjective BTW]The Vikings???LOL:D
Go on outta that!! A hastily assembled bunch of local yokels is not going to be a match against a ex SF/police unit that has gone renegade or freelance.They will thave the disipline,command and control,proably the firepower and most of all the training.To chop through a bunch of farm boys armed with shotguns!!They are set up,trained and sole purpose is literally to deal with hostile small units .IE gangs and terrorists.

So unless YOU are on their level of training,can assemble and train up a unit of like skill with your community and keep a military style regime of patrols,scouts and sentries,which you personally dont want to do or think it is unnecessary.hoe are your community going to face that kind of a threat??

Hmm I dont think Ghengis Kahn,Attila the Hun,Armenius,and Salah a dhin didnt do too badly against organised civilisations??All were nomadic.

So why bother with encrypted communications?

Sigh!! As per this post??????[Waterboy]
I think what highnoon is trying to ask is how do you go about getting a community of like minded preppers to open up communications with each other so that you have a community ready to go in a shtf situation.

Think this was the whole point some effective method of private communications amongst ourselves???

As I said, there are problems, of course. But I'm a lot happier dropping ballots than empty clips.

Yes ,but how long is this going to last when people start realising that voting wont get you anything better either.
Democracry rests on four boxes,soap box,ballot box,jury box,and cartridge box.Which one is left here in Ireland???

But sure what, on the one hand, you're saying that the PTB won't help anyone, and on the other hand you're saying the wider community (what I was talking about) won't welcome help. Of course they will. And yes, even the government will accept unorthodox help, witness the ham operators in Katrina.

Yeah and will you get any thanks for it,pre or post event??Not likely! In the sense you wont get any recognition pre event apart from the PTB saying they can manage and you are "mere civillians" so sod off.Post you might get a thank you note in the papers with some fool glad handing you.But anyting practical..Forget it!!

Ach

Will happen eventually!

Grizzly 45

bonniebede wrote:

I get it that some religious people are nuts. But not all are, and I’m not, at least IMHO! :rolleyes

Hopefully that you are personally sane..But if I had it my way organised religion would be banned from planet Earth!! For somthing that has been brought from "the Gods" saying basically "be nice to one another".We have used it to create 99% of the problems on this little planet of ours amongst ourselves!!A thousand years give or take since we went and nailed up a carpenter from Nazereth to two railway sleepers,who was basically saying love your fellow man.We have been busily mudering,slaughtering and butchering each other and other folks who belived in the same message albeit in a different way in his name,be it Christ,Allah,Yaweh,or whatever you are having yourself.
Keep it!

:mad:Looking after the old folks (and the young) is the mark of civilisation, and is what preppers are trying to save not to abandon.

Oh dear!!Civilisation isnt as cracked up as it is meant to be.Especially when the crisis and shtstorm goes down.Personally,I would hate to inflict the "brave new world" on senior citizens.Well and good if they are healthy and fit.But if they are like most,infirm ,weak,on medication and possibly a bit dotty.What sort of quality of life will THEY have??

They can contribute very important things to any small community

.

Such as????Give me three examples ..

If one doesn’t get that, I think one is already so individualistic as to probably poison any attempt to build a post-collapse community.

[No just realistic!!And realism is somthing needed here.You wont have the manpower,supplies and proably less time to look after the old and infirm as we can today.Its going to be tough enough on somone young and healthy,you are going to be living rough,eating things we would turn up our noses at today,or monotonously eating the same thing for weeks.Under contious stress,and doing a physically demanding day to maybe catch a few hours kip in a bunk somwhere,with a guy or gal snoring above youmaybe,and then be out on patrol at oh dark hundred.And you want to inflict THAT kind of a life on an old man or woman???:rolleyes:

Anyway, if modern medicine and drugs disappeared, like in the past,[/QUOTEHow could "modern medicines" disapper "like in the past??"
Somone develop a time displacement machine you aint telling us about??:P
Think you mean pre modern medicines:D.And yeah it is a reason alot of old folks are living past their natural lifespan too,thanks to modern science and medicine.In days of yore,all people did was make the aged as comfortable as best in the corner of the chminney in the cottage,and let them get on with either going senile or dying.Or if totally gaga packed them off to the work house or lunatic asylum.
Quite caring too!:rolleyes:

older people are either healthy and so able to contribute or dead. Very few long lingering chronically ill of any age.

