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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #7712
    jluv
    Registered Users Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭jluv


    By the way I asked my mother tonight if she wanted to discuss the household charge. Her response was No. I'm not paying. If they take me to court I'll smile at the judge and say "That damn stroke! Makes me forget a lot of things" Priceless... But good..


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    #7713
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jluv wrote: »
    You've answered my question..Didn't get anything last time,won't get anything this time. Yet again those who have not contributed ever are not expected to contribute now. I refuse to be a fool..

    Yeah - you got nothing - except the gamut of services your local authority provides, that is.


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    #7714
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    dvpower wrote: »
    So you want to cut waste ... and get a new library, park and swimming pool in every village? :D

    And his answer is here:

    I propose we start by slashing all politicians pay to reasonable levels ie. max of 70k for the top job. 50k for the rest.
    Then lets have the local council list the services they intend to provide and the costs for these services. Let us see the entries for iPhones and the likes, trips to NY for paddys day etc and let the people vote/decide on what they believe are really vital services

    What part you missing !??


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    #7715
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    rebeve wrote: »
    Never had the decision to make re food or heat ?Hope its always that way for you .You hav`nt a clue whats going on in this country .

    agree

    will it finish off my estate?

    where is this money going to and how much will it be next year an year AFTER


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    #7716
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    rolion wrote: »
    And his answer is here:

    I propose we start by slashing all politicians pay to reasonable levels ie. max of 70k for the top job. 50k for the rest.
    Then lets have the local council list the services they intend to provide and the costs for these services. Let us see the entries for iPhones and the likes, trips to NY for paddys day etc and let the people vote/decide on what they believe are really vital services

    What part you missing !??

    Its you that missed a bit. Here it is:
    howamidifferent wrote: »
    That would be a start. And I also like to know where they intend to build a library, a park and a swimming pool in my village...


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    #7717
    porsche boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭porsche boy


    alastair wrote: »
    Heh. A movement that claims over a million behind them only has the ambition to book a venue with a capacity of 2,000 for their self proclaimed 'Huge' focal point protest. Major success alright. :rolleyes:

    What have I done? I've paid my taxes rather than waste people's time.

    it's no claim. Look at the numbers registered to pay the tax. you are in the minority. Remember that was not a protest, that will be taking place on the 31st at the Ard Fheis. That was a rally for the local organisers whom in turn will arrange local meetings to feed out the information gathered. On that basis 3000 people was a HUGE success.

    So you've paid you €100 quid, well done you. Are you expecting to pay another €100 next year if this continues? You sir will not only be buggered next year, you will feel like you have been fisted.

    oh, which government dept do you work in?


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    #7718
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    MightyBouche wrote: »
    Are you under the impression that the wealth is kept in liquid cash in bank accounts?

    The people you're referring to also pay the majority of the tax collected by the revenue every year in this country. Easy to forget that though, isn't it?




    Are you referring to the money they worked their arses off for, far harder than their Irish counterparts and indeed for less money than them? The money they paid PAYE to receive and put more of it back into the country in the form of VAT and taxes collected on rent? Who are you to tell them where their money should go?

    I'm not liable for the household charge but would pay it if I were. Those opposing it are being foolishly self-serving and short sighted.

    well its affecting our country cant you see that. da irsh cang et job as no nationals are getting them an i admit companys are also to blame


    you go there they country and u be told to F off


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    #7719
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    baldymac wrote: »
    well its affecting our country cant you see that. da irsh cang et job as no nationals are getting them an i admit companys are also to blame


    you go there they country and u be told to F off
    Those foreigners - coming over here and they can't even speak our language. :rolleyes:


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    #7720
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,507 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    jluv wrote: »
    I'm more of a reader than a poster here however my 72 year old mother who is an invalid and who has no idea of what we are discussing here,actually brought the subject up tonight as I was putting her to bed. She was speaking to a friend on the phone today who said she should pay the household tax.She has no idea what it is all about.This is the first time she mentioned it. But now she is worried that this is something she should do but doesn't know why.I told her not to worry and that we would discuss it tomorrow.At least she has me to talk it over with. Imagine all the older people who have noone to talk to!
    jluv wrote: »
    By the way I asked my mother tonight if she wanted to discuss the household charge. Her response was No. I'm not paying. If they take me to court I'll smile at the judge and say "That damn stroke! Makes me forget a lot of things" Priceless... But good..

    Think of another subject for tomorrow night's bedtime chat.


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    #7721
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    dvpower wrote: »
    So you want to cut waste ... and get a new library, park and swimming pool in every village? :D

    No I want to expose the lies that this is what I'm giving my 100 euro for!

    Its more likely to be paying Phil Hogans 170k pay packet.

    Lets see, 1700 houses pay and it goes to Phils pay packet, next 1500 go to pay Berties pension etc..
    Services my arse!


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    #7722
    porsche boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭porsche boy


    MightyBouche wrote: »
    Are you under the impression that the wealth is kept in liquid cash in bank accounts?

