Shoulder Exercise

busyliving

Hey all

Was chatting to a mate the other day and he told me that he was in the gym the other day and was shown a new exercise...

So here it is,
Lateral Raise x7
Front Dumbbell Raise x7
Rear Delt Raise x7
Arny Press x7

No rest between these exercise, he said it was good and he really like it was working his shoulders, but I'd like some feedback from the people here before i change my program, if its good, great but I'm a little unsure

john t

nothing wrong with it all good shoulder exercices hitting all heads, but no need too do it every week, mayb monthly... you could use same movements and take a rest between sets and have good workout or use barbell over dumbell press ..

jive

for gaining mass? Wouldn't recommend tbh. The rewards will be better if you start off with a barbell or dumb bell press then finish with lateral / front / rear. If you wanna work like above then I'd do drop sets for everything but the press. I don't think it's necessary though. Won't hurt to try it for a few weeks anyway and see how it goes.

Satanta

I seen this somewhere before called the Circuit of 28, but I cant find it now when I search. I added this circuit into my shoulder days for a while after I did my main lifts and mainly just for a burnout. Something like a 7.5Kg dumbell and 2 sets were plenty for hurt.

Vomit

In my opinion, front raises are not necessary, and will increase the risk of injury.

john_cappa

Vomit wrote: »

In my opinion, front raises are not necessary, and will increase the risk of injury.

how do they increase chances of injury?

Satanta

This circuit is carried out with really low weight. You would need to be a fool in order to injure yourself

Satanta

Actually.... this is the one I was thinking of... which is slightly different to the one you described

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj7Z1FTRMww

jive

john_cappa wrote: »

how do they increase chances of injury?

probably mistook them for upright rows which are fairly shít

Brian?

busyliving wrote: »

So here it is,
Lateral Raise x7
Front Dumbbell Raise x7
Rear Delt Raise x7
Arny Press x7

Feck that ted, max effort pressing once a week and repeat effort pressing once a week.

You can throw in some raises if you want, but it's heavy pressing that will add mass to your shoulders better than anything else. Also, 99% of people I see doing lateral and front raises are doing them arseways anyway.

Brian?

jive wrote: »

probably mistook them for upright rows which are fairly shít

Front and lateral raises do present an increased risk of shoulder injury AFAIK, I will need to look that up. It's something to do with the movement of the shoulder joint, tis unnatural in both those excercises. I currently have nothing to back this up with.

Hanley

briankeating wrote: »

Front and lateral raises do present an increased risk of shoulder injury AFAIK, I will need to look that up. It's something to do with the movement of the shoulder joint, tis unnatural in both those excercises. I currently have nothing to back this up with.

Both require pretty internally rotated shoulders at the end range of the movement so there could potentially be impingement issues.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Both require pretty internally rotated shoulders at the end range of the movement so there could potentially be impingement issues.

Yeah, I think that's what I was getting at. I seem to remember that you shouldn't raise the weight above shoulder height for front raises and maybe for lateral raises.

It goes back to what I was saying earlier, 99% of people I see doing them are doing them wrong. So not only are they an injury risk because of this, they are a waste of time.

Shoulder prehab+upper back work+ heavy pressing= winner.

john_cappa

Full range of motion of lateral raises is better than just shoulder level. I have a link to a thread discussing this recently. Will post when i am on computer not phone. Problem with front and lateral raises is peolpe use poor form with too much weight..

My opinion on the above program. If your goal is mass or strength then its crap. More like cardio IMO.

Transform

briankeating wrote: »

Feck that ted, max effort pressing once a week and repeat effort pressing once a week.

You can throw in some raises if you want, but it's heavy pressing that will add mass to your shoulders better than anything else. Also, 99% of people I see doing lateral and front raises are doing them arseways anyway.

agreed - grab a bar, put it in a front rack position and press it over head, put a little more weight on if you can next time and repeat.

Foam rolling the beeeejesus out of your lats and getting in a lacrosse ball into the front and rear of the shoulders can help lots with having a more solid overhead position.

jive

briankeating wrote: »

Front and lateral raises do present an increased risk of shoulder injury AFAIK, I will need to look that up. It's something to do with the movement of the shoulder joint, tis unnatural in both those excercises. I currently have nothing to back this up with.

Cool, didn't know that. I know that upright rows are awful injury wise though and they even feel awful to do (don't do them anymore). I've never had any bad experiences with lateral or front raises though although seeing other people doing them in the gym I can see why they do cause problems (awful phucking form).

