BBC Radio

Markdub2000

is there any chance we could get the beeb to relay their radio stations down here?

I drove into work this morning and honestly I changed station 8 times before shutting off the radio!

the constant eh,,,eh,,,ehh on radio 1 and the ad breaks on the others are ridiculous.

Is the only reason we cant have them because they'd kill all the others?

Am I the only one who thinks this??

They have bbc on FM band on the continent...can we not have a similar service here??

mike65

There are options in the home, SKY and NTL carry the primary BBC stations, it would be great if say DAB carried them here but I suspect that opens up wider rights issues esp for 5live.

rlogue

Markdub2000 wrote: »

is there any chance we could get the beeb to relay their radio stations down here?

I drove into work this morning and honestly I changed station 8 times before shutting off the radio!

the constant eh,,,eh,,,ehh on radio 1 and the ad breaks on the others are ridiculous.

Is the only reason we cant have them because they'd kill all the others?

Am I the only one who thinks this??

They have bbc on FM band on the continent...can we not have a similar service here??

This would be ideal for DAB in Ireland and might possibly drive sales of DAB Radios in the Republic, however I believe RTE nixed the idea of BBC Radio on Irish DAB (to keep our airwaves pure??).

Meanwhile I'd suggest you do what I do and listen online using a smartphone. I listen to Lyric and Radio 1 on my 90 minute car journey to and from work every day using the Bluetooth function in my car radio. RTE have created a great player app for Radio for iphones and offers listen again as well as live radio.

There is also a Reciva app that allows you to tune into any online radio station including all the BBC radio stations.

watty

RTE management had said BBC goes on DAB over their dead bodies.

Mobile your only routes are R4 LW (day and night) and MW at night. Assuming a decent 75cm car aerial not a totally useless "bee sting" or worse "shark fin", both of which are marketing driven absolute rubbish. Especially the "shark fin".

If you have good 3G signal and good data package you might be able to stream them from Internet.


At home I use an extra dedicated satellite receiver and a €6 "iTrip" type CE legal FM transmitter with RCA plugs to 3.5mm jack for audio and an external +5V PSU. Then all the FM sets in the house work.

DAB coverage and quality in Ireland is rubbish anyway. R4 LW is better Irish coverage. DAB is obsolete and inferior to VHF-FM in quality and coverage unless you have much less channels on a DAB mux and x6 as many DAB transmitters as VHF-FM.

Macy0161

I can normally get reasonable mw 5 live reception around Dublin in the car, when I'm inclined to try.

I tried a DAB portable radio up here in the mountains a year or so ago with no joy. Is there any DAB overspill from Wales? I'll have a decent enough VHF aerial available at aso...

mike65 wrote: »

I suspect that opens up wider rights issues esp for 5live.

5live online is fairly restricted at weekends due to rights issues.

Which leads me to ask about this...

watty wrote:

At home I use an extra dedicated satellite receiver and a €6 "iTrip" type CE legal FM transmitter with RCA plugs to 3.5mm jack for audio and an external +5V PSU. Then all the FM sets in the house work.

Is that without modification? What type of range do they have? Very interested in this approach. As I'm out of DAB range, it could work for me with my old (and Watty's favourite) Picnic.

watty wrote:

DAB coverage and quality in Ireland is rubbish anyway. R4 LW is better Irish coverage. DAB is obsolete and inferior to VHF-FM in quality and coverage unless you have much less channels on a DAB mux and x6 as many DAB transmitters as VHF-FM.

Regardless of the standard, there's some very strange nulls on some of the transmitters for DAB. For example, Kippure doesn't appear to broadcast to the south at all for some reason.

For as much as RTE Radio seem to be pushing digital radio through ads, they're not making it easy for people to get it. Not helped by not even publicising them being on saorview, and them not being on satellite.

Markdub2000

watty wrote: »

RTE management had said BBC goes on DAB over their dead bodies.

As a public service broadcaster, ie to serve the public, surely its time that the beeb were given a mux! - I thought thats what the "All Ireland" agreement was all about and the no frontiers broadcasting directive was all about...

