Aritech CS350 - Alarm triggering with interior lights switching on and off

davkav

Hey guys,

Looking for a bit of help here.

I have an Aritech CS350 in my home. Its been fitted the last 15 years.

We only moved in to the house about 3 months ago so not sure if the problem I am having is an old one for the alarm system.

Basically the alarm panel is on the upstairs lighting circuit.

Sometimes when I turn off some lights down stairs and occasionally at 6.30am when I have the heat set to come on, the alarm triggers.

When it triggers the keypad says that the fault is at the front of the house. All of the lights downstairs are on a separate circuit to the one upstairs and the heating system is on its own circuit.

I was talking to an Alarm fitter there at lunch time (he just happened to be in the electrical wholesalers I called into to get some bits) and he reckons it is probably induced voltage from alarm cables crossing over or running parallel to power cables.

He also mentioned that he has seen a few of these panels (the cs350's) having this problem.

He recommended that I upgrade my panel and keypad to a HKC Securewave and that would more than likely fix the problem. National Electrical Wholesalers are doing the Panel and Keypad for €127 ex VAT.

What do you guys reckon?

altor

It is more than likely a fault with a sensor on the loop. Replacing the panel will more than likely give the same fault if there are faulty sensors on the loop.

davkav

Sorry Altor and thank you for the response.

I should have said the fault that displays is the front of the house but downstairs. The zone that triggers the alarm covers just the front two downstairs windows of the house .

So not on the alarm/upstairs lighting circuit.

altor

This is where the problem is then, more than likely one or both is faulty.

davkav

If one of the sensors is faulty how is the alarm triggering when I switch on/off the lights or the heating?

Could it simply be a bad connection to one of the contacts or shock sensors?

altor

The resistance is the sensor when the light or heating is turned on will cause the alarm to activate. Although alarm cables are not meant to be ran beside power cables in reality they are. Only a test with a multimeter will determine the fault.

davkav

Hmm, cheers Altor.

Ill check all of the sensors on the windows tonight with a multimeter and see if anything shows up. Hopefully this will save me a few bob.

Although I wouldn't mind a new alarm panel that supports wireless and GSM for future expansion. Now would be the ideal time to get it approved by the boss

Actually whilst I have you, can you get PIR Flood lights that support a secondary input to trigger the light say if the alarm triggered.

altor

davkav wrote: »

Hmm, cheers Altor.

Ill check all of the sensors on the windows tonight with a multimeter and see if anything shows up. Hopefully this will save me a few bob.

Although I wouldn't mind a new alarm panel that supports wireless and GSM for future expansion. Now would be the ideal time to get it approved by the boss

Actually whilst I have you, can you get PIR Flood lights that support a secondary input to trigger the light say if the alarm triggered.

Take the resistor out of the loop.
Set the meter on 200 ohms then tap each sensor about 10 times, if inertia/contacts fitted do the same for the contact. The reading should always return to same value. If it stays higher close off that sensor and move to the next one.
The alarm activating can trigger the lights by installing a 12V/240v relay off the external bell to the lights.

davkav

Thanks altor.

Ill give that a shot. When you say close off that sensor, do you mean short it out and check the rest of them?

Also I remember reading that the resistors should be at every sensor. Is this correct?
Mine is currently wired such that there is one resistor in series with the zone loop and located in the alarm panel.

Sorry for all of the questions, id just like to get this alarm sorted before my neighbours go banana's at me and I can sleep soundly knowing my alarm clock, I mean alarm doesn't go off at 6.30am.

altor

By closing off the sensor you are joining the alarm together, so if red and red are used for alarm you disconnect the two red from the sensor and join together.

If there is only 1 sensor on the zone then only one resistor will be used. If there is a number of sensors there will still be the same resistor in the end device, more than likely with the CS350 it will be located in the control panel.

davkav

Hi Altor,

Apologies for not replying to your post before Xmas. It was a bit hectic over the holidays.

I tested the sensors in the zones as you suggested and all of them seem to be working fine.

Do you think it is worth changing the sensors for new ones or swapping the panel for a HKC and get some wireless sensors?

There are only 4 contacts and 2 shock sensors (2 Windows) in the zone in question.

Again sorry for not replying sooner.

KoolKid

There is no point in just second guessing here. You could replace all the sensors and it may be a connection or wiring fault.
Replacing the panel & adding all wireless sensors is a bit drastic.
Try disconnecting the sensors one by one & see if you can narrow it down.

altor

davkav wrote: »

Hi Altor,

Apologies for not replying to your post before Xmas. It was a bit hectic over the holidays.

I tested the sensors in the zones as you suggested and all of them seem to be working fine.

Do you think it is worth changing the sensors for new ones or swapping the panel for a HKC and get some wireless sensors?

There are only 4 contacts and 2 shock sensors (2 Windows) in the zone in question.

Again sorry for not replying sooner.

