10th planet moves

nino1

anyone use any 10th planet stuff in competition?
I would say alot of their techniques seem to be just for sure but what are their most effective techniques?

da-bres

Id imagine if you put the time into training them they could be very successful. Especially because very few people play it here.

SBG Ireland

i strongly recommend that if you are not part of SBG you spend most of your time on those moves, particularly crackhead zombie parrot control.....and we'll see you in competition

Barry.Oglesby

I think I saw an Eddie Bravo interview where he essentially admitted that the reason for the early success he had with rubber guard was because he was catching people by surprise and that the moves were "tricks". I suppose you can say that about every technique but I can't think of one competitor in the ADCC this year who used rubber guard.

pablohoney87

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I think I saw an Eddie Bravo interview where he essentially admitted that the reason for the early success he had with rubber guard was because he was catching people by surprise and that the moves were "tricks". I suppose you can say that about every technique but I can't think of one competitor in the ADCC this year who used rubber guard.

Dean lister uses it quite a bit in mma but not grappling. Maybe it works well and against lower quality grapplers who'll stall on the ground?

Barry.Oglesby

Dean Lister could probably answer that.

darced

This post has been deleted.

crosdad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOTpBSrRhNs&feature=related


I've won 6 matches this year in ireland using this setup into a triangle. Not sure about all the half guard and twister stuff. i've never bought any books or dvd's and i kind of find mr bravo annoying. However, as someone looking at techniques objectivley, i think the rubber guard is great. Don't know about the wacky names or any of the other crazy stuff, but trapping the arm on the mat and hugging your leg to keep the overhook works, and is really effective. People say it doesnt work but i've won many matches using it so i think that proves it is effective. all the other stuff looks kinda ridiclous to me but i wouldnt know since i dont try them. Most people dont belive in rubber guard or use it which makes it even better cause it seems to me that nobody over here knows how to defend it. In saying that, if a guy knows how to keep posture and keeps his hand off the mat it's kind of useless. but most people don't know as they dont train with people who put them in the position.

Also, chris bowe uses it. this means it it has to work haha

Jason McCabe

I like some of his half guard stuff more than rubber guard

Marcus.phelan

crosdad wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOTpBSrRhNs&feature=related


I've won 6 matches this year in ireland using this setup into a triangle. Not sure about all the half guard and twister stuff. i've never bought any books or dvd's and i kind of find mr bravo annoying. However, as someone looking at techniques objectivley, i think the rubber guard is great. Don't know about the wacky names or any of the other crazy stuff, but trapping the arm on the mat and hugging your leg to keep the overhook works, and is really effective. People say it doesnt work but i've won many matches using it so i think that proves it is effective. all the other stuff looks kinda ridiclous to me but i wouldnt know since i dont try them. Most people dont belive in rubber guard or use it which makes it even better cause it seems to me that nobody over here knows how to defend it. In saying that, if a guy knows how to keep posture and keeps his hand off the mat it's kind of useless. but most people don't know as they dont train with people who put them in the position.

Also, chris bowe uses it. this means it it has to work haha

dont u train at sbg ireland? haha

Dermighty

Pretty sure Gorey uses it exclusively, when he's not hanging upside down in the bat cave waiting for phone calls from Chief O'Hara and Commissioner Gordon.

SBG Ireland

Marcus.phelan wrote: »

dont u train at sbg ireland? haha

yes, he's one of our top grapplers.

listen dont confuse adding some 'tricks' to a rock solid base, i even have a couple tricks but when i see someone working on their gogoplata when they dont know how to do a knee elbow escape then there might be a problem

Chris89

At the less experienced levels, I have seen people use the rubber guard to great effect. A good guard game is a very powerful tool when your opponent is not very good at passing. Ive seen a lot of guys stuck in 'rubber guard', surely one or two SBG guys have at some stage come up against a bendy legged foe?

EnjoyChoke

Eddie Bravo didn't invent the rubber guard, he gave it a fancy name and marketed it well. It's not a 10th planet move, it's a Jiu-Jitsu move.
Fair play to him though, I can't think of anyone who's built such a successful career out of winning a single grappling match.
I do think for the most part he's selling snake oil, so not really for me, gave up buying that along time ago.

crosdad

Marcus.phelan wrote: »

dont u train at sbg ireland? haha

Yes, and i agree with john's point. i think spending all your time trying to learn fancy ridiclous techniques rather than mastering a solid game first is a bad idea.

The rubber guard is effective imo, but to base a whole ''system'' on it and forget about everything wont get you far. X guard also works but ya don't see marcelo garcia opening up '' 11th planet'' and basing everything on that one technique. I think the rubber guard would be alot more popular if it wasnt accompanied by pot smoking, zombies, crackhead, **** the gi and all this other stuff. however that stuff aside, I think the rubber guard is an effective and tricky tool to have if you have the flexabilty.

Marcus.phelan

crosdad wrote: »

Yes, and i agree with john's point. i think spending all your time trying to learn fancy ridiclous techniques rather than mastering a solid game first is a bad idea.

