Changes to NIQ players

conf101

The Limerick Post posted this on Facebook. Haven't seen it anywhere else though. Anyone heard anything?

IRFU make big strides to make Irish teams more Irish. Your thoughts?

One non Irish eligible (NIE) player only in each of the 15 field positions across the provinces of Leinster, Munster and Ulster e.g. one foreign player allowed across all three teams per position.*

For the season 2013/14 and onwards, for any given position involving a contracted NIE player, a province will not be permitted to renew that NIE player contract or bring in a new NIE player into that same position in its squad.

All future provincial injury replacement players must be eligible for selection for Ireland.

All future provincial non Irish eligible player contracts will be position specific.

RuggieBear

Jaysus.

not sure what to think of this yet tbh


http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/25137.php

The Irish Rugby Football Union today announced some refinements to its professional player contract policy to further support the national succession strategy for the Ireland team to come into effect from the 2013/14 season.

The challenge for the IRFU in an increasingly competitive environment is to strike a long term balance between success for the Ireland team, through exposing Irish players at the highest level of the professional club game in the Heineken Cup and RaboDirect PRO12 and the needs of the provincial teams in terms of the recruitment of quality overseas playing talent to complement Irish qualified players.

The Ireland team remains the financial engine that supports each of the four provincial teams and so it is a critical objective for Irish rugby that the Ireland team remains competitive in the long term by being populated by suitably experienced Irish qualified players.

The opportunity to build this experience is primarily through time on the field in top level competitions.

To support this strategy and following an extended period of consultation which took place with the Professional Game Boards of the provincial teams and the national team management the following principles have now been agreed by the Union.

The following principles are designed to deliver at least two suitably experienced Irish players in all 15 field positions for national team selection:

- One non-Irish eligible (NIE) player only in each of the 15 field positions across the provinces of Leinster, Munster and Ulster e.g. one foreign player allowed across all three teams per position.*

- For the 2013/14 season and onwards, for any given position involving a contracted NIE player, a province will not be permitted to renew that NIE player contract or bring in a new NIE player into that same position in its squad.

- All future provincial injury replacement players must be eligible for selection for Ireland.

- All future provincial non-Irish eligible player contracts will be position specific.

* The Connacht professional side is external to this process as it has recently commenced a new programme of structural and performance development agreed with the IRFU.

The desired outcome of the changes to contract policies is that Irish-qualified players who have progressed through the provincial Academy systems will see greater opportunities for professional game-time experience, allowing both the IRFU and provinces to deliver the maximum amount of value for the €2.5million that is invested annually across the four provincial Academies.

The overall objective of the new policies is that there will be a minimum of two Irish-qualified players per position playing in the Heineken Cup and RaboDirect PRO12 as first choice selections.

The refinement in the contract policies will be operated in such a manner as to enable the professional teams to enjoy continuing success at both national and provincial levels.

IRFU Chief Executive Philip Browne said: "The challenges for the IRFU and the provincial teams are to continue to try to be successful at all levels, but balance this by recognising the model under which Irish rugby has produced that success over the last 12 years.

"The provincial teams have contributed hugely to the achievements of the Ireland team, but it is important to remember that the Ireland team is the marquee competitive outlet for the game in Ireland and also the financial mechanism that funds rugby at all levels.

"On this basis, it is essential that the Ireland team is given every opportunity to remain competitive at international level and to do that, it requires Irish-qualified players to gain continuous experience at club and provincial level.

"Equally, non-Irish qualified players have delivered much value and support to the success of the provincial teams and development of Irish players over the last number of years. The intention is that this will continue, but not to the detriment of the progress of Irish-qualified players in key positions.

"The refinements continue to allow the provinces to sign overseas players who will not alone play for the province but critically allow young Irish players to learn from these players and put this knowledge into practice by taking over the position once that player's contract is completed."

He added: "The aspirations for the IRFU are that in any single year, we would want to win the RBS 6 Nations Championship, but also have our provincial teams winning the Heineken Cup and the RaboDirect PRO12.

"The key is finding the balance to allow this to happen, but not disadvantage one over the other and always remembering that a successful Ireland team is the catalyst for success at all levels below that.

"This new strategy is essential to put Irish rugby in the best position to reach that."

vinny chase

The mad scramble to be the team who is allowed to recruit a NIQ tight head starts now!

justsomebloke

Bad idea IMO especially if all 3 teams hope to compete for honours at HC level. Realistically you would need at least 8-9 decent Irish players in each position in the front row which I don't think we have.