It might be a problem with the contacts, you can get intermittent problems with sticky contacts. If you can take these out of the loop then add them in one by one to find the faulty one.

davkav

Right finally got the problem sorted. My battery in the panel was low, not low enough to register by the panel but enough to allow a dip in voltage when I was switching lights on or off.

So the battery has been replaced and all seems good.

Thanks altor and KoolKid for the help,
Dave

KoolKid

I wouldn't be100% sure of that.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

I wouldn't be100% sure of that.

Ah don't say that.... it seems fine now. I fitted the battery on Sunday evening and it hasn't triggered since.

altor

davkav wrote: »

Right finally got the problem sorted. My battery in the panel was low, not low enough to register by the panel but enough to allow a dip in voltage when I was switching lights on or off.

So the battery has been replaced and all seems good.

Thanks altor and KoolKid for the help,
Dave

Hopefully that caused the issue you where having, usually turns out to be a faulty sensor on a loop. Thanks for getting back to us.

davkav

Alrighty then......

I had nice uninterrupted sleeps all week. Since Friday my alarm has been going off randomly once armed. Previously it would trigger with the switch of a light or the heat coming on and off but now it can happen at any time. It even triggered when I unplugged my phone charger this morning, sockets aren't even on the same rail as the lights and alarm in the fuse box!!!

So tonight I will remove one of the sensors from the loop and see how I get on. I will wire it back up tomorrow and move on to the next one if the alarm still triggers.

Its getting ridiculous now and I would say the neighbours aren't too impressed.

Yes KoolKid, I know, you told me so

KoolKid

That's one way of sorting it .
Do you have a multi meter ?

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

That's one way of sorting it .
Do you have a multi meter ?

I do.

I have tested the inertia sensors on the windows and they all read 0.5 ohms and return to same when I give them a tap.

KoolKid

Connect the meter to the pair at the panel and check the entire loop.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Connect the meter to the pair at the panel and check the entire loop.

Ill try that this evening. I presume I am looking for it to be at 4.7k?

Also when I was testing the inertia sensors I noticed that only 2 wires are connected to the sensor with no resistors. The resistors are inline in the panel.
Is this the norm? I thought the sensors where meant to have 4 wires to detect the difference between tamper and trigger?

The sensor type in question:


Thanks for the help by the way. Very much appreciated.

KoolKid

Resistors should really be at the end of line.
Disconnect resistors while testing like this.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Resistors should really be at the end of line.
Disconnect resistors while testing like this.

I will test it this evening and report back.

Should the sensors be wired as per the diagram below:

KoolKid

Yes. But if there are 2 cables it would be the 2reds across the contact and the three other colours joined black to black, blue to blue and yellow to yellow.

davkav

Ok so, multimeter reads 9.4 ohms for the loop. Is this normal?

I've read that below 20 ohms is usually the norm. I will now test each sensor and see if the loop returns to the 9.4ohms every time.

KoolKid

Yes that's good. But check each sensor and contract about 10 times each.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Yes that's good. But check each sensor and contract about 10 times each.

Will do.

Just to note, I don't know if its bad or not but the reading is fluctuating slightly between 9.4 and 10.5.

KoolKid

If nothing shows up then close of the sensors one by one and see if it settles down .

davkav

Before I started testing just now, the reading was up at 11.4. The heating has only been turned on in the last 30 mins. I wonder could one of the alarm cables be resting on a heating pipe somewhere and the increase in heat causing the resistance of the cable to change?

First Inertia sensor I test and it doesn't have any effect on the reading on the multimeter.
Ill take it out of the loop now and see does the loop reading stay at a steady value.

zg3409

>There are only 4 contacts and 2 shock sensors (2 Windows) in the zone in question.

I read the thread and I didn't see if you said if it alarms on "intruder shock", "intruder door open" or tamper fault.

Also if it's always the exact same zone try swapping over say zone 4 and zone 5 and see if the problem moves zone. If not then it's a panel fault. Make sure both zones are same type and configured for same sensors etc.

Also to stop annoying neighbours enable short bell timeout, delay on external bell ,set all zones as entry exit etc. It is not a good idea if your alarm is needed for insurance reasons and you are worried about break ins.

The cost of a few contacts is probably worth it. I have swapped sensors from different zones around the house to see if the problem follows the sensor. It can get confusing for intermittant faults so make a note of what was moved where.

You may also be able to decrease sensitivity for shock in the panel (this may mask electrical glitches)

Also check for cable damage and staples through the cable.

There is nothing worse than an intermittant fault. Also consider arming/part arming the alarm while you are in the house (if possible) so you can soak test it more.

You may have a zone soak test option. You may also be able to exclude that zone from arming, not ideal. There may be joins in the cable not near the zone protected (say if the cable goes via the keypad) so check sensors and junction boxes on the way for joins.

davkav

Ok this is very strange. If I open any of the windows or tap the inertia sensors the loop reading does not change.

