HEC: Munster vs Scarlets, Sunday 18 December 12:45pm; Sky Sports

thomond2006

Munster Squad (29):
Denis Fogarty, Damien Varley,
Marcus Horan, Wian du Preez, Stephen Archer, John Hayes, BJ Botha,
Donncha O'Callaghan, Donnacha Ryan, Paul O'Connell, Mick O'Driscoll, Ian Nagle, Billy Holland,
Denis Leamy, Niall Ronan, James Coughlan, Tommy O'Donnell,

Tomas O'Leary, Conor Murray,
Ian Keatley, Ronan O'Gara,
Will Chambers, Lifeimi Mafi, Danny Barnes,
Johne Murphy, Denis Hurley, Scott Deasy, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/9808.php

I'd like to see:
du Preez, Varley, Botha, Ryan, POC, Leamy, Ronan, Coughlan;
Murray, ROG, Zebo, Mafi, Barnes, Murphy, Hurley

Bench: Horan, Hayes, DOC, TOD, TOL, Keatley, Earls/Chambers

If Munster can win and deny Scarlets a bonus point, I think that would set them up to win the pool and claim a home quarter final.

Fireball07

Scarlets

I didn't realise it was on Sunday...that's kinda disappointing, I prefer Saturday games.

wixfjord

Fireball07 wrote: »

I didn't realise it was on Sunday...that's kinda disappointing, I prefer Saturday games.

Ah ****e I only realised that now too. Thought it was the game before Leinster.
Surely it would be better as the 15.40 game on Sat than Connacht Gloucester?
Atmosphere in Thomond, and every other ground, is always severely muted at that kick off time too, it's way to early.

Otacon

Scarlets

Team I'd like to see:

Starting:
Wian du Preez
Damien Varley
BJ Botha
Donnacha Ryan
Paul O'Connell
Denis Leamy
Niall Ronan
James Coughlan

Conor Murray
Ronan O'Gara
Simon Zebo
Lifeimi Mafi
Will Chambers
Johne Murphy
Denis Hurley

Replacements:
Denis Fogarty
Marcus Horan
Stephen Archer
Donncha O'Callaghan
Tommy O'Donnell
Tomas O'Leary
Ian Keatley
Keith Earls

I'm hoping we put Scarlets away in this game. We need a big result, to take pressure off the trip to Milton Keynes.

Fireball07

Scarlets

Otacon wrote: »

Team I'd like to see:

Starting:
Wian du Preez
Damien Varley
BJ Botha
Donnacha Ryan
Paul O'Connell
Denis Leamy
Niall Ronan
James Coughlan

Conor Murray
Ronan O'Gara
Simon Zebo
Lifeimi Mafi
Will Chambers
Johne Murphy
Denis Hurley

Replacements:
Denis Fogarty
Marcus Horan
Stephen Archer
Donncha O'Callaghan
Tommy O'Donnell
Tomas O'Leary
Ian Keatley
Keith Earls

I'm hoping we put Scarlets away in this game. We need a big result, to take pressure off the trip to Franklin's Gardens.

I'd like to see the same as you except Nagle ahead of DOC on the bench.


But I think Hayes and DOC will be there ahead of Archer and Nagle.

Benny Cake

Scarlets

Fireball07 wrote: »

I'd like to see the same as you except Nagle ahead of DOC on the bench.


But I think Hayes and DOC will be there ahead of Archer and Nagle.

I really don't get the Ian Nagle love-in to be honest. The guy has only 14 caps for Munster & has never played in the HC. Although he has shown promise he hasn't done enough to displace DOC in the squad.

Tony Mcgahan sees him every day in training and say what you like about Mcgahan, he's not afraid to start a young player over a more experienced head if he feels that player is ready for the step up. (Murray over O'Leary, Ryan over DOC, Coughlan over Leamy to name a few)

When Nagle is ready he'll get his chance but you have to earn the jersey & the likes of DOC is not ready to throw in the towel yet....

wixfjord

Benny Cake wrote: »

I really don't get the Ian Nagle love-in to be honest. The guy has only 14 caps for Munster & has never played in the HC. Although he has shown promise he hasn't done enough to displace DOC in the squad.