It will mean that some players are actually played more due to the lack of a good enough replacement player especially in crunch games and this could lead to keys players being more prone to injury (Cian Healy's Body is going to be fubar'ed)

Fireball07

Can't agree with that...that's flawed.

First of all who decides what position they're in. Look at Nacewa, for example. He's primarily a full-back but plays wing more often for Leinster.


And Botha has been crucial to Munster's success this year, and Du Preez has played a big part...but VDM is a fairly important player for Leinster and Afoa looks like a brilliant signing for Ulster.

And I don't think it's really at the cost of Irish players in those situations. They could severely weaken the Irish provinces in the near future by doing that.

Foxtrol

How are they going to decide which team gets first dibs on a given position?

Also, if players are "position specific" what will happen if they can play a multiple of positions? For example for Leinster if Isa is put down as a winger will he not be allowed to play full back, even if Kearney isn’t available because of a call up for Ireland (similar examples would be a player who can play anywhere across a backrow or a prop that can play both sides)?

decisions

Its a little bit drastic. What happens if for example Isa is the NIQ 15 but for whatever reason (injury or whatnot) he plays a lot of games at 14..? Or will it simply be 3 backs, 2 centers ect...?

"The key is finding the balance to allow this to happen, but not disadvantage one over the other

That is exactly what they are doing.

Benny Cake

Just did a quick list: (feel free to edit as it may not be 100%)

1: Du Preez, Van Der Merwe
2: Strauss
3: Botha, White, Afoa
4: Muller
5: Sykes
6: Wannenburg
7:
8:
9: Piennar
10: Berquist
11: Danielli
12: Mafi
13: Chambers
14: Howlett
15: Naceawa

Shouldn't be too much of a problem if managed correctly. TBH we have far too many NIQ props. It would mean the likes of Hagan moving to Munster, Nagle to Leinster etc... This will benefit Ireland in the long run.

justsomebloke

decisions wrote: »

Its a little bit drastic. What happens if for example Isa is the NIQ 15 but for whatever reason (injury or whatnot) he plays a lot of games at 14..? Or will it simply be 3 backs, 2 centers ect...?

Truthfully I'd say a NIQ player is initially contracted for one position but is also capable of playing in other positions as well. So a player like Isa will become even more valuable as he can play multiple positions. The problem with this is that the provinces will see utility players as better value for money, it's just we then up with jack of all trades and master at none players coming into the sides

profitius

Great!

Theres plenty of players coming through now and it means the provinces need also to step up their development if they're short in some areas.

The national team is weak in some areas still and this will help Ireland improve in those weak areas.

Good to see Connacht being left out of it too.

Fireball07 wrote: »

Can't agree with that...that's flawed.

First of all who decides what position they're in. Look at Nacewa, for example. He's primarily a full-back but plays wing more often for Leinster.

I'd say if he is signed as a fullback he#ll have to remain there.

vinny chase

Benny Cake wrote: »

Just did a quick list: (feel free to edit as it may not be 100%)

1: Du Preez, Van Der Merwe
2: Strauss, Kyriacou
3: Botha, White, Afoa
4: Muller
5: Sykes
6: Wannenburg
7:
8:
9: Piennar
10: Berquist
11: Danielli
12: Mafi
13: Chambers
14: Howlett
15: Naceawa

Shouldn't be too much of a problem if managed correctly. TBH we have far too many NIQ props. It would mean the likes of Hagan moving to Munster, Nagle to Leinster etc... This will benefit Ireland in the long run.

Andy Kyriacou is Irish qualified, think he has represented Ireland A.

Connacht are currently carrying:

Rodney Ah You
Dylan Rogers
Ray Ofisa
George Naoupu
Miah Nikora
Henry Fa'afili
Fetu'u Vainikolo

Couple of other guys I'm not sure about.

Benny Cake

vinny chase wrote: »

Andy Kyriacou is Irish qualified, think he has represented Ireland A.

You're right, he's played twice for the A's.. Cheers

Skid

vinny chase wrote: »

Andy Kyriacou is Irish qualified, think he has represented Ireland A.

Connacht are currently carrying:

Rodney Ah You
Dylan Rogers
Ray Ofisa
George Naoupu
Miah Nikora
Henry Fa'afili
Fetu'u Vainikolo

Couple of other guys I'm not sure about.

