Get rid of county councillors

Pete2012

As a means of reducing public sector employees perhaps county councillors could be got rid of instead of reducing front line workers. Too many of them sit in on public meetings where nothing meaningful is achieved and then claim expenses for doing so. The main aim of their work is to be reelected hence they focus on getting their name into the media as much as possible.

That's my two cents on them. Do they do anything productive does anyone know?

femur61

Couldn't agree more, and the county councils need reviewing as well. Here in Kilkenny they started a couple of weeks ago some ridicoulous road works in order to use up budget before year end.

Gumbo

femur61 wrote: »

Here in Kilkenny they started a couple of weeks ago some ridicoulous road works in order to use up budget before year end.

Same in Dublin, but in fairness, they were badly needed. There was holes and ramps in ruins from the freeze from Xmas 2010/2011.

Jaysoose

kceire wrote: »

Same in Dublin, but in fairness, they were badly needed. There was holes and ramps in ruins from the freeze from Xmas 2010/2011.

In fairness this work could have been done in the summer rather than causing maximum inconvenience for the people using the road. Its always funny how the public are the last people considered by councils etc when they actually decide to do some work, its always on their terms and the motive stems from protecting their own budgets.

Pete_Cavan

femur61 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, and the county councils need reviewing as well. Here in Kilkenny they started a couple of weeks ago some ridicoulous road works in order to use up budget before year end.

But this has nothing to do with Councillors, it is the staff within the County Council roads/infrastructure department who decide how, where and when their budget is spent, not so much the Councillors.

We have far too many local authorities - 34 council level authorities in the country (29 county councils, 5 city councils) although I think there will be mergers in Tipperary and Limerick. We also have 9 "Regional Authorities" (made up of council reps in the region which really have no power).


Imo, it would be better just to scrap the county/city councils and instead use the Regional Authorities for local gov. Larger administrative areas would reduce costs and allow for better regional planning. Devolving more power to these Regional Authorities and having accountable elected officials would give somewhere for gombeens like the Healy-Reas to go where parish pump mindset would be of benifit. Appearantly Phil Hogan has other ideas and wants to scrap Regional Authorities altogether.

Smiley Burnett

Getting rid of Co Councillors would save a fraction of 1% of the entire budget spent by local authorities.

Pete2012

Every bit would help, especially if that 1% (or whatever amount it would total to) is not adding value to the country.

gandalf

Pete_Cavan has hit the nail on the head here. We have way too many local authorities in Ireland. Every county council has an accounts department, it department, hr department the duplication of roles in a country the size of Ireland is quite frightful and wasteful. I think at most we should have 9 local authorities and no more.

Give them some real power within their local areas, give the councillors real power to exact change, ensure TD's are penalised severely if they do stray into any local issues.

Pete2012

Hi, just saw title to my thread hence the replys re; council issues etc

I ment our so called public representatives - councillors not county councillors but from the recent posts here an argument could be made to get rid of those too!!!!!

GetWithIt

1. Dissolve all Town Councils.
2. Centralise all common functions:
Local Authority Housing.
Planning
Allocation and distribution of Higher Education Grants.

Coincidentally these are the most abused areas of local authority.

In short just follow the exact same model as is in use in the North. Just ask the Shinners.

View

Pete2012 wrote: »

As a means of reducing public sector employees perhaps county councillors could be got rid of instead of reducing front line workers. Too many of them sit in on public meetings where nothing meaningful is achieved and then claim expenses for doing so. The main aim of their work is to be reelected hence they focus on getting their name into the media as much as possible.

That's my two cents on them. Do they do anything productive does anyone know?

It is the above which is the problem not the county councillors. We run an extremely centralised unitary state which does as much as possible to prevent local government from doing anything, hence we have "useless" county councils/councillors.

Make the councils the default unit of government (with tax raising and spending powers) through which citizens access most government services and you'll suddenly find that the county councils and councillors are useful - indeed, you'd see a marked increase in the quality of councillors once "ordinary people" realise they can control services which directly impact their quality of life.

Irish Steve

At the risk of living dangerously, if the county councils had been properly resourced and structured, many of the problem issues that have come out of the Celtic Tiger period would have been non issues.

If building regulations were properly enforced as they are in the UK, there would not have been the issues like Priory Hall, the Pyrite Issues, and many others that are not reported in detail, but happened.

Things like roads and drainage would be properly managed and maintained,

Lots of other things that would be much better.

But, we've got the worst of all worlds. Local authorities that are staffed at higher levels by people that have forgotten what Public Service is about, Councillors that have to see their names in print every meeting in order to try and make sure they get re-elected, Central Government financing restrictions that mean local authorities are powerless to change things too much, empire building managers that are more concerned about their empire than about the service they provide, the list is endless, and unlikely to change any time soon.

