Cork (Kent) Station - as it used to be

corktina

Does anyone recall the short little siding let into the main platform about half way down its length? Was it for Horse Boxes or Gas Tankers or what?

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

Does anyone recall the short little siding let into the main platform about half way down its length? Was it for Horse Boxes or Gas Tankers or what?

If you mean the siding behind platform 5 it was for moving steam locomotives from one end of the trains to the other ready for departure and leaving the arriving locomotive in cork.

but you probably mean the old platform 4 which was removed in 1984, it was most likely for commuter services from mallow or for trains from the Cork & Youghal railway?

corktina

not sure of the platform numbers. If you imagine the arrival platform next to the concourse and walk to your left, there was a small bay (would it be called a Byte?) and the track continued past it and back to the platform again, effectively bypassing it. From memory, I can't imagine it would be big enough for a loco,about the size of one van

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

not sure of the platform numbers. If you imagine the arrival platform next to the concourse and walk to your left, there was a small bay (would it be called a Byte?) and the track continued past it and back to the platform again, effectively bypassing it. From memory, I can't imagine it would be big enough for a loco,about the size of one van

Possibly for the mail van? Is there any evidence of it left? Will have a look the next time I am in cork:)

roundymac

corktina wrote: »

not sure of the platform numbers. If you imagine the arrival platform next to the concourse and walk to your left, there was a small bay (would it be called a Byte?) and the track continued past it and back to the platform again, effectively bypassing it. From memory, I can't imagine it would be big enough for a loco,about the size of one van

Ya, that could be called platform 4, the buffer stop for it would have been at the end of platform 5. I remember vans used to be there, don't remember if they were mail or what. The track from platform 5 passed outside of it and then turned into it about half way down it's length.

foggy_lad

There is a freight loop at the station used for placing the locomotives at either end of trains b ut there was also a small platform 4 at the end of what was platform 5 AFAIK it was here http://g.co/maps/2ssmz the short stretch of platform recessed from the main platform. AFAIK the tracks were removed in 1984.

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,568598,572276,7,3

Victor

The platforms are as follows:

1 Terminal platform facing Youghal / Cobh.
2 Terminal platform facing Youghal / Cobh.
3 Terminal platform facing Youghal / Cobh.
Short, un-numbered bay platform, track now removed.
4 Convex through platform.
5 Concave through platform, accessed via lift / subway.

Certainly that has been the numbering since at least 1986.

I don't know what the short bay platform was for. If anything, I'd suspect it was for post from Cobh before Rosslare was built

corktina

the short unnumbered one must be the one, but I thought it had been got rid of completely by extending the platform, maybe not then so? Must go have a look see.

Itssoeasy

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/img0267uyt.jpg/

Took this picture tonight in kent station. Is this the general area of that former siding ?

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

the short unnumbered one must be the one, but I thought it had been got rid of completely by extending the platform, maybe not then so? Must go have a look see.

The first picture in this post by Victor shows what looks like the platform with loose sections of track in place.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76384690&postcount=34

Itssoeasy

That picture doesn't show where the track ended. The buffer stop was much further back.

foggy_lad

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That picture doesn't show where the track ended. The buffer stop was much further back.

It was only a very short stretch of track barely enough for a locomotive and guards van.

roundymac

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That picture doesn't show where the track ended. The buffer stop was much further back.

Yes I think your right, platform 4 has been extended by the looks of it..Also the line from platform 4 cut into platform 3 sooner than what it does now. God, I used know every inch of those platforms, amazing how time plays with your memories.:eek:

corktina

thats what I thought. The short bay was not far to the left as you entered the paltforms.

roundymac

The Dublin trains were so long in those days that rear carraiges were often in the tunnel and you had to walk forward in order to leave the train.

Victor

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That picture doesn't show where the track ended. The buffer stop was much further back.

roundymac wrote: »

Yes I think your right, platform 4 has been extended by the looks of it..Also the line from platform 4 cut into platform 3 sooner than what it does now. God, I used know every inch of those platforms, amazing how time plays with your memories.:eek:

Well I think that might depend on the era. This (circa 1907) shows a much longer platform 3 / bay platform as far as the red centre cross: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,568725,572328,7,9 and no noticeable increase in the length of platform 4.

In the attached image, the bay platform (blue) may have been longer than platform 4 (green), with platform 3 (red) was the longest platform.

corktina

the overlap of the blue and green is the bit inquestion Id say

roundymac

corktina wrote: »

the overlap of the blue and green is the bit inquestion Id say

Yes it is. That bit of platform between 3 & 4 is now "open plan" for want of a better way to describe it, so it's very hard to actually see what it looked like in days gone by.

Victor

corktina wrote: »

the overlap of the blue and green is the bit inquestion Id say

Sorry, not the overlap was not deliberate.

