Syria's Torture Machine

BlaasForRafa

I'm kind of disappointed that this hasn't been brought up the the usual crusaders for human rights in the middle east on this board, (perhaps they were too busy looking for more instances of christmas trees being taken down in Israel) but I figured as it hadn't been referred to that someone should post it.

Last night Channel 4 broadcast a documentary called Syria's Torture Machine which demonstrated in excruciating detail what has been going on in Syria. Not only have thousands died but an estimated 30-50000 people have been detained and tortured. Its a massive ongoing repression of protest by Syria's so-called elite security force and army units loyal to Bashar al-Assad. It was pretty grim viewing and its available online and viewable from Ireland on 4OD http://www.channel4.com/programmes/syrias-torture-machine/4od

If the revolt amongst Syrian conscripts continues to gain pace then what is a protest for human rights will develop into a full scale civil war and the United Nations and Arab League will have to stop sitting on their hands and take action.

So, what should happen next?

RichieC

cheers, I'll check it out later to spite the smug tone.

Cork boy 55

I seen it itwas last night at 11:00 , heavy disturbing stuff like something out the dark ages
still less depressing than watching Vincent Browne


Torture appears to be rountine and systemic and on an industrial scale
The main purpose appears to be to intimdate and break the general population rather than get information from specific individuals
The doers appear to be filming themselves in mass thus incrimating themselves.
The filming is serving two purposes
One spreads the intimidation
two ties the doers with Assad in a death pact
The doers are in their thousands are now tied to Assads fate i.e.
of he goes down they go down.
This does not bear well for an "easy victory" or orderly transitation to something resembling a democray.
It's not just a matter now of assad flying to Iran and peace breaking out
A lot of blood has been spilled in a brutal and public manner

I fear the Syria situation will evolve like Alergia in the 1990s
An insurgency in which the islamists may well rise to the fore.
and both sides following each other in a downward spiral of human rights abuses this could go on for years.
Syria is passing a new law that gives the death penalty for owning arms

BlaasForRafa

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

I seen it heavy disturbing stuff like something out the dark ages
still less depressing than watching Vincent Browne


Torture appears to be rountine and systemic and on an industrial scale
The main purpose appears to be to intimdate and break the general population rather than get information from specific individuals
The doers appear to be filming themselves in mass thus incrimating themselves.
The filming is serving two purposes
One spreads the intimidation
two ties the doers with Assad in a death pact
The doers are in their thousands are now tied to Assads fate i.e.
of he goes down they go down.
This does not bear well for an "easy victory" or orderly transitation to something resembling a democray.
It's not just a matter now of assad flying to Iran and peace breaking out
A lot of blood has been spilled in a brutal and public manner

I fear the Syria situation will evolve like Alergia in the 1990s
An insurgency in which the islamists may well rise to the fore.
and both sides following each other in a downward spiral of human rights abuses this could go on for years.
Syria is passing a new law that gives the death penalty for owning arms

I agree with you in that the procurement of information is entirely incidental to the abuse being meted out.

Also the fact that the perpetrators are largely from Assads Alawite sect bodes ill for the future, if they lose power there could be a large wave of revenge carried out by the majority Sunni population.

ILikeBananas

I've noticed a common theme in all of the Arab protests were that the regime wrote the protester's off as "being influence by outside forces.". More recently this same tactic was used by both Vladimir Putin and the Egyptian army generals. The subtext appears to be "Well they couldn't possibly be influenced purely by our mismanagement of the country since we're perfect".

I think Syria is going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better

RichieC

ILikeBananas wrote: »

I've noticed a common theme in all of the Arab protests were that the regime wrote the protester's off as "being influence by outside forces.". More recently this same tactic was used by both Vladimir Putin and the Egyptian army generals. The subtext appears to be "Well they couldn't possibly be influenced purely by our mismanagement of the country since we're perfect".

I think Syria is going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better

there's good solid historic reasons to suspect CIA aggitations whether right or wrong about it.

hmmm

Tumbleweed blows through the thread because it's not about Israel. It's funny that.

Why aren't the Irish people involved in the flotilla to Gaza organising a road trip to Homs?

Molloys Clondalkin

then they would have to bite the hand that feeds them.
or maybe its pot calling kettle black Im sure theres a saying there somewhere.

Of course no anti Israel person wants to see Israels greatest enemy looking worse then how they portray Israel its just bad propoganda.

woodoo

I just watched it there. Grim viewing. That regime needs to be brought down fast.

V_Moth

hmmm wrote: »

Tumbleweed blows through the thread because it's not about Israel. It's funny that.

Why aren't the Irish people involved in the flotilla to Gaza organising a road trip to Homs?