Then there is the issue that the numbers just don't stack up. The number of authorities, duplicated services, and other issues already mentioned for a total population that's only the size of Birmingham is crazy, especially now that things are not as fluid and flexible as they were. We as a nation can't afford the luxury of massive numbers of managers to try and do things, especially as they no longer have the workers to do what they are supposed to.

I doubt it will change in my lifetime, even if the troka gets it's way, these things have a habit of being self perpetuating, and you only have to look at the beauracracy of the EU to realise that the lunatics are running the asylum, if Europe wants to be taken seriously, they will as a starting point get rid of the absurdity of relocating the parliament sittings from Brussels to Strasbourg on a regular basis, the costs are massive, and there's no advantage to anyone other than those directly involved in what is effectively Europe's biggest gravy train/pig trough.

mistermouse

Donegal County Councillors just a few weeks ago decided to give Finn Harps football team €20k, as the club is consistently almost bankrupt

Yet we have the main dual Carriageway into the counties largest (Gateway Status) town flooding and impassible every evening there is heavy rain.

I dont think the ordinary staff of the council supported this donation, but given the crisis the country is in I can't fathom why I am paying taxes for Councillors to piss in the wind like this

patwicklow

All they do is stuff there faces in five star venues talk crap and stratch each others backs iv seen it with my own eyes were i used to work unreal the carry on and the expences

Park Royal

I've sat in Council Chambers and watched as Councillors walked in late,

signed in, and left again.........

apparently they get paid for attending.....?

also as a remark of respect for any death which in any way could be deemed associated with any member or indeed remotely close to anybody ......
they retire or indeed close the meeting before it has begun ,until the next meeting.......

considering the hash the system has made of over supply of accommodation units in every county......the County Council system should be overhauled.......

its so crazy is it true there has to be an outside contractor engaged by a NW Council to monitor a Council member who has caused complaints about his behaviour towards Council employees.....and apparently its costing thousands....this is the same Council which spent 10's of thousands on a automatic toilet each year for close on ten years without finding a place to put it, so its been in a box for the past ten or more years........

its time for a change thats for sure.....

Climber

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Devolving more power to these Regional Authorities and having accountable elected officials would give somewhere for gombeens like the Healy-Reas to go where parish pump mindset would be of benifit.

You've hit the nail on the head there.

Gombeens are elected as TD's because the people (who vote for the Gombeens) know how the system works i.e. a TD's job is to go up to Dublin and get the money (for his local area). Period.

By reforming local government it will do three wonderful things for the country.

1 - Keep local politics local.
A person usually votes for local issues, i.e. transport, jobs, utilities, crime etc.
By directly electing local government officials who in turn have power over local taxation and spending ensures that they vote for a person on their ability to do this job (in the area where they are in). This person stays in that area and does his/her job. The local voter can fire him/her (by not voting for him/her again at the next election)

2 - Drastically limit the power of the Dail.
TD's elected to the national Dail will not carry the baggage of local politics and could focus on the job at hand i.e. legislate

3 - Resign Gombeens to history
It's all fine to elect Jacky Healy to go up to Dublin and get the money. But would you put him in charge of a local government dept. with responsibility for local taxation, local spending, local policing, local water/energy/refuse?
I wouldn't!

antoobrien

Bigger problem than the elected councils are the career civil servants behind them. We've a right shower of muppets in the Galway City Council. There's a road that is being resurfaced for over a year, which is on schedule to be 6 months late and €6 million over budget. The nameless, faceless and untouchable civil servants behind it failed to note that they don't have plans for the services (sewage, water etc) in the area which cost them 1-2 months, and didn't check who owned the land bordering the road the planned to use (costing them another 4-6 weeks. This last bit has happened in at least 2 other projects, costing them delays of several months to those projects as well.

mistermouse

And the amount of roads and other projects that are named by councillors after other previous councillors is shocking. Its not just a gravy train its an ego trip at times. Not to mention political dynasties

usamaoreilly

Pete2012 wrote: »

As a means of reducing public sector employees perhaps county councillors could be got rid of instead of reducing front line workers. Too many of them sit in on public meetings where nothing meaningful is achieved and then claim expenses for doing so. The main aim of their work is to be reelected hence they focus on getting their name into the media as much as possible.

That's my two cents on them. Do they do anything productive does anyone know?

I agree 100%...And they are as usefull as an ashtray on a motorbike anyway.

gandalf

gandalf wrote: »

Pete_Cavan has hit the nail on the head here. We have way too many local authorities in Ireland. Every county council has an accounts department, it department, hr department the duplication of roles in a country the size of Ireland is quite frightful and wasteful. I think at most we should have 9 local authorities and no more.

