Bitch About Hitchens Here

Galvasean

*Grumble grumble* warmongering

*grumble grumble* got what he deserved from drinking too much

*grumble grumble* Now I haven't read or seen much about Hitchens BUT let me tell you something about Christopher Hitchens!

MagicMarker

I hear he once passed a church without making the sign of the cross.

The Mad Hatter

MagicMarker wrote: »

I hear he once passed a church without making the sign of the cross.

He made half a cross.

sink

I heard he didn't show due deference to a Pope, what a monster!

Boulevardier

I bet he's rethinking the atheism bit now!

Sarky

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

He made half a cross.

AHA!

HE WAS CHRISTIAN ALL ALONG AND JUST TESTING OUR FAITH

Bloody Hitchens, forcing me think about my own preconceptions and beliefs... who the hell does he think he is...

MrPudding

Boulevardier wrote: »

I bet he's rethinking the atheism bit now!

How could he? He is dead. Have you not seen the news?

I have to say I found it attitude to the war in Iraq quite distasteful. I am happy to disagree with him on that, and I am sure he would not have been in the least bit bothered.

He will be missed. I am genuinely sad at his passing, more so than for any other "famous" person that has died.

MrP

krudler

Boulevardier wrote: »

I bet he's rethinking the atheism bit now!

or just chuckling in nonexistance after finding out he was right all along, annoyed he cant get a message back to the rest of us.

Beruthiel

I heard he once suggested the missionary position to the saintly Mother Teresa!

The Mad Hatter

MrPudding wrote: »

I have to say I found it attitude to the war in Iraq quite distasteful. I am happy to disagree with him on that, and I am sure he would not have been in the least bit bothered.

I feel the same way, but it was nice seeing someone argue in favour of the war coherently and consistently.

smokingman

Some say...he may have been in the same room as children without fiddling them!...
Some say...he may have told people to use condoms!...
Some say...he may have.....


ah fek it, I can't do this....he was too lovely and cuddly to write anything bad about him.

Delirium

smokingman wrote: »

Some say...he may have been in the same room as children without fiddling them!...
Some say...he may have told people to use condoms!...
Some say...he may have.....

All we know is, he's called the Stig.



:p:pac:

[-0-]

I heard he was caught reading The Origin of Species at a Baptism. What a monster!

Eramen

I heard he was reincarnated as a rock.. he had to pay for his sinz

Gonzor

Never heard of him until the other day when I saw the post on here about his death. So I watched one of the videos and got as far as the line:

I am absolutely convinced that the main source of hatred in the world is religion.

I turned it off there. Most of the people I know either here in Ireland, the UK or the USA couldnt give a rats ass about religion. THey would be more inclined to get pissed off about the latest political scandal then anything religion can throw their way.

Dades

I also disagree with that (context-less) remark.

The world has a lot of assholes in it. Many of them in power.

Zombrex

Gonzor wrote: »

Never heard of him until the other day when I saw the post on here about his death. So I watched one of the videos and got as far as the line:

I am absolutely convinced that the main source of hatred in the world is religion.

I turned it off there. Most of the people I know either here in Ireland, the UK or the USA couldnt give a rats ass about religion. THey would be more inclined to get pissed off about the latest political scandal then anything religion can throw their way.

That is because most people in Ireland (and the West except maybe USA) don't give a rats ass about religion any more. Countries that have high religiosity also have high levels of religious motivated hatred. Ireland has for most of its existence, but this has decreases significantly in recent years as religious worship has as well.

Its like saying Malaria is one of the worst killers in the world to be met by someone saying Well in Ireland we don't have any malaria so I don't know what you are talking about.

Obviously if, as Hitch hoped, religion declines into insignificance religious hatred will be as insignificant.

It is a shame he never saw what is happening across the Western world repeated across the whole world.

