Shops shockingly empty

pog it

Am just after being through Dublin city centre and despite the news reports about sales being down, etc. I still can't get over how few people were around. Prices are still high for some things, even books, and it's actually tough to find a bargain, even now, but even at that I would have expected more people to be out there getting last minute presents.. It was practically like any normal week out there, everyone browsing, no queues, etc.

juan.kerr

I did almost all of my shopping on Amazon.co.uk. Almost the only thing I bought here was a Gift Card from a particular store. Selection much better online (even in a single site) and with out even trying I saved at least 25% on everything.

For example: Lego Train EUR165 in shops here, paid EUR120.

I'm sure I'm not the only one.

MrStuffins

Was in a well known store yesterday with the missus and the lady working there was saying that they've had to push their January sales back BEFORE CHRISTMAS just to get people in the door!

It's mental!

fat__tony

Lets all hail the 2% VAT increase...


Protecting jobs. :rolleyes:

Noonan, you utter muppet.

Tristram

Liffey Valley was packed today.

McDave

People have been very slow coming into town. Last Saturday was the first time it felt like real shopping was getting under way.

After the January sales, it seems there's going to be a raft of shops closing. There's no meaningful way to close the gap between tight wallets and high commercial rents. Businesses stuck with upward only clauses should give serious thought to just getting out of Ireland. We're going to need carnage in retail before landlords get the message. And even if they do, all they'll be doing is giving businesses the chance to stay in the game a while longer.

The days of the big spenders are never coming back. The sooner we get used to it - and adapt - the better.

McDave

fat__tony wrote: »

Lets all hail the 2% VAT increase...


Protecting jobs. :rolleyes:

Noonan, you utter muppet.

I honestly doubt people were going to spend much anyway. Our tanked economy is a bigger problem than VAT rates.

hmmm

There have been massive deliveries of Amazon parcels into my workplace. Massive. I think there's a real problem now for Irish retailers who simply cannot compete and there isn't an easy fix - it's not just VAT, it's also issues of product cost to the retailer, rates, lack of parking, traffic jams, clampers, the weather.....

pog it

I agree, but are retailers really doing enough? And shouldn't they be fighting this upward only clause a bit more? You don't hear them protesting about it through their unions even.

A book I am buying for my dad might end up costing me €18. I'm going to wait until Thursday/Friday to see if it comes down in the meantime and I'll check one or two other bookstores also as well as the one I was in today, because it just seems a rip off price for it. Faced with that people have no choice but to move online or just not get things.

Funny enough I bought an electrical thingy today in a music store and saved on it as the best price online matched the price the shop was charging for it, minus the postage and packaging.

McDave

hmmm wrote: »

There have been massive deliveries of Amazon parcels into my workplace. Massive. I think there's a real problem now for Irish retailers who simply cannot compete and there isn't an easy fix - it's not just VAT, it's also issues of product cost to the retailer, rates, lack of parking, traffic jams, clampers, the weather.....

I'd believe it.

Yesterday I unsuccessfully tried a few times to get onto the internet. My wifi got up and running, but pages were just frozen. I'll bet there was a huge surge in last minute online shopping.

hmmm

pog it wrote: »

I agree, but are retailers really doing enough?

They also have very poor web presences. Where is the online shopping malls full of Irish retailers that don't look like something designed in the late 90s? A few are trying to catch up with the web by interacting on places like boards, but most Irish retailers haven't copped that the web needs to become their main storefront and is more than simply a place to put their opening hours and contact details.

Take a look at the BT website and try to buy anything. I have no idea what the "mens" section is about.

Dunnes Stores. Good, a turkey, try and buy one. No, not happening.

Clery's. Pretty site. Nowhere near enough information for me to make a decision. Where are the product reviews, and the customer interaction? Off to Amazon I go to find out more about the products.

DID electrical. A long list of products with important customer details such as "Neodymium is the best material for producing a strong magnetic field for greater sensitivity in a voice coil". I'd better go to Amazon and have it explained to me by a Mr A Lewis from Eversham why I should really care.

123balltv

Went shopping today expecting the shops to be packed I was shocked :eek: no queues etc normally I hate packed shops but without the mayhem it didn't really feel like Christmas.
Staff must be nervous for they're jobs after Chrismas

juan.kerr

hmmm wrote: »

They also have very poor web presences. Where is the online shopping malls full of Irish retailers that don't look like something designed in the late 90s?