Connacht are exempt from this rule.

It looks like every NIQ will only get one contract, which can't be renewed. Even though we only see the best of most players after a few years. It like something designed by England and France to scupper the Irish HEC Provinces.

These seem like mad rules. It's only going to weaken the 3 HEC Provinces and that won't do anything for Ireland in the long run.

shuffol

It'll certainly shake things up thats for sure, if its good for the national side I'd be in favour.
Initially it'll be sure to cause problems but in 10 years time we could be looking back on this as being a big turning point for the success of the national side.

vinny chase

Skid wrote: »

Connacht are exempt from this rule.

It looks like every NIQ will only get one contract, which can't be renewed. Even though we only see the best of most players after a few years. It like something designed by England and France to scupper the Irish HEC Provinces.

These seem like mad rules. It's only going to weaken the 3 HEC Provinces and that won't do anything for Ireland in the long run.

Apologies, I hadn't seen that.

To be honest though, I would have thought this rule ought to apply to Connacht more than the other provinces.

It's one thing Leinster or Munster signing a NIQ or two in a position of real need to help for a HEC challenge, but some of Connacht's NIQ signings are utterly pointless.

Examples; poor players like Fa'afili, Vainikolo, Nikora and many many more down the years. When Connacht are already struggling, it may as well at least be young Irish lads getting the experience while they struggle.

The money being given to guys like George Naoupu would be better invested in continuing to develop talented young players from the province, lads like Eoin Griffin, Tiernan O'Halloran etc.

I accept that if this was to be possible, then some sort of facility for Connacht to take players on a loan from the other provinces would perhaps be necessary, but that looks even less likely with this new rule; since the bigger provinces will now definitely horde all of their young talent.

Benny Cake

On second reading, the following point is the most noteworthy:

- For the 2013/14 season and onwards, for any given position involving a contracted NIE player, a province will not be permitted to renew that NIE player contract or bring in a new NIE player into that same position in its squad.

Depending on the length of the NIQ contracts it will making attracting top class recruits like Howlett & Nacaewa very difficult. Its unlikely that they would move their families across the world for 2/3 years work knowing they couldn't stay any longer.

totallegend

On the face of it, this is grand, it essentially means that each province can have five NIQs which is more or less what we have now and if it forces us to bring through more props instead of relying on the likes of Afoa, Botha etc, then happy days.

But did anyone notice this statement:

For the 2013/14 season and onwards, for any given position involving a contracted NIE player, a province will not be permitted to renew that NIE player contract or bring in a new NIE player into that same position in its squad.

So does that mean that when, e.g. Nacewa's contract is up, he can't be kept on, even if no other Irish side has 'taken' the full-back slot? That sucks, if I've got it right. Or if no-one else needs a foreign scrum-half (as is the case), Ulster would still be forced to dump Pienaar?

phog

It's good news for the current and future crop of academy players as it gives them a great opportunity.

Will the PAG be forcing Irish players to move around the provinces to ensure cover or will the provinces have to agree a list of foreign players that thye'd like to see recruited and the PAG then find the best "home" for them?

Benny Cake

totallegend wrote: »

So does that mean that when, e.g. Nacewa's contract is up, he can't be kept on, even if no other Irish side has 'taken' the full-back slot? That sucks, if I've got it right.

That would be my reading of it.. He definitely couldn't stay with Leinster, we'd make him welcome in Thomond Park though!!

Fireball07

Yeah that's a terrible rule tbh.

I think the whole thing is flawed really...someone is going to suffer as a result. If Munster can't get a TH prop, then they're in trouble. Archer's not good enough, Hayes is 38, Buckley wasn't good enough and is gone anyway.


You can't just make props of an international standard out of nothing.

smurphy29

totallegend wrote: »

On the face of it, this is grand, it essentially means that each province can have five NIQs which is more or less what we have now and if it forces us to bring through more props instead of relying on the likes of Afoa, Botha etc, then happy days.

But did anyone notice this statement:


So does that mean that when, e.g. Nacewa's contract is up, he can't be kept on, even if no other Irish side has 'taken' the full-back slot? That sucks, if I've got it right. Or if no-one else needs a foreign scrum-half (as is the case), Ulster would still be forced to dump Pienaar?