So what are you going to do with them then ???My grandfather lived til he was 99,hunted til he was 95.But he did it because he was of a generation and race that has long gone and had an iron disipline in both body and mind that people wonderd about half his age.His biggest complaint was his mind was thankfully sharp as anything until he died,but his body was wasted ,and that was his greatest torture,aches ,pains,misery on a 24 hour basis.He said at the end he welcomed Death,as the indignity and pain of old age was too much for him anymore.How or what pray tell could you look after a man like that post TEOTWAWKI???

If you are raising couch potatoes instead of seed potatoes, good luck to you. They will probably survive fine, by eating you.:D

C'mon you dont think stories like Hansel and Gretel didnt have some factual basis of the old witch fattening up the kids to eat them??:D
Sorry kids will have to learn fast or die as well.

[10 girls to one fella? Dream on.:P

Ah feminist chauvinistic pig!!!!:DUnfortunatly women are attracted to the strongest in a situation like this.Nature of the beast an all that.:cool::D

Doc Ruby

You live in an entertaining world Grizz, I'll give you that.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sigh!! As per this post??????[Waterboy]
I think what highnoon is trying to ask is how do you go about getting a community of like minded preppers to open up communications with each other so that you have a community ready to go in a shtf situation.

Think this was the whole point some effective method of private communications amongst ourselves???

Members of the general public are not going to be able to listen in on something like a private mailing list, even if they did care enough to bother. The only ones who have that capability are usually governmental, so encrypting communications is not just pointless it's counterproductive, as it attracts official attention. Unless you were planning to swap tips on how to make a semi auto full auto or produce semtex or something.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yeah and will you get any thanks for it,pre or post event??Not likely! In the sense you wont get any recognition pre event apart from the PTB saying they can manage and you are "mere civillians" so sod off.Post you might get a thank you note in the papers with some fool glad handing you.But anyting practical..Forget it!!

First off, so what. You help people in emergencies because they need help, not because you're getting paid at the end. Secondly, yes groups have gotten recognition and funding for stepping in with help.

And, for the first time, the federal government will help hams help others. The Corporation for National and Community Service (CNCS) will provide a $100,000 grant supplement to ARRL to support its emergency communication operators in states affected by Hurricane Katrina. The grant will help to fund what is being termed “Ham Aid,” a new program to support amateur radio volunteers deployed in the field in disaster-stricken areas.

bonniebede

Well I think on some things we might have to agree to differ. I prefer to take a rational approach to life thats why i am religious, but probably should leave that discussion to the religion forum, if you are interested.

BTw , my bible says ' let him who will not work, let him not eat' , is that hard nosed enough for you?

Three things old people could contribute....
Knowledge and skills.... my old dad used to snare rabbtis, he never did teach me how, but now i am trying to learn i wish he was around.

Child care...when your ten women start popping out the next generation of workforce, it will be quite an effort to raise them and an extra pair of hands, or rather an extra lap to sit on is very very useful.


Continuity of culture...don't want to go all 'lord of the the flies' here. Civilisation is worth the effort, the thing which gives people the hope and reason to go on in the face of the daily drudgery. Generational respect and continuity has been the hall mark of every enduring community group ever.

I guess i am preparing to survive, but hoping to thrive, even in a post collapse world. Thriving for me will mean more than food on the table, it will mean civility, manners, respect for other human beings young and old, the strong serving the weak, (not serving them up for dinner:D).

Strong and weak in survival situations in the long term is more about mental attitude than physical attributes. Maturer people may have a toughness and grit that others don't.

Besides which, I am heading into the maturer category myself at this stage.
Oh an you misinterpret. I am definitely not a feminist chauvinist. Just the opposite. I simply thing that in a situation where child bearing and rearing became a costly exercise for women again, it would entail the re-emergence of behaviours which favoured the finding and retaining of an industrious self controlled mate; one who could show by his behaviour that he would be able to provide for you and the children in the long term, not leave you literally holding the baby.