Give them some real power within their local areas, give the councillors real power to exact change, ensure TD's are penalised severely if they do stray into any local issues.

more power?? how about no local councillors and have one state roadworks etc company

Sleepy

Having provided software consultancy to local authorities in both Ireland and the UK for almost 9 years, I'm immune to the wastage at this stage. While there are some genuinely excellent people, a lot of the staff are useless, 10-5 with 2 hours worth of breaks, clock watching, term-timers / job-sharers drains on society.

Merging the councils might seem like the only sensible option but I'd honestly say the better option is to shut them down and start afresh with new regional councils. The good staff from the existing councils would find work (at more realistic salary levels some of the better ones would actually be due raises) and the others could compete against the rest of the live register for the positions in the new regional councils.

Sure, we'd still probably need the same number of staff to maintain the road network, local amenities etc. but there'd be great savings to be made in rationalising the HR departments, Finance teams etc. Add to that the reduced costs of software (less licenses required), consultancy (less sites to be upgraded or have custom work done = lower number of days = lower cost to exchequer), stronger purchasing power leading to better prices from suppliers, etc. etc. etc. and there's an absolute fortune to be saved in the area of local government.

Can't see it happening though, the unions would have a fit were anyone to try and apply common sense to the business model of our local authorities.

GetWithIt

The issue isn't with the Unions, it's about retaining power and influence.

The ability to push through planning, gerrymander, allocate a Higher Education grant (so you don't have to pay registration fees).

There are plenty of people who benefit from such a system and in Ireland we aspire to being one of those people rather than aspiring to have a fair and transparent system of local government.

The waste is by design, not by accident or incompetence.

You need to remove those functions from local government.

Lumbo

80 admin jobs are going in Sligo County Council. Probably be offered Vol Redundancy.

There's some good news before Christmas for our Private Sector posters.

Park Royal

Lumbo wrote: »

80 admin jobs are going in Sligo County Council. Probably be offered Vol Redundancy.

There's some good news before Christmas for our Private Sector posters.

Thats very sad news indeed , as I understand things its been flagged up for sometime..?


I recall getting a talk from a prominent member of Sligo County Council , after he had listened to pleadings from shop retailers about their rates and rents being hiked up , the retailers were advising they were close to closing down, his remark was .........."shops come and go"...he wasn't too concerned about shop jobs being lost......

bonzos

Sligo in general has to be the Irish capital of jobs(and expenses) for the boys.Tony McLoughlin TD shoe horned his daughter into the council dispite the fact that she never received a single vote in her life, questions are still being asked about Ray McSharrys nephew landing the role of head of engineering at sligo IT.Every week in the local paper I see county councillors who only purpose in life seems to be attending social events.....then of course we have one who on sick leave for the last few years from the HSE but still manages to "work" as a county councillor.What a circus at the taxpayers expense!

drunkmonkey

Park Royal wrote: »

Thats very sad news indeed , as I understand things its been flagged up for sometime..?


I recall getting a talk from a prominent member of Sligo County Council , after he had listened to pleadings from shop retailers about their rates and rents being hiked up , the retailers were advising they were close to closing down, his remark was .........."shops come and go"...he wasn't too concerned about shop jobs being lost......

County & Town Councils don't give a crap the sooner there all unemployed the better, let them go out an create some jobs and see how they get on, good riddance to those 80 and I hope many more public service pen pushing jobs are scrapped, public paid people don't give one crap about anyone in the private sector from my dealings with them so i've lost all care about their future. Were a nuisance and just another cash cow. Anytime you call them it's like your disturbing them.
I really hope the EU forces the Government hand and tidy's up this mess that is the public service.
I can't remember when a TD/Minister brought employment to my area while it's been decimated with Job Losses.
What's really wrong is we have a democracy where numpyts are appointed and elected to look after us voted in by other numptys. They should all be qualified individuals, Ming, Wallace etc it's a disgrace. Abolish Dail Eireann and all the associated baggage it it carries. The country is being run for public servants by public servants. There's no democracy at work.

FG, 100,000 jobs in 100 days, they failed, they lied, the bleed of the public continues. Time for them to get out.

Donadea Leo

[QUOTE/]I hope many more public service pen pushing jobs are scrapped, public paid people don't give one crap about anyone in the private sector from my dealings with them so i've lost all care about their future.

FG, 100,000 jobs in 100 days, they failed, they lied, the bleed of the public continues. Time for them to get out.[/QUOTE]


As a frontline public servant I get pretty sick of being landed into same category as my 300,000 public servant colleagues (actually there's more that's just the HSE) - I can tell you I do care about the people in the private sector most of my family and friends work in the private sector, I myself have worked for many years in the private sector. More so I not only care about the private sector workers but I also care about and for the vulnerable people in our society, the unemployed, the homeless, the children at risk, the elderly. It's about time we started decdiing what kind of society we want to live, what it will cost and what sacrifices we as a people are willing to make to make it happen.