Based on the map, the end of the bay stopped exactly where it is now (exact position of the buffers unknown). But both the bay platform and platform 3 were much longer. The open-sided canopy (not the train hall) was also longer, in the style of Connolly platforms 4-5.

Itssoeasy

The poster eiretrains had a lot of pictures of Kent station on his website before he updated it and streamlined that gallery and one picture showed a Dublin- Cork mail train passing that short platform. He could sort this out easily.

Itssoeasy

Seeing as this is a thread on Kent station and seeing as there are the two videos in the train porn one showing steam engines in Kent station. How hard of a slog is it/was it for steam trains to get up the gradient of the tunnel out of cork ?

corktina

sometimes needed three engine on the climb. Two at the front was normal with one on the back at times.

Itssoeasy

corktina wrote: »

sometimes needed three engine on the climb. Two at the front was normal with one on the back at times.

It's amazing they built a tunnel that long and at that gradient in 1855. And I know I'm probably biased but Kent station is the nicest one Ive seen. I love the curved train shed and just the lay out of the station and how there are still semaphores at the east end of the station. And the old signal still on the platform and a subway instead of a footbridge and how the station still has the black and white tiles on the platform. It still has character is what I'm trying to say.

Victor

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It's amazing they built a tunnel that long and at that gradient in 1855.

Given that they need to go from about 5 above sea level to about 135m above sea level in about 20km, which averages 1:150.

CaptainSkidmark

Victor wrote: »

Well I think that might depend on the era. This (circa 1907) shows a much longer platform 3 / bay platform as far as the red centre cross: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,568725,572328,7,9 and no noticeable increase in the length of platform 4.

In the attached image, the bay platform (blue) may have been longer than platform 4 (green), with platform 3 (red) was the longest platform.

Bu god there is some amount of track there!

Eiretrains

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The poster eiretrains had a lot of pictures of Kent station on his website before he updated it and streamlined that gallery and one picture showed a Dublin- Cork mail train passing that short platform. He could sort this out easily.

Ok I'll try.:D
I've been trying to figure out the platform everyone is referring to. The photo below may explain the position of it, if it is the one concerned. It could only hold a few carriages and I think it was used for stabling the mail vans or other rolling stock. The track was probably removed in 1987 when the station was partially re-signalled under CTC.
Please respect this photo, I have permission to publicise it here, but it is copyrighted, I just hope it satisfies some people's queries.

Itssoeasy

Eiretrains wrote: »

Ok I'll try.:D
I've been trying to figure out the platform everyone is referring to. The photo below may explain the position of it, if it is the one concerned. It could only hold a few carriages and I think it was used for stabling the mail vans or other rolling stock. The track was probably removed in 1987 when the station was partially re-signalled under CTC.
Please respect this photo, I have permission to publicise it here, but it is copyrighted, I just hope it satisfies some people's queries.

Not the picture I was on about eiretrains. The one I remember is of an A class loco and the picture shows the just emerging from the train shed the opposite end to the tunnel and you can see the buffer stop of the short platform.

Eiretrains

Ok maybe these two courtesy of Steve Parker, these are the two images I had on the website until recently.

roundymac

Picture num 1 is the one. The carraiges behind the semaphores are at the platform.

Itssoeasy

Kent station on wednesday the 1st of February. Anyone know why the seem to be replacing the track ?

Victor

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Anyone know why the seem to be replacing the track ?

That may be for somewhere else. I suspect straight rail wouldn't fit to a curve like that - its one of the most severe curves in the country.

Track is relaid at various points on an on-going basis.

Victor

This shows that there used to be 6 numbered platforms in Cork.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Railway_station_in_Cork_NLI.jpg

topnotch

Interesting photo of elephants at Kent Station near very bottom of page.

http://corkheritage.ie/?page_id=388

The True Puka

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It's amazing they built a tunnel that long and at that gradient in 1855. And I know I'm probably biased but Kent station is the nicest one Ive seen. I love the curved train shed and just the lay out of the station and how there are still semaphores at the east end of the station. And the old signal still on the platform and a subway instead of a footbridge and how the station still has the black and white tiles on the platform. It still has character is what I'm trying to say.

Indeed you are quite right. However, that is soon to change for the worst. Kent redevelopment is just the latest in IE's determination to erase anything of historical note from the network. The wrought iron railings have already succumbed to the cutters torch and now lie in the builders compound.
I doubt they will be replaced, no doubt for "Health and Safety" reasons and cheapo stainless steel tubes are already in their place.
Where they are left at the moment, they are prime beef for metal thieves.
I'd imagine they will remove the tiles as well as part of the platform stabilisation plan. Proably be replaced by concrete flags or else plastered over with that god awful red grippy coating.

I'd advise anyone to go down and do a good photographic survey of the place while it still has some of it's originality.