This, to me, is the nub of the issue. It essentially means that NIEs can only be used to keep the shirt warm for the next guy, and once they've done their stint they've to clear off and let the Irish guy have a go. This is the bit I think has gone too far; aside from anything else, there will be no more Contepomis, Isas or Dougies who stay for lengthy spells and go on to become legends. Which saddens me a little.

justsomebloke

totallegend wrote: »

So does that mean that when, e.g. Nacewa's contract is up, he can't be kept on, even if no other Irish side has 'taken' the full-back slot? That sucks, if I've got it right. Or if no-one else needs a foreign scrum-half (as is the case), Ulster would still be forced to dump Pienaar?

That's my interpretation of it aswell, so I'd may see a spate of contracts extended at the end of this season so as to get around this temporarily.

truhfully I think this is a double edged sword, as yes it may get fringe players game time at the pool stages but without NIQ players in key positions as back ups we may find that we aren't getting to as may finals as we have been thus having the core players not getting the experience of the very toughest of games

vinny chase

Incredibly short-sighted approach from the IRFU in my opinion.

The success of the provinces over the last decade is a major reason for the huge amount of youngsters playing the sport today.

Leinster & Munster wouldn't have four Heineken Cups between them without the input of guys like Rocky Elsom, Trevor Halstead, Dougie Howlett, Paul Warwick, Isa Nacewa, Heinke van der Merwe etc etc, and all the other guys who came before them.

Not to mention that people also go to games specifically to see these big name players play. Weakening the overall competitiveness of the Irish provinces will not improve Irish rugby, even if it does effectively force them to play only Irish players.

Benny Cake

These changes will also make the project players all the more valuable. Hopefully Borlaise can prove the doubters wrong and become Heineken Cup standard ASAP.

Junior

justsomebloke wrote: »

That's my interpretation of it aswell, so I'd may see a spate of contracts extended at the end of this season so as to get around this temporarily.

Is it a rule currently that you can only give a NIQ a 1 year Contract ? Hence Warwick off to France ?

Mr.Applepie

Provinces are going to have to be careful when signing their contracts. Isa for instance should be classified as a "back". Oh actually just thought of something - both Isa & Howlett play @ 14. I suppose it's past time Zebo stepped up to the plate :P

I don't think this is going to be a good idea for front row forwards. Leinster are currently getting an awful lot out of their props by rotating and keeping them fresh. Will it be the case now that Healy & Ross get flogged to death because Du Preez & Afoa are playing for Munster/Ulster?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Junior wrote: »

Is it a rule currently that you can only give a NIQ a 1 year Contract ? Hence Warwick off to France ?

NIQ over 30

profitius

vinny chase wrote: »

Incredibly short-sighted approach from the IRFU in my opinion.

The success of the provinces over the last decade is a major reason for the huge amount of youngsters playing the sport today.

Leinster & Munster wouldn't have four Heineken Cups between them without the input of guys like Rocky Elsom, Trevor Halstead, Dougie Howlett, Paul Warwick, Isa Nacewa, Heinke van der Merwe etc etc, and all the other guys who came before them.

Not to mention that people also go to games specifically to see these big name players play. Weakening the overall competitiveness of the Irish provinces will not improve Irish rugby, even if it does effectively force them to play only Irish players.

I think Irish rugby is at a stage now where we're becoming self sufficient. It would be madness IMO to continue having 6 NIQ players per squad. Thats more than a whole team!

The provinces have won 4 of the last 6 HEC's and are getting stronger every year. In 2 years time I'd say there won#t be much difference between the Irish players coming through and the NIQ players. Its also harder to attract the top NIQ players these days. They'd have to compete with the French money.

its_phil

vinny chase wrote: »

I accept that if this was to be possible, then some sort of facility for Connacht to take players on a loan from the other provinces would perhaps be necessary, but that looks even less likely with this new rule; since the bigger provinces will now definitely horde all of their young talent.

:eek: your very right,this won't end well for Connacht despite the exemption. The only thing I'd say is there is a lot of talent coming through the academy now, so that may help. But trying to get any kind of experinced guys from the other 3 provinces will become very very hard

vinny chase

profitius wrote: »

I think Irish rugby is at a stage now where we're becoming self sufficient. It would be madness IMO to continue having 6 NIQ players per squad. Thats more than a whole team!