We need a little bit more choice other than toilet humour with ads and economic doom and gloom with ads... and ads with ads...

watty

Macy0161 wrote: »

Which leads me to ask about this...

Is that without modification? What type of range do they have? Very interested in this approach.

It covers all the house and to bottom of driveway. Some cheap FM radios will tune it and some won't (€2 to €8).

It's great on my Sony ICF2001D, Yaesu VR500, Yaesu FT817ND, JVC AM/FM with 2" TV, Old Hitachi "world band", Clock Radio and ancient 1950s Siemens Germany valve set (only goes to 100MHz).

Erratic on lidl wireless headphones that have FM radio. Fine on €2 Euroshop "scan type" pocket radio/torch.

The only "extra" I have is a pair of ferrite mains cable clamp on gadgets sold to reduce interference. One is on the audio cable about 1m from the transmitter and one on the DC power cable about 1m from transmitter. Without those there is a background buzz if sat receiver is on or external power rather than battery.

Any modification to add an aerial or boost power would be illegal. I did as an experiment connect a PIC micro based RDS generator to the internal 19kHz/38kHz/Audio point of PCB and was able to have RDS tag of MP3s played on WinAmp.

I have a second one on PC (without the RDS, that was a once off experiment) that has my music files, 2 x sat cards, dual USB DTT and obviously Internet Radio.
The only RDS receiver I have is the car radio. That works fine in driveway and front of house in the street.

In my experience there are only about 3 chips used in current "iTrip" type gadgets and almost no quality difference between a €4 model and €70 version. Some don't work properly on battery as the chip uses 2.75V to 3.3V and the battery compartment only for a single AAA 1.5V cell! Most have either a 2.5mm coax jack or mini-USB for external 5V anyway.

The difference between the 3 chips used is:

1. Basic version is about 5 pins to set channel via binary code. Often the slide switch can only do a subset of possible channels. No display.
2. Version that does all FM channels and a small CPU with serial data sets channel. These usually have an LCD display.
3. Enhanced version with USB port for MP3 tags and RDS generation. Often RDS tags only work with iPhone/iPod etc as it's on an Apple connector.

The actual audio quality / modulation and Stereo technique is identical on them all apart from the really obsolete models that likely are before CE approval scheme.

Most 5V phone chargers seem to be rubbish generating huge amounts of interference to all nearby radios before you even try it. Needless to say I didn't find a single 5V phone power unit that didn't put a mad buzz if used as PSU.

Macy0161

Thanks Watty, something I'll definitely be trying in coming weeks/ months!

watty

Markdub2000 wrote: »

As a public service broadcaster, ie to serve the public, surely its time that the beeb were given a mux! - I thought thats what the "All Ireland" agreement was all about and the no frontiers broadcasting directive was all about...

We need a little bit more choice other than toilet humour with ads and economic doom and gloom with ads... and ads with ads...

No.

The all Ireland agreement is about keeping the Nationalists and Republicans up North happy and the "no frontiers broadcasting directive" is about not actively blocking your neighbour's overspill. We get free "overspill" of UK Satellite, UK LW day & night and UK MW at night. Some places get UK VHF Radio and daytime MW. DAB coverage range is poor even in UK, (and quality terrible anyway), getting UK DTT is easier!

Antenna

watty wrote: »

or worse "shark fin", both of which are marketing driven absolute rubbish. Especially the "shark fin".

Most fin aerials are actually not for the car radio at all but for GPS (and mobile phone) - On cars with just those fin aerials (or no external aerial at all) - the rear window usually has printed aerials for FM/AM on it with the demister - often two lines from top to bottom for FM (two FM aerials for diversity reception) and a horizontal aerial for AM printed on top of the window. But easily inferior to a beesting aerial (not to mind an approx 75cm whip)

There are also aftermarket fin aerials to replace beestings which will badly degrade reception. Signal strengths of the main FM stations are strong in cities with the result many listeners don't notice any serious problem until they drive outside the city and loose stations in places where they should be receiveable.

Someone who doesn't care about good radio reception?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74232062

watty

There used to even be "after market" kits for conversion of rear screens.

The "fin" is only "good" for GPS. It's too small for GSM 900. They are not that great even for GPS or GSM1800.