I double checked the zone in engineering mode and I am definitely checking the correct one.

zg3409

I am not sure on the CS350 but one loop is probably tamper (two of the wires) which stay closed even if the window is opened, and other loop for intruder detection.

Many "Window contacts" do not detect if the window is opened, just if there is vibration, then open for a fraction of a second.

In order to have a window contact every part that opens needs a seperate sensor.

You need to disconnect at the panel end before testing with a multimeter.

davkav

Yes I am disconnected at the panel end. No resistors in line either.

Every window has a contact fitted to it and an one inertia sensor. So for example the sitting room window which has two opening windows has two contacts and one inertia fitted.

I was just going through the engineering menu and checking the configuration of the zones.

Zone 1 the front door is Entry/Exit
Zone 2 - 6 are Alarm

Does anyone have and engineering manual handy?

KoolKid

Sent you the engineer manual.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Sent you the engineer manual.

Thanks KoolKid



This gets better and better. Turns out neither of my panic switches are hooked up. I wonder did the original owner of the house wire the alarm himself...

The panic switch beside the front door has only one wire going to it, the second one is hanging loose in the keypad. And then when I traced those two wires up to the panel they aren't even connected to anything, there wrapped around the mains cable....

davkav

Ok quick question, I know Im getting side tracked to my original faulty zone issue but I may as well fix the panic buttons whilst I am at it.

Can the panic buttons be wired to a zone and that zone set to be a 'Tamper' Zone?
I have set it like this but the alarm does not seem to trigger when I press the panic button?

KoolKid

davkav wrote: »

Can the panic buttons be wired to a zone and that zone set to be a 'Tamper' Zone?
I have set it like this but the alarm does not seem to trigger when I press the panic button?

It can, but its not the right way to do it. Also it will only activate the internal bell if the system is not armed.
Change the zone type to Panic?

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

It can, but its not the right way to do it. Also it will only activate the internal bell if the system is not armed.
Change the zone type to Panic?

I overlooked the PA attribute. Panic Alarm duh...

altor

Another option would be to activate the keypad panic in the miscellaneous menu, PA menu. What this does it when you press the the arrow up and arrow down key together it activates a panic alarm.

davkav

altor wrote: »

Another option would be to activate the keypad panic in the miscellaneous menu, PA menu. What this does it when you press the the arrow up and arrow down key together it activates a panic alarm.

Good to know Altor but the panic button is right beside the keypad and its much easier to explain to the other half

davkav

Sorry guys for all the questions.

Does the panic button loop need a resistor in line?

Also Im going to pick up a few more resistors during the week and wire all the loops with Dual EOL.

altor

davkav wrote: »

Good to know Altor but the panic button is right beside the keypad and its much easier to explain to the other half

Cant argue with that

altor

davkav wrote: »

Sorry guys for all the questions.

Does the panic button loop need a resistor in line?

Also Im going to pick up a few more resistors during the week and wire all the loops with Dual EOL.

Yes all zones either need 1 resistor if set up as alarm or 2 resistors if set up for duel.

KoolKid

Probably esier for you to go single EOL if you are looping 2 panic buttons.

davkav

OK jackpot.

I still cant get my head around it though.

One of the inertia sensors was the cause. When I last checked the loop resistance it was ~16 ohms. And then when I went to troubleshoot the inertia sensor the loop broke without me touching any wires, just by simply taking the cover off of the sensor.

I bypassed the inertia sensor and the loop resistance dropped to 2.5 ohms. Bingo.

So I swapped in a known good inertia sensor and the same thing happened?!?! The loop stayed broken. Bypassed the inertia sensor once again and the resistance dropped to 2.5 ohms...

KoolKid

Just get that replaced & your laughing (Or sleeping peacefully;))

davkav

Yeah will do.

The shopping list just got bigger, I found one faulty panic button and one faulty contact.

The contact doesn't effect the alarm whether it is closed or open...

Anyway hopefully the inertia sensor was the one and only cause of the false alarms.

Many thanks to KoolKid and the rest for all your help.

Hopefully I can sleep soundly tonight.

KoolKid

davkav wrote: »

The shopping list just got bigger, I found one faulty panic button and one faulty contact.

Yeah, I ment to say that earlier. Usually when you see a panic button disconnected, its been done for a reason.

davkav

New inertia sensor fitted last night and everythiing seems hunky dory. The loop resistance is nice and low.

Ive fitted the new panic buttons as well, just need to wire them into the panel this evening.

Quick question should the Zone attributes for a loop that has contacts and inertia sensors be In, La?

altor

davkav wrote: »

Quick question should the Zone attributes for a loop that has contacts and inertia sensors be In, La?

No LA and no LS will give a full activation for an activation on either the shock or contact. It can be set to give a local alarm for the shock activation and a full for the window being open, No LA and no LS would be the better option.