Tony Mcgahan sees him every day in training and say what you like about Mcgahan, he's not afraid to start a young player over a more experienced head if he feels that player is ready for the step up. (Murray over O'Leary, Ryan over DOC, Coughlan over Leamy to name a few)

When Nagle is ready he'll get his chance but you have to earn the jersey & the likes of DOC is not ready to throw in the towel yet....

Whether or not that is true, they're three fairly bad examples!!

Quint2010

Scarlets

Just heard Hayes' contract isnt being renewed and he's official retiring at the end of the month. A great servant.

Fireball07

Scarlets

Benny Cake wrote: »

I really don't get the Ian Nagle love-in to be honest. The guy has only 14 caps for Munster & has never played in the HC. Although he has shown promise he hasn't done enough to displace DOC in the squad.

Tony Mcgahan sees him every day in training and say what you like about Mcgahan, he's not afraid to start a young player over a more experienced head if he feels that player is ready for the step up. (Murray over O'Leary, Ryan over DOC, Coughlan over Leamy to name a few)

When Nagle is ready he'll get his chance but you have to earn the jersey & the likes of DOC is not ready to throw in the towel yet....

But he's played well almost every time he has played. And having never played in the HC, I think this would be a perfect time to start. Off the bench, don't have to bring him on but if we're in front, we can and see how he does. DOC was poor enough the last day, though I still think he has a lot to offer.

ed7890

I wouldn't throw Nagle in there in this game. I'm hoping he'll get his chance in the next batch of Pro12 games. There's no rush to put him in the squad now.

Benny Cake

Scarlets

wixfjord wrote: »

Whether or not that is true, they're three fairly bad examples!!

Not really...

Would Murray have gone to the world cup if Mcgahan had't shown faith in him?
Kidney started DOC all through the world cup even though he hadn't been playing well, Mcgahan dropped him immediately when he came home.
Leamy has been ever present under Kidney yet Mcgahan favours Coughlan.

My point is Mcgahan has many faults but he's his own man and pays little heed to reputation, if you're good enough you're old enough! He clearly feels Nagle isn't ready.

budhabob

Scarlets

Fireball07 wrote: »

DOC was poor enough the last day, though I still think he has a lot to offer.

I thought he was terrible the last day, 2 if not 3 knock ons in his relatively short cameo. If anything his level of performance has dropped since he lost his jersey. Maybe not making the bench would really give him the kick he needs. For this reason, and for futures sake I'd love to see Nagle make the bench. I genuinely cant see that happening though.

wixfjord

Benny Cake wrote: »

Not really...

Would Murray have gone to the world cup if Mcgahan had't shown faith in him?
Kidney started DOC all through the world cup even though he hadn't been playing well, Mcgahan dropped him immediately when he came home.
Leamy has been ever present under Kidney yet Mcgahan favours Coughlan.

My point is Mcgahan has many faults but he's his own man and pays little heed to reputation, if you're good enough you're old enough! He clearly feels Nagle isn't ready.

TOL was injured giving Murray the chance, and Ryan and Coughlan are certainly not young players!

Benny Cake

Scarlets

wixfjord wrote: »

TOL was injured giving Murray the chance, and Ryan and Coughlan are certainly not young players!

TOL was injured but Stringer & even Duncan Williams were ahead of Murray in many peoples eyes at that time.

You are right though, Ryan & Coughlan are not young by any means but both have displaced more experienced guys who, if you look at the world cup squad, are ahead of of them in the Irish pecking order...

Podge_irl

Benny Cake wrote: »

Tony Mcgahan sees him every day in training and say what you like about Mcgahan, he's not afraid to start a young player over a more experienced head if he feels that player is ready for the step up. (Murray over O'Leary, Ryan over DOC, Coughlan over Leamy to name a few).

Coughlan is older then Leamy and Ryan was sitting on his arse no matter how well he or DOC played til recently - he's also fairly old already.

bamboozle

Scarlets

Benny Cake wrote: »

I really don't get the Ian Nagle love-in to be honest. The guy has only 14 caps for Munster & has never played in the HC. Although he has shown promise he hasn't done enough to displace DOC in the squad.