Like this? http://www.powercity.ie

hmmm

juan.kerr wrote: »

Like this? http://www.powercity.ie

I was just saying to the wife recently that I've love an ould KDL40BX420BU for Christmas.

woodoo

I bought most of my stuff on amazon too this year.

I went to go around a few shops today but i forgot to take change for the parking metre. I only realised when i i got into town and i just went home.

DublinWriter

pog it wrote: »

Am just after being through Dublin city centre

At Xmas peeps are generally buying big-ticket bulky items.

The last thing you're going to do is go into the City Centre for such items AND pay through the nose for parking.

Blanch, Liffey Valley and Dundrum have been insane the last few weeks.

mikom

Well when I read bollox like this masquerading as fact I have little sympathy for the retailers......

18/12/2011 - 10:34:24
Shoppers after branded merchandise are being warned that time is running out to get their hands on the goods they're looking for ahead of Christmas.

Today's expected to be a busy shopping day across the country and retailers will be hoping for a surge in sales - which have been up and down this month.

"If you're looking for brands - shop early and shop soon, a lot of product is running out," said chief executive of Retail Excellence Ireland, David Fitzsimons.

"I tried myself to buy an iPhone4 today and unfortunately I couldn't

"Brands are going quickly, but in fashion there's exceptional value, because of the mild winter we've had to date."

Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/shoppers-warned-to-buy-before-branded-merchandise-sells-out-532650.html#ixzz1h11Ff3R7

ScouseMouse

DublinWriter wrote: »

Blanch, Liffey Valley and Dundrum have been insane the last few weeks.

Sorry, but I have to disagree, well about liffey valley anyway.

I was there with the wife and she commented how hard it was to get parking and how large the crowds were. I told her to count the bags and the queues at the tills.

There were VERY few.

There is a lot of window shopping and browsing going on, but thats it.

The same with The Square on saturday.

Try it yourself.

eigrod

I was in HMV on Henry St. at lunchtime today and you could barely move in there. The queue for the till was half way down the shop.

pog it

I really don't see where the bargains are in fashion that he's talking about?
Retailers from what I've seen haven't tried hard enough.

I was in Boyers looking around for a jumper for my uncle. Same jumpers in there for the past 4 years at least, and that is not an exaggeration. They've got the same old fashioned light cotton/wool jumpers there in the same colours. I actually said it to the sales assistant guy who was folding stuff and he didn't seem to get it at all. And there was nobody in there, after 6pm this evening. Bizarre.

Did anyone find any good reductions in clothing in any of the shops for men? Young and old? Jack and Jones have some cheap and okay t-shirts but when you go further into the store it's still too high of prices for what you get.

snubbleste

Shops with lower pricepoints like Penneys are doing a roaring trade from all their paper bags I see around.

anbrutog

juan.kerr wrote: »

Like this? http://www.powercity.ie

Not only is their website dodgy but should you wish to talk to someone in a particular store you're greeted with a 'call back service' whereby they ring you back ( if your lucky ) at a time of their choosing.

Meanwhile , I've gone to Currys/DID and got what I wanted.

Great way to run a business lads , make things as difficult as possible for your customer.

Manach

One positive aspect that some local bricks and mottar shops have is customer service. For instance in book stores, you'd have the staff who'd know you for years and can suggest new choices. This personal aspect will allow these premises to survive.

Boskowski

Well, what would you expect?

Went to Shaws on Sunday, just a bit of browsing while the women were having a chatter at the bar. (mad isn't it, should be the other way around...anyway)

I'm seeing a pair of Levys corduroys that looked alright. Nothing fancy now, normal jeans cut. Maybe they were the 'latest range' or whatever, but please.... €109?!? Gimme a break.

I don't know what it is, don't they want to come down with prices or is it that they simply can't with wages, rates whatever?

That way it's certainly not going to end well for the retailers here.

SeaFields

Have worked in retail for a long time now - a few different types of retail.