There is no getting away from it, if you want to build a strong community which will last for a long time, it has to have a healthy set of intergenerational relationships. Check out the current population stats in our declining civilisation to see what happens longterm to cultures that don't nurture their own young.

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You live in an entertaining world Grizz, I'll give you that.

Members of the general public are not going to be able to listen in on something like a private mailing list, even if they did care enough to bother. The only ones who have that capability are usually governmental, so encrypting communications is not just pointless it's counterproductive, as it attracts official attention. Unless you were planning to swap tips on how to make a semi auto full auto or produce semtex or something.

For the last time!!The idea was formulated awhile back that we wanted a group comms for people HERE on the board to chat in privacy.As that was the problem I proposed a solution,which I now wish I hadnt!! YOU came in with allsorts of computor doublespeak and what not and it has gone off track..If you all want to talk on radios that cost more money,learn ham radio or whatever, fine!!! Kind of stupid as by the admission the things only have a 10 klick range.While the functioning Net with a FREE PGP programme costs nothing !!Now I dont know where you are getting all this other BS from about Semtex and full auto from!!!And if Fortune 500 companies use encryption on a day to day basisIN IRELAND without the Govt/NWO or whatever other fantasy you belive is reading our mail on a daily basis without fear,why cant we??but hey if itis too paranoid for you....Lets forget the whole thing and spend money on radio sets!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
So we can advertie where we are and talk to noone pre SHTF as we are out of range of each other.

First off, so what. You help people in emergencies because they need help, not because you're getting paid at the end.

AH!!! Human altruism!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: How noble!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:How pathetic!!!

Secondly, yes groups have gotten recognition and funding for stepping in with help.

Simply because it suits Uncle Sam to do so ,and to have another bit of control of an asset that might go against him.

waterfordham

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You live in an entertaining world Grizz, I'll give you that.

For the last time!!The idea was formulated awhile back that we wanted a group comms for people HERE on the board to chat in privacy.As that was the problem I proposed a solution,which I now wish I hadnt!!

Hmm, ok, fundamentally, I agree it's a good idea. That said, there's implications through going through hosted services. If one was to go down the text based (IRC) route, you are dependent on 'infrastructure' somewhere (IMHO, preferably outside this jurisdiction). Also, depending on how paranoid you wanted to be, your computer will 'leak' information to the server, such as IP address etc etc, you need to think about that as well.

It's a fair point, all of us use encryption every day, but encryption is the easy bit IMHO. PGP/CACERT is good for emails, but you need to build up the 'web of trust', i.e. someone 'vouches' that you are who you claim to be. Once you get the pgp tools (or certificates) integrated into your email routine, it's not too cumbersome after that.

I think a mixture of both would be more useful.

As to altruism, we'll agree to differ, it has its place. There are quite a few folk alive today just because someone stopped to ask "are you ok?"

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Simply because it suits Uncle Sam to do so ,and to have another bit of control of an asset that might go against him.

We'll agree to differ. Amateur Radio is a last resort (after that your using runners), they didn't have control of anything, that was the problem.

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And if Fortune 500 companies use encryption on a day to day basisIN IRELAND without the Govt/NWO or whatever other fantasy you belive is reading our mail on a daily basis without fear,why cant we??

I'll try one last time, and you may take it or leave it. You're going to get high fived (flagged and bagged by your good buddy five eyes) if you start any encrypted "survival network" cloak and dagger schoolyard bullshit, faster than you can say "fuck me that was smooth".

I'm aware that its unlikely to make a dent, but nonetheless.

Doc Ruby

waterfordham wrote: »

As to altruism, we'll agree to differ, it has its place. There are quite a few folk alive today just because someone stopped to ask "are you ok?"

Thats pretty much what I was saying.

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'll try one last time, and you may take it or leave it. You're going to get high fived (flagged and bagged by your good buddy five eyes) if you start any encrypted "survival network" cloak and dagger schoolyard bullshit, faster than you can say "fuck me that was smooth".

I'm aware that its unlikely to make a dent, but nonetheless.

