What speed to drive at... Icy Roads!

sparkle_23

On my way to town I have a travel for about 5mins along a road which can be quite icy in patches. Every day this week on my way to work or whatever I've seen a car smashed up at the side of the road or overturned in the ditch...:eek::eek: and it freaks the hell out of me!! At work I hear about people complaining about drivers going too slow and getting stuck trying to go up hills! So what speed am I meant to be driving at? Hate the winter

I changed my car during the Summer and I now have ABS... Am I meant to use the brakes differently than I would in a car without ABS... if that makes sense! I know these questions are silly but no way is my car ending up in any ditch!!

EPM

Drive at a speed where you feel you are in control of your vehicle. Don't even think about what the fceker behind or in front is up to.

Doesn't matter if you do 5 or 50kph.

.... if the road is icey crawling along could be too fast.

dgt

Drive at a speed your comfortable with. Don't mind the rest of us spouting about how good we can handle the conditions

Although nothing is more satisfying than embarrassing a 4x4 with a rusty fiesta :pac:

colm_mcm

I'd normally drive in a low enough gear so that letting off the accelerator pedal slows the car down without having to use the brakes.

dahamsta

No-one can tell you what speed to go at because it depends on the road, the conditions, the car, traffic, etc. In general just try to keep a nice, gentle, even pace going, and try to avoid stopping and starting as those are the occasions when you're more likely to lose control. This is a simple mistake a huge proportion of drivers make -- even in good weather, stopping and starting causes bad traffic patterns, which in turn cause crashes.

Don't try to adjust your driving for ABS, let the technology do the work for you.

vectra

The thing is. You must be doing it right.. You have not had any of those accidents others are talking about.. Just be careful and never mind the clowns trying to push you on.
OH
and as above, Stay in a gear low enough to let the engine do the slowing once you let off the accelerator.

Norwayviking

*Sparkle* wrote: »

On my way to town I have a travel for about 5mins along a road which can be quite icy in patches. Every day this week on my way to work or whatever I've seen a car smashed up at the side of the road or overturned in the ditch...:eek::eek: and it freaks the hell out of me!! At work I hear about people complaining about drivers going too slow and getting stuck trying to go up hills! So what speed am I meant to be driving at? Hate the winter

I changed my car during the Summer and I now have ABS... Am I meant to use the brakes differently than I would in a car without ABS... if that makes sense! I know these questions are silly but no way is my car ending up in any ditch!!

Get 4 of these.
Atleast you will get more roadgrip,and feel safer on the road.

280special

You can have a smack at 10mph ! I know, I pranged a car on black ice at that speed, scared the bejesus out of me !

The speed to drive at is the safest speed given the conditions, which is not necessarily the speed you feel confortable at !

And watch out for those feckin eejets in their 4x4 jeeps, they tend to have even less grip that us mere mortals, and dont know it untill they end up doing an unintended 180 deg. turn !!

.....high gear and low speed is the convention for driving on icey conditions, that's how snow mode in autos work. Of course you are supposed to be in control to the extent that you don't need much braking effort to slow down.

colm_mcm

That's just to avoid wheels spinning on acceleration or kick down


I'd go for a low gear for engine braking, slipping on acceleration is easier to correct than slipping on braking.

sparkle_23

I've seen 2 4x4's upside down in the ditch and one smashed into a barrier :eek: Guess these people are going way too fast.

john t

drive at a speed and in your comfort zone, if idiots pass you let them go and focus on your driving...

JJJJNR

Winter tire provide very lttle grip on ice a bit more than summers but only 10% so take it handy!

bazz26

*Sparkle* wrote: »

I've seen 2 4x4's upside down in the ditch and one smashed into a barrier :eek: Guess these people are going way too fast.

That and they probably were overconfident thinking they were invincible driving a 4x4. Even 4wd can be useless if you hit a patch of black ice.

Norwayviking

JJJJNR wrote: »

Winter tire provide very lttle grip on ice a bit more than summers but only 10% so take it handy!

That depends on what tyres you use,and how thick the ice is.;)
combination snow and ice makes the worst conditions.:eek:

C4Kid

Having watched alot of Ice Road truckers episodes over the years it was educational at times on driving in cold conditions, well I thought so anyway:D

The principles of high gears,engine braking etc are the same for both cars and trucks alike.

maxfresh

bazz26 wrote: »

That and they probably were overconfident thinking they were invincible driving a 4x4. Even 4wd can be useless if you hit a patch of black ice.

