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This is a Paranormal Forum
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15-12-2011 10:46am#1
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i find it very funny that so many people are unwilling to believe in the paranormal,and spirit activity,life after death ect,yet will go into a church and pray to other souls than god,i am rather lucky in the fact that i am constantly aware of spirit and residual activity about , it not just a fantasy to me
I know, I've always found that quite funny as well. Some churchgoers proclaiming their belief in the Holy Spirit aloud and then balking at the idea of spirits and ghosts outside that setting.
Having said that, I know quite a few people who either don't believe in God, or do believe in God but never attend mass, but believe in paranormal phenomena. It varies. Personally, I just about fall into the latter category, but I'm not a Holy Joe. Christmas Eve is the day (or night, rather) for my annual trip to mass.
I remember a few months ago, when I took a taxi home after a night out, and, God knows how it all started now, but the taxi driver (who must have been in his early 60s and was married, by all accounts) started talking to me about miracles and the devil. Talk about surreal. The guy had rosary beads hanging from his rear-view mirror and a little picture of Padre Pio on the dash, so he was a clearly a bit of a 'Holy Joe'. He was a nice, normal fella though.
Anyway, he was telling me a story about how his sister, who had advanced breast cancer, went out to Saint James Church out in Medjugorje to receive blessings and, within five weeks of returning home, the cancer had gone into remission. It could be a coincidence, but the taxi driver firmly believed that God spared her life.
I wouldn't (openly) dismiss those kinds of things where there was a positive outcome because 1) faith is a powerful thing, 2) it's important to have some respect for people who are going through a tough time and have little else but faith to cling on to, and 3) the desired result is the most important thing and not the 'method' to achieve the result, IMO. Another thing is that people's experiences are very real and authentic to them. Unless you're them, how can you know anything about what they perceive?
As for the part of the conversation with the taxi driver about the devil.. He was telling me, in very concerned tones, that he believed there were people, in his local pub, for instance, that were involved with the devil in some way. He was telling me he could see it in their eyes and 'feel' it.
He was saying he often had to leave premises because of those kinds of people and was wondering what he could do to protect himself. I'm hardly well-versed in this sort of thing, but I just told him (seeing as he was well into God) to ask for God's protection whenever he felt 'under threat' and he'd be grand.
I wish I was making this up because it sounds hilarious when I type it out, but the man was normal. He looked and sounded a bit like the farmer played by James Cromwell in the film 'Babe' actually.
Anyway, the point of all this is that you can get Holy Joes who dismiss the paranormal and Holy Joes who believe in the paranormal as well. Oh, and that, until you start talking to people, you can't judge them on appearances.0 -
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I think the catholic church make it a bad thing to believe in ghosts, since if they werent in heaven, werent in hell and werent in purgatory, then they must be evil (or something along that line). Makes no sense at all to demonise ghosts when you consider the ideas religion is based on - but thats how it went.MrMojoRisin wrote: »I know, I've always found that quite funny as well. Some churchgoers proclaiming their belief in the Holy Spirit aloud and then balking at the idea of spirits and ghosts outside that setting.
Having said that, I know quite a few people who either don't believe in God, or do believe in God but never attend mass, but believe in paranormal phenomena. It varies. Personally, I just about fall into the latter category, but I'm not a Holy Joe. Christmas Eve is the day (or night, rather) for my annual trip to mass.
I remember a few months ago, when I took a taxi home after a night out, and, God knows how it all started now, but the taxi driver (who must have been in his early 60s and was married, by all accounts) started talking to me about miracles and the devil. Talk about surreal. The guy had rosary beads hanging from his rear-view mirror and a little picture of Padre Pio on the dash, so he was a clearly a bit of a 'Holy Joe'. He was a nice, normal fella though.
Anyway, he was telling me a story about how his sister, who had advanced breast cancer, went out to Saint James Church out in Medjugorje to receive blessings and, within five weeks of returning home, the cancer had gone into remission. It could be a coincidence, but the taxi driver firmly believed that God spared her life.
I wouldn't (openly) dismiss those kinds of things where there was a positive outcome because 1) faith is a powerful thing, 2) it's important to have some respect for people who are going through a tough time and have little else but faith to cling on to, and 3) the desired result is the most important thing and not the 'method' to achieve the result, IMO. Another thing is that people's experiences are very real and authentic to them. Unless you're them, how can you know anything about what they perceive?
As for the part of the conversation with the taxi driver about the devil.. He was telling me, in very concerned tones, that he believed there were people, in his local pub, for instance, that were involved with the devil in some way. He was telling me he could see it in their eyes and 'feel' it.
He was saying he often had to leave premises because of those kinds of people and was wondering what he could do to protect himself. I'm hardly well-versed in this sort of thing, but I just told him (seeing as he was well into God) to ask for God's protection whenever he felt 'under threat' and he'd be grand.
