Hurling Rankings 2011

KevIRL

Martin Brehney's hurling rankings 2011.

In todays Indo

1. Kilkenny
2. Tipp
3. Dublin
4. Waterford
5. Galway
6. Cork
7. Limerick
8. Offaly
9. Wexford
10. Clare
11. Antrim
12. Laois
13. Carlow
14. Westmeath

These ranking type things get overrated, particulary online. Champions are really all that matters. However it can be interesting to look at them during the quiet times. Hard to disagree with much of the above, altho at the lower end I'd have Westmeath ahead of Carlow. Think Limerick could have a decent rise up the rankings next season

The_Kew_Tour

I would have Limerick ahead of Cork at this moment.

Kojak

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would have Limerick ahead of Cork at this moment.

They (Limerick) should be ahead of Galway as well tbh.

Justin10

I would rate Limerick very highly too. Was impressed with them against Dublin in Thurles.

Great to see Dublin at 3, and 1 in Football.

Mountainlad

Rochey18 wrote: »

I would rate Limerick very highly too. Was impressed with them against Dublin in Thurles.

Great to see Dublin at 3, and 1 in Football.

Is it?

jive

Doesn't matter a toss until someone catches the big 2 imo

Royal Seahawk

jive wrote: »

Doesn't matter a toss until someone catches the big 2 imo

Exactly. It's Kilkenny and Tipp, the rest are just fighting for whatever scraps are left behind by these two.

bruschi

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

Exactly. It's Kilkenny and Tipp, the rest are just fighting for whatever scraps are left behind by these two.

big time. hence why people generally dont really give a crap where the teams are around the table. I could argue the toss about Wexford should be higher than Offaly, but really, is it worth it to try think we are the 8th or 9th best team? its top or nothing in hurling. Whatever about football and the debate it would generate, if you arent competetive in hurling, it shows, a lot.

blue note

bruschi wrote: »

big time. hence why people generally dont really give a crap where the teams are around the table. I could argue the toss about Wexford should be higher than Offaly, but really, is it worth it to try think we are the 8th or 9th best team? its top or nothing in hurling. Whatever about football and the debate it would generate, if you arent competetive in hurling, it shows, a lot.

It does matter that you're improving your position or not falling down the rankings. For Dublin to be ranked the third best team in the country from last year is great for them - it just shows the massive improvement that they've made.

bruschi

blue note wrote: »

It does matter that you're improving your position or not falling down the rankings. For Dublin to be ranked the third best team in the country from last year is great for them - it just shows the massive improvement that they've made.

ah yeah, but you know that you are improving, you dont need a pleb in the media to tell you it has been improving consitantly over the last few years. winning a league shows that. Publishing rankings and debating over them is a bit pointless though.

blue note

bruschi wrote: »

blue note wrote: »

It does matter that you're improving your position or not falling down the rankings. For Dublin to be ranked the third best team in the country from last year is great for them - it just shows the massive improvement that they've made.

ah yeah, but you know that you are improving, you dont need a pleb in the media to tell you it has been improving consitantly over the last few years. winning a league shows that. Publishing rankings and debating over them is a bit pointless though.

I'm certainly not suggesting that martin brehonys rankings are the difinitive ones, I'm just saying that rankings are worth considering. You might be happy that you have improved, but if the teams around you have improved more, then really you're further away than before.

bruschi

blue note wrote: »

I'm certainly not suggesting that martin brehonys rankings are the difinitive ones, I'm just saying that rankings are worth considering. You might be happy that you have improved, but if the teams around you have improved more, then really you're further away than before.

well being from Wexford, I think its safe to say we really are further away than before without improving!:pac:

thewildcat

most are spot on but i wouldn't have Limerick so hight what did they do
in 2011 not alot.

maybe in 2012 they might be dark horses to go up the table them along with offaly might come under the radar.

but ourselfs and tipp will still be the top 2 in 2012 with kilkenny cat's staying
at number 1

Fireball07

thewildcat wrote: »

most are spot on but i wouldn't have Limerick so hight what did they do
in 2011 not alot.

maybe in 2012 they might be dark horses to go up the table them along with offaly might come under the radar.

but ourselfs and tipp will still be the top 2 in 2012 with kilkenny cat's staying
at number 1

You wouldn't have Limerick 7th???


I'd have us above Galway and Cork...Limerick won division 2 of the league unbeaten which was all they could do.

