Non Principal Private Residence €200 Charge & Household €100 Charge Question

Lady Chatterton

When the household charge of €100 is introduced next year, will it be applied on top of the NPPR charge?

Paulw

Yes, looks like it will.

Leslie91

I've been trying to find confirmation of this too. I am renting out my NPPR apartment to help pay our rent on the house we are tenants in, incoming does not cover outgoing. So, I will be screwed for €300 p.a. now?.

Concerned Citizen 2014

Have recently got a bill for the non principal private residence tax of 4,220 (this is 200 euro per year plus 20 euro a month for each month we didn't pay). We own an apartment and had to move out when my wife was pregnant as the apartment didn't suit kids. We were never contacted and didn't hear anything about the NPPR tax but now are being billed and heavily penalised. We are being told that our bill will almost double in September if we don't pay up now. We are normally very proactive in paying bills and are extremely disappointed that we now have this bill that we knew nothing about. We feel that we are being taxed and penalised for having a baby. What is going on in Ireland, is there any advice out there that will help?

loyatemu

Concerned Citizen 2014 wrote: »

Have recently got a bill for the non principal private residence tax of 4,220 (this is 200 euro per year plus 20 euro a month for each month we didn't pay). We own an apartment and had to move out when my wife was pregnant as the apartment didn't suit kids. We were never contacted and didn't hear anything about the NPPR tax but now are being billed and heavily penalised. We are being told that our bill will almost double in September if we don't pay up now. We are normally very proactive in paying bills and are extremely disappointed that we now have this bill that we knew nothing about. We feel that we are being taxed and penalised for having a baby. What is going on in Ireland, is there any advice out there that will help?

are you living abroad now?

Concerned Citizen 2014

no, renting a house thirty minutes away as we needed the room for our kids.

murphaph

I'm afraid not. We all accept that ignorance of the law is no excuse blah blah and there must be some penalty imposed for failure to pay taxes due, including the NPPR BUT the equivalent interest rates charged would make a back street money lender blush. The interest and penalties Revenue charge by comparison to income tax evaders is a fraction of that charged to the NPPR defaulter. It is grossly unfair, but there is no escape as the local authorities have no power of discretion. They may agree to an installment plan, but that's about the height of it. Sorry :-(

You'll get people coming on saying any penalty is fair etc. but those same people won't usually agree to making all parking or speeding tickets €1000.

loyatemu

the NPPR charge was pretty well publicised at the time, and in subsequent literature regarding the LPT, you won't get anywhere claiming ignorance of it.

murphaph

loyatemu wrote: »

are you living abroad now?

Wouldn't make any difference anyway. The debt is rolled into the property tax and Revenue will eventually get it when the property is sold or bequeathed. Non-residents are just as liable for the NPPR, HHC and LPT as residents.

godtabh

Concerned Citizen 2014 wrote: »

We were never contacted and didn't hear anything about the NPPR tax

Do you live under a rock?

Massive paper and radio campaigns about the tax each year prior to payment date and before the end of the payment date. Even once recently about an opportunity to pay up without further penalties.

Leslie91

Concerned Citizen 2014 wrote: »

no, renting a house thirty minutes away as we needed the room for our kids.

I was in the exact same boat but learned about this tax much earlier than you. I even got to the local TD and the local county council manager and got nowhere. There was no appeal structure built into the scandalous legislation.

It is incredible, like you say, that someone is being punished so harshly for choosing to make a move they wanted to for their family.

I have no problem with the tax per se it is the fact that the penalties were so harsh. This tax was meant for landlords with multiple properties, not for you and me and yet we got screwed to the wall.

Sorry I don't have any good news.

Leslie91

godtabh wrote: »

Do you live under a rock?

Massive paper and radio campaigns about the tax each year prior to payment date and before the end of the payment date. Even once recently about an opportunity to pay up without further penalties.

That's a bit harsh...

There are many more like OP and myself who have got caught by this tax. We are not all blind or living under a rock, nor did we try to avoid it. I was more than willing to pay it when I learnt about it but the penalties like someone above so eloquently put it would make a money lender blush.