Tony Mcgahan sees him every day in training and say what you like about Mcgahan, he's not afraid to start a young player over a more experienced head if he feels that player is ready for the step up. (Murray over O'Leary, Ryan over DOC, Coughlan over Leamy to name a few)

When Nagle is ready he'll get his chance but you have to earn the jersey & the likes of DOC is not ready to throw in the towel yet....

Donncadh Ryan is 28, James Coughlan is 31 and older than Leamy - hardly spring chickens!

wixfjord

Benny Cake wrote: »

TOL was injured but Stringer & even Duncan Williams were ahead of Murray in many peoples eyes at that time.

You are right though, Ryan & Coughlan are not young by any means but both have displaced more experienced guys who, if you look at the world cup squad, are ahead of of them in the Irish pecking order...

So you're essentially praising McGahan for picking form players then in that case.

Benny Cake

Scarlets

wixfjord wrote: »

So you're essentially praising McGahan for picking form players then in that case.

Exactly, and if Nagle was good enough he'd be in the squad.

Which part are you having difficulty with?

Benny Cake

Scarlets

bamboozle wrote: »

Donncadh Ryan is 28, James Coughlan is 31 and older than Leamy - hardly spring chickens!

I should have said inexperienced player instead of young player, my bad...

yupyup7up

Scarlets

if its the same team as last week, please move johne murphy to FB and hurley to the wing. preferably Earls on the wing and JM at FB

wixfjord

Benny Cake wrote: »

Exactly, and if Nagle was good enough he'd be in the squad.

Which part are you having difficulty with?

Well the part where you said about giving young players a chance!


Picking players on form is a prerequisite of any manger I would say (bar obviously Uncle Deccie!), but it's nothing to do with giving young players a chance.

As I say, Ryan, Coughlan certainly, and to an extent Murray aren't great examples of what you were trying to illustrate.

Benny Cake

Scarlets

wixfjord wrote: »

Well the part where you said about giving young players a chance!


Picking players on form is a prerequisite of any manger I would say (bar obviously Uncle Deccie!), but it's nothing to do with giving young players a chance.

As I say, Ryan, Coughlan certainly, and to an extent Murray aren't great examples of what you were trying to illustrate.

I think we are actually in agreement here!! I should have said inexperienced players instead of young players..... And yes, picking on form should be the norm but many coaches, (including Deccie) hide behind reputation & experience hoping a player will reward him with a return to form...

Otacon

Scarlets

How about we settle this stupid argument by mentioning Peter O'Mahony. 22 years old, starting for Munster and when POC and ROG are not around, is the captain.

Anyway, I disagree with Benny. Anytime I have seen Nagle play, he has been on of the best players on the pitch. He deserves a proper run of games to show if he is good enough.

Realistically, he will probably only get this chance during the Six Nations. Hopefully he isn't injured again.

[Jackass]

Scarlets

The only question for me in this game is will Munster get a try BP or not.

budhabob

Scarlets

yupyup7up wrote: »

if its the same team as last week, please move johne murphy to FB and hurley to the wing. preferably Earls on the wing and JM at FB

Why move/replace Hurley, he has done well at full back (bar one garryowen).

vinny chase

Scarlets

budhabob wrote: »

Why move/replace Hurley, he has done well at full back (bar one garryowen).

Yeah I agree, and I'm far from a fan of his.

I think it's the position that best utilises his attacking strengths too; he hasn't anything like out and out pace on the wing, so isn't going to worry teams there, but seems to be decent at picking a nice line to come in from, and is big and strong enough to take the hit and make the offload. The sort of broken field opportunities presented from full back I think is the best place for these skills.

Quint2010

Scarlets

I would expect Munster to win this with a BP

bamboozle

Scarlets

Quint2010 wrote: »

I would expect Munster to win this with a BP

as would i although the early kick off might result in a muted atmostphere and a poorer performance.