This Christmas has be the least stressful of the last several years. I was working last Sunday for the whole day. I work in a pharmacy but we do have a small gift section and are just off a main street. Sunday we were dead! I was watching the clock for the last two hours. People normally avoid city centre pharmacies at the weekend close to Christmas for prescriptions - the last thing you need if you are sick or have a sick child with you is a Christmas shopping environment - so it would be Christmas gifts / cough and colds / hangovers that keep us busy.

The last few years the retail environment was blessed. Retail managers at all levels didn't have show any real ability in their positions, and they would still make their targets. This was echoed by their superiors and allowed progression up the ladder. The spending boom masked a lot of under performance. Their ability to adapt now to a harsh trading environment is obvious. They cant see the wood for the trees as regards pricing, selection, value for money. Couple this with external factors - as mentioned previously - parking and clamping, rents and rates, weather, etc. and you have a sector under massive pressure. I know a lot is being made of the VAT rate increase but I don't think not increasing the VAT rate would see an improvement in the sector. There's a reason the Aldi and Lidl car parks are full.

And I know, even with how quiet we are in our store, we'll get a few wander into the shop present shopping 5 minutes before closing on Christmas eve!

liammur

pog it wrote: »

Am just after being through Dublin city centre and despite the news reports about sales being down, etc. I still can't get over how few people were around. Prices are still high for some things, even books, and it's actually tough to find a bargain, even now, but even at that I would have expected more people to be out there getting last minute presents.. It was practically like any normal week out there, everyone browsing, no queues, etc.

If you think Dublin is bad, go to Limerick, about half the city is closed down. About 1000 IDA jobs in over 15 years, many thousands lost. Still no action from IDA or the government.

RichardAnd

I've bought alot of musical equipment off online stores this year. Anyone who is into music will know that the irish music stores find it very hard to compete with Thomanns (http://www.thomann.de/ie/index.html) on price, product range and quality. In fact, for certain high end musical instruments, you just have to go online as the stores just don't stock them.

longhalloween

RichardAnd wrote: »

I've bought alot of musical equipment off online stores this year. Anyone who is into music will know that the irish music stores find it very hard to compete with Thomanns (http://www.thomann.de/ie/index.html) on price, product range and quality. In fact, for certain high end musical instruments, you just have to go online as the stores just don't stock them.

I did most of my Christmas shopping online too.

Honestly I don't know how retail is going to survive the next 5 years. Dublin is very quiet this year compared to 2/3 years ago, people are spending a lot less and as a result shops can't risk to lower prices or get a large range of stock.

greenman09

Haven't been in town in weeks all shopping done online. Cheaper convenient and no grumpy sales assistant to deal with

hmmm

Is the online thing a surprise? For years in this country we've paid a paddy tax on all imported goods - this tax was either imposed by the retailer, or more likely the distributor. We are a small country with limited competition.

Suddenly our local retailers have been thrown into a maelstrom of competition against worldwide online retailers. The government is imposing taxes and charges as if shoppers have no choice but to shop locally. Similarly local councils feel they have a captive audience and can simply maintain rate levels. We have very high minimum wage rates, driving up rates across all retail sectors.

I don't see how most retail stores can survive the online onslaught. Hopefully the response is through efficiencies, lower taxes & charges and lower prices, but I worry that the government will try some hamfisted move to put extra charges on online imports.

liammur

longhalloween wrote: »

I did most of my Christmas shopping online too.

Honestly I don't know how retail is going to survive the next 5 years. Dublin is very quiet this year compared to 2/3 years ago, people are spending a lot less and as a result shops can't risk to lower prices or get a large range of stock.

Online shopping is doing huge damage to retail, there's no doubt about that. There's going to be a lot more jobs lost in retail, and as a result cafe shops etc. We'll end up paying it for it one way or another!

Mr Trade In

Most people seem to be window shopping waiting for Sales to start,I have never seen it this slow in games shops, toy shops and even Tesco and Dunnes, no one is buying anything, last year the queue as 45 minutes in Smyths Jervis Street, they were sold out of most consoles and many of the top games, this year everything is still on the shelf.