No appeal process either, a real Hogan stroke.

Concerned Citizen 2014

This is great I wasn't expecting any response! I don't live under a rock. I haven't received anything from the massive paper campaign and mustn't listen to advertisements on radio, however if I received one bill over the past few years I would have paid the bill. I suppose I wasn't really expecting that if I buy a property and decide to move out that I will be taxed for not living there....does this mean that if I stop using my car I am going to have to pay the government some tax?

loyatemu

Leslie91 wrote: »

It is incredible, like you say, that someone is being punished so harshly for choosing to make a move they wanted to for their family.

he's being punished for not paying the tax - he could have paid it 3 years go & it would have been just €200

Leslie91

loyatemu wrote: »

he's being punished for not paying the tax - he could have paid it 3 years go & it would have been just €200

It's the level of penalty I have the issue with... not the fact that one is being punished.

HcksawJimDuggan

does this mean that if I stop using my car I am going to have to pay the government some tax?

Provided you declare in advance that your vehicle will be off the road and not in use for a period of between 3 and 12 months you won't have any motor tax to pay. However, the declaration of non-use must be made in the same month that your current motor tax disc expires. If arrears in motor tax are due these must be paid in full and you must also pay a minimum of 3 months motor tax, before a declaration of non-use can be made.

It's a cruel world.

Concerned Citizen 2014

I really don't understand the tax. My wife queried the amount due and looked into after we had received the bill and apparently if a family member is staying in the property you are exempt from paying the tax. While this again doesn't make sense we were delighted as my sister was minding the apartment for nearly two years, however we were told that as we lived more than 2km from the property we still had to pay the tax. This is the only property that we own and we didn't buy it to become a landlord.

mrsbyrne

I think the capital sum you owe must be paid immediately and in full. The penalties fines interest etc can be stage payments afalk but only if you show inability to pay.
Like every revenue dept in the world you owe it you will pay it .
If you don't engage with them they will go straight into your bank account and take it out.
Ring today and avoid any more hassle.
Once again the NPPR and LPT and Household Charge has been all over the media for 3 years. Its hard to understand how you didn't at least wonder if your second property was liable for taxes.

Leslie91

Concerned Citizen 2014 wrote: »

I really don't understand the tax. My wife queried the amount due and looked into after we had received the bill and apparently if a family member is staying in the property you are exempt from paying the tax. While this again doesn't make sense we were delighted as my sister was minding the apartment for nearly two years, however we were told that as we lived more than 2km from the property we still had to pay the tax. This is the only property that we own and we didn't buy it to become a landlord.

It's gas really... this distance from property and family member living in it lark.... never did this get said to me. The county councils/govt seem to make it up as they go along.

The tax is fair in that the intention was to extract some money from big landlords (who of course got it from the poor tenants anyway). But of course it applied to all NPPR owners like you and I.

Sounds like you might make some progress on getting the liability reduced, but the chances of you getting it completely squashed are nil. Try making them an offer you think is fair and see what they say, based on (1) the time your sister was in it and (2) the dates that she was there.

athtrasna

Leslie91 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh...

There are many more like OP and myself who have got caught by this tax. We are not all blind or living under a rock, nor did we try to avoid it. I was more than willing to pay it when I learnt about it but the penalties like someone above so eloquently put it would make a money lender blush.

No appeal process either, a real Hogan stroke.

Two things, the penalty was deliberately made high to encourage compliance and to punish those who didn't pay. And it has nothing to do with Phil Hogan, the law was brought in by Fianna Fail!!

godtabh

I've paid my NPPR. I never received any notice. Dont see how anyone could claim not to have heard of it given the widespread publicity surrounding it.

Leslie91

athtrasna wrote: »

Two things, the penalty was deliberately made high to encourage compliance and to punish those who didn't pay. And it has nothing to do with Phil Hogan, the law was brought in by Fianna Fail!!