The only decent FM aerial which is a compromise for LW/MW, but best available now for FM also is the approximately 75cm whip.

rlogue

We have appalling RTE LW reception here in London in the car. In my house with a long wire aerial providing all my satellite and computer equipment is turned off it's excellent.

What's the best whip length for optimum LW reception in the car? I also have a ridiculous bee sting thing on the back of my car.

homer911

An internet radio would seem to be the answer, at least within the home, but they are so darn expensive at the moment

Anyone any links to internet radios for less than €40?

MW reception at this time of the year is great,low atmospherics or something.
I listen to BBC 5 Live (693/909),Talksport (1053/1089) and Absolute (1215) in the car,in the Sligo area,and they are clear enough but in the summer months they are just white noise.

Reg'stoy

homer911 wrote: »

An internet radio would seem to be the answer, at least within the home, but they are so darn expensive at the moment

Anyone any links to internet radios for less than €40?

Buy an FM radio transmitter which you can plug in to your PC/Laptop and broadcast to any of your radios with in the home.

This site is handy for UK based radio stations.

If you want a fairly cheap internet radio powercity do this one for €45

Garlic Suplmnt

I listen to boiled ****e

Aepos

Hi, I have an old sky box in the attic tuned to radio 4, this is fed from a spare feed from an LNB on the freesat dish. The audio outputs are then fed to a small FM transmitter (a few milliwats) tuned to an empty FM frequency. I have a gadget attached to the sky box which if the power is interrupted resets the receiver to R4 on power up. This set up gives me BBC Radio 4 throughout the house and don't have to listen to hours and hours of constantly repeated gloom and doom from RTE Radio 1. It and Lyric FM are the saviors of my sanity.

The signal from this setup goes no further than the perimeter of my property.

A lot of bother to go to....Sure, but well worth it.

Ae

watty

rlogue wrote: »

We have appalling RTE LW reception here in London in the car. In my house with a long wire aerial providing all my satellite and computer equipment is turned off it's excellent.

What's the best whip length for optimum LW reception in the car? I also have a ridiculous bee sting thing on the back of my car.

One of those fibreglass wing mounted whips about 3m long popular in 1970s. You'd want a 75cm for VHF and diplexer.

A 1/4 of 1500m is optimum whip size for LW!


Realistically on a roof the 75cm is max. Any longer and VHF suffers. I have some large specialist aerials. One uses a triangle of THREE large magnetic mounts. Not for everyday use.

Good quality car radios have two adjustable coils, for LW and MW, that you adjust to best match the the aerial length.

At home you'll find a tuned loop like on my Hergé can be turned to Null out interference and is much higher performance than a Ferrite rod and far less interference pickup than the long wire.

My Siemens Valve radio has a circuit to add the VHF aerial in antiphase to LW/MW ferrite rod (which is on a pivot to avoid having to rotate the radio). This picks up local interference on LW & MW much better than the radio waves (near field effect) and thus cancels out the noise picked up on the Ferrite rod. It's quite amazing R4 LW (day & night) and 810kHz R.Scotland at night.

lawhec

Markdub2000 wrote: »

They have bbc on FM band on the continent.

Since when? The only BBC radio broadcasts on FM I know on the European mainland are BBC World Service relays in a few cities.

The BBC's current charter doesn't allow them to intentionally transmit to audiences outside of the UK for its domestic services, on the odd occasion they do be carried on test services within a limited field trial e.g. L-Band DAB tests in Germany and the mid-2000 DVB-T trail in Dublin (BBC3 & BBC4, encrypted), but permanent domestic services are UK only, allowing for terrestrial and satellite overspill.

Digifriendly

Aepos wrote: »

Hi, I have an old sky box in the attic tuned to radio 4, this is fed from a spare feed from an LNB on the freesat dish. The audio outputs are then fed to a small FM transmitter (a few milliwats) tuned to an empty FM frequency. I have a gadget attached to the sky box which if the power is interrupted resets the receiver to R4 on power up. This set up gives me BBC Radio 4 throughout the house and don't have to listen to hours and hours of constantly repeated gloom and doom from RTE Radio 1. It and Lyric FM are the saviors of my sanity.