I wish I was making this up because it sounds hilarious when I type it out, but the man was normal. He looked and sounded a bit like the farmer played by James Cromwell in the film 'Babe' actually.
Anyway, the point of all this is that you can get Holy Joes who dismiss the paranormal and Holy Joes who believe in the paranormal as well. Oh, and that, until you start talking to people, you can't judge them on appearances.0 -
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Unless the charter is updated with a "only paranormal explanations are to be proposed or discussed" how could this work.
I agree that people are put off, but it's not just the "skeptics", many "non paranormal" explanations to various photos and stories are given by posters who normally accept some paranormal phenomena.
Is what you're proposing a change to the charter, for example, where if someone posts a picture of a ghost, or a story, - anyone proposing a non-paranormal explanation would be infracted - no matter who the poster is?
I don't think the poster mean't that the only explaination is paranormal; more about how some replies. Some people have responded to posts with one or two words like 'sleep paralysis' or 'Pareidolia' and leave it at that. They throw in these as if they are the answer to everything. Its not helpful to a discussion and its likely to result in someone not bothering replying.
Im sure it can be a bit tiring to explain these terms every time but it comes across as rude and condescending.
There is one thread in here that I think is brilliant and seems to have been left alone by the skeptics, its the one about people's experiences with ghosts. Its nice to hear people talk about what they seen/heard/felt without any judgement.
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I don't think the poster mean't that the only explaination is paranormal; more about how some replies. Some people have responded to posts with one or two words like 'sleep paralysis' or 'Pareidolia' and leave it at that. They throw in these as if they are the answer to everything. Its not helpful to a discussion and its likely to result in someone not bothering replying.
Because that is what a lot those experiences are. The other night I woke up, in pain. There was a withered old lady standing over me - she cackled, whispered, and hissed at me. I could barely move. She said some name, and that that person was coming to take control of me. - she placed her hand on my shoulder and I was shot through with a freezing cold pain.
It felt very real at the time. But I know it wasn't. And I can go months, or even years, without these experiences. I do not believe dark forces have been released from some place, and I'm on the verge of being demoniacally possessed.Im sure it can be a bit tiring to explain these terms every time but it comes across as rude and condescending.
“We’ve been attacked, by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture.” - Pastor Ray Mummert
There's something that really puts me on edge and drives me up that wall.
The dictionary definition of ignorance:
Pronunciation: /ˈɪgn(ə)r(ə)nt/
adjective
lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated:
But in Ireland it's has a completely upside down meaning. It's what the ignorant call intelligent people, when intelligent people have the cheek to open their mouths and say something intelligent.
The case against intellect is founded on a set of fictional and wholly abstract antagonisms. Intellect is pitted against feeling, on the ground that it is somehow inconsistent with warm emotion.
It is pitted against character, because it is widely believed that intellect stands for mere cleverness, which transmutes easily into the sly and diabolical. It is pitted against practicality, since theory is held to be opposed to practice. It is pitted against democracy, since intellect is felt to be a form of distinction that defies egalitarianism…. Once the validity of these antagonisms is accepted, then the case for intellect … is lost. - Richard Hofstadter
A thick fat Paddy, with a van and a few buckets and shovels, should be given millins to buy a bog field from a "salt of the earth" Irish bog farmer, to build his "luxury" apartments in the middle of nowhere. Because he isn't "ignorant" like de eejits who read books.
Some people deserve a little rudeness and condescension. And condescension to some people - is just someone more intelligent questioning them, with no insult intended. They know they're stupid, and just have a contempt for anyone they believe to be more intelligent than them.
When stupid people, offer their stupid opinions, they should be told to shut up. The same ignorant Paddy Whacks have no problem telling anyone else to shut up. And they will, ignorantly, tell you to shut your mouth when you say anything they don't like - they'll shut it with a box if they can. It's how we stayed such a backward and stupid country for so long - it's how the country was run into the ground, time and time again. By the same ignorant thicks every time.There is one thread in here that I think is brilliant and seems to have been left alone by the skeptics, its the one about people's experiences with ghosts. Its nice to hear people talk about what they seen/heard/felt without any judgement.
Because these are "experiences". "Experiences" are valid in themselves, whatever their cause. Someone insisting they've seen the Vargin Mary's face appear in a sock, and demanding everyone take their statement as absolute proof of the veracity of a particular kind of rural, agricultural, Irish Catholicism, is something else.
Jesus, I'd love to hear more from that woman, who was in that house where she saw different faces looking back at her from the bathroom mirror.
Extraordinary experiences are valid and interesting as experiences.