Best excercise in my experience is standing military press with barbell / seated with dumb bells

Vomit

Yes, I heard the same thing about front raises, but I was really just speaking from my own experience of feeling joint pain. Maybe I was using too much weight, but still I'd rather just leave them out.

Barry.Oglesby

Hanley wrote: »

briankeating wrote: »

Front and lateral raises do present an increased risk of shoulder injury AFAIK, I will need to look that up. It's something to do with the movement of the shoulder joint, tis unnatural in both those excercises. I currently have nothing to back this up with.

Both require pretty internally rotated shoulders at the end range of the movement so there could potentially be impingement issues.

They'd probably be okay if it wasn't fit the fact that they're generally used in bodybuilding routines which involve copious amounts of them each session.

busyliving

Cheers for the feedback guy, I probably should have mentioned...

The weight used isn't supposed to high, like my mate can do each of those exercises with like 14kg weights fairly handy, but when he does these he uses like 6/8kg weights, something to do with just "pumping the Muscles"...whatever that means

Brian?

busyliving wrote: »

Cheers for the feedback guy, I probably should have mentioned...

The weight used isn't supposed to high, like my mate can do each of those exercises with like 14kg weights fairly handy, but when he does these he uses like 6/8kg weights, something to do with just "pumping the Muscles"...whatever that means

Forget about "the pump". If you want bigger shoulders get a stronger press.

Did mention heavy pressing enough yet?

busyliving

Cheers for the feedbacks guys...Was thinking about starting a new thread but don't want to be flooding the forum with my ramblings and questions

Just trying to get my workout program tied down by the new year...

And I'd like to hear your feedback;
So Monday is Shoulder & Arms Day

Seated Hammer Curl x5 sets
Seated Bicep Curl x5 sets
Tricep Kickbacks x5 sets
21's x1 set
Front Dumbbell Raises x5 sets
Shoulder Press x5 sets
Shrugs x5 sets
Shoulder Exercise(the one in my OP) x1 set

Is that doing too much in one session? Should I do Shrugs as part of my chest and back days, or keep them with my shoulder and arms day?

Cheers for all your help and advice

john_cappa

Whats your whole split?

The above IMO is pointless. If i was ever to do a shoulders and arms day then i would do...

Seated dumbell or standng barbell press 4 or 5 working sets
Close grip bench 4 or 5 working sets
Pull ups 4 or 5 sets

Forget your seat curls, 21s, tricep kick backs, front raises etc. If you must do them do them last when you have the above three exercises of your work out done.

Front raises and tricep kick backs wont make you strog or make you grow.

busyliving

john_cappa wrote: »

Whats your whole split?

The above IMO is pointless. If i was ever to do a shoulders and arms day then i would do...

Seated dumbell or standng barbell press 4 or 5 working sets
Close grip bench 4 or 5 working sets
Pull ups 4 or 5 sets

Forget your seat curls, 21s, tricep kick backs, front raises etc. If you must do them do them last when you have the above three exercises of your work out done.

Front raises and tricep kick backs wont make you strog or make you grow.

Monday - Shoulders & Arms
Wednesday - Legs & Abs
Friday - Backs & Chest

TGJD

I agree with john cappa's suggestion. However I would do 3 sets of 6-8 reps standing barbell curls and a set of standing hammer curls for bis instead of the pull up. This is a personal thing, I've never found that pull ups gave me any arm growth but some people get sufficient stimulation from them, so to each their own. I wouldnt do shrugs at all, you will build much bigger traps by deadlifting heavy. If you must do them It doesnt really make a whole lot of difference which day you do them on, shoulders or back. Whenever you can easily fit them in.

Gabbah

I like to focus on the basics in the beginning. When you can rep out a set of 10 with 150 lbs something with the standing military press you will have decent shoulders.

john_cappa

briankeating wrote: »

Yeah, I think that's what I was getting at. I seem to remember that you shouldn't raise the weight above shoulder height for front raises and maybe for lateral raises.

It goes back to what I was saying earlier, 99% of people I see doing them are doing them wrong. So not only are they an injury risk because of this, they are a waste of time.

Shoulder prehab+upper back work+ heavy pressing= winner.

john_cappa wrote: »

Full range of motion of lateral raises is better than just shoulder level. I have a link to a thread discussing this recently. Will post when i am on computer not phone. Problem with front and lateral raises is peolpe use poor form with too much weight..

My opinion on the above program. If your goal is mass or strength then its crap. More like cardio IMO.

Some interesting discussion on height of lateral raises in below thread.

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/lat-delt-raises-m4629063.aspx

Post 26 has a vid which demonstrates full range of motion.