The signal from this setup goes no further than the perimeter of my property.

A lot of bother to go to....Sure, but well worth it.

Ae

How is a dish Freesat? Surely you mean a satellite dish that can feed both Sky and Freesat boxes?

Aepos

digifriendly,

your comment is somewhat unfriendly and makes absolutely no difference to the content of my post.

You are correct a dish is a dish be it for serving apple and custard, sky TV or even freesat!

Happy Christmas or whatever!

Ae

Digifriendly

Aepos wrote: »

digifriendly,

your comment is somewhat unfriendly and makes absolutely no difference to the content of my post.

You are correct a dish is a dish be it for serving apple and custard, sky TV or even freesat!

Happy Christmas or whatever!

Ae

Apologies and not at all meaning to be unfriendly but 'Freesat dish' sounded a bit like 'digital aerial' to me. Anyway i get the drift of your original post which is fascinating re listening to Radio 4 as it shows an interest in ROI in what might be considered a very English station if you see what I mean.

Aepos

No probs, yes the Digital Antenna always fascinated me as well.

I do find the Beebs R4 a very good station, I understand that it has a huge listener base in this country and the Today programme is more or less mandatory listening for the early morning presenters of RTE Radio 1.

Anyhow compliments of the season from Aepos.

Onthe3rdDay

Digifriendly wrote: »

Anyway i get the drift of your original post which is fascinating re listening to Radio 4 as it shows an interest in ROI in what might be considered a very English station if you see what I mean.

Most people in the republic that I know listen to Radio 4 or Radio 5, especially in the car. In the North almost no one I know listens to Radio 4, and that's both sides of the community.

It's very odd how many people follow the Archers in West Cork. However, if you want any sort of audio Drama you have to head in Radio 4's direction. RTE Radio One has almost nothing compared to 30 years ago.

A proper survey would be interesting.

watty

Yes,
The problem with surveys is that with the wrong questions or question missing or clever phrasing you can get the answer you want.

An RTE designed survey isn't likely to ask the right questions.

watty

Did you know that "audio drama", even Radio Soaps and "Sound Theatre" predates Radio by maybe forty years?

The original Audio Drama in US was available on phone before radio started. Also from inception of Phonograph (cylinders) and Gramophone (discs) there was "pre recorded" "Audio Theater" [sic] available to purchase, rent or from Libraries!

This is why Radio drama even in mid 1920s is suddenly there and a "polished" mature format.

There is still a big demand and of course many of the shows from 1930s to 1950s are on MP3 download (many perhaps legitimately).

Radio drama has the advantage over books and TV that you can listen while digging garden, cooking, sowing/knitting, model making, bricklaying, driving, mountain climbing or whatever.

It varies from "soaps", straight Audio adaptation of books, Stage plays Plays and Re-worked TV or Films adapted for Radio and drama written especially for Radio from radio from the insane comedy of Goons, through The crazy BBC "Hut 33", written for Radio "Dr Who", "War of the Worlds" and loads of "one off" drama.

watty

Is Radio Dead?

Should RTE rethink RTE1 and 2FM?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/may/12/radio-4-rajars-the-archers
May 2011. BBC R4 hits 11Million

Contrast so called "Flag ship" TV (Reality TV junk?) supposedly Brilliant "strictly Come Dancing"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16237072
12 Million.

But if Broadcasters world wide continue to Promote "Digital", Online non-linear programming and continue closing AM MW. LW and SW Radio they will kill Radio.

The listeners want proper scheduled Radio with quality content.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio4/2011/10/rajar_listening_figures_for_q3.html

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Is Radio Dead?



But if Broadcasters world wide continue to Promote "Digital", Online non-linear programming and continue closing AM MW. LW and SW Radio they will kill Radio.

The listeners want proper scheduled Radio with quality content.

I agree with you. I find it hard to credit plans to do away with FM radio in the UK. FM radio is almost the perfect radio format. It can be received on a €2 scanning radio, up to hifi quality. The aerial requirements are simple for local coverage, and there is room on the band for plenty of stations. It is cheap to get up and running with no great expense on equipment. Most of all, it favours local stations, as the coverage is mainly localised.