The provinces have won 4 of the last 6 HEC's and are getting stronger every year. In 2 years time I'd say there won#t be much difference between the Irish players coming through and the NIQ players. Its also harder to attract the top NIQ players these days. They'd have to compete with the French money.

Yeah, but Joe Schmidt's job, first and foremost, is to succeed with Leinster.

That means he wants his best players on the field as much as possible.

It's good for Leinster and for Ireland long term though that he can rotate Healy and Ross, and give them a break by introducing van der Merwe and Nathan White (and hopefully Jamie Hagan in the near future).

If we're forced to lose van der Merwe and White though, and Hagan isn't deemed good enough by Joe, then in big games at crunch time of year, we're going to see Mike Ross playing close to 80 minutes in every game again, much like last season.

It'll also mean, because of the IRFU player management programme, that Leinster and Munster will stop focusing on playing good Irish players for the more routine Rabo games, because they'll want to save them for crunch parts of the season. This could affect the performance of the provinces in the league, and will in all likelihood affect the numbers coming through the turnstiles.

overshoot

1: Du Preez, Van Der Merwe
2:
3: Botha, White, Afoa
4: Muller
5: Sykes
6: Wannenburg
7:
8:
9: Piennar
10: Berquist
11: Danielli
12: Mafi
13: Chambers
14: Howlett
15: Naceawa, Payne
took out strauss, wont he be irish qualified by then? added some competition at fb.
oustide of the props there isnt much problem, but where do they think they will magically appear from? a good quality forwards coach at each province might give it a chance but its not there
dont like how a province cant re-sign either. unless 5 year contracts are going to be handed out, who will come if they are going to move every 2-3 years. most who do come over have families by this stage and wont want to do that

CIARAN_BOYLE

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

I don't think this is going to be a good idea for front row forwards. Leinster are currently getting an awful lot out of their props by rotating and keeping them fresh. Will it be the case now that Healy & Ross get flogged to death because Du Preez & Afoa are playing for Munster/Ulster?

Time for McGarth/Hagan in Leinster to step up I'd say.

I'm sure Nacewa will be categorised as wherever in the back three that leaves him an empty shirt.

There will be a scramble to bring Irish props based abroad back as well I'd say. Not the same caliber but as depth.

If anyone can find a prop with an Irish granny they will become worth their weight in gold.

I'd also expect to see someone (Munster) poaching wilkinson from Connacht.

profitius

vinny chase wrote: »

Yeah, but Joe Schmidt's job, first and foremost, is to succeed with Leinster.

That means he wants his best players on the field as much as possible.

It's good for Leinster and for Ireland long term though that he can rotate Healy and Ross, and give them a break by introducing van der Merwe and Nathan White (and hopefully Jamie Hagan in the near future).

If we're forced to lose van der Merwe and White though, and Hagan isn't deemed good enough by Joe, then in big games at crunch time of year, we're going to see Mike Ross playing close to 80 minutes in every game again, much like last season.

It'll also mean, because of the IRFU player management programme, that Leinster and Munster will stop focusing on playing good Irish players for the more routine Rabo games, because they'll want to save them for crunch parts of the season. This could affect the performance of the provinces in the league, and will in all likelihood affect the numbers coming through the turnstiles.

Leinster have Jack McGrath, Jack O'Connell, Martin Moore, Tadhg Furlong etc Its also 2 more years away. They'll be fine. Munster would be a worry alright but its still 2 years away so theres enough time to find some props.

Benny Cake

vinny chase wrote: »

Yeah, but Joe Schmidt's job, first and foremost, is to succeed with Leinster.

That means he wants his best players on the field as much as possible.

It's good for Leinster and for Ireland long term though that he can rotate Healy and Ross, and give them a break by introducing van der Merwe and Nathan White (and hopefully Jamie Hagan in the near future).

If we're forced to lose van der Merwe and White though, and Hagan isn't deemed good enough by Joe, then in big games at crunch time of year, we're going to see Mike Ross playing close to 80 minutes in every game again, much like last season.

It'll also mean, because of the IRFU player management programme, that Leinster and Munster will stop focusing on playing good Irish players for the more routine Rabo games, because they'll want to save them for crunch parts of the season. This could affect the performance of the provinces in the league, and will in all likelihood affect the numbers coming through the turnstiles.