Sure most of them would have them in 2 wheel drive mode anyway

ArphaRima

It doesnt matter whether its footbrake, engine brake or handbrake; if the grip is not there you will not decelerate. Same applies to turning at any speed...
Any force involving the tyres has its effectiveness severely decreased.

Also ABS is LESS effective in icy conditions. It releases when wheels lock. On ice that's all they are going to do. A locked wheel brakes better than a rolling one when there is almost zero grip..

There is no defineable safe speed. Drive to the conditions.

JP 1800

*Sparkle* wrote: »

I've seen 2 4x4's upside down in the ditch and one smashed into a barrier :eek: Guess these people are going way too fast.

These 4X4 drivers forget that all cars brake on 4 wheels so they have no advantage when it comes to stopping, the only advantage they have is when moving off, but due to their relatively high centre of gravity they are more unstable.

tossy

JJJJNR wrote: »

Winter tire provide very lttle grip on ice a bit more than summers but only 10% so take it handy!

Nonsense,thats some 10% right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

LOTTOWINNER

When the road is really icy, I think "pretending" that you don't have brakes is a good policy, that way you must predict the possible hazards ahead, this is made much easier if you are driving on a road that you are familiar with.

JJJJNR

tossy wrote: »

Nonsense,thats some 10% right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

Thats breaking distance, I'll stand by what I said with regards to ice, in real driving circumstances where you need to go around corners etc and not drive in straight lines like they do in the U.S.A.

mickey mac

I can drive in any road conditions, at whatever speed I want, cause I’m the best driver in Ireland, I also have an encyclopaedic knowledge of breaking distances and tyre performance, so OP, only listen to my advice and nobody else’s!
And my advice to you is, drive at whatever speed you are comfortable with, the slower the better. Ignore cars behind you, but keep a close eye on the traffic ahead, avoid using your brakes and try to anticipate the road ahead, if possible maintain a steady speed, avoiding sudden accelerating or decelerating.

deadlast

Drive at a speed you're completely comfortable with but IF you can, pull in and let the queue behind you pass once in a while...i really appreciate when folks do that!

A-Trak

JJJJNR wrote: »

Thats breaking distance, I'll stand by what I said with regards to ice, in real driving circumstances where you need to go around corners etc and not drive in straight lines like they do in the U.S.A.

Ehmm you didn't watch all of that video did you?
Especially the last segment.

Wolverine_1999

Shocking but true that people have to ask this question. Just goes to show the atrocious so called "Driving Test" that we have in this country..

I've driven in 10 inches of snow but also on an inch of ice, and both situations call for completely different driving styles. If you don't make progress in one... you will get stuck, and going too fast in the other will put you in the ditch.

It's all about getting to know the limits of your car and "feeling" how the car responds.. if that makes sense. Of course this would never be taught over here! It's suicide on the roads over winter (just like every other time of the year )

tossy

JJJJNR wrote: »

Thats breaking distance, I'll stand by what I said with regards to ice, in real driving circumstances where you need to go around corners etc and not drive in straight lines like they do in the U.S.A.

Try watching all the video and not turn it off after watching a few minutes and deciding you know everything

A-Trak wrote: »

Ehmm you didn't watch all of that video did you?
Especially the last segment.

exactly.

colm_mcm

fluffer wrote: »

It doesnt matter whether its footbrake, engine brake or handbrake; if the grip is not there you will not decelerate. Same applies to turning at any speed...
Any force involving the tyres has its effectiveness severely decreased.

Also ABS is LESS effective in icy conditions. It releases when wheels lock. On ice that's all they are going to do. A locked wheel brakes better than a rolling one when there is almost zero grip..

There is no defineable safe speed. Drive to the conditions.

So you're saying wheels will lock up on engine braking?

fluffer

fluffer wrote: »

It doesnt matter whether its footbrake, engine brake or handbrake; if the grip is not there you will not decelerate. ..............

Indeed

paddyland

It's the same as learning any driving really. If you aren't willing to go out somewhere quiet with someone experienced, and LEARN how to do it properly, then you shouldn't be bloody out at all. Get off the road and out of everyone else's way.

Educate yourself properly BEFORE you go out on your own. And not on an internet forum!

HAMMERCURRENT

paddyland wrote: »

It's the same as learning any driving really. If you aren't willing to go out somewhere quiet with someone experienced, and LEARN how to do it properly, then you shouldn't be bloody out at all. Get off the road and out of everyone else's way.

Educate yourself properly BEFORE you go out on your own. And not on an internet forum!