GhostInTheRuins

You can't blame people for shopping online. My mam's hoover broke last week, so we had a look online to see what we could get to replace it. She found a good one with great reviews on amazon for €130 delivered to the door. We checked the local shops because we'd rather buy it from them if we could. The exact same model in argos and other electrical shops in the town? - €280

colly10

I've walked down Grafton Street twice in the last 2 weeks and both times it was jammed, especially last Saturday.
Every christmas I normally spend a few hundred on clothes. This is the first year all my clothes shopping has been all done online. I went into a shop last Saturday and looking at a hoodie, it would have cost me 80 but I got one from a decent brand online for about 25.
I just can't justify spending money on clothes here anymore, they'll either have to stop taking the piss with the prices or i'll be shopping online

hmmm

Mr Trade In wrote: »

Most people seem to be window shopping waiting for Sales to start

I think it'll be a good sales season this year. I can't quite describe it, but I get a vibe from most people that they are playing Christmas much cuter this year and are waiting for the sales. In the past, people would want to have the big presents wrapped for Christmas day, irrespective of the cost - even during the past few years of cutbacks and tax increases. I think Irish people sometimes have a problem admitting they were not loaded and are anxious to keep up appearances. This year the vibe, from people who have money and those who don't, is "we're going to save money and wait for the sales".

HovaBaby

I had a look in waterstones and I saw a Jose Mourinho book on the shelf. Big, a bit thick and hardcover. I thought "this'd cos a few bob". Had a look at the price and it was €25.

Went onto amazon.co.uk and they had it for £10. That is €11.90 in Euro terms. Crazy!!

Custardpi

HovaBaby wrote: »

I had a look in waterstones and I saw a Jose Mourinho book on the shelf. Big, a bit thick and hardcover. I thought "this'd cos a few bob". Had a look at the price and it was €25.

Went onto amazon.co.uk and they had it for £10. That is €11.90 in Euro terms. Crazy!!

Go onto bookdepository.co.uk & it'll probably be even cheaper, once you figure in Amazon's postal charges.

Tea drinker

pog it wrote: »

Am just after being through Dublin city centre and .

let me stop you there. Why would anyone go shopping in the city centre? The stupid traffic, one way streets, mickey mouse speed limits camera's, crossings and overpriced car parks?
I got boned for parking in jervis street about 5 or 6 years ago and I never went back. Fundrum is packed for weeks as they have better selection and parking is reasonable.

Dublin city centre should be turned into a zoo or theme park with an enormous ring road around it.

Scofflaw

It's interesting - I know larger Irish retailers were interested in the net a decade ago, since I dealt with some of them as clients then. Yet in the intervening decade little seems to have happened. There's an arrogance or complacency there - or perhaps just muddle - that seems to prevent it happening.

Also, I've found that small retailers often resist 'going digital' because they honestly feel that 'the high street' is important - and, to be fair, when you look at the commercial environment online, you'll find that it follows standard network topologies, with a few dominant large sites dwarfing the rest, and the smaller players restricted to tiny niches. The high street can afford two newsagents - you go to whichever is physically closer - but the net doesn't need or really support that.

Looking at the offline retail environment, the shops that will most likely survive are convenience shops - small, quick purchases wanted immediately - and experience shops - those where the experience of the shopping is an important component of the purchase, such as BTs (snob/exclusivity value) or hardware shops.

Actually, hardware shops are both convenience and experience shops - and the latter in both senses. When you need duct tape, a small purchase, you generally need it right now, you'd like to hear an expert opinion on whatever you're about to fix, and going to the hardware shop just by itself feels manly and competent.

The hardware shops also have another factor in their favour for a lot of what they do, but not all - a lot of the stuff in the hardware domain isn't branded, so unless you're an expert, you're not going to be sure what you're getting online. Sure, the big or at least bigger ticket items are branded, so you can buy your Black & Decker online - but within a certain price range, it's still worth stocking them in a physical store because you might realise that the sander or whatever is just the right tool for the job you're contemplating right now.

Brands, in that sense, are absolutely vital for the net retailer - particularly ubiquitous high-recognition brands - because they allow straightforward comparison shopping, where net retailers have the advantage. If you were able to do so, a shop that wants to survive offline should seek to develop its own brands, because those then cannot be obtained online (until and unless the shop itself decides to do so), or to carry a good range of non-branded quality stuff. Retailers like Dunnes are in a relatively good position here, having moved into that space decades ago, and they're unlikely to be destroyed by the net yet. And there's a certain amount of survival value in being conveniently grouped somewhere like a mall.