As you may have gathered from watching the documentary, the security situation in Syria is a little, well, unstable. Also, having a large convoy of "westerners" dropping off supplies to the anti-Assad groups would not help them one bit (see Libya).

ILikeBananas

The reason why there is not the same level of debate over this issue in the same way that there would be over Israel-related topics is quite simple. For debate you need conflict. With Syria there is no conflict. There is a general consensus in the western world that the Syrian regime is in the wrong.

With Israel there is no consensus and hence you get all the heated arguments.

Go to the Irish Economy sub-forum and start a thread on the greed of property developers during the Celtic Tiger era. Then start a thread on wage cuts in the public sector vs the private sector. I think we all know which one will fizzle out after a few posts and which one will bang on for pages and pages with the same old arguments.

Jonny7

I've heard/read more outrage about a couple of police pepper-spraying some crusties in another country than I have about the mass state torture and massacre going on in Syria.

I still have faith in the Russians to come down a little harder, but they've been taking steps in that direction. The Arab League is weak as hell, but they obviously have some sway. It all just adds to the international pressure - but so far dictators have shown they are pretty impervious to just "pressure" alone.

woodoo

The professional torturers (if you can call them that) seem to really get a taste for the blood and misery. They seemed to be enjoying it. That is very sad.

Gnasher1970

Jonny7 wrote: »

I've heard/read more outrage about a couple of police pepper-spraying some crusties in another country than I have about the mass state torture and massacre going on in Syria.

I still have faith in the Russians to come down a little harder, but they've been taking steps in that direction. The Arab League is weak as hell, but they obviously have some sway. It all just adds to the international pressure - but so far dictators have shown they are pretty impervious to just "pressure" alone.

That is, literally, the exact point. The message has gone into popular culture that torture is a VERY BAD THING. So if far-right organisations within Syria want to ever gain a mainstream foothold, they need to find a way of getting their message across without being identified as bandits. Islam, with it's broad racial mix of adherents, gives them this opportunity. Jettison the talk about perfidious Jews who run everything and target instead a religion. It's not racist to hate Muslims, the message goes, because Islam isn't a race. Nick Griffin et al have been completely upfront about this as a policy.

Nodin

hmmm wrote: »

Tumbleweed blows through the thread because it's not about Israel. It's funny that.

............

There was an extensive thread on Syria already.

The state and named figures in the administration are all under sanctions.

Nobody here supports the regime.

What, precisely, do you want people to come out with?

twinQuins

Your concern rings a little hollow when it's clear your purpose is to get a rise out of certain posters.

Well done on stooping to the level you accuse others of maintaining.

RichieC

had israel even been mentioned beyond the OPs barb?

twinQuins

Posts 7 and 8. And I'm not willing to discount the OP's history on this subject - you browse forums long enough you pick up on who believes what.

Layforce

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I'm kind of disappointed that this hasn't been brought up the the usual crusaders for human rights in the middle east on this board, (perhaps they were too busy looking for more instances of christmas trees being taken down in Israel) but I figured as it hadn't been referred to that someone should post it.

Last night Channel 4 broadcast a documentary called Syria's Torture Machine which demonstrated in excruciating detail what has been going on in Syria. Not only have thousands died but an estimated 30-50000 people have been detained and tortured. Its a massive ongoing repression of protest by Syria's so-called elite security force and army units loyal to Bashar al-Assad. It was pretty grim viewing and its available online and viewable from Ireland on 4OD http://www.channel4.com/programmes/syrias-torture-machine/4od

If the revolt amongst Syrian conscripts continues to gain pace then what is a protest for human rights will develop into a full scale civil war and the United Nations and Arab League will have to stop sitting on their hands and take action.

So, what should happen next?

The one thing that gets the Irish going, is Jews. The same as the European left wing.

You'll note that 'stop the war coalition' and the usual band of followers have not made a peep about Syria and have not gone out on the march. Contrast that with any time Israel has taken military action in reaction to terrorist attacks, and these left wing roaches and their Islamic bedfellows come crawling out from under every rock.

Interesting that one commentator on here from the Irish perspective said Irish flotillas wouldn't set sail for Syria because it wasn't safe.

So despite the Irish/left wing/Muslim campaign to paint the Israelis as monstrous demons who mow down random Arabs for fun - we have the confession that actually, it's safe to 'play' games with the Israeli military whilst the Irish concede that the same 'game' with Syrian troops would be a bit too dangerous.

Much better to pretend to be humanitarians against the Israelis whilst getting some easy media attention.

Just as we all suspected, the Irish like their European left wing counterparts are hypocritical, Jew-obsessed cowards.

The Arab spring has exposed many things - but the one thing it has exposed the most which the media has ignored, is the insidious, hypocritical left wing and the Irish.

Let me know when the Irish have street performances dressed up as Syrian troops acting like Nazis - as they did with the IDF.