Were a last-minute goal away from beating Waterford, I don't think anyone would say we're too far behind them. Then hammered Wexford and Antrim and arguably should have beaten Dublin- but nobody's going to complain- 3 sloppy first-half goals cost us.

Galway fell apart twice against Waterford and Dublin (two teams that Limerick were about as good as) and got to the same stage, so I'd have us ahead of them. And Cork are just a poor team really tbqh.

TheLynx

I feel the following is more representative of the past years performances of counties at hurling

1. Kilkenny
2. Tipp
3. Galway
4. Dublin
5. Cork
6. Clare
7. Limerick
8. Waterford
9. Wexford
10. Offaly
11. Antrim
12. Laois
13. Carlow
14. Westmeath

adrian522

TheLynx wrote: »

I feel the following is more representative of the past years performances of counties at hurling

1. Kilkenny
2. Tipp
3. Galway
4. Dublin
5. Cork
6. Clare
7. Limerick
8. Waterford
9. Wexford
10. Offaly
11. Antrim
12. Laois
13. Carlow
14. Westmeath

Why are Galway 3rd?

TheLynx

Galway had a good season, beating Offaly, reaching a leinster semi final, and beating Clare and Cork

adrian522

Above Dublin who won the league, reached the Leinster final (beating Galway in the process), and reached the all Ireland semi final (something Galway last managed 6 years ago).

Also you are being very harsh on Waterford, and i have no comprehension how Clare are above limerick.

TheLynx

I do not consider the league of value to my rankings, Galway performed superior to Dublin in the championship, Galway have the potential to defeat Kilkenny, something Dublin will never manage. Waterford rode their luck this year, did not achieve anything of note, Clare hurling is developing in a good direction

adrian522

I hate to keep harping on about this but Dublin looked a lot more impressive than Galway when they met in the championship, while Galway did nothing of note all year (unless you consider beating Cork of note).

bruschi

TheLynx wrote: »

I do not consider the league of value to my rankings, Galway performed superior to Dublin in the championship, Galway have the potential to defeat Kilkenny, something Dublin will never manage. Waterford rode their luck this year, did not achieve anything of note, Clare hurling is developing in a good direction

this is the only reason these rankings get any sort of debate, when someone puts forward absolutley ridiculous positions!

You dont take the league into account? Waterford beat Limerick and Galway, got further in the championship, but yet are below them? great stuff.:pac:

TheLynx

I take into consideration all competitions that have meaning, from minor to senior, club to intercounty and Galway are superior to all but Kilkenny and Tipperary

bruschi

TheLynx wrote: »

I take into consideration all competitions that have meaning, from minor to senior, club to intercounty and Galway are superior to all but Kilkenny and Tipperary

so when compiling the senior championship rankings, you take minor games into account, but not league games! nice one.

Good to see you dont discount the club championship either. It would lend to your Galway argument too, as they get to the AI semi final at the very least every year.

your good for a laugh if nothing else anyway Lynx.:pac:

jive

TheLynx wrote: »

Galway had a good season, beating Offaly, reaching a leinster semi final, and beating Clare and Cork

Waterford beat Galway (by like 10 points??) in the AI quarters and got to a munster final.

TheLynx wrote: »

I do not consider the league of value to my rankings, Galway performed superior to Dublin in the championship, Galway have the potential to defeat Kilkenny, something Dublin will never manage. Waterford rode their luck this year, did not achieve anything of note, Clare hurling is developing in a good direction

So Galway had a good season (leinster semi, all ireland quarters) but Waterford didn't achieve anything of note (munster final, all ireland semis)?



Your logic is horribly flawed.

One might assume you have a soft spot for Galway with putting them 3rd after they had a crap year which I'm sure they themselves would admit. All I hear about Galway is potential every year and every year they fail to deliver, last year in particular. Obviously the rankings have to go 1/2 KK/Tipp and then 3/4 Dublin/Waterford. Anyone else in the top4 based on last year is laughable, IMO. Putting Waterford at #8 suggests that you are probably from Galway and sore because they hammered ye come crunch time.

Clareman

I'd love to have Clare at 6, I really really would, but I think 10th is about right, even though they could be dropped a bit more

TheLynx

jive wrote: »

Waterford beat Galway (by like 10 points??) in the AI quarters and got to a munster final.