Yep I know... was just pointing out the stroke pulled setting up NPPR without appeals process was v like something Hogan would be proud of.

athtrasna

Leslie91 wrote: »

Yep I know... was just pointing out the stroke pulled setting up NPPR without appeals process was v like something Hogan would be proud of.

I think that's unfair. And the fact is Hogan actually abolished the NPPR!

Roanmore

Concerned Citizen 2014 wrote: »

Have recently got a bill for the non principal private residence tax of 4,220 (this is 200 euro per year plus 20 euro a month for each month we didn't pay). We own an apartment and had to move out when my wife was pregnant as the apartment didn't suit kids. We were never contacted and didn't hear anything about the NPPR tax but now are being billed and heavily penalised. We are being told that our bill will almost double in September if we don't pay up now. We are normally very proactive in paying bills and are extremely disappointed that we now have this bill that we knew nothing about. We feel that we are being taxed and penalised for having a baby. What is going on in Ireland, is there any advice out there that will help?

How is your bill 4200? This came in in 2009 (I think), that's 5 years - €1000.
€20 euro a month - 240 a year, or €1200 in total. That's a total of €2200.
Am I calculating it wrong?

Concerned Citizen 2014

No you are calculating it appropriately, they have added in additional charges as we didn't pay on time.

Leslie91

athtrasna wrote: »

I think that's unfair. And the fact is Hogan actually abolished the NPPR!

Yep... then re-named it household charge/property tax, increased the cost and extended to everybody.

athtrasna

Leslie91 wrote: »

Yep... then re-named it household charge/property tax, increased the cost and extended to everybody.

Which was agreed by FF with the Troika! Every Western country has some sort of property tax, it was something that had to be brought in whether we liked it or not.

The bottom line is that this NPPR was brought in, advertised widely and yet evaded on a large scale. Evasion either on purpose or by accident but evasion no less. I for one am glad that it's being pursued, the more money this brings to the exchequer the less they're going to have to increase the tax I pay. Just because you're not asked to pay a tax, it doesn't mean you're not liable to pay. There's an element of self-education involved.

The recession caused a lot of people (myself included) to become "accidental landlords". The level of research and compliance varies hugely across those people. We paid an accountant to do our tax returns and make sure that we were compliant. Not necessary but it was worth it for peace of mind. Others did that all themselves, others deliberately decided not to pay taxes, others didn't even think of the tax implications.

jmaycock

loyatemu wrote: »

the NPPR charge was pretty well publicised at the time, and in subsequent literature regarding the LPT, you won't get anywhere claiming ignorance of it.

So what?! Why should they wait years before sending out a bill? A ridiculous state of affairs. Disgraceful. And then they add a ridiculous amount of fines on top of the bill. Criminal. Don't stand for this. Organise and cause maximum disruption and embarrassment. Maybe then the officials involved can get their own house in order and send out timely bills. Unbelievable….

jmaycock

godtabh wrote: »

I've paid my NPPR. I never received any notice. Dont see how anyone could claim not to have heard of it given the widespread publicity surrounding it.

Maybe some people don't listen to crap radio? And in any case if someone owed me money I would send them a bill. Not assume they know they owe me money. Get off your high horse you piece of s%&t.

athtrasna

jmaycock wrote: »

So what?! Why should they wait years before sending out a bill? A ridiculous state of affairs. Disgraceful. And then they add a ridiculous amount of fines on top of the bill. Criminal. Don't stand for this. Organise and cause maximum disruption and embarrassment. Maybe then the officials involved can get their own house in order and send out timely bills. Unbelievable….

It was always the responsibility of the individual to pay the charge. From its inception it was advertised as you must register and pay. It's like the prtb, nobody sends you a registration form but as a landlord it's your responsibility to register. Bills are being sent out to those people who failed in their obligation to pay the NPPR and there are perfectly legal but very high penalties. If the landlord had paid in the first place this wouldn't be an issue!

The_Morrigan

jmaycock wrote: »

Maybe some people don't listen to crap radio? And in any case if someone owed me money I would send them a bill. Not assume they know they owe me money. Get off your high horse you piece of s%&t.

Anymore outbursts like this from anyone and there will be consequences.