I completely agree with this, I am also a technically gifted driver, with more than 70 years of accident free driving in Antarctica, I also worked on the TV program Ice road Trucker, rescuing stranded drivers and towing their trucks back to base.
So your’re right, as soon as the temperature drop below zero, only myself and yourself should be allowed on the roads, 300 penalty points to anyone else who dares to drive.

b318isp

colm_mcm wrote: »

So you're saying wheels will lock up on engine braking?

If there is not enough grip, the engine can brake the wheels so that they end up rotating slower (than they would normally at that speed). Heel and toeing helps prevent this as does avoiding decelerating rapidly from high revs.

Rear wheel drive cars suffer a bit more due to weight transfer from the rear axle during braking.

paddyland

HAMMERCURRENT wrote: »

I completely agree with this, I am also a technically gifted driver, with more than 70 years of accident free driving in Antarctica, I also worked on the TV program Ice road Trucker, rescuing stranded drivers and towing their trucks back to base.
So your’re right, as soon as the temperature drop below zero, only myself and yourself should be allowed on the roads, 300 penalty points to anyone else who dares to drive.

Were you really? I must know you so, I was there too, from 2007-2008. Small world!

JJJJNR

tossy wrote: »

Try watching all the video and not turn it off after watching a few minutes and deciding you know everything



exactly.

Ok so in the video (shot in doors on an ice rink, not exactly a good representation of real road conditions) they expect you to be driving everywhere at 10 mph ?really?

I have top grade winter tyres on my car (conti's and Bridgestone) and my car still slides on the roads when they are icy not as much as they used to with summers but they are not a magic bullet fix for all winter conditions.

iphone4g

tossy wrote: »

Nonsense,thats some 10% right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

Something wrong about that video,he is on about anti lock brakes in the brake test but the wheels are locked up before the cars stop

pcardin

EPM wrote: »

Drive at a speed where you feel you are in control of your vehicle. Don't even think about what the fceker behind or in front is up to.

Doesn't matter if you do 5 or 50kph.

:eek::eek:

Yes, just let the others know which road it is and what time are you taking that road so fcekers can avoid you. Better advertise your driving shedule in your local newspaper :pac:

stevenmu

b318isp wrote: »

Rear wheel drive cars suffer a bit more due to weight transfer from the rear axle during braking.

Indeed, I had the back end snap out a few times going down a hill last year. I'm not 100% sure but thinking about it after I figured that I probably backed off too much and engine braking was causing my rear wheels to lock, and I was probably putting in the clutch automatically as I tried to recover, and then letting it out again when I had causing the back wheels to go again.

In that situation again, I'd either keep the clutch in or shift to neutral and just ride the brakes gently the whole way down.

stevenmu

*Sparkle* wrote: »

I changed my car during the Summer and I now have ABS... Am I meant to use the brakes differently than I would in a car without ABS... if that makes sense! I know these questions are silly but no way is my car ending up in any ditch!!

Without ABS, if you are braking and the wheels lock up you will slide straight and have no steering. You have to back of on the brakes to get any control back.

With ABS, the wheels shouldn't lock so you can keep steering and keep braking to slow down. You can keep your foot firmly planted on the brake pedal and still manouvre to avoid an obstacle. On snow/ice it's effectiveness is reduced a lot, but it's still far better at regaining control than a human would be.

You should be aware that when ABS kicks in the brake pedal seems to push back against you, and it feels and sounds like you have gravel trapped in your brake pads. The natural reaction to this is to take your foot off the brakes, but the correct thing to do (assuming that you still need to slow down) is to keep your foot firmly pressed down.

but43r

JJJJNR wrote: »

Ok so in the video (shot in doors on an ice rink, not exactly a good representation of real road conditions) they expect you to be driving everywhere at 10 mph ?really?

I have top grade winter tyres on my car (conti's and Bridgestone) and my car still slides on the roads when they are icy not as much as they used to with summers but they are not a magic bullet fix for all winter conditions.

You don't have a top grade winter tire with studs then. I have driven on pure ice (+ degrees and rain during the day and frost during the night) and doing 60 mph. Proper winter tires really do make HUGE difference. Of course, the grip is not the same as driving in summer and your driving style has to be adopted for driving on snow and ice.
Although in Ireland studded winter tires would be an overkill. They are louder and generally not recommended for driving on tarmac.

b318isp

stevenmu wrote: »

Indeed, I had the back end snap out a few times going down a hill last year. I'm not 100% sure but thinking about it after I figured that I probably backed off too much and engine braking was causing my rear wheels to lock, and I was probably putting in the clutch automatically as I tried to recover, and then letting it out again when I had causing the back wheels to go again.