What a sick, morally bankrupt country Ireland is.

AlekSmart

woodoo wrote: »

I just watched it there. Grim viewing. That regime needs to be brought down fast.

Perhaps not quite as easy as it sounds.

The current Syrian regime is'nt some Johnny-come-lately outfit,simply trying out it's stuff.

This is a deeply embedded resourceful,powerful entity in a substantial country.

However,as other posters mention,there is an odd lack of vibrancy from entities such as The U.N,the Arab League and others,who were only too enthusiastic to get on board the "Overthrow Gadaffi" train in Libya.

The sheer scale of oppression imposed upon Syria and its peoples by the Al Assad family over 40+ years makes Gadaffi's Libya seem a shining beacon of free association...yet none of the guardians of democracy,so intent on encouraging regime change amongst Libyans,have offered much in the way of assistance to Syrians...why should this be ?

jank

Was wondering the same the other day. Why there wasn't threads about Syria when the situation there is so dire. As most people will know here I am anything but a fan of Israeli foreign policy but standards have to be alike for all countries. Why aren't they Free Palestine crowd protesting about this? I suppose RBB sets the standard what is an applicable cause?

sink

Layforce wrote: »

The one thing that gets the Irish going, is Jews. The same as the European left wing.

You'll note that 'stop the war coalition' and the usual band of followers have not made a peep about Syria and have not gone out on the march. Contrast that with any time Israel has taken military action in reaction to terrorist attacks, and these left wing roaches and their Islamic bedfellows come crawling out from under every rock.

Interesting that one commentator on here from the Irish perspective said Irish flotillas wouldn't set sail for Syria because it wasn't safe.

So despite the Irish/left wing/Muslim campaign to paint the Israelis as monstrous demons who mow down random Arabs for fun - we have the confession that actually, it's safe to 'play' games with the Israeli military whilst the Irish concede that the same 'game' with Syrian troops would be a bit too dangerous.

Much better to pretend to be humanitarians against the Israelis whilst getting some easy media attention.

Just as we all suspected, the Irish like their European left wing counterparts are hypocritical, Jew-obsessed cowards.

The Arab spring has exposed many things - but the one thing it has exposed the most which the media has ignored, is the insidious, hypocritical left wing and the Irish.

Let me know when the Irish have street performances dressed up as Syrian troops acting like Nazis - as they did with the IDF.

What a sick, morally bankrupt country Ireland is.

I think it has more to do with the fact that western governments have already condemned the Syrian regime, sanctioned them and diplomatically isolated them. Unless they're calling for bombs to fall there is not much point protesting, as what can be done is already.

The difference with Israel is that they would like the same action to be taken but western governments continue to support Israel.

Dudess

Wow, using the plight of Syrians to push an Israel defending agenda - how cynical is that.
Oh the IDF has done a lot worse than take down Christmas trees.

And it's not anti Israeli or being sucked in by propaganda to note that. Propaganda is lies after all.

Pathetic.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Was wondering the same the other day. Why there wasn't threads about Syria when the situation there is so dire..............

Did you look?

Would you care to take the part of a pro-Assad loyalist to keep said threads going? The rest of us will pretend there are no sanctions on the regime, just to make it more lively.

(O, and that Syria are in the Eurovision song contest.)

Dudess

Layforce wrote: »

The one thing that gets the Irish going, is Jews.

Oh really? Do expand. As an Irish person who knows a lot of Irish people, Jews come up in conversation... pretty much never. In terms of the atrocities of the Israeli state, the fact that those people are Jewish is moot - despite the longing that you and others who bafflingly defend Israel have to prove it's anti-semitism.

You'll note that 'stop the war coalition' and the usual band of followers have not made a peep about Syria and have not gone out on the march. Contrast that with any time Israel has taken military action in reaction to terrorist attacks, and these left wing roaches and their Islamic bedfellows come crawling out from under every rock.

Israel's DISPROPORTIONATE military action - 10 dead Israelis justifies 300 dead Palestinians kinda thing. Oh noez, left-wing people and muslims dislike this - how could they?! Why an issue with the left wing btw? It's generally not left-wing people who are anti-Semitic for instance.

Much better to pretend to be humanitarians against the Israelis whilst getting some easy media attention.

What are you babbling about?

Just as we all suspected, the Irish like their European left wing counterparts are hypocritical, Jew-obsessed cowards.