Tipperary beat Clare by 3 goals, Galway beat Clare by 4 goals 5 points, difference of a goal and 5 point between winning margins

Applying my logic, Tipperary beat by Waterford by 7 goals, so in theory Galway would beat a Waterford team by 8 goals 5 points, that is why they recieve a higher ranking

bruschi

TheLynx wrote: »

Tipperary beat Clare by 3 goals, Galway beat Clare by 4 goals 5 points, difference of a goal and 5 point between winning margins

Applying my logic, Tipperary beat by Waterford by 7 goals, so in theory Galway would beat a Waterford team by 8 goals 5 points, that is why they recieve a higher ranking

ah yes, but by that logic, Kilkenny beat Wexford by 11 points, and then Kilkenny beat Dublin by 11 points, so Wexford are the same. Dublin beat Limerick by 14, so in theory, Wexford are 14 points better than Limerick. Now Limerick only lost to Waterford by 1 point, so we would be better than them too. And our club team Oulart go to the Leinster final, further than Dublin. So realistically, in theory, Wexford should be ranked third on this list.

I think I'll email Martin Brehany and tell him his rankings are way off.

randd1

TheLynx wrote: »

Tipperary beat Clare by 3 goals, Galway beat Clare by 4 goals 5 points, difference of a goal and 5 point between winning margins

Applying my logic, Tipperary beat by Waterford by 7 goals, so in theory Galway would beat a Waterford team by 8 goals 5 points, that is why they recieve a higher ranking

Yet Waterford somehow managed to defy your theory and beat Galway out the gate. As did Dublin incidentally. Unimaginable really. Perhaps your theory may be a slight bit flawed. Or biased.

Now in the interest of arguing a point, I have a different theory.

Waterford lost two games, against the Munster champions and the eventual All-Ireland champions. Dublin (league champions) lost twice also, to the Leinster/All-Ireland champions and the Munster champions/All-Ireland finalists. Dublin and Waterford both contested provincial finals/All-Ireland semi finals, Galway did not.

Galway, having lost (ineptly and meekly) to both Dublin and Waterford, would therefore be at most the fifth best team this year, if as you say, we are going only on championship form.

Evil_Clown

Paddy Power rankings for perspective.....

All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2012
Kilkenny 11/8
Tipperary 6/4
Dublin 10/1
Galway 10/1
Cork 10/1
Waterford 22/1
Limerick 25/1
Clare 66/1
Offaly 125/1
Wexford 200/1
Antrim 375/1
Carlow 500/1

adrian522

It's funny how the bookies seem to always place the all Ireland champions as favourites for the following year. It's happened for at least the last 7 years.

TheLynx

Galway rated above Waterford by Paddy Power seems to verify my rankings as accurate

premierstone

TheLynx wrote: »

Tipperary beat Clare by 3 goals, Galway beat Clare by 4 goals 5 points, difference of a goal and 5 point between winning margins

Applying my logic, Tipperary beat by Waterford by 7 goals, so in theory Galway would beat a Waterford team by 8 goals 5 points, that is why they recieve a higher ranking

lol

Kojak

TheLynx wrote: »

Tipperary beat Clare by 3 goals, Galway beat Clare by 4 goals 5 points, difference of a goal and 5 point between winning margins

Applying my logic, Tipperary beat by Waterford by 7 goals, so in theory Galway would beat a Waterford team by 8 goals 5 points, that is why they recieve a higher ranking

That makes absolutly no sense whatsoever.

TheLynx

How can it not make sense?

Galway simply outperformed Waterford and are the third best county in Ireland based on last year

antoobrien

Jayus lads and lassies can't ye see that TheLynx is nothing but a troll and getting a rise out of everyone.

Having been at more than half the Galway matches all year they were no better than 5th.

adrian522

TheLynx wrote: »

How can it not make sense?

Galway simply outperformed Waterford and are the third best county in Ireland based on last year

How do you reconcile the beatings they took from Waterford and Dublin yet you rank them above both of those counties.

By your logic on both teams results v Clare you should rank them above Tipperary.

Mountainlad

TheLynx wrote: »

Tipperary beat Clare by 3 goals, Galway beat Clare by 4 goals 5 points, difference of a goal and 5 point between winning margins

Applying my logic, Tipperary beat by Waterford by 7 goals, so in theory Galway would beat a Waterford team by 8 goals 5 points, that is why they recieve a higher ranking

For such an obvious sh*t stirrer, your getting a fair reaction I'll give ya that!

Don't worry lads, he also factored into it that season he played on the Gaelic Games Hurling Playstation Game (sure it's more relevant than the league is it not?)! Galway are quality on it like

Fireball07

Mountainlad wrote: »

For such an obvious sh*t stirrer, your getting a fair reaction I'll give ya that!