Gonzor

Zombrex wrote: »

That is because most people in Ireland (and the West except maybe USA) don't give a rats ass about religion any more. Countries that have high religiosity also have high levels of religious motivated hatred. Ireland has for most of its existence, but this has decreases significantly in recent years as religious worship has as well.

Its like saying Malaria is one of the worst killers in the world to be met by someone saying Well in Ireland we don't have any malaria so I don't know what you are talking about.

Obviously if, as Hitch hoped, religion declines into insignificance religious hatred will be as insignificant.

It is a shame he never saw what is happening across the Western world repeated across the whole world.

Well I didnt want to comment on the troubles in the East (I assume thats what you're getting at) because I havent being there personally. But all the "middle easterners" I go to college with, they seem to think that religion isnt the problem at all.

They think bad politics is the cause of it, but religion gets the bad wrap time and time again.

And also its usually a minority who instigate most of the trouble anyway. Usually the majority of the people just want to get on with their lives.

Take Osama Bin Laden (the biggest boogey man there is/was in recent years) how many people of his own religion hate him and think what hes doing is wrong. Its a similar situation to our catholic priests abusing kids, the majority of us Catholics hate them and would believe what they are doing contradicts the religion.

Brown Bomber

sink wrote: »

I heard he didn't show due deference to a Pope, what a monster!

That's a little rich considering a thread on Hitchens dying here, a discussion board, became a love-in for fanboys only and "ssshh..,don't mention the war" or the pile of Iraqi corpses.

Logical Fallacy

Eramen wrote: »

I heard he was reincarnated as a rock.. he had to pay for his sinz

Someone hasn't been on the net long enough to remember The Adventures of Rock.

Always made me think rocks have a pretty good life!:D

Delirium

Brown Bomber wrote: »

That's a little rich considering a thread on Hitchens dying here, a discussion board, became a love-in for fanboys only and "ssshh..,don't mention the war" or the pile of Iraqi corpses.

no, you were told to create a new thread to discuss the topic.

You can discuss his opinions on the Iraq war here if you like.

Penn

Brown Bomber wrote: »

That's a little rich considering a thread on Hitchens dying here, a discussion board, became a love-in for fanboys only and "ssshh..,don't mention the war" or the pile of Iraqi corpses.

It's not like he made those Iraqi corpses. And I didn't see many of us praising him for his stance on Iraq, perhaps some respected how he stuck by his guns with it even if we disagreed ourselves.

But his opinion on the war in Iraq doesn't necessarily tarnish all the things people may have liked him for. I'm a huge fan of Kevin Smith even though he believes in some things I don't. I'm a huge fan of Penn Jillette even though he believes in some things I don't. I can still respect what they do.

sensibleken

I never paid much attention to him but I developed an intense dislike for the man in the run up to the Iraq war. Trying to give intellectual support for such a dishonest and immoral act for that while sitting in absolute safety trumps anything positive he might have said.

Sonics2k

Brown Bomber wrote: »

That's a little rich considering a thread on Hitchens dying here, a discussion board, became a love-in for fanboys only and "ssshh..,don't mention the war" or the pile of Iraqi corpses.

Now don't get me wrong.
The Hitch was a great man in a lot of ways, but that doesn't mean we always agreed on matters.

I was firmly opposed to the Iraq War as it was based on a lie, I probably would of had less issue with it if the US and UK had just been honest for their reasons, or at least claimed it was to purely get rid of Saddam, and not make up complete fabrications about WMDs and Al Qaeda working with Saddam.

He said a few things I disagreed with, and a lot I agreed with. But the point is he was a great debater and challenged your thoughts, instead of taking things at face value.

sensibleken

Sonics2k wrote: »

But the point is he was a great debater and challenged your thoughts, instead of taking things at face value.

thats fair enough but personally I dont think thats any reason to admire someone. I think what they are arguing for is.

Mark Hamill

Brown Bomber wrote: »

That's a little rich considering a thread on Hitchens dying here, a discussion board, became a love-in for fanboys only and "ssshh..,don't mention the war" or the pile of Iraqi corpses.