I can understand frustation but it is not like people in public sector aren't equally frustrated - the public sector are making cost savings but from what I can see it seems that it is frontline services are being reduced and if anything we are becoming less efficient, the pen pushers have no reason to leave their jobs - what else could they do. Please do me a favour and stop describing us all as a collective.

Your point about Fine Gael is 100% accurate in my opinion - but what do we expect before the election - they told us consitently about their 5 point plan - we all could surely see there was no plan behind their plan, they may as well have said they were going to give us all 1 million euro.

donalg1

Jaysoose wrote: »

In fairness this work could have been done in the summer rather than causing maximum inconvenience for the people using the road. Its always funny how the public are the last people considered by councils etc when they actually decide to do some work, its always on their terms and the motive stems from protecting their own budgets.

People moan about the potholes then moan about the roadworks when they are fixing the potholes, its never going to be possible to please everyone all the time.

Plus if your Local Authority gets given a million quid in December and dont use it the Department wont give them as much the following year hence the reason the LA do roadworks in December. If the Department gave them the money earlier then obviously they would do the work earlier.

Jaysoose

donalg1 wrote: »

People moan about the potholes then moan about the roadworks when they are fixing the potholes, its never going to be possible to please everyone all the time.

Plus if your Local Authority gets given a million quid in December and dont use it the Department wont give them as much the following year hence the reason the LA do roadworks in December. If the Department gave them the money earlier then obviously they would do the work earlier.

So its moaning to expect the councils to maintain the roads and perform the work they are paid to do? Its easier to please people than you would think and all it takes is some common sense when it comes to working within your budgets and performing works when it impacts people the least.

What annoys people is the work is done at the last possible second to ensure that a council manager doesnt have to work off a different budget the following year. God forbid they would actually try and work with the public in mind rather than half assing a load of roadworks at the worst possible time of the year for all concerned.

charlemont

femur61 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, and the county councils need reviewing as well. Here in Kilkenny they started a couple of weeks ago some ridicoulous road works in order to use up budget before year end.

A quick example of why county councillors should be scrapped ....Kilkenny itself has two authorities, County Council and Borough Council, Now we all know Kilkenny is a large town by Irish standards so shouldn't the Borough council control the town but alas no, only 8,000 of the towns population of 23,000 is actually ran by the Borough Council, So it seems the county council want their cake and to eat it too, Why should the County Council have control of such a large amount of the town, Its the same in Cork and Limerick cities too. Local administration is a joke in Ireland.

Mr.Micro

charlemont wrote: »

A quick example of why county councillors should be scrapped ....Kilkenny itself has two authorities, County Council and Borough Council, Now we all know Kilkenny is a large town by Irish standards so shouldn't the Borough council control the town but alas no, only 8,000 of the towns population of 23,000 is actually ran by the Borough Council, So it seems the county council want their cake and to eat it too, Why should the County Council have control of such a large amount of the town, Its the same in Cork and Limerick cities too. Local administration is a joke in Ireland.

The amount of money that is wasted by CC s is a disgrace. There needs to a complete overhaul of this gravy train up and down the country. If the Government is happy now to plan a property tax for the future then it has to have the guts to demand cuts in the CC s and what exactly they do for the money given/ raised. Not to mention the purpose of the all powerful non accountable mystery figure called the County manager.

donalg1

Jaysoose wrote: »

So its moaning to expect the councils to maintain the roads and perform the work they are paid to do? Its easier to please people than you would think and all it takes is some common sense when it comes to working within your budgets and performing works when it impacts people the least.

What annoys people is the work is done at the last possible second to ensure that a council manager doesnt have to work off a different budget the following year. God forbid they would actually try and work with the public in mind rather than half assing a load of roadworks at the worst possible time of the year for all concerned.

Its moaning when you give out about the fact roadworks are ongoing when you have been moaning about the bad state of the roads all year. And when do you propose they do these roadworks I mean what time of the year would disrupt people less?

And say the Local Authority is given funding of €1m in December would you prefer they say no we dont want it as people will get annoyed if we do the work now so take it back. Or would you prefer the road to get fixed?

bonzos

The bottom line is that the only time the CC need us(the taxpayer) is every 4 years....and in between that its all about looking after the boys on their €30k+ pa(+expenses!!) in their part time jobs.

nice_guy80

the minute councillors got a wage, then everyone else in the system wanted more pay

it is a flawed sytem