Don't worry lads, he also factored into it that season he played on the Gaelic Games Hurling Playstation Game (sure it's more relevant than the league is it not?)! Galway are quality on it like

Too true, Joe Canning is three times as good as the next best hurler in Ireland. Scores an average of 8-20 a game. Who needs the league when you've got the oul playstation.

eroo

I'd go with..

1. KK
2. Tipp
3. Dublin/ Waterford
4. Limerick
5. Galway
6. Cork
7. Offaly
8. Wexford
9. Clare
10. Antrim
11. Carlow
12. Westmeath
13. Laois

Sanity_Saviour

Fireball07 wrote: »

Mountainlad wrote: »

For such an obvious sh*t stirrer, your getting a fair reaction I'll give ya that!

Don't worry lads, he also factored into it that season he played on the Gaelic Games Hurling Playstation Game (sure it's more relevant than the league is it not?)! Galway are quality on it like

Too true, Joe Canning is three times as good as the next best hurler in Ireland. Scores an average of 8-20 a game. Who needs the league when you've got the oul playstation.

ah here lads i won the all-ireland with warwickshire how are they not no.1?? madness

eroo

eroo wrote: »

I'd go with..

1. KK
2. Tipp
3. Dublin/ Waterford
4. Limerick
5. Galway
6. Cork
7. Offaly
8. Wexford
9. Clare
10. Antrim
11. Carlow
12. Westmeath
13. Laois

I don't think amalgamations are allowed in inter-county.

Nonoperational

For me I'd have Kilkenny and Tipp 1 and 2, after that it's really impossible to separate the rest. On their day any one could beat anyone else.

MCannon77

Clareman wrote: »

I'd love to have Clare at 6, I really really would, but I think 10th is about right, even though they could be dropped a bit more

ah no...they do deserve 10th....I would be quietly optimistic about a decent showing this year though, fingers crossed!!!

blue note

gilberto_eire wrote: »

eroo wrote: »

I'd go with..

1. KK
2. Tipp
3. Dublin/ Waterford
4. Limerick
5. Galway
6. Cork
7. Offaly
8. Wexford
9. Clare
10. Antrim
11. Carlow
12. Westmeath
13. Laois

I don't think amalgamations are allowed in inter-county.

Then how do Dublin get away with it?

teednab-el

how are Cork rated 10/1 in the bookies alongside Galway for 2012? Are they expecting miracles from JBM or what?

Kojak

teednab-el wrote: »

how are Cork rated 10/1 in the bookies alongside Galway for 2012? Are they expecting miracles from JBM or what?

No, its just the same shíte that goes with Galway every year. Its more the name of the county of Cork giving them that price than anything else. Frankly, the odds are being kind to galway as well. The pick of the 2 of them at the moment wouldn't win an AI, yet because of the "pedigree and history" of Cork and the "strong underage talent" in Galway, people will believe they have a good chance of doing something and start to put money on them.

The_Kew_Tour

teednab-el wrote: »

how are Cork rated 10/1 in the bookies alongside Galway for 2012? Are they expecting miracles from JBM or what?

100/1 would be about right.

No chance of winning AI in 2012.

Maybe just maybe in 3-4 years time we may get back some sort of success.

keane2097

I'll take some of that 100/1 if anyone's laying it?

teednab-el

Kojak wrote: »

No, its just the same shíte that goes with Galway every year. Its more the name of the county of Cork giving them that price than anything else. Frankly, the odds are being kind to galway as well. The pick of the 2 of them at the moment wouldn't win an AI, yet because of the "pedigree and history" of Cork and the "strong underage talent" in Galway, people will believe they have a good chance of doing something and start to put money on them.

Still I reckon Cork will win an All Ireland before Galway will. Great Galway teams somehow have found it difficult to win All Irelands.

teednab-el

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

100/1 would be about right.

No chance of winning AI in 2012.

Maybe just maybe in 3-4 years time we may get back some sort of success.

The only chance we have is if some of the top teams pull out of the competition.

teednab-el

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

100/1 would be about right.

No chance of winning AI in 2012.

Maybe just maybe in 3-4 years time we may get back some sort of success.

Funny enough Cork came from nothing in 1996 and won All Ireland in 1999. In 2001 and 2002 we weren't up to much and made it back into All Ireland Final in 2003. Even if we won the Munster Championship this year it will be seen as success.