Let me get this straight, you are bitching about not being able to bitch about Hitchens in the "The Hitch has died" thread, in a thread called "Bitch about Hitchens here"?

Is this meta irony or something?

Bandana boy

sensibleken wrote: »

thats fair enough but personally I dont think thats any reason to admire someone. I think what they are arguing for is.

One of the great debaters of the modern age.
A man who got many to see past their childhood indoctrinated prejudices and to challenge these beliefs with rational thought and logic.

Surely this is what is important.

A man who can get sheep to follow him, we have thousands of those and often they do more harm than good.
A man who challenges your belief systems ,get you to think for yourself, to consider if what you stand for is moral and ethical.To set your own standards on what constitutes ethical.To evolve/grow past the preconceptions of your Parents and your community,this is what changes the world for the good.This is a more admirable and rare quality than any other.

sensibleken

Bandana boy wrote: »

One of the great debaters of the modern age.
A man who got many to see past their childhood indoctrinated prejudices and to challenge these beliefs with rational thought and logic.

Surely this is what is important.

A man who can get sheep to follow him, we have thousands of those and often they do more harm than good.
A man who challenges your belief systems ,get you to think for yourself, to consider if what you stand for is moral and ethical.To set your own standards on what constitutes ethical.To evolve/grow past the preconceptions of your Parents and your community,this is what changes the world for the good.This is a more admirable and rare quality than any other.

I really don't care about any of that. for me it was overshaddowed by his arguing for the Iraq war.

Galvasean

Yeah, you're welcome Brown Bomber :rolleyes:

Beruthiel

sensibleken wrote: »

I really don't care about any of that. for me it was overshaddowed by his arguing for the Iraq war.

Nobody is perfect you know.
I also did not agree with the war in Iraq.
But, like other people in my life, I can still respect and care for someone who's opinion I completely disagree with.
Are you only surrounded with people who agree 100% on everything you believe?

sbsquarepants

Beruthiel wrote: »

I heard he once suggested the missionary position to the saintly Mother Teresa!

The man was clearly insane. If ever a situtation demands doggy style, this is it!:eek:

As for hitchens, I always thought he was a bit of an asshole to be honest. I've seen no reason to change my view so far. He was undeniably smart and a good talker, but an asshole nonetheless.

sensibleken

Beruthiel wrote: »

Nobody is perfect you know.
I also did not agree with the war in Iraq.
But, like other people in my life, I can still respect and care for someone who's opinion I completely disagree with.
Are you only surrounded with people who agree 100% on everything you believe?

What? no, and i wasnt surrounded by christopher hitchens either.

sensibleken

ShooterSF wrote: »

I doubt anyone familiar with your posts are shocked at the fact that you don’t care about people being helped free themselves from indoctrination but many of us here do so that'd probably explain the difference in opinion.

Care to elaborate on that? Are you confusing me with someone else?

ShooterSF

sensibleken wrote: »

Care to elaborate on that? Are you confusing me with someone else?

Oh **** I am. Blame the phone My humble apologies! Message erased.

_________
In that case you're just wrong :P

joseph brand

Gonzor wrote: »

Well I didnt want to comment on the troubles in the East (I assume thats what you're getting at) because I havent being there personally. But all the "middle easterners" I go to college with, they seem to think that religion isnt the problem at all.

Take Osama Bin Laden (the biggest boogey man there is/was in recent years) how many people of his own religion hate him and think what hes doing is wrong. Its a similar situation to our catholic priests abusing kids, the majority of us Catholics hate them and would believe what they are doing contradicts the religion.

I'm just guessing here, but, if those child raping priests really believed what they were preaching, would they not be afraid of 'eternal damnation' and burning for eternity in flames? Were they just in it for the money/ power/ something else?