Do what you want!!AFIC you can use tin cans and string to communicate to each other!!And of course you are NOT going to get picked up by yakking away on Ham /CB or other radio bands comms that any halfway decent scanner is going to pick up and NOT give away your positions??Well,you wont be talking to anyone but yourself as you only have a 10 kilometer range....There are your FACTS Doc...
.Now Do tell me with what was the original post in mind....of a way of people in this group talking to each other securely..What is YOUR solution??As we havent heard YOUR solution,apart from plenty of strawmen and computor nerd chatter of how this wont work,and paranoid bull**** that all 3letter agencies from the NSA to whoever will be switching on their Kray supercomputor to crack our 24 bit PGP chat!!!

Floors all yours Doc...!!!Lets hear your realistic,doesnt cost the Earth,does not require obvious and expensive equipment and antennas, that has NATIONAL range [IE over 100 klicks] and doesnt require a whole lot of liscensing and learning!!Oh and is encrypt secure too!!!
Lets hear it!!

Grizzly 45

waterfordham wrote: »

Hmm, ok, fundamentally, I agree it's a good idea. That said, there's implications through going through hosted services. If one was to go down the text based (IRC) route, you are dependent on 'infrastructure' somewhere (IMHO, preferably outside this jurisdiction). Also, depending on how paranoid you wanted to be, your computer will 'leak' information to the server, such as IP address etc etc, you need to think about that as well.

It's a fair point, all of us use encryption every day, but encryption is the easy bit IMHO. PGP/CACERT is good for emails, but you need to build up the 'web of trust', i.e. someone 'vouches' that you are who you claim to be. Once you get the pgp tools (or certificates) integrated into your email routine, it's not too cumbersome after that.

I think a mixture of both would be more useful.

Guys,Nothing is 100% secure.And I'm the first to know and admit that.
We can chop and anaylise this till the cows come home.Unless this gets developed into some sort of super heavy survivalist group which I have my 100% doubts about.All we want is some way of communicating that is within the original parameters of the post.Does it work?Yes/ No?

Do we need to set it up that we are on a security level of launch codes for nuke missiles NO

Do we need it to be able to chat to each other about what we are stockpiling in whatever or how to bug out of some place without our work colleuges saying you are weird,or someone trying to find out what our plans are so they can help themselves to our work at the end of the day?YES

Will it attract govt attention?
Proably but then those depts that want to know about this IE DOJ C4 division[Happy new year guys&gals],G2 and any others already do by simply reading it here and already know our IP addresses etc already if they want to.

Does it cost alot in extra equipment?NO You already have a computor,and can download it for free .

Do you need to liscense it or learn alot ?NO

Will it work post TETOWAKI ?Proably not,but then it should have fulfilled our purpose or whoevers purpose.

A mixture is fine..But it is not in the current situation for the OP a viable or sensible option.It will come into its own when or if local groups are set up and want a backup disaster or whatever comms system.But for idle chitchat between us all over the 32 and beyond .This wont work!!

As to altruism, we'll agree to differ, it has its place. There are quite a few folk alive today just because someone stopped to ask "are you ok?"

Including one persons life saved by yours truly,but dont expect to be able to save the world in a situation like this.It is everyone for themselves and the Devil take the hindmost.

We'll agree to differ. Amateur Radio is a last resort (after that your using runners), they didn't have control of anything, that was the problem.

But they do now,and if I recall the entire FCC Ham operators liscense was overhauled and made harder.Survivalist Ham operators were going spa about it in the US this year.

Grizzly 45

bonniebede wrote: »

Well I think on some things we might have to agree to differ. I prefer to take a rational approach to life thats why i am religious, but probably should leave that discussion to the religion forum, if you are interested.

Indeed one should disagree otherwise it would be a very boring world.
As I said im an atheist,and want nothing to do with religion as I consider it an evil that has brought nothing but death,war and misery to humanity,in the name of "love and peace".So no ..not particulary intrested.

BTw , my bible says ' let him who will not work, let him not eat' , is that hard nosed enough for you?

It says quite alot about many different things.It also has Jesus Christ advocating people arming themselves in Luke 22;36 Let he that have no sword sell his cloak to buy one".However I treat it as an intresting collection of history,a tribal story,intresting references to space travel,cloning,garbled eye witness reports and heavily censored by mankind.So no wonder it is a best seller..Beliveable...Not to me.