Benny Cake

Scarlets

bamboozle wrote: »

as would i although the early kick off might result in a muted atmostphere and a poorer performance.

I hate early Sunday kick-offs, thing is nearly over by the time the crowd get into it...

premierstone

yupyup7up wrote: »

if its the same team as last week, please move johne murphy to FB and hurley to the wing. preferably Earls on the wing and JM at FB

Couldnt disagree with this more tbh, Hurley is far more suited to FB than the wing and is a good counter attack option there, whereas Murphy has looked very uncertain FB and doesnt seem the read the game, not really he's fault as he's not a FB.

Ideally of course neither would be playing but such is the deck we have been dealt.

Fireball07

Scarlets

yupyup7up wrote: »

if its the same team as last week, please move johne murphy to FB and hurley to the wing. preferably Earls on the wing and JM at FB

As has already been asked, why?? Hurley has done well at full-back. Created our only try last week from full-back, and those are the kind of opportunities he will create when he plays there. His offloading in the tackle is pretty good, and he's a strong runner. Despite our memories of the 2008 HC Final, he's pretty decent under a high ball and his kicking is good enough too. (Bar that one garryowen)

[Jackass] wrote: »

The only question for me in this game is will Munster get a try BP or not.

The fact that Munster have had problems scoring tries all year hasn't changed. I really think people are underestimating Llanelli. Unless they totally give up and collapse, I can't see us getting a bonus point.

I'll settle for not letting them get a LBP.

ed7890

Fireball07 wrote: »

The fact that Munster have had problems scoring tries all year hasn't changed. I really think people are underestimating Llanelli. Unless they totally give up and collapse, I can't see us getting a bonus point.

I'll settle for not letting them get a LBP.

I'll settle for Munster just winning. Scarlets are still a very dangerous team in loose play. If we make any mistakes they could really punish us.

phog

11 of the 24 teams have scored Try BPs, 2 of which lost their game. No Team have 2 Try BPs, that may change this week-end. Only one team (Clermont) have a double figure try count. the rest have less than 10.

I would be hopeful if we can get ahead early and take the pressure off then we might see a few tries but most important is to win, if that's a last minute DG from ROG than I'll be happy.

We lost enough tight games by one or two points so by winning a few of them by a DG is sweet.

.ak

I'm surprised at the poll results... Most of the Munster fans this season have been quite pessimistic this year, and going into games generally thinking they'll scrape by.

The funny part is they've done just that in the Hcup atleast.

I think Scarlets were shockingly bad last week, and some of Munster's younger plays shone through with ROG and POC just about controlling matters...

Generally speaking I'd never put money against Munster losing at Thomond, but then again I wouldn't have put money on the Saints loosing at home to the Scarlets either...

I think Munster will win it, but just... Don't be surprised to see a much improved Scarlets side playing out of their skin.

Trojan

Scarlets

Voting Munster - don't think Scarlets have what it takes to beat them in Limerick after last weeks game (I think Scarlets have the better squad, but that's not always the important factor).

Benny Cake

Scarlets

Fancy Munster to win but there is value in backing Scarlets to cover the +9 spread. Munster have been winning but not putting teams away.

Fishooks12

Don't like the talk of BP's here and I hope the team don't start thinking along the same lines.

Still think we'll win but anything else would be a huge plus

Fishooks12

Don't like the talk of BP's here and I hope the team don't start thinking along the same lines.

Still think we'll win but anything else would be a huge plus

Fireball07

Scarlets

.ak wrote: »

I'm surprised at the poll results... Most of the Munster fans this season have been quite pessimistic this year, and going into games generally thinking they'll scrape by.

The funny part is they've done just that in the Hcup atleast.

I think Scarlets were shockingly bad last week, and some of Munster's younger plays shone through with ROG and POC just about controlling matters...

Generally speaking I'd never put money against Munster losing at Thomond, but then again I wouldn't have put money on the Saints loosing at home to the Scarlets either...

I think Munster will win it, but just... Don't be surprised to see a much improved Scarlets side playing out of their skin.