Paedo priest = non-believer.

joseph brand

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The man was clearly insane. If ever a situtation demands doggy style, this is it!:eek:

As for hitchens, I always thought he was a bit of an asshole to be honest. I've seen no reason to change my view so far. He was undeniably smart and a good talker, but an asshole nonetheless.

Any reason why he was an asshole? It's always nice to back up a statement like that.

A man telling people to think for themselves and not be bullied by 'leaders', what a p*ick. :rolleyes:

Gonzor

Why is there so much vibes comming of this thread (and the other one) that pretty much says "Hitchens is the guy that taught us to think for ourselves".... Jesus Christ, are people that thick and stupid that they actually needed to be told at some point in their lives to 'think for themselves' :rolleyes:

Sonics2k

Gonzor wrote: »

Why is there so much vibes comming of this thread (and the other one) that pretty much says "Hitchens is the guy that taught us to think for ourselves".... Jesus Christ, are people that thick and stupid that they actually needed to be told at some point in their lives to 'think for themselves' :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone said that

They may have said he opened their eyes to new views, possibly changed their minds on some issues, but no-one said "taught us to think for ourselves" or similar.

Gonzor

Sonics2k wrote: »

I don't think anyone said that

Joesph Brand: I did not have you in mind when I wrote my last post, so please dont see that post (or this post) as an attack on you. Im not going to say who, but theres one decent(ish) example of my original point in this thread, one or two in the other thread, and countless great examples on the comments on Hitchens youtube videos.

Sonics. Firstly I said "vibes", or in other words- nobody said that exact phrase. It was just impressions I was getting.

But coincidently enough, Joesph Brand posted right before my post (and his post wasnt there when I was typing mine up) and he pretty much used the same words I did.

Bandana boy

Gonzor wrote: »

Why is there so much vibes comming of this thread (and the other one) that pretty much says "Hitchens is the guy that taught us to think for ourselves".... Jesus Christ, are people that thick and stupid that they actually needed to be told at some point in their lives to 'think for themselves' :rolleyes:

Yes -In fact the vast majority of the planet needs to be taught this.
They certainly do not learn it in school or church.

religion by its very essence is "do not think for yourself"

Gonzor

Bandana boy wrote: »

Yes -In fact the vast majority of the planet needs to be taught this.
They certainly do not learn it in school or church.

religion by its very essence is "do not think for yourself"

I wont argue with you about the religion aspect of "thinking for yourself" Im quite sure you're right

But in this day and age, (especially in the western world), we shouldnt need Hitchens (or anybody) to tell us to think for ourselves.

There is so much information out there for anyone who opens their eyes and looks. Its not like perhaps in our grandparents times were information wasn't as freely available and you just had to take the newspapers/priest/politcians word for it.

---

ANyway. Im done here. Im feeling a bit bad for bringing such a crap attitude about a guy who seems to have to "helped" so many people. Certainly more than I'll ever help.

Brown Bomber

koth wrote: »

no, you were told to create a new thread to discuss the topic.

You can discuss his opinions on the Iraq war here if you like.

Actually, you'll find I was discussing the topic - Hitchens (and his legacy). I just wasn't gushing over a warmonger in a memorial book and looking the other way from the(by some accounts) over a million deaths due to a war he incessantly supported.

Brown Bomber

Penn wrote: »

It's not like he made those Iraqi corpses.

By that token it's not like Julius Streicher made any Jewish corpses yet he was executed for Crimes Against Humanity.

Penn wrote: »

And I didn't see many of us praising him for his stance on Iraq, perhaps some respected how he stuck by his guns with it even if we disagreed ourselves.

Anyone who praises him for "sticking to his guns" is as foolish as Hitchens made himself out to be. In this context "sticking by his guns" means being too stupid/arrogant/or deceptive to accept you were wrong about the completely debunked lies that he helped sell to the world an illegal war of aggression. Nonsense like WMD's, illicit uranium deals with Niger and Al Qaeda of 9-11 fame in Iraq.

Penn wrote: »

But his opinion on the war in Iraq doesn't necessarily tarnish all the things people may have liked him for.