Three things old people could contribute....
Knowledge and skills.... my old dad used to snare rabbtis, he never did teach me how, but now i am trying to learn i wish he was around.

Ok,nothing that cant be learned with practise.Belive it or not the formulas and processes our great grand parents used for everything from paint to explosives are still out there,and can be understood by a ten year old reading ability.All modern society has done was improve and complicate them with more modern processes.So what will an old person tell you to improve this knowledge??

Child care...when your ten women start popping out the next generation of workforce, it will be quite an effort to raise them and an extra pair of hands, or rather an extra lap to sit on is very very useful.

I would think a younger obstreticion and midwife in their 30s might be more help???
You really want to finish them off completly do you??:DI can just see an 80 plus year old woman wanting to look after a dozen schrreching kids..
What is Mom going to be doing??:rolleyes:What are all the other Moms going to be doing?Sorry Corrie and Eastenders and all that other mind numbing rubbish is now so off the TV.[Which you might as well convert into a rabbitt hutch or chicken coop anyway].So that excuse for not child minding is gone.

Continuity of culture...don't want to go all 'lord of the the flies' here. Civilisation is worth the effort, the thing which gives people the hope and reason to go on in the face of the daily drudgery. Generational respect and continuity has been the hall mark of every enduring community group ever.

Lord of the Flies..intresting comparision there actually!! Which will certainly be what your "seed potatoes" will become very quick post the Crunch.As their parents arent exactly looking after them and disiplining them for current modern day "civilised" life.:rolleyes:

Sorry "civilisation" as we know it is generally somthing that will self destruct and better off too.It has ruined the planet,produced world wars,genocide and is a mess.Generational respect is a myth,hasnt everyone said how badly behaved the younger generation than they are these days??Continuity,is going the way of the dinosaurs.

I once saw some Grafitti in NYC and I thought it was actually profound and you ll like it too as it is religious.
Jesus is coming!!! And Boy is he pissed off!!!

I guess i am preparing to survive, but hoping to thrive, even in a post collapse world. Thriving for me will mean more than food on the table, it will mean civility, manners, respect for other human beings young and old, the strong serving the weak, (not serving them up for dinner:D).

Nice if it happens...But how will you enforce this?How will you defend this and most of all keep it together??And sorry I just cant see it being done without massive dieback of both young and old.By the Crunch or natural causes.

Strong and weak in survival situations in the long term is more about mental attitude than physical attributes. Maturer people may have a toughness and grit that others don't.

Indeed,but then they mightnt have the body strength anymore.look I'm not talking here about the hale and hearty 60/80s folks.I'm talking the 90s onwards,those who are already in Gods waiting room or the numberd days nursing home.These are the kind of people I think this will be aliving Hell for them.

Besides which, I am heading into the maturer category myself at this stage.

Aint we all??

Oh an you misinterpret. I am definitely not a feminist chauvinist

.Do you know what this is ?? It signifies a joke or humour.
Thats what it was meant as.

Just the opposite. I simply thing that in a situation where child bearing and rearing became a costly exercise for women again, it would entail the re-emergence of behaviours which favoured the finding and retaining of an industrious self controlled mate;

one who could show by his behaviour that he would be able to provide for you and the children in the long term, not leave you literally holding the baby.

Well now you know one reasons why the Mormons allowed polygamy[sic]
Yeah,possibly ,but I think that is going to be really intresting now with the modern additions of single sex parents,total Feminists[the bald headed,doc Martined, lumberjacked shirted ones] who think and act like men.All these will be intrestingon the post TETOWAKI social dating scene.:)

There is no getting away from it, if you want to build a strong community which will last for a long time, it has to have a healthy set of intergenerational relationships. Check out the current population stats in our declining civilisation to see what happens longterm to cultures that don't nurture their own young.

Tell me somthing I dont know.:rolleyes:BUT those early civilisations be they ancient or modern to a certain extent were brutal to anyone who didnt fit the mould.