The rubber guard is effective imo, but to base a whole ''system'' on it and forget about everything wont get you far. X guard also works but ya don't see marcelo garcia opening up '' 11th planet'' and basing everything on that one technique. I think the rubber guard would be alot more popular if it wasnt accompanied by pot smoking, zombies, crackhead, **** the gi and all this other stuff. however that stuff aside, I think the rubber guard is an effective and tricky tool to have if you have the flexabilty.

completely agree just couldnt resist the irony
p.s. whats wrong wit a bitta 'pot shmokin'

Gorman

the only people who can pull his stuff off are people that have been grappling for a long time. Bravo himself is a Machado BJJ BB and spent many years doing normal bjj before he came up with his "system"
I went to one of his seminars once and he is a great teacher.

EnjoyChoke

Gorman wrote: »

I went to one of his seminars once and he is a great teacher.

I found his primary concern was cramming more people on the mat to increase the payout. Man's got to eat I suppose.

p to the e

For those of you not in the cosmology know, Pluto was downgraded to a dwarf planet hence there's only 8 planets and the system should be called 9th planet JJ. NNNEEERRRRRRRDDDDDDDDD!!!!

Was at a comp once where an instructor (or mate) was shouting to the guy on the mat "Zombie, Zombie". Everyone was looking at him like he was a nutcase. I think he might have shouted "Hotdog" at one point.

DAGEROUSDAVE

The most useful techniques I've used from 10th planet are the half-guard 'lockdown' sweeps. They are almost 100% guaranteed to work if you are looking to sweep someone from bottom half-guard and the lockdown makes it very hard for someone to pass. Very effective.

I recommend getting hold of Eddie Bravo's Mastering The Rubber Guard Where he explains these techniques in great detail. Its definitely a real gem of an instructional series and I would put it up there with SBG's functional jkd series. You could make fun of it if you like OR you could look into it and take away something you could incorporate into your own game. Its up to you. I highly recommend it.


http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=24623

Chris89

The lockdown will of course work assuming your opponent does not know the very simple escape.

DAGEROUSDAVE

Chris89 wrote: »

The lockdown will of course work assuming your opponent does not know the very simple escape.

The escape is simple enough, but takes a while. You should have already swept them before they break the lockdown. If they break it, you just re-establish it and start again.

EDIT: Its especially hard to break once you've established double underhooks, which is the key to all the sweeps from the lockdown position.

EnjoyChoke

I'm assuming you're quite new to this whole thing Dave.
If a move was "almost 100% guaranteed" where would the motivation be to learn anything else?

Chris89

DAGEROUSDAVE wrote: »

The escape is simple enough, but takes a while. You should have already swept them before they break the lockdown. If they break it, you just re-establish it and start again.

EDIT: Its especially hard to break once you've established double underhooks, which is the key to all the sweeps from the lockdown position.

Next times someone has you in the lockdown try lifting your heel (of your trapped leg) to your arse. let me know if he has time to sweep you in the meantime.

Tim_Murphy

DAGEROUSDAVE wrote: »

I recommend getting hold of Eddie Bravo's Mastering The Rubber Guard Where he explains these techniques in great detail. Its definitely a real gem of an instructional series and I would put it up there with SBG's functional jkd series. You could make fun of it if you like OR you could look into it and take away something you could incorporate into your own game. Its up to you. I highly recommend it.

I picked up some stuff I still use a bit from the Eddie Bravo book, plenty of other stuff I don't. Not having a coach back when I started grappling I basically learned the fundamentals of BJJ from Matt Thornton's FJKD series 2 DVDs. You simply couldn't do that with any of Bravo's stuff. I don't think you can really compare the two really.

ryoishin

I remember listening to a podcast with Ryan Hall and he said his issues with rubber guard was that it kept you square to your opponent and he thought you should be making angles instead.

Has nt Bravo done a few seminars here, what did people think?

DAGEROUSDAVE

Chris89 wrote: »

Next times someone has you in the lockdown try lifting your heel (of your trapped leg) to your arse. let me know if he has time to sweep you in the meantime.

If you can lift the heel of your trapped foot to ur arse, you are not properly trapped in the lockdown. The trapped leg should be kept locked-down and as straight as it possibly can for it to work.

Chris89

DAGEROUSDAVE wrote: »

If you can lift the heel of your trapped foot to ur arse, you are not properly trapped in the lockdown. The trapped leg should be kept locked-down and as straight as it possibly can for it to work.

So you reckon if yo were given the time to set up your position perfectly, you could hold someone there indefinitely?? Man Ive got to dig out those rubber guard books, Ive been missing out.

DAGEROUSDAVE

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

I'm assuming you're quite new to this whole thing Dave.
If a move was "almost 100% guaranteed" where would the motivation be to learn anything else?

There aren't that many options from bottom half-guard, but from the ones available, lockdown sweeps have been the most successful that I have tried. I'm not completely new to this. I have been training on and off for the last 10 years and have competed in the national grappling tourney in dublin a few times, but I prefer to remain anonymous. Take from that what you will.