    The people you're referring to also pay the majority of the tax collected by the revenue every year in this country. Easy to forget that though, isn't it?

    No, I realise it's not kept in liquid cash, it's in investments abroad, it's in their '12 reg'd Range Rovers and their houses in Ballsbridge. It's in their swiss bank accounts and under their mattresses. The one place it isn't is in a bank account where every one can see it and if you really think these people paid their fair share of tax then you really are deluded.
    These are the people that would rather pay an accountant gobs of money so they can avoid paying the government bigger gobs of money.


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    #7723
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,507 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    porsche boy wrote: »
    it's no claim. Look at the numbers registered to pay the tax. you are in the minority. Remember that was not a protest, that will be taking place on the 31st at the Ard Fheis. That was a rally for the local organisers whom in turn will arrange local meetings to feed out the information gathered. On that basis 3000 people was a HUGE success.

    So you've paid you €100 quid, well done you. Are you expecting to pay another €100 next year if this continues? You sir will not only be buggered next year, you will feel like you have been fisted.

    oh, which government dept do you work in?

    If I got a gas bill a fortnight ago with pay by 31 March then if I don't pay it until next Thursday it doesn't mean I am supporting some sort of anti gas bill group.


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    #7724
    MightyBouche
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭MightyBouche


    baldymac wrote: »
    well its affecting our country cant you see that. da irsh cang et job as no nationals are getting them an i admit companys are also to blame


    you go there they country and u be told to F off

    How is it affecting our country? It's their money, the same as the money in your account or sock drawer is your money. If they hadn't sent it home, then what? We'd take it out of their accounts to give to the government? No, it'd remain there as their money and they would treat it like anyone else here is treating their money at the moment.

    Companies are to blame? The only people to blame are those who priced themselves out of the work force. Companies operate in a way that will achieve the most profit for those running it and their shareholders. If they can reduce costs by hiring staff who work for less money and do an equal, if not better job, then they rightfully will do so. If "da Irish" lose out to these people it's their own fault for not dropping their rates themselves or working harder to compete.

    You're a racist and there's not much more to it. The points you've tried to make, in English more broken than that of any Pole I've encountered recently, are completely meritless and outright ignorant. A company here should not hire Irish people who want more money for less work than their Polish counterparts, simply because they're Irish. Get a grip.


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    #7725
    jluv
    Registered Users Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭jluv


    alastair wrote: »
    Yeah - you got nothing - except the gamut of services your local authority provides, that is.
    Now I just want to say that I know you are a wind up merchant.Have seen all your responses to others.
    What services did I get? You tell me and I'll tell you if I got them.Heads up..There will be a lot of No's


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    #7726
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,507 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    porsche boy wrote: »
    No, I realise it's not kept in liquid cash, it's in investments abroad, it's in their '12 reg'd Range Rovers and their houses in Ballsbridge. It's in their swiss bank accounts and under their mattresses. The one place it isn't is in a bank account where every one can see it and if you really think these people paid their fair share of tax then you really are deluded.
    These are the people that would rather pay an accountant gobs of money so they can avoid paying the government bigger gobs of money.

    Yes a lot of people thought breaking the law was a great way to keep their money in their pockets. Turned out to be a false economy. This trawl of tax defaulters has been going on since 2001 taking in over €100 million every quarter.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0314/1224313270436.html


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    #7727
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    jluv wrote: »
    What services did I get? You tell me and I'll tell you if I got them.Heads up..There will be a lot of No's
    Have a look under the 'services' section of your local authority website. What services do you wish to discontinue?


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    #7728
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,396 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Leo was asked today why hadnt they taken people who pay management fees into account.
    The answer was pretty worrying for anyone who pays a management fee as it appears they never intend to take these into account.
    He said that you would have to pay this tax whether you paid management fees or not and that they were two seperate fees. Management fees, were for "lifts, lighting, public liability, etc but the household tax was for the use of local services (footpaths, public bins, lighting, street cleaning)

    Now, correct me if I am wrong, but how can they link a charge per house owner to the use of such public services? Doesn't everyone use these services whether they own a house or not.

    I have a few issues with this charge, not least the communications about what exactly it is for, what it covers, and what the plans are in future to increase this tax. It is obvious now that those paying management fees will not have these taken into account.


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    #7729
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    kippy wrote: »
    ...I have a few issues with this charge, not least the communications about what exactly it is for, what it covers, and what the plans are in future to increase this tax. It is obvious now that those paying management fees will not have these taken into account.

    Indeed - so to sum up if I may, its a right balls-up they have made of it!


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    #7730
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    howamidifferent wrote: »
    I propose we start by slashing all politicians pay to reasonable levels ie. max of 70k for the top job. 50k for the rest.

    I find it hard to take seriously, someone who proposes the tiresome old “cut politicians pay” as solution to a financial crisis. It is a notion that has some merit as a gesture for the purpose of establishing a sense of solidarity between politicians and the people and there is certainly an argument that politicians remuneration is much too high. But it will make no meaningful contribution to the solutions of our problems.