Not believing in God..?

Of course it tarnishes it. Who remembers Julius Streicher or Lord Haw Haw for any mediocre positive impact they had on the world?

Penn wrote: »

II'm a huge fan of Kevin Smith even though he believes in some things I don't. I'm a huge fan of Penn Jillette even though he believes in some things I don't. I can still respect what they do.

Yes of course you can but are they warmongers?

MagicMarker

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Actually, you'll find I was discussing the topic - Hitchens (and his legacy). I just wasn't gushing over a warmonger in a memorial book and looking the other way from the(by some accounts) over a million deaths due to a war he incessantly supported.

Did he support the death of over a million people?

What about your views on WWII? I hope you don't support a war against the Nazis you filthy warmonger you.

Brown Bomber

MagicMarker wrote: »

Did he support the death of over a million people?

Yes. Indirectly. He campaigned for the war which led to the deaths of over a million people.

MagicMarker wrote: »

What about your views on WWII? I hope you don't support a war against the Nazis you filthy warmonger you.

Well you have that arse backwards. In your example the US would be the aggressors and therefore Nazis and Hitchens would be the Nazi propogandist selling war to the German people. Scribbling away incessantly from Berlin about the Reichstag fire, the Treaty of Versailles, Lebensraum, The Jewish question and so on.

MagicMarker

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yes. Indirectly. He campaigned for the war which led to the deaths of over a million people.

Well you have that arse backwards. In your example the US would be the aggressors and therefore Nazis and Hitchens would be the Nazi propogandist selling war to the German people. Scribbling away incessantly from Berlin about the Reichstag fire, the Treaty of Versailles, Lebensraum, The Jewish question and so on.

Nil points, troll harder.

Brown Bomber

MagicMarker wrote: »

Nil points, troll harder.

???

What's the difference between a Nazi warmonger hack writing about Lebensraum and Hitchens writing about the need to go to war with Iraq for the WMD they assuredly have?

MagicMarker

Brown Bomber wrote: »

???

What's the difference between a Nazi warmonger hack writing about Lebensraum and Hitchens writing about the need to go to war with Iraq for the WMD they assuredly have?

What's the difference between an enemy warmonger and an ally warmonger?

Unless you're a pacifist then aren't we all warmongers? You just happen to be one warmonger who disagrees with another.

Vomit

Nice thread!

Well, lets see- commentators like Christopher Hitchens helped march the West into the East on yet another imperialistic effort, killing over 1,000,000 Iraqis alone, and razing Afghanistan to the ground. Those men, women and children are dead, and they are never coming back. Those aircraft carriers float on public support just as much as they do water, and people like Hitchens, albeit indirectly, have blood on their hands.

But hey, he spoke cleverly about religion...yaaay!! There are people reading this who wish they are as smart as Hitchens was, and who hope that he would have considered them peers. No, he considered you to be paying customers for his books, and nothing more.

It's amazing how many people here are saying, "I disagreed with his stance on the war, but..." But what? Why can't you just dissociate yourself from him? Is your moral fibre so thin that all someone has to do to win your undying fandom is speak favourably on a single topic you care about? It boggles the mind, really. There are plenty of people you can look to who can speak very eloquently about religion and atheism. Why does THIS a-hole have to be your champion, so much so that you'll seek to censor anyone who speaks ill of him. I received a mod warning on the other thread for 'being naughty' for mildly scoffing at someone's attempt to dismiss my opinion as trolling. (As I write this, I see the same user calling someone else a troll too) Did Hitchens make donations to this forum? Am I missing something? When Hitchens put pen to paper in his latter years, I think he knew how easily his target audience could be won over.

MagicMarker

Vomit wrote: »

commentators like Christopher Hitchens helped march the West into the East on yet another imperialistic effort

Did he pay for petrol or something?

Vomit

MagicMarker wrote: »

Did he pay for petrol or something?

Now that really IS trolling.