Sparta,for example any defects on the newborn,they were flung over a cliff for the carrion birds to feed on.
Their children were brutalised from four years onwards to become such hard soilders that nothing would put fear into them.Up to the point that 300 Spartans held off a Persian army at the pass at Thempoylae.it was a sucidie mission,but they willingly died as did their ruler with them.

The Vikings,it was considerd a sin against the Gods to die of old age..You died in battle,or if that was not possible it was the duty of your eldest son to cleave his father headless with an axe,when he was totally infirm!
The Gauls and Celts had the same for their old cheiftans.They sacrificed them to the Gods.

The 3rd Reich,another modern example,The eugenics and the Lebensborn clinics,and the training of kids at seven years of age to be soilders or little blonde breeders for the Master Race...Yet all became in their times dominant political and military powers.Ancient Rome,started off as well being a hardy brutal civilisation,but when it started having more concern for the idle ones and useless mouths to feed,its decline started immediately.
So Bonnie with all due respects ,your brave new world to survive is going to have to be pretty tough on who will live and die.Not just for the eugenics of the race but because of maybe a lack of food supplies or space or whatever.It will be nice if we can all sit around singing a few bars of Kum ba eh and we are all friends.But the first bunch of raggedy assed brigands that show up are going to take your place to bits!!
Or worse ..Say a winter hits like for 6months,your food supplies are running low...You want to feed everyone obviously,but the supplies wont do it.Do you feed your able bodied men who are your protectors and workers,your women of breeding age?your sickly young who might or might not survive and the aged and infirm who cant do anything??
Your community survives or dies by your word...
Uneasy rests the head that wears the crown!:eek:

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What is YOUR solution??As we havent heard YOUR solution,apart from plenty of strawmen and computor nerd chatter of how this wont work,and paranoid bull**** that all 3letter agencies from the NSA to whoever will be switching on their Kray supercomputor to crack our 24 bit PGP chat!!!

Just use a simple mailing list, as I've already said.

bonniebede

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed one should disagree otherwise it would be a very boring world.
As I said im an atheist,and want nothing to do with religion as I consider it an evil that has brought nothing but death,war and misery to humanity,in the name of "love and peace".So no ..not particulary intrested.

Exactly as I thought you would answer and I didn't want to bore you.

I would think a younger obstreticion and midwife in their 30s might be more help???
You really want to finish them off completly do you??I can just see an 80 plus year old woman wanting to look after a dozen schrreching kids..
What is Mom going to be doing??What are all the other Moms going to be doing?Sorry Corrie and Eastenders and all that other mind numbing rubbish is now so off the TV.[Which you might as well convert into a rabbitt hutch or chicken coop anyway].So that excuse for not child minding is gone.

Exactly what they're going to be doing - raisng chickens, keeping the veg garden etc etc. From experience (I used to mind 56 kidws every dat, all under 4, ) granny is useful.

As their parents arent exactly looking after them and disiplining them for current modern day "civilised" life.:rolleyes:

no argument from me there. Though its not true of all, thankfully.

Sorry "civilisation" as we know it is generally somthing that will self destruct and better off too.

But I don't think we do know civilisation. This culture we are living in is losing all toucvh with what civilisation is. some of the symptoms are consumerism, materialism, decadence, ethical relativism , disrespect of the the young and old... WE are more like technologically savvy barbarians.:)

I once saw some Grafitti in NYC and I thought it was actually profound and you ll like it too as it is religious.
Jesus is coming!!! And Boy is he pissed off!!!

My favourite is that pictue of Holman Hunts of Jesus with a lantern standing outside the door knocking, with the tagline - Jesus is coming back, quick! look busy!.

Nice if it happens...But how will you enforce this?How will you defend this and most of all keep it together??And sorry I just cant see it being done without massive dieback of both young and old.By the Crunch or natural causes.

Don't disagree, a collapse situation becomes a bottleneck through which only a smaller number survive. Prepping is to make sure I have maxed my chances of it being me.

I'm talking the 90s onwards,those who are already in Gods waiting room or the numberd days nursing home.These are the kind of people I think this will be aliving Hell for them.

Guess I was thinking more the haler and heartier types you mentioned. I think people in nursing homes will either be a) rescued by people who love them and who therefore are tied to them pyschologically and emotionally. Keeping Granny going then becomes a positive driver for survival action or b) abandoned, by their paid carers who are looking after them because their own have already abandoned them or they because they have none. After that its three days without water, i'm afraid.