Who's "we all"? Do perhaps post when you know what you're talking about instead of unsubstantiated babble.
[/Quote]What a sick, morally bankrupt country Ireland is.[/Quote]
"I don't like racism so I'll use racism to express my disapproval". What nationality are you? You have a notion in your head about a number of Irish people so Ireland is a sick, morally bankrupt country? Gloriously pitiful. How come every Israel apologist here is a bigot? I'll tell you who's sick and morally bankrupt - the IDF. Lol at your thanker - even though you're Irish, Molloys, you agree with that anti Irish tripe. Deliciously simpering.

whatstherush

Dudess wrote: »

Oh really? Do expand. As an Irish person who knows a lot of Irish people, Jews come up in conversation... pretty much never. In terms of the atrocities of the Israeli state, the fact that those people are Jewish is moot - despite the longing that you and others who bafflingly defend Israel have to prove it's anti-semitism.

Israel's DISPROPORTIONATE military action - 10 dead Israelis justifies 300 dead Palestinians kinda thing. Oh noez, left-wing people and muslims dislike this - how could they?! Why an issue with the left wing btw? It's generally not left-wing people who are anti-Semitic for instance.

What are you babbling about?

Who's "we all"? Do perhaps post when you know what you're talking about instead of unsubstantiated babble.

I wouldn't waste your time Dudess, just a rereg of this guy
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056453488

c_man

Dudess wrote: »

Wow, using the plight of Syrians to push an Israel defending agenda - how cynical is that.

I fully subscribe to ILikeBananas post about why there's f all discussion on it here but it is worth noting that there'll be no protests against Syria up town (Galway for me). There's a weekly stand against Israeli actions though. I don't think it's cynical to ask why that is, and why there does appear to be a 'double standard'.

It's tragic to see the repression in Syria. Thanks for the link OP. And I think a few posters should bear in mind that Israel does not want to see the emerge of democracy in the region, they'd love nothing more than Assad to crush the protesters.

Dudess

Ah yes, teen NF supporter who claims to support Jews because Muslims are the latest enemy so it's ok to be tolerant to a group once reviled by the far right.
You can certainly count on the far right for idiocy and inconsistency.

Pity some self loathing Irish rush to grovel to them though...

Layforce

Funny how Dudess accuses others of using this topic to support Israel, when he/she/it is using this thread to demonise Israel.

Smacks of desperation. "Hey guys...yeah yeah Syria etc...but don't forget Israel!!!!"

Absolutely paranoid that the attention would be taken off of Israel.

It is perfectly legitimate for someone to point out that one country comes in for over-the-top, hyperbolic condemnation - whilst the neighbours killing their own citizens in the most gruesome ways imaginable, are barely troubled by condemnation from self-styled humanitarians.

If the Irish and the left wing roaches want to sell their hatred of Israel on humanitarian grounds and not the racist grounds we all know lie behind their sick ideology - then they open themselves up to questions of double standards when they refuse to act in other conflicts.

Any calls for boycotts of Syrian products? nope, didn't think so.

Oh, whilst we're talking of boycotts - you'll need to add Android phones and the iPhone to your lists. Both now carry Israeli technology.

Apple will be opening their first ever oversees R&D centre in Israel. Following Intel and Microsoft.

Good luck with those boycotts :Dgl

Bottle_of_Smoke

Show's you the nato led assault on Libya "to protect civillians" was bullsh*t of the highest order. Wanted Gaddafi gone and used a few protests and from Islamic extremists as an excuse.

Therefore I really have no clue what to think about what's going on in Syria. Its seems it might be a bit more than civil protesters being attacked. I've seen some sources say they're heavily armed whereas others making out they're just ordinary protesters.

humanji

Layforce wrote: »

Funny how Dudess accuses others of using this topic to support Israel, when he/she/it is using this thread to demonise Israel.

Smacks of desperation. "Hey guys...yeah yeah Syria etc...but don't forget Israel!!!!"

Absolutely paranoid that the attention would be taken off of Israel.

It is perfectly legitimate for someone to point out that one country comes in for over-the-top, hyperbolic condemnation - whilst the neighbours killing their own citizens in the most gruesome ways imaginable, are barely troubled by condemnation from self-styled humanitarians.

If the Irish and the left wing roaches want to sell their hatred of Israel on humanitarian grounds and not the racist grounds we all know lie behind their sick ideology - then they open themselves up to questions of double standards when they refuse to act in other conflicts.

Any calls for boycotts of Syrian products? nope, didn't think so.

Oh, whilst we're talking of boycotts - you'll need to add Android phones and the iPhone to your lists. Both now carry Israeli technology.

Apple will be opening their first ever oversees R&D centre in Israel. Following Intel and Microsoft.

Good luck with those boycotts :Dgl

And the nazis invented jet engines, so if you ever use a plane, you're supporting the Holocaust. You monster. :rolleyes:

And what Syrian products are there to boycott?

The simple fact of the matter, the topic was created as a swipe at people who condemn Israeli government policy. And you're the one bringing religion into it, to blur the topic even more. Seriously, getover yourself. Using the torture and murder of thousands of Syrians to further your own agenda is fairly sick.