It is a shame that RTE had to get rid of its local radio stations, and has dumbed down its national coverage. They have become too personality driven. Morning Ireland is one of their best programmes and that is not personality driven - just duty journos.

Do away with programmes that have the presenters name.

Onthe3rdDay

watty wrote: »

Did you know that "audio drama", even Radio Soaps and "Sound Theatre" predates Radio by maybe forty years?

The original Audio Drama in US was available on phone before radio started. Also from inception of Phonograph (cylinders) and Gramophone (discs) there was "pre recorded" "Audio Theater" [sic] available to purchase, rent or from Libraries!

This is why Radio drama even in mid 1920s is suddenly there and a "polished" mature format.

There is still a big demand and of course many of the shows from 1930s to 1950s are on MP3 download (many perhaps legitimately).

Radio drama has the advantage over books and TV that you can listen while digging garden, cooking, sowing/knitting, model making, bricklaying, driving, mountain climbing or whatever.

It varies from "soaps", straight Audio adaptation of books, Stage plays Plays and Re-worked TV or Films adapted for Radio and drama written especially for Radio from radio from the insane comedy of Goons, through The crazy BBC "Hut 33", written for Radio "Dr Who", "War of the Worlds" and loads of "one off" drama.

One of the most impressive systems was the Telefon Hirmondo in Hungry. It even had a schedule which looks remarkably similar to what we're used to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telefon_H%C3%ADrmond%C3%B3

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

I agree with you. I find it hard to credit plans to do away with FM radio in the UK. FM radio is almost the perfect radio format. It can be received on a €2 scanning radio, up to hifi quality. The aerial requirements are simple for local coverage, and there is room on the band for plenty of stations. It is cheap to get up and running with no great expense on equipment. Most of all, it favours local stations, as the coverage is mainly localised.

It is a shame that RTE had to get rid of its local radio stations, and has dumbed down its national coverage. They have become too personality driven. Morning Ireland is one of their best programmes and that is not personality driven - just duty journos.

Do away with programmes that have the presenters name.

Bravo

Actually they have quietly abandoned any plan to close FM. No-one else has any such plan.

FM could easily have been extended to 76 .. 108 or 64 .. 108 as the 64Mhz to 87MHz is only use for Mobile Radio otherwise which is largely replaced by mobile phone. Plenty of FM chipsets and radio do from 76 for Japan and Eastern Europe uses/used the 64MHz to 80MHz approx.

Band III used for DAB is too limited in coverage and prone to black spots. But again for local & Community Radio after Band III TV closed adding 20MHz for FM on 175MHz to 195MHz would have worked and a cheap adaptor possible for existing FM radios (similar to the €8 adaptor to allow Jap Car Radios to work on 92 to 108).

Originally FM was only 88MHz to 100MHz. Rather than that far to early poor and bleeding edge DAB back in the day they should just have extended FM again.

Until wide spread availability of DRM built into Radio sets, the LW, MW and SW services for National and International Radio should have been kept. It's terrible how much has been closed across Europe with assumption that listeners can use Satellite, Internet and FM instead. It's "bean counter" decisions, nothing to do with PSB remits and provision to real public.

RTE claimed no-one was using MW RTE1 and 2FM. A lie. Yet they did NOT improve FM coverage before the Closedown and RTE1 LW suffers Algerian Interference in France and SE England (Night time Irish MW was available to most of Europe and daytime to N.I. and west of England/Wales as well as filling Irish FM balckspots on pocket radios)

watty

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

One of the most impressive systems was the Telefon Hirmondo in Hungry. It even had a schedule which looks remarkably similar to what we're used to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telefon_H%C3%ADrmond%C3%B3

In 1988 when I was in USA people listening on "speaker phone" to local "wired radio". Never possible in Ireland due to insane local phone charges. Many places in States local calls are free and people even use speaker phones as house to house intercom.

I don't know if there was a subscription, or a one time fee when you dialled or how the "station" in Brooklyn was funded.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Actually they have quietly abandoned any plan to close FM. No-one else has any such plan.