I agree with you but it is ridiculous that Leinster brought in someone like Steven Sykes when Ian Nagle is twiddling his thumbs in Munster. Likewise, Boss should never have been allowed move to Leinster to be replaced by a NIQ in Piennar. I don't by any stretch agree with all the details of the new rules but I am glad to see some joined-up thinking on the part of the IRFU.

Cpt_Blackbeard

My gripes with this concern renewing a NIE's contract and cover for injured players. I think they are both terrible ideas that will damage the game.

It should be easy to see how the injury cover will negatively affect a club but, not allowing renewal of a contract is the worst of a bunch. Players like Howlett, Nacewa and Botha have given much more to Irish rugby than they will ever take away. You look at a player of Howlett's quality and its obvious to see than his contributions on the pitch are matched only by that of his on the training paddock. Botha too will be responsible for a scrimmaging revival at 2 of our provinces. Ask yourself now, what top professional will be willing to move his whole family to Ireland when he knows he has no long term future here? Not many. We are looking at a proposal which does nothing but, reward the journey man looking for a quick paycheck.

You can be sure that tensions between fans and coaching staff from each will reach a new high as we will begin to see who is the IRFU's favourite and what other two provinces sufferer because of this.

This does little but help the province that can't help itself.

Dodge

Obviously the provinces won't challenge it but there's absolutely no way they can treat an EU citizen dfferently to an Irish one, in any line of work. Wonder will they justify not renewing, say, Danielli's contract because they want to hire an Irishman instead

You may remember in football, UEFA had to abondon their 3 "foreigner" rule to a 3 non EU qualified rule

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I'm sure Nacewa will be categorised as wherever in the back three that leaves him an empty shirt.

It won't matter, his contract can't be renewed anyway (from my reading).

For the 2013/14 season and onwards, for any given position involving a contracted NIE player, a province will not be permitted to renew that NIE player contract or bring in a new NIE player into that same position in its squad.

thomond2006

- One non-Irish eligible (NIE) player only in each of the 15 field positions across the provinces of Leinster, Munster and Ulster e.g. one foreign player allowed across all three teams per position.

Who exactly decides this? Load of bollocks tbh.

IMO the rule should be one player per position per club, i.e. stop two Bok props playing for Munster. The above is too extreme.

From my initial reading, the provinces are going to struggle. Plus, I bet the young back three players in Munster and Leinster learn a lot from training and playing with the likes of Nacewa and Howlett.

ambid

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

My gripes with this concern renewing a NIE's contract and cover for injured players. I think they are both terrible ideas that will damage the game.
...

Agree. This new directive seems irrational.

We will always have NIQ players and I'm sure we all want to see quality rather than journeyman. What quality player will move here without the possibility of long term security? With this ruling I fear we'll see less quality players like Nacewa, Howlett and Muller, and instead we'll see more journeymen like Tuitupou and Newland.

This must harm Irish chances in the Heineken Cup. We've seen in the last two years how all Irish sides have struggled wthout quality tightheads, and Mike Ross is the only Irish tighthead who is at or close to Heineken Cup standard.

profitius

Australia, SA and New Zealand have more teams and lose their best non international players to overseas clubs. They've constantly been the 3 best teams in the world since professionalism has begun with the exceptionof a few seasons. In time I think the IRFU will be proved correct.

One thing I would say about the IRFU is they're not stupid. The decisions they've made in the past has helped Irish teams in the Euro success of recent years. Now its time to concentrate on the national side because after all if we want to be up their with the NZ's of this world positive action needs to be taken.

People who put provinces over country won't be happy but the provinces are controlled by the IRFU and they've done a great job so far in the promotion of rugby in the country. As we saw in Italia 90, look what a successful national team can do for a sport.

Sport101

Don't NIQs usually sign 1 year contracts anyway and then stay cos the craic is mighty? Now they'll just have to spend every second year in Galway if they want to continue having the craic it seems IIRC.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who exactly decides this? Load of bollocks tbh.

IMO the rule should be one player per position per club, i.e. stop two Bok props playing for Munster. The above is too extreme.

From my initial reading, the provinces are going to struggle. Plus, I bet the young back three players in Munster and Leinster learn a lot from training and playing with the likes of Nacewa and Howlett.