I voted for Llanelli last week but I'd always vote for Munster at home. Even when we did fairly badly last year, we won the home games. I wouldn't be surprised if Llanelli won, I still think they could be very dangerous, they've got nothing to lose by throwing everything at Munster. But I think we'll just do it.

totallegend

Scarlets

Benny Cake wrote: »

Fancy Munster to win but there is value in backing Scarlets to cover the +9 spread. Munster have been winning but not putting teams away.

Munster will win at a canter, should be looking for a 5 point haul out of this

Webbs

totallegend wrote: »

Munster will win at a canter, should be looking for a 5 point haul out of this

What specifically makes you think they will win at a canter?

For me the Scarlets probably wont play as badly as they did last week (they were pretty shocking), North is back for them which is a big boost for the team, I wouldnt expect Priestland to miss so many kicks so for me it will be another tight game

Auvers

Scarlets

Webbs wrote: »

What specifically makes you think they will win at a canter?

the pack will destroy the Scarlets, tis hard for a backline to function if they don't get the ball

Flincher

Rhys Thomas and Aaron Shingler are both doubts for the weekend.

du Preez and Thomas were an even enough match on that side of the scrum. I wouldn't be a massive Deacon Manu fan. I think WdP would have the edge over him in the scrum, and with Botha having Iestyn Thomas' number, we could put Llanelli under even more pressure at the scrum.

We need another big game from Botha and du Preez. We need to strangle that Llanelli pack. Forget about bonus points, ROG needs to find the corners, and then compete on their ball. Llanelli's second row is weak. They haven't stolen a lineout in Europe this year.

Murray needs to be sharp, and clever with his distribution. He needs to bring the ball carriers around the corner and into contact. We've had a bit too much static ball carrying for my liking. If you look at Dougie's try against Castres, Murray brought the forwards onto the ball at angles, and we made good ground up the middle of the pitch.

I think that is how we're going to beat them. Strong set piece, and clever ball carrying.

NikNak8

There is a lot of Hype about the Scarlets and thats all it is HYPE! Its because or their win against the Saints in front of Sky Sports Cameras. If anyone beats an English favorite they are automatically world beaters. They are behind Glasgow and Treviso in the Magners League. World Beaters I think not!
Munster should win but as we have all seen in the past shoulds don't always turn out as expected!
Good to see that this is a sell out, puts it in perspective when a crowd of just over 13,000 was a record for the Scarlets last weekend. If Munster had only 13,000 this weekend McGahan would be out of a job!
Mumhan Abu!

wixfjord

Munster will absolutely annihilate Scarlets this week. The big question is whether they can get tries.
Any odds up yet?

totallegend

Scarlets

This perception of Coughlan as an up and coming youngster always cracks me up

onlyrocknroll

Scarlets

This is the first Munster HC match thread this season where somebody hasn't said "Munster don't have a hope of winning" :rolleyes:

Can somebody please say it to bring us good luck.

Fireball07

Scarlets

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

This is the first Munster HC match thread this season where somebody hasn't said "Munster don't have a hope of winning" :rolleyes:

Can somebody please say it to bring us good luck.

Kinda true but we were slightly optimistic about Castres.

But the last time I was confident was against Ospreys and we fcuked that up pretty badly. I would be amazed if we hammered them. I do think we'll win though.

wixfjord

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

This is the first Munster HC match thread this season where somebody hasn't said "Munster don't have a hope of winning" :rolleyes:

Can somebody please say it to bring us good luck.

Except last week and Castres is it?!

onlyrocknroll

Scarlets

Fireball07 wrote: »

Kinda true but we were slightly optimistic about Castres.

But the last time I was confident was against Ospreys and we fcuked that up pretty badly. I would be amazed if we hammered them. I do think we'll win though.

I certainly thought we could've lost the first three games, in fact if I were a neutral I'd have bet on Castres.

What I'm talking about is that in each match threads at least one person said we were definitely going to lose, or that there was no chance of us winning, or something to that effect.

CoDy1

Scarlets

wixfjord wrote: »

Munster will absolutely annihilate Scarlets this week. The big question is whether they can get tries.
Any odds up yet?

PP have Munster -9 atm.