With the whole paranormal thing, you will have, liars who are just looking for attention. People who have psychiatric problems - and who are looking for validation of their delusions. And it is absolutely irresponsible to humour these people. And then just the stupid.
I can remember the "moving statues". Every old biddy trying to out do each other with their stories of apparitions, and "messages" from the Vargin Mary. Some scumbag girls I went to school with, milked the faithful for nearly two years, with their performances. And I remember getting smacks in the gob from "adults", when I would tell them what chancers these girls were - and their "donations" weren't going towards a fund to take the girls on a pilgrim to Lourdes. But for fags and under age drinking. The fiasco only ended when one of the girls got pregnant (at 13). Initially, she tried to claim immaculate conception.
The "business" of the paranormal is populated by some of the most awful conmen.
If you wake up in the middle of the night. And you can't move, and there is a yellow man standing over you choking you. That is sleep paralysis.
If the same thing happens, but your partner wakes up, and sees a yellow man standing over you and choking you. That is something very different.
The "smell of roses". Rose oil, or floral essence is very powerful. Once it gets in somewhere it never leaves. Something as simple as a change in temperature can release a strong puff. There are fragrances in everything from toilet disinfectant, to nappy rash cream.
If your cousin tells you a story about a dead actress contacting her through an oujia board - they're probably lying.
On the other hand. I do know people, who've had extraordinary experiences, when there was more than one person there. Where it's not explained by drugs, drink, or their imagination - and it's not a vague blob, of most likely condensation on a camera lens. I'm not saying there was anything supernatural involved - but the experiences were extraordinary.
Someone who says their dead mammy has come back as a stray cat, should be told to shut up. Unless the cat can read and write - and communicate with a bit more than a meow.
"Me granny died...den de next day...she came back as a bird and sat in de tree in me back garden....I felt really peaceful.... den me granny flew away...flew away up to heaven".
Maybe it was just bird.0 -
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The whole thing is it's actually a really vast subject.
You don't need to tell me, of all people, that.It does and it doesn't. I tell you, the first time I experienced it, I more than half believed it was supernatural experience.
You can be lying there full awake, as you can move your eyes and your concious, but your body is complete frozen, and it can go on for a very long time.
Then you can suddenly become unfrozen, and be able to get out of bed - but that might be an illusion/dream. And in reality you're still asleep. And experience I had earlier this year. I was paralysed for a few minutes, then I was able to get out of bed, I went to turn on the light switch, and it wouldn't come on. Then I got suspicious that I might still be dreaming, though everything felt really real - and zap, I was back paralysed in bed.
Yeah, well, that seems to be sleep paralysis featuring some characteristics of an Out of Body Experience (OBE).It doesn't have to be a hag. There doesn't have to be anything there. Or it can be anything.
Okay, grand. In my friend's case, he saw something, except there wasn't any pressure on his chest and his trunk and limbs weren't paralysed. He was able to move his whole body to see what was going on.For the last few nights I've had very disturbed sleep. One experience over the last few nights, has been an old woman leaning over me. One thing that sets it aside from ordinary dreaming, is it feels more realistic.
I actually do not like to sleep in complete darkness. As I've had the experience of very real people being in my room, when I was asleep doing really weird stuff.
That's obviously unique to you. Personally, I've never had any 'visions' of things or people that/who felt almost real in my room at night. Funnily enough, I have to sleep in complete darkness, or else I can't sleep right.
Well, I've never experienced sleep paralysis myself or woken up to see something extremely strange, but I've had a few nightmares over the years alright. That's about the extent of it.
I suppose some people are just more prone than others to having disturbed sleep and weak boundaries between their dreamlife and waking life. It happens.0 -
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MrMojoRisin wrote: »That's true. Because they can't put ghosts into a little 'home', i.e. hell, or category, then they must be extensions of the devil. :rolleyes: The Catholic Church as a whole dismisses the paranormal/occult but you do get individual priests and clerics who have their own personal views that differ from the church.
A few years ago, there was a priest in my parish who was living in the house they usually assign to parish priests but, after only a few months, he requested to be housed elsewhere. The reason for it was because there was 'activity' in the place and the guy was very open about it too. In fairness, people did take him seriously. I think it was because there was a story attached to the house where a priest had hanged himself inside there years ago.
Out of interest was this in Cork or in Dublin? I think I read before on another thread that you lived in Cork for some time and am just genuinely interested. Apologies if I got my wires crossed in advance! 0 -
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trixie_belle12 wrote: »Out of interest was this in Cork or in Dublin? I think I read before on another thread that you lived in Cork for some time and am just genuinely interested. Apologies if I got my wires crossed in advance!
Nah, you're grand. I used to live in Cork before because I grew up there, so yeah, that priest's experience happened in Cork. 0 -
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