    If you disagree, perhaps you can do a cost analysis of what might be saved by putting manners in the politicians and see how far that will go in plugging our multi-billion dollar defcit?

    In any case, my question was a simple one that you did not answer. How do you propose we fund something with money that was spent 6 years ago?


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    #7731
    MightyBouche
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭MightyBouche


    porsche boy wrote: »
    No, I realise it's not kept in liquid cash, it's in investments abroad, it's in their '12 reg'd Range Rovers and their houses in Ballsbridge. It's in their swiss bank accounts and under their mattresses. The one place it isn't is in a bank account where every one can see it and if you really think these people paid their fair share of tax then you really are deluded.
    These are the people that would rather pay an accountant gobs of money so they can avoid paying the government bigger gobs of money.

    The top earners in this country pay a disproportionate amount of tax and account for the majority of the tax paid in this country. That is a fact and none of your accusations of tax evasion or avoidance will make that any different.

    Don't begrudge their success merely because you haven't enjoyed any yourself. Be glad that so many have stuck around to keep the country running through paying taxes on their income and companies and indirectly through employing people who themselves pay tax.


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    #7732
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    alastair wrote: »
    .

    And as the poll tax. I was there and refused to pay. .

    Just out of curiosity, why did you refuse to pay that particular tax? After all it was the law of the land at the time? Did you think it was an unfair tax? Did you feel that the then government were taking you for a ride?


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    #7733
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    dvpower wrote: »
    Those foreigners - coming over here and they can't even speak our language. :rolleyes:

    and guess what they can walk into job cause they have same nationality working already, and of they feck up or complain they will not be called back .and resplce by anohter of there nationalty..as i know from experience


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    #7734
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Almost 8,000 replies, so it's a given that I haven't read a single post.

    You won't go to jail for not paying it.
    You will go to jail for not paying the fines you get for not paying it.

    I'm not paying.
    I'll do the 4 hours in the 'joy.


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    #7735
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    lugha wrote: »
    ...In any case, my question was a simple one that you did not answer. How do you propose we fund something with money that was spent 6 years ago?

    Thats too short a question.

    Maybe it should be: How should one propose to fund something with HOME TAX money that maybe spent 6(?) years ago, that the homebuyer is still paying on, with interest on till the end of their mortgage?

    Huh?

    They were glad enough to take it then to fund services supposedly.
    Now when our government has taken €170 million from the councils per year, they want us to fill the hole (again) due to their thieving/syphoning off!


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    #7736
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,396 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Biggins wrote: »
    Indeed - so to sum up if I may, its a right balls-up they have made of it!

    Plain and simple, yep.

    I do agree with the need for a sustainable tax base and some form of charge applied to assist with this however what has happened in this instance is just a farce (so far).

    Now, I also have bigger issues around the one law for us and another law for them, which may ultimately be why most people who want to use this charge as a form of protest.


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    #7737
    D1stant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    baldymac wrote: »
    and guess what they can walk into job cause they have same nationality working already, and of they feck up or complain they will not be called back .and resplce by anohter of there nationalty..as i know from experience

    Jesus. The Polish (beer brewing companies) have a lot to answer for


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    #7738
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    i dont care i wont be paying it, if they put us both in jail me an my gf wont be wont be able to pay our mortgage so what then ??????


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    #7739
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    lugha wrote: »
    I find it hard to take seriously, someone who proposes the tiresome old “cut politicians pay” as solution to a financial crisis. It is a notion that has some merit as a gesture for the purpose of establishing a sense of solidarity between politicians and the people and there is certainly an argument that politicians remuneration is much too high. But it will make no meaningful contribution to the solutions of our problems.

    If you disagree, perhaps you can do a cost analysis of what might be saved by putting manners in the politicians and see how far that will go in plugging our multi-billion dollar defcit?

    In any case, my question was a simple one that you did not answer. How do you propose we fund something with money that was spent 6 years ago?

    If slashing politicians pay will make no meaningful contribution to the problem then how does my 100 euro make a difference to it????

    As for your last question, we fund what we can and we do without what we cant afford. Thats how we operate in my house. Its called cutting your cloth to measure. That would be a good place to start.


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    #7740
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,507 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Terry wrote: »
    Almost 8,000 replies, so it's a given that I haven't read a single post.

    You won't go to jail for not paying it.
    You will go to jail for not paying the fines you get for not paying it.

    I'm not paying.
    I'll do the 4 hours in the 'joy.

    Are criminals allowed to decided the length of their sentences and where they serve them?

    If you are going down the road of not paying there could be other consequences for you and your private property. Inform yourself of all the facts.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf


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    #7741
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    Now when our government has taken €170 million from the councils per year, they want us to fill the hole (again) due to their thieving/syphoning off!
    What evidence do you have for this extraordinary claim that the government have been thieving money from the Local Government budget?


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