In that situation again, I'd either keep the clutch in or shift to neutral and just ride the brakes gently the whole way down.

The wheels don't quite lock, as the engine is still turning them. Your suggestions make sense. You could also use 3rd or 4th gear, and learning heel and toe will help.

Brings back memories of track days in Mondello - my brother kept getting his BMW crossed up on entry into corners, until I pointed out to him that he was popping the clutch up in 2nd while braking hard, causing the back end to come loose. He started heel and toeing from then on.

lar203

i have a ford fiesta that i got snow tyres put on ,i allso have a 4 wheel drive jeep which do you think is better in the snow . o the tyres on the jeep are not the best

b318isp

JJJJNR wrote: »

I have top grade winter tyres on my car (conti's and Bridgestone) and my car still slides on the roads when they are icy not as much as they used to with summers but they are not a magic bullet fix for all winter conditions.

That's a better comment!

My experience is that they are progressively better as temperatures lower. When the weather was warmer a few weeks ago, they were worse than my summer tyres. With frost and light snow this week, they were a significant order of magnitude better, but certainly not a magic cure for poor conditions.

tossy

JJJJNR wrote: »

I have top grade winter tyres on my car (conti's and Bridgestone) and my car still slides on the roads when they are icy not as much as they used to with summers but they are not a magic bullet fix for all winter conditions.

I never said the were a magic bullet fix for all winter conditions.i just found your 10% figure laughable as i do with most statistics pulled out of the air.

I too have 'top grade' winter tyres on my car and the difference on icey roads is about 50% (sure why not) and on snow covered roads be it fresh or compacted the difference is 100%

-Corkie-

Dont slack her till ya wrack her...

corktina

just beat me... drive as fast as you can without crashing was what I was going to post

krissovo

Your driving style is far more important than the speed. Slow down in plenty of time for junctions/potential hazards and smooth steady steering. Any jerky actions and you will start to lose control.

JJJJNR

tossy wrote: »

I never said the were a magic bullet fix for all winter conditions.i just found your 10% figure laughable as i do with most statistics pulled out of the air.

I too have 'top grade' winter tyres on my car and the difference on icey roads is about 50% (sure why not) and on snow covered roads be it fresh or compacted the difference is 100%

Why can't you just accept I know more about this than you and move on. :pac:

cynder

Last xmas i was heading up to the ailwee caves and had a whoopsie on the road, went around a bend at 10kmph and glided across the road (thankfully no car was coming the other way) the car was going to hit a brick wall and a drop the other side so I over steered and went the other way and on my 3rd attempt i straightened the car (a verso). A nasty shock, i never braked, once the car went that was it, i was readying for an impact but it never happened. With 3 kids in the back wanting to see Santa i carried on, thankfully i only had that whoopsie in the 60km we travelled, the week before i traveled from dublin to Clare without incident and the roads were icy then.

When we got home from seeing Santa my 5 year old said 'dad, mom drove like a princess,the car was dancing on the road' at least he wasnt scared...

I ve dropped the kids off to school today and nothing happened, but to see all the tyre marks of cars that have gone up footpaths you can see a good few had whoopsies, there was a series of emergency services that past my place at 8.30am as well at least 2 fire engines and 2 ambulances and before that there was a crash on the outskirts of Ennis town on the Kilrush rd.

In my estate before i took the kids to school i tested the braking distance and how hard i could press the brakes before the car would skid, i got a good idea of road conditions from that, as our estate is lethal. I also did it when no other cars were around. I also started off in second gear rather than first so i would have better grip, kept it in a high gear all the time. used the gears and feathered the brakes to slow down (softly softly) allow plenty of space (stopping distance) beteen you and the car infront.

Vicxas

I go at a speed that i can make slow adjustments to my direction, caus you cant do sudden movements on icy roads.... or you end up upside down.

Norwayviking

JJJJNR wrote: »

Why can't you just accept I know more about this than you and move on. :pac:

Well i am not sure about your knowlegde beeing the best when it comes to wintertyres:rolleyes:
Norway,Sweden and Finland does alot of research abou wintertyres,and your 10% depends on what tyres you use,and other aids you use.
Even without wintertyres,you can use ferro bet tyre grip you actually spray on,which have shown grip effect of 300%.
The best effect you get when you combine it with winter tyres,allthough you can use it with summer tyres as well,but you wont get the same effect.;)