I would be fearful that it will meet the same fate as Connolly after the job they did on that. Ruined really now and there's nothing of interest left in the main concourse.

gobnaitolunacy

They put up replica railings maybe 10 years ago that were in character with originals, now it looks very like the first day ones around the subway are being replaced with something more suited to the interior of a cattle mart, mores the pity.

The True Puka

Do you think there's any chance some of the preservation groups could get their hands on the railings and maybe sell them to enthusiasts or other groups to raise funds.
It would be an ideal opportunity for the ITG. €100 a panel would make a nice little contribution towards 226.

gobnaitolunacy

Chances are, if they survive the attentions of metal fanatics, they'll be whisked away up to some Inchicore warehouse with all the ETS instruments, staffs and the Lost Ark of the Covenant.

The True Puka

Christ that's depressing.

Do the IRRS have any plans for another visit to Inchicore works. I remembered the last one in 2008 or 9 (which turned out to be a bit of a circus) I explored the outside some warehouses alone. Looking in the windows you could see a lot of random stuff.

Perhaps on the next visit there could be some arrangement to inspect the contents of some of the storage locations and photograph the contents.
Unfortunately on the last visit some of the older guard tool liberites and rambled off where they were told not to go. This caused a lot of bad blood. I personally witnessed one particular individual scrambling over a pile of scrap to get at a pair of Mk3s lined up on the scrapping line. This caused a lot of bad blood.
Anyway, what I think should be done with all this gear is to perhaps donate it to a preservation group who could make use of it. Perhaps directly or selling it to enthusiasts to raise funds.
One thing that's for certain is that it will slowly disappear from the yard for good.
I know that in certain depots in the past, large scale pilfering from stores was absolutely endemic. I remember back in the 90's in my home town where local railwaymen drinking in the pubs every night would always be doing deals involving various pieces material- from PW pieces to brand new halogen yard lights, fencing, ducting and drainage materials. It was standard form back in them days - there was something wrong with you if you weren't in on some sort of fiddle.
I know this because my father once bought good few lengths of galvanised channel iron from a railway worker that he used to build a trailer body.
Heritage equipment would be big bucks and would probably go unnoticed from the stores.
Perhaps we should approach IE with a view to inspecting and aquireing some defunct equipment?

Losty Dublin

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Chances are, if they survive the attentions of metal fanatics, they'll be whisked away up to some Inchicore warehouse with all the ETS instruments, staffs and the Lost Ark of the Covenant.

ETS signal equipment actually belongs to Eircom, they being the successors to P+T and the days of Telegraph. It's up to them where it ends up, or at least it is their call.

Temp101

ETS Machines are the property of IE and eircom are just paid for maintenance.

Losty Dublin

Temp101 wrote: »

ETS Machines are the property of IE and eircom are just paid for maintenance.

The ETS aren't Irish Rail property; they are derived from the old days of telegrams and are the property of P+T and hence Eircom. The signals and lever frames themselves are railway articles and the railway maintains same.

Or maybe the Irish Rail signal executive who told me this is wrong and you right

The True Puka

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The ETS aren't Irish Rail property; they are derived from the old days of telegrams and are the property of P+T and hence Eircom. The signals and lever frames themselves are railway articles and the railway maintains same.

Or maybe the Irish Rail signal executive who told me this is wrong and you right

Either way, there should be some move made to obtain some of them for the enthusiast scene . I'd be confident that they would be made available as they are of no use whatsoever to either company at this stage.
Perhaps someone should approach Gregg Ryan in IE as I believe he is responsible for this sort of thing. What would be the best approach to take I wonder? It's an awful waste in the current situation.

gobnaitolunacy

A number of ex IE instruments have already been sent to the Welsh Highland.

Temp101

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Or maybe the Irish Rail signal executive who told me this is wrong and you right

Remind your IE contact that the IE Heritage Officer collects the old equipment when cabins are closed, and he then has them stored. The Welsh Highland, in recent years, has been the recipient of former IE ETS machines for their proposed replacement of staff and ticket, provided through the IE Heritage Officer.

Losty Dublin

Temp101 wrote: »

Remind your IE contact that the IE Heritage Officer collects the old equipment when cabins are closed, and he then has them stored. The Welsh Highland, in recent years, has been the recipient of former IE ETS machines for their proposed replacement of staff and ticket, provided through the IE Heritage Officer.

The CIE heritage officer obtains them from Eircom simply because they as a company have no use for them otherwise they end up being dumped ands scavenged (Which has happened a lot in the past). There are a couple of firms in England that still work with ETS and token/tablet systems; they strip them down before they are stored and/or passed on to the likes of the Welsh Highland. Where the heritage officer comes in to it is that he know's the if's and what's of it all for

And I'll be honest here; like you I thought it was Irish Rail's to use and dispose of as they wished till I found out otherwise from my friend.