Niall0

DAGEROUSDAVE wrote: »

The most useful techniques I've used from 10th planet are the half-guard 'lockdown' sweeps. They are almost 100% guaranteed to work if you are looking to sweep someone from bottom half-guard and the lockdown makes it very hard for someone to pass. Very effective.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed to work.

DAGEROUSDAVE

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

I picked up some stuff I still use a bit from the Eddie Bravo book, plenty of other stuff I don't. Not having a coach back when I started grappling I basically learned the fundamentals of BJJ from Matt Thornton's FJKD series 2 DVDs. You simply couldn't do that with any of Bravo's stuff. I don't think you can really compare the two really.

Well Tim, you can and I have. They are both very different in terms of content but I got equally good instruction from both and still use many of the techniques from both in my game. Go watch the Eddie Bravo instructional and then come back and tell me if you got nothing from it.

DAGEROUSDAVE

Niall0 wrote: »

Nothing is 100% guaranteed to work.

I said almost, but I suppose it depends on who you're grappling with. I should've said 90% assuming your training partner hasn't already picked apart your game.

Chris89

DAGEROUSDAVE

Chris89 wrote: »

So you reckon if yo were given the time to set up your position perfectly, you could hold someone there indefinitely?? Man Ive got to dig out those rubber guard books, Ive been missing out.

No, depending on who your grappling with, your guard will be passed sooner or later, but preferably you should have swept them before they do. I know you were being sarcastic, but don't bother with the books, Eddie explains it much better in the instructional.

Edit: Yes I'm serious, and please don't post your little internet memes into the discussion. If you have a point to make, then make it. There are plenty of other low-brow forums to post your little cartoon pictures into.

Gorey_R

DAGEROUSDAVE wrote: »

There aren't that many options from bottom half-guard, but from the ones available, lockdown sweeps have been the most successful that I have tried. I'm not completely new to this. I have been training on and off for the last 10 years and have competed in the national grappling tourney in dublin a few times, but I prefer to remain anonymous. Take from that what you will.

Are you actually for real? I've been doing bjj just over a year and i think i could show you easily over 100 options from the half-guard. It's the vastest guard, in my opinion.

I think this guy is having a laugh!

dasmoose

Dave if you're gonna use the fact that you've 'competed in national grappling comps' and done well with 10th planet moves you should just come out and say who you are, if you can say "I'm X, here's me rubber guard armbarring someone" then fair enough!

Eddie Bravo once used a clip of me armbarring someone from rubber guard on the underground mma forum as proof that rubber guard is spreading round the world. So I am clearly five thousand times more qualified to talk about this than everyone else here

I don't really use it much any more. I do really like the 'sean williams guard' position (don't know if JK remembers but I think it was actually him who showed me that years back when I asked him about rubber guard) - as you only use it when you've already got the arm trapped. Braulio Estima uses this position all the time in nogi.

In 'mission control' I find anyone with good posture just tends to keep their arms in and you sit there staring at each other until you let go of the rubber guard or the other guy is able to posture up.

I do really like the half guard stuff but I don't use the lockdown at all. You'll notice as well that every sweep in eddie's book begins with 'release the lockdown...'

I think it has a very detrimental effect on newer grapplers as they tend to just hang on to the lockdown and rubberguard for dear life rather than opening up and developing their game.

Barry.Oglesby

They say you learn something new everyday, and today I learned that this forum is high brow.

r_obric

High brow?, is that a sweep from the milkshake guard?

paulmclaughlin

r_obric wrote: »

High brow?, is that a sweep from the milkshake guard?

Only if it brings all the boys to the guard.

pablohoney87

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

r_obric wrote: »

High brow?, is that a sweep from the milkshake guard?

Only if it brings all the boys to the guard.

The rule is attack the post not the poster. I wish i could stab this post i cringed so hard

dardis

arte suave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXnxHFwriyQ
Dean Lister showing how to break the lock down. Doesn't look very complicated to me.
Also in the infamous Eddie Bravo v Royler Gracie match Gracie passed Bravo's lockdown half guard 2 or 3 times early on in the fight. It's also worth noting that the triangle Bravo secured in the fight came from butterfly guard with an overhook on the arm. A technique that was shown to Eddie by JJ Machado.
If you're looking for half guard techniques I recommend Caio Terra' 111 half guard techniques dvd, Ryan Hall's Deep half dvd or Cyborg's tornado guard dvd. All these guys have actually used the techniques they teach at the highest levels in competition and not just on white and blue belts they train with in their gyms.

da-bres

arte suave wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXnxHFwriyQ
Dean Lister showing how to break the lock down. Doesn't look very complicated to me.
Also in the infamous Eddie Bravo v Royler Gracie match Gracie passed Bravo's lockdown half guard 2 or 3 times early on in the fight. It's also worth noting that the triangle Bravo secured in the fight came from butterfly guard with an overhook on the arm. A technique that was shown to Eddie by JJ Machado.
If you're looking for half guard techniques I recommend Caio Terra' 111 half guard techniques dvd, Ryan Hall's Deep half dvd or Cyborg's tornado guard dvd. All these guys have actually used the techniques they teach at the highest levels in competition and not just on white and blue belts they train with in their gyms.

Every DVD mentioned here will blow