If that is true, it is good news. I think they were fiddling the figures on the number of people able to listen to it, counting those who had the equipment to hear it as audience figures.

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

If that is true, it is good news. I think they were fiddling the figures on the number of people able to listen to it, counting those who had the equipment to hear it as audience figures.

They also counted Satellite, DTT and Internet, i.e. ANY Digital source.

Sam Russell

@Watty, you say RTE did not improve FM coverage after the MW transmitter went off air. How would they have done that? Just turn up the wick, or increase the number of transmitters?

watty

More Transmitters needed.

STB

watty wrote: »

Actually they have quietly abandoned any plan to close FM. No-one else has any such plan.

Of course the biggest opponents to DAB have been the present Independent (FM) radio licence holders. Protect what you have. They don't want any more competitors. They want less! That alone will protect the FM platform for the foreseeable future. A lot of independent stations that were embracing DAB 3 years back with DAB idents were doing so purely for the vanity badge. Mind you Dusty's trial from Three Rock is over, isn't it ? I would love to see the listenership results for DAB. Andy Linton still has his trial on the South East as far as I know. I wonder what his tracking has been like.

Certainly RTE would see themselves as having been very clever on the DAB front creating several genre stations with an eye to the future. IMO Its still far too soon to be pushing it. Its been a mess in the UK.

AM is quite expensive to run (just ask the guys at Spirit whose licence dictates that they must have the AM TX on by a certain time). I think the thinking behind the closure of Athlone was akin to the TX cutbacks for TV. The less to maintain the better. The justification for same was that most new cars don't have even have the functionality for MW.

watty wrote: »

Band III used for DAB is too limited in coverage and prone to black spots. But again for local & Community Radio after Band III TV closed adding 20MHz for FM on 175MHz to 195MHz would have worked and a cheap adaptor possible for existing FM radios (similar to the €8 adaptor to allow Jap Car Radios to work on 92 to 108).

Originally FM was only 88MHz to 100MHz. Rather than that far to early poor and bleeding edge DAB back in the day they should just have extended FM again.

An argument that Classic Hits 98fm put across that allowed them keep that frequency that had been temporarily assigned to them when first licensed.

There are plenty of gadgets out there that can rebroadcast audio on FM. I have a few FM transmitters lying around, and from memory not one of them is legal especially the 50w one! In the the US they have laws that set it at .01 of a microwatt for FM Ipod usage. You could easily get away with a well tuned and clean 1 watt exciter. Besides the pirates, the worst offenders of illegal broadcasting are the church themselves with dirty cheap medium powered TXs, broadcasting mass, despite been given part of the CB band for such use.

Wired Radio was used for years in Hospital radio in Ireland prior to FM licences being handed out. The quality was s hite.

watty

Most new cars DO have MW-AM but lots of AM Radios not LW-AM that RTE uses. Same with all Aldi/Lidl car radios.

You are more likely to have AM (with LW likely) than DAB.

Fuzzy Clam

Sam Russell wrote: »

@Watty, you say RTE did not improve FM coverage after the MW transmitter went off air. How would they have done that? Just turn up the wick, or increase the number of transmitters?

That's not entirely accurate. I know or one, possibly 2, new transmitters that have taken to air since the MW closure.

Fuzzy Clam

STB wrote: »

An argument that Classic Hits 98fm put across that allowed them keep that frequency that had been temporarily assigned to them when first licensed.

What are you talking about?:rolleyes:

CrowdedHouse

watty wrote: »

Most new cars DO have MW-AM but lots of AM Radios not LW-AM that RTE uses.

True my 2011 car does not have Long Wave, it has Medium Wave and bizarrely Short Wave !

Digifriendly

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

True my 2011 car does not have Long Wave, it has Medium Wave and bizarrely Short Wave !