Yeah exactly. Imagine this so;
- Munster say, "We want to keep BJ Botha, he's a key member of our team and he's helping <young Munster prop> to develop"
- Leinster say, "No, we want to keep Nathan White, he's second choice behind Mike Ross so he's not keeping an Irish player out of a jersey"

Who's in the right?

lologram

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah exactly. Imagine this so;
- Munster say, "We want to keep BJ Botha, he's a key member of our team and he's helping <young Munster prop> to develop"
- Leinster say, "No, we want to keep Nathan White, he's second choice behind Mike Ross so he's not keeping an Irish player out of a jersey"

Who's in the right?

This way madness lies. I thought the Welsh were bad yesterday for trying to hamstring themselves with their Salary Cap...

irishbucsfan

I like that they are clamping down. Leinster don't NEED VDM or White.

I hate that it means well never see another Jim Williams, Felipe Contepomi or Isa Nacewa.

But I can understand it and hopefully in 5 years well look back on it as a stroke of genius.

Jedwardian

Had this rule was coming into force this season, take this as an example. Ulster have BJ Botha on their books but aren't allowed re-sign him so they bring in the NIQ John Afoa. Munster can't sign Botha because Ulster already have a NIQ tighthead. Munster's options at tighthead are to re-sign Tony Buckley, trust Peter Borlase or Stephen Archer to start or take a flyer on Jamie Hagan. Would that have solved last season's scrum woes? A creaky scrum directly affects the rest of the team so we get 14, primarily Irish players suffering because of the inadequacy of one player. We might see an extra Irish qualified tighthead starting but what benefit is this to Ireland and his province if the player is no use?

I'd much prefer to see coaching structures improved allowing Ireland to develop higher quality players to bringing in an artificial cap on foreign players.

overshoot

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah exactly. Imagine this so;
- Munster say, "We want to keep BJ Botha, he's a key member of our team and he's helping <young Munster prop> to develop"
- Leinster say, "No, we want to keep Nathan White, he's second choice behind Mike Ross so he's not keeping an Irish player out of a jersey"

Who's in the right?

they ulster will pop up with 2/3 front row are already irish so we should get to keep alfoa

Benny Cake

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah exactly. Imagine this so;
- Munster say, "We want to keep BJ Botha, he's a key member of our team and he's helping <young Munster prop> to develop"
- Leinster say, "No, we want to keep Nathan White, he's second choice behind Mike Ross so he's not keeping an Irish player out of a jersey"

Who's in the right?

They say:

"Use Jamie Hagan to back up Mike Ross. If Hagan doesn't work out, Leinster can use the tight-head NIQ spot when Bothas contract expires as Munster will be ineligible"

Hippo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I like that they are clamping down. Leinster don't NEED VDM or White.

Really? Sure about that?

cp

I can only see the good in this to be honest.

First of all I think the talk of an end to the Nacewa's and Howlett's coming to Ireland because of this rule is a misnomer; Those days are over anyway, we simply cannot compete with the money being offered by the big French clubs these days, so we're going to be attracting a lesser kind of NIQ into the future, and/or paying massive sums (from limited resources) to attract those that we do.

Players only ever sign 2-3 year contracts anyways, and there is NEVER any guarantee of a contract extension when they do so. If nothing else, coming to Ireland in the future will mean potentially getting into a shop window for those big French clubs. Is this a situation we really want?

Secondly, this change is a direct response to the Tighthead situation in Ireland at the moment. It's all well saying that there's a lack of quality tightheads coming through at the moment, but what have the provinces been doing to address this? At the moment, we're one injury to Mike Ross away from starting the six nations with Tony Buckley - the only other Irish Qualified tighthead playing first team rugby at the moment. There may be some short term pain to this, but its in the long term good of the game here, as others have pointed out this is the situation NZ and Australia (who have similar playing resources to us) have always been in, and they've turned out all-right.

In any event, the 3 provinces have 2-3 years to deal with this.

Benny Cake

Looks to me like the IRFU will need to appoint a "Director of Rugby". Someone with overall responsibility for rugby in Ireland, to whom the provincial coaches are answerable.. Anybody have Conor O'Sheas number?

Riskymove

this is what it comes down to lads

The overall objective of the new policies is that there will be a minimum of two Irish-qualified players per position playing in the Heineken Cup and RaboDirect PRO12 as first choice selections.

its about the irish team and getting an experienced squad

If any of you have not yet realised that the Provinces are not stand along clubs that can make their own automonous decisions, this should finally make it clear

Its one of the cons of the setup but there are obvious pros too

Joe Schmidt and others would be well aware of the realities when taking a job