.Do you know what this is ?? It signifies a joke or humour.
Thats what it was meant as.

Yes . Do you? Can't help if the range of icons doesn't include subtle irony, mild sarcasm etc etc. I'm more expressive in person.:D

Well now you know one reasons why the Mormons allowed polygamy[sic]
Yeah,possibly ,but I think that is going to be really intresting now with the modern additions of single sex parents,total Feminists[the bald headed,doc Martined, lumberjacked shirted ones] who think and act like men.All these will be intrestingon the post TETOWAKI social dating scene.:)

Indeed. Lots of ways of thinking and living supported by state intervention will just disappear, i think.

those early civilisations be they ancient or modern to a certain extent were brutal to anyone who didnt fit the mould.

True. But I'm happy to be a member of the religious organisation that scandalised the Romans by picking babies out of dumpsters. (ok i know they didn't have dumpsters as such, but you know what i mean.)

So Bonnie with all due respects ,your brave new world to survive is going to have to be pretty tough on who will live and die.

I'm a prepper.

Not just for the eugenics of the race but because of maybe a lack of food supplies or space or whatever.It will be nice if we can all sit around singing a few bars of Kum ba eh and we are all friends.

First off, I will personally skin and broil anybody who sings kum by ah near me. (see humour:D) (but I am serious)

Eugenics , theres an interesting one. Eugenicists seem to focus on physical fitness as far as I can see, and read. But Humans have not excelled by physical fitness, from an evolutionary point of view. What sets us apart is our ability to think and reason, to communicate, to pass on learnt skills to future generations, especially those skills which run against more basic instincts like using fire instead of avoiding it, on sublimating the sexual instinct to some extent in order to build strong and robust multigenerational family units where all this happens...

Love isn't about niceness. It is tough assed, ready to chew you out, lay down your life stuff. And it is closely allied with hope, which is essential for survival. Witness Victor Frankyls experience in the concentration camps.

Any way getting preachy. Sorry. :P

But the first bunch of raggedy assed brigands that show up are going to take your place to bits!!

Emm, I think you got me mixed up with a pacifist. My take on christianity includes the concept of just war, or in the scenario you outline self defence with extreme prejudice. (:D no not religious prejudice,the other kind, you know...)

Or worse ..Say a winter hits like for 6months,your food supplies are running low...You want to feed everyone obviously,but the supplies wont do it.Do you feed your able bodied men who are your protectors and workers,your women of breeding age?your sickly young who might or might not survive and the aged and infirm who cant do anything??
Your community survives or dies by your word...
Uneasy rests the head that wears the crown!:eek:

Rationing, no problem. Unequal shares based on need, both personal and the communities need to keep more important people going? no problem. Cannibalism, no problem. Not live, you understand, but when they die, let them contribute.
THe 'everybody' in that scenario will be my survival group. I'll be happy to share knowledge with anyone who comes along peacably. but my tin of cut price Tesco own brand sludge is mine. Unless I choose to share it. Which i might. Or might not.:o

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Just use a simple mailing list, as I've already said.

By what method?Email?Post?carrier piegon?

Grizzly 45

bonniebede wrote: »

Exactly as I thought you would answer and I didn't want to bore you.

After having it beating into me long enough,it kind of stuck in me.

Exactly what they're going to be doing - raisng chickens, keeping the veg garden etc etc. From experience (I used to mind 56 kidws every dat, all under 4, ) granny is useful.

no argument from me there. Though its not true of all, thankfully.

But I don't think we do know civilisation. This culture we are living in is losing all toucvh with what civilisation is. some of the symptoms are consumerism, materialism, decadence, ethical relativism , disrespect of the the young and old... WE are more like technologically savvy barbarians.

But that has been civilisation in any format thru the ages! There has never been a "golden age" of mankind .We only look back and think it was a better time.

My favourite is that pictue of Holman Hunts of Jesus with a lantern standing outside the door knocking, with the tagline - Jesus is coming back, quick! look busy!.