Anywhere, on the other hand, that you're dealing primarily with branded products which can't easily be replicated by small retailers, and outside the convenience of malls, you're looking at a pretty bleak future, most of which is already marked on the cards. It would be interesting to look at, say, the average age of Power City customers, because I'd bet it's been going up over the last decade. Not, of course, that they'd know.

cordially,
Scofflaw

HovaBaby

Custardpi wrote: »

Go onto bookdepository.co.uk & it'll probably be even cheaper, once you figure in Amazon's postal charges.

I spend over £25 when I do order, so I get free delivery.

ThePower11

Online shopping FTW! No crying babies, no ould wans cutting the ankles off you with their trolley, no queing, no rip-off €2 an hour parking and no surly looking shop staff!

The discounts online are brilliant too!

jetsonx

Visit Dublin City Centre or Dun Laoghaire and be 11 minutes over your parking
time and you will have a big yellow jack boot on your car. €80 instant fine.

No thanks. I don't want the stress of rushing back to a car to meet a deadline when
I can go online and get a selection which is 10 times better at significantly lower prices.

I really think the workers of Dublin City / Dun Laoghaire Councils in their cozy offices don't care. They just want rates money they get from retailers.

Tigger

Manach wrote: »

One positive aspect that some local bricks and mottar shops have is customer service. For instance in book stores, you'd have the staff who'd know you for years and can suggest new choices. This personal aspect will allow these premises to survive.

amazon mails me the books i should download in pdf and then turn into mobi

same thing only cheaper

Dannyboy83

hmmm wrote: »

Is the online thing a surprise? For years in this country we've paid a paddy tax on all imported goods - this tax was either imposed by the retailer, or more likely the distributor. We are a small country with limited competition.

Suddenly our local retailers have been thrown into a maelstrom of competition against worldwide online retailers. The government is imposing taxes and charges as if shoppers have no choice but to shop locally. Similarly local councils feel they have a captive audience and can simply maintain rate levels. We have very high minimum wage rates, driving up rates across all retail sectors.

I don't see how most retail stores can survive the online onslaught. Hopefully the response is through efficiencies, lower taxes & charges and lower prices, but I worry that the government will try some hamfisted move to put extra charges on online imports.

I don't disagree about the paddy tax in some cases.
I wonder how widespread it is in actual fact tho.

I'm just going by 1 example here, but Irish customers who buy sports products from the Irish outlet of one of the large UK Producers, pay a premium of 21% compared to UK customers. (Soon to be 23%)

We used to pay the British rate, then the company had to open an outlet here due to distance selling regulations.
We then had to pay "Paddy prices".
It seems the culprit was not the Protein Producer tho - the culprit is our own government... The UK does not charge vat on food supplements such as Protein Powder, the Irish government do (across the boards as of Jan 1 2012).

Check for yourself:
UK - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/cats/protein/whey-protein
Ireland - http://www.myprotein.com/ie/cats/protein/whey-protein
(It would actually be cheaper to buy from the UK outlet and get it delivered than to buy from the Irish outlet!! )



A caller to Newstalk last week claimed that one of his suppliers are closing in the Republic and relocating to Newry!
I have little doubt that all these business are going to go bankrupt, if they don't leave Ireland. This is the fault of the Irish government.
The really crazy thing, is that Ireland has the potential and the capacity, to be a world leader in innovation of these products and a colossal exporter.

Unfortunately, our government continues to be an obstacle .
Either way, I'm certain that things are going to get worse until we get the rents/rates business under control.

mistermouse

When I worked in retail a few years ago people often came in got our expert opinion on a product and then went elsewhere to buy, often at more expensive prices but seemed to think a multiple or well known name would be better. Quite often many would actually come into me looking to fix their product or show them how to use it.

One major retailer used to send customers up to me to as they didn't know how to use the item themselves.

Nowadays more people have online research capabilities though and the confidence to buy themselves, online.

I'd imagine you will see a rise in customs opening packages from abroad and charging import duties/vat etc.