Sometimes LW is hidden. I bought a car (Renault Megane) that wasn't new and LW facility had been turned off and was hidden. Only when I checked the radio manual was I able to locate it and activate LW and I'm grateful I was able to for RTE1 FM signal deteriorates in certain parts of the north e.g. around Hollywood and parts of Bangor so 252 comes in very handy.

lawhec

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

What are you talking about?:rolleyes:

If the story I heard is correct, at the initial time both 98FM and FM104 (as they are now known) were awarded their FM licences by the IRTC both stations were initially allocated 105.5 and 104.4 MHz respectively. 98FM complained that the majority of FM radios in the Dublin area could not tune up to 105.5MHz at the time (many were 88-100 or 88-104MHz) they asked for a lower frequency to broadcast from. The IRTC offered them 98.1MHz on an ongoing temporary basis, allegedly (but not ever proven) telling them that in due course they'd be asked to move to a different frequency since that frequency was allocated to Three Rock for a future service in the sub-band where Lyric FM now broadcasts. Before Lyric FM started, the IRTC looked to get 98FM to a new frequency but the broadcaster objected, saying that their frequency was now so heavily attached to the station brand. Eventually Lyric FM from Three Rock was allocated 96.7MHz and 98FM stayed put. 105.5MHz today is used for Today FM at Clermont Carn, which is listenable in many parts of the city.

STB

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

What are you talking about?:rolleyes:

Something you dont know about, quite obviously

:rolleyes: Yourself.

Lawhec gave you the answer.

dxhound2005

lawhec wrote: »

If the story I heard is correct, at the initial time both 98FM and FM104 (as they are now known) were awarded their FM licences by the IRTC both stations were initially allocated 105.5 and 104.4 MHz respectively. 98FM complained that the majority of FM radios in the Dublin area could not tune up to 105.5MHz at the time (many were 88-100 or 88-104MHz) they asked for a lower frequency to broadcast from. The IRTC offered them 98.1MHz on an ongoing temporary basis, allegedly (but not ever proven) telling them that in due course they'd be asked to move to a different frequency since that frequency was allocated to Three Rock for a future service in the sub-band where Lyric FM now broadcasts. Before Lyric FM started, the IRTC looked to get 98FM to a new frequency but the broadcaster objected, saying that their frequency was now so heavily attached to the station brand. Eventually Lyric FM from Three Rock was allocated 96.7MHz and 98FM stayed put. 105.5MHz today is used for Today FM at Clermont Carn, which is listenable in many parts of the city.

I'm not old enough to remember but there must have been some protest from owners of FM radios that only went up to 100 or 104 when the band was extended to 108. If you are buying an old Roberts or such like on eBay it might only cover up to 104 or 100 or maybe no FM at all. But then I see that even up to this day all the FM transmitters in England for Radios 1,2,3 and 4 are still under 100 so this would have minimised any protest over there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/transmitters/radio/england_fm.shtml

There are still not that many BBC services above 104 anywhere in the UK I think. One of the exceptions is Radio 4 on 104.6 from Camlough which I listen to. Being in Dundalk all BBC services on FM are easy to get.

watty

Hardly likely because no-one LOST a service that they already had. The Extension largely used gradually for new Commercial channels.

Also UK Roll out was VERY slow taking from about 1955 to maybe 1980. Very few transistor sets limited to 104 and virtually no transistor sets limited to 100.

watty

BTW has anyone got a definitive date for Irish VHF-FM commencing and when the RTE service roll out nationally completed?

Fuzzy Clam

STB wrote: »

Something you dont know about, quite obviously

:rolleyes: Yourself.

Lawhec gave you the answer.

Oh dear. The story that Lawhec gives is what I understand to be true. Quote "saying that their frequency was now so heavily attached to the station brand." That is not what you said in your post in your reply to Watty. You inferred that it was because of the 88-100 issue. At no point did you state the actual reason.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

BTW has anyone got a definitive date for Irish VHF-FM commencing and when the RTE service roll out nationally completed?

Not a definitive answer but in an RTE booklet I have it states "The first transmitter in the national VHF system was brought into service in July 1966 and the network was completed the following year".
Some may argue that it's still not completed

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

Hardly likely because no-one LOST a service that they already had. The Extension largely used gradually for new Commercial channels.