Or Jesus is coming! Quick!!Hide the Porn!:D

Guess I was thinking more the haler and heartier types you mentioned. I think people in nursing homes will either be a) rescued by people who love them and who therefore are tied to them pyschologically and emotionally. Keeping Granny going then becomes a positive driver for survival action or b) abandoned, by their paid carers who are looking after them because their own have already abandoned them or they because they have none. After that its three days without water, i'm afraid.

a] If these people were concerned and wanted to look after their parents they wouldnt be in a old folks old home!:(
b]More than likely the scenario that will happen.:(:(

Yes . Do you? Can't help if the range of icons doesn't include subtle irony, mild sarcasm etc etc. I'm more expressive in person.:D

Limited aint it??:pac:

Indeed. Lots of ways of thinking and living supported by state intervention will just disappear, i think.

It will,butI'd say it will be intresting when Mr and Mr Jones show up or Mrs and Mrs Smith and they are managing just fine.

True. But I'm happy to be a member of the religious organisation that scandalised the Romans by picking babies out of dumpsters. (ok i know they didn't have dumpsters as such, but you know what i mean

.)
Nah..They were just upset by your cannibalism of your God!![ Body and blood of Christ.]:D

First off, I will personally skin and broil anybody who sings kum by ah near me. (see humour:D) (but I am serious)

Ditto:D:D

Eugenics , theres an interesting one. Eugenicists seem to focus on physical fitness as far as I can see, and read. But Humans have not excelled by physical fitness, from an evolutionary point of view. What sets us apart is our ability to think and reason, to communicate, to pass on learnt skills to future generations, especially those skills which run against more basic instincts like using fire instead of avoiding it, on sublimating the sexual instinct to some extent in order to build strong and robust multigenerational family units where all this happens...

Love isn't about niceness. It is tough assed, ready to chew you out, lay down your life stuff. And it is closely allied with hope, which is essential for survival. Witness Victor Frankyls experience in the concentration camps.

Any way getting preachy. Sorry. :P

Not at all,and Eugenics is more a type of Junk science,I was using it as an example of how developing societies can be brutal to those that dont fit the master plan.

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

By what method?Email?Post?carrier piegon?

Email, Grizz. Keep it invite only, members of the general public aren't going to know and the authorities aren't going to care.

Grizzly 45

And who does the invites?Who will verify a person as being genuine or not,and accept responsibility if they screw up and are not what they seem?How will people find "the group"if they are not Net connected?
Also,knowing how people are sloppy around computors with information,and not destroying or erasing or disposing of hard drives with info properly on it..Sods law will be that no doubt the entire email system is left on somones hard drive and falls into the wrong hands of somone with ill intent.If it is somwhat encrypted there is at least a chance an oportunist will just forget about it,and whatever govt types if even remotly intrested will take it as just a bunch of nobodies in Ireland prepping.
So seeing as we are not some kind of Aryan white power group,Milita group,radical Islamists,animal lib or staunch militant republicans who are posting long and hard on a public board,[As these groups dont even use the Net to do any serious communication]with more restriction than a bondage studio about what you can and cant discuss about the merits/disadvantages of a communications system.They wont give two figs wether we are encrypted or not at this stage.

Well one thing this arguement has shown to me anyway is..The problems of worldwide survivalism is still the same in Ireland as well.Too many individualists with their own opinions on how things should be done.;):D
So any chance of a formal group or community becoming a reality here is about as slim as anywhere else in the Western World.
There really is no "glue" that can bond a bunch of independant thinkers together.

bonniebede

Do you think it is possible that pre -collapse preppers or survivalists are just weirdo who worry about something which is obviously fine, but post collapse they become the nucleus around which groups coallesce?

Grizzly 45

Possibly,maybe,if ,but.There are too many proabilities and maybes to say this or that will happen post collapse.Think you are better off looking after your own first,then sort out whomever comes down the road.

bonniebede

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Possibly,maybe,if ,but.There are too many proabilities and maybes to say this or that will happen post collapse.Think you are better off looking after your own first,then sort out whomever comes down the road.

Something about your posts tells me i might not like being sorted out by you.:D

Though you might be just the sort of person i would hope to have as defense coordinator.