An interesting one though seeing someone mentioned it. Thomann are a German retail site, they charge Irish VAT to customers in Ireland, ie 21%. Given that they have no physical presence here at all can they do that and if so does the 21% get sent to Ireland. I realise how it works for VAT registered businesses etc but for ordinary consumers I do not see how they are charging Irish VAT rates unless paying it

Scofflaw

mistermouse wrote: »

When I worked in retail a few years ago people often came in got our expert opinion on a product and then went elsewhere to buy, often at more expensive prices but seemed to think a multiple or well known name would be better. Quite often many would actually come into me looking to fix their product or show them how to use it.

One major retailer used to send customers up to me to as they didn't know how to use the item themselves.

Nowadays more people have online research capabilities though and the confidence to buy themselves, online.

I'd imagine you will see a rise in customs opening packages from abroad and charging import duties/vat etc.

An interesting one though seeing someone mentioned it. Thomann are a German retail site, they charge Irish VAT to customers in Ireland, ie 21%. Given that they have no physical presence here at all can they do that and if so does the 21% get sent to Ireland. I realise how it works for VAT registered businesses etc but for ordinary consumers I do not see how they are charging Irish VAT rates unless paying it

Hmm...

What are distance sales?

Distance selling in the EU occurs when a supplier in one EU Member State sells goods to a person in another Member State who is not registered for VAT and the supplier is responsible for the delivery of the goods. It includes mail order sales, phone or tele-sales or physical goods ordered over the internet.

Under the distance selling arrangements, sales to customers in other Member States who are not registered for VAT are liable to VAT in the Member State of the supplier provided that the threshold appropriate to the Member State of the customer is not breached (see Thresholds below). Where sales exceed the threshold in any particular Member State, the supplier must register and account for VAT in that Member State.
Distance sales to the State

Where the value of distance sales to persons in this State by a supplier in another Member State exceeds or is likely to exceed €35,000 in a calendar year, that supplier must register for VAT in this State and must account for VAT at the appropriate Irish rates. If the threshold is not exceeded, the supplier may, nevertheless, opt to register and account for VAT in this State on his or her distance sales.

I suspect you'll find that Thomann are registered for VAT here - that doesn't mean they have to have a physical presence here.

cordially,
Scofflaw

amacachi

Same with Amazon hence the coupla percent increase as one goes through the purchasing process.

RichardAnd

mistermouse wrote: »

An interesting one though seeing someone mentioned it. Thomann are a German retail site, they charge Irish VAT to customers in Ireland, ie 21%. Given that they have no physical presence here at all can they do that and if so does the 21% get sent to Ireland. I realise how it works for VAT registered businesses etc but for ordinary consumers I do not see how they are charging Irish VAT rates unless paying it

Good question, and one I never thought to ask. Thomann are clever about the VAT though as it's applied to their items before the transaction takes place, not something other online stores do. They also don't charge for shipping on items over 250 euro which means that when I see item X for 500 euro, I know just what it will cost me immediately.

On a personal level, I do my best to bu things in Irish music stores when I can. I purchased a new electric bass some months ago from thomann but that was only after I'd searched high and low for the model I wanted. I simply couldn't get it here. How and ever, I do buy from shops in town for essentials like strings and power leads but these aren't big purchases. I would be saddened to see somewhere like music-maker close down though

pog it

Tea drinker wrote: »

let me stop you there. Why would anyone go shopping in the city centre? The stupid traffic, one way streets, mickey mouse speed limits camera's, crossings and overpriced car parks?
I got boned for parking in jervis street about 5 or 6 years ago and I never went back. Fundrum is packed for weeks as they have better selection and parking is reasonable.

Dublin city centre should be turned into a zoo or theme park with an enormous ring road around it.

Well I work and study in the city centre and near surrounds so that's why it was handy for me! As it turned out it was very easy to get around the shops and I didn't have to bring my car in. Not everyone's situation is the same. Dundrum would be a pain in the arse for me to go out to when I'm in the city centre so much.

Medu

fat__tony wrote: »

Lets all hail the 2% VAT increase...


Protecting jobs. :rolleyes:

Noonan, you utter muppet.

Vat has gone up already? Damn I must of slept through Xmas and new year...

femur61

VAT has not gone up yet so you'd imagine if VAT was such an issue with people they would be purchasing before Jan 1. Shops are empty because the people who bought in recent times would have used credit cards,and people who have money who saved during the good times certainly won't spend now.