I think, and i'm open to correction here, that the first legal transmitter here above 100 Mhz was RnaG on 102.7 from Clermont Carn. Strangely, RTE were allocated the frequencies used by the pirate station Radio Nova. 88.1 or 5 (or both) and 102.7.
Up to about 1982, this section of the band was underused except for the occasional pirate. In Dublin, several small pirates used frequencies up around 104 but it was Kiss FM in 102.7 (and later Nova) that really opened up that end of the band.

STB

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Oh dear. The story that Lawhec gives is what I understand to be true. Quote "saying that their frequency was now so heavily attached to the station brand." That is not what you said in your post in your reply to Watty. You inferred that it was because of the 88-100 issue. At no point did you state the actual reason.

Why the agressive know it all tone ? No need for that.

What part did you not understand ? My understanding (like lawhecs) from having worked in the game and having heard the stories that Peter Gibney, 98's Engineer proved to the IRTC that certain radio's (inlcuding the old valve type) didnt go over 100 at the very start.

lawhec wrote: »

If the story I heard is correct, at the initial time both 98FM and FM104 (as they are now known) were awarded their FM licences by the IRTC both stations were initially allocated 105.5 and 104.4 MHz respectively. 98FM complained that the majority of FM radios in the Dublin area could not tune up to 105.5MHz at the time (many were 88-100 or 88-104MHz) they asked for a lower frequency to broadcast from. The IRTC offered them 98.1MHz on an ongoing temporary basis, allegedly (but not ever proven) telling them that in due course they'd be asked to move to a different frequency since that frequency was allocated to Three Rock for a future service in the sub-band where Lyric FM now broadcasts. Before Lyric FM started, the IRTC looked to get 98FM to a new frequency but the broadcaster objected, saying that their frequency was now so heavily attached to the station brand. Eventually Lyric FM from Three Rock was allocated 96.7MHz and 98FM stayed put. 105.5MHz today is used for Today FM at Clermont Carn, which is listenable in many parts of the city.

watty

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I think, and i'm open to correction here, that the first legal transmitter here above 100 Mhz was RnaG on 102.7 from Clermont Carn. Strangely, RTE were allocated the frequencies used by the pirate station Radio Nova. 88.1 or 5 (or both) and 102.7.
Up to about 1982, this section of the band was underused except for the occasional pirate. In Dublin, several small pirates used frequencies up around 104 but it was Kiss FM in 102.7 (and later Nova) that really opened up that end of the band.

But likely then most VHF sets bought 1966 and later had at least 104 and probably 108.

Many manufacturers (Philips, Pye, Murphy and others) in 1949 to 1965 made models especially for Irish Market, some times identical to UK or mainland Europe model but lacking the VHF circuitry, so though Germany had VHF-FM from 1949 and UK from 1955 there would have been virtually none of the 88-100MHz only sets sold in Ireland, ever.

By the time RnaG started there would have been a tiny proportion of radio sets with VHF lacking above 104MHz never mind 100 to 104.

98FM complained that the majority of FM radios in the Dublin area could not tune up to 105.5MHz at the time

Any sets in Dublin Area at the time of start of 98FM that couldn't tune to 108 would have to have to been "grey" imports prior to 1966 for huge aerials picking up N.I. VHF. I simply can't believe any significant number of sets then couldn't do 105.5MHz.

1989 According to Wikipedia!

The station's first broadcast was in 1989, as a rock station called Classic Hits—98FM and quickly overtook rival Capital Radio 104.4 (now FM104), sometimes attributed to the Morning Crew show, originally presented by Pat Courtnay and Elaine Geraghty, and to its evening talk show presented by Fr. Michael Cleary. Changes led FM104 to overtake 98FM in the Joint National Listenership Research survey. This led to a crisis at 98FM, with the station changing aspects of its programme mix—firstly dropping Pat and Elaine for the "Dawn Patrol", a short-lived attempt to compete with The Strawberry Alarm Clock (the "Morning Crew" name was later revived, but with a new presenting team). The station name was changed (dropping "Classic Hits"), as was the slogan, and Chris Barry was recruited from FM104 (causing a legal wrangle). The station eventually settled down to competing with FM104, and the two stations continue to compete.

What ever reason they didn't want 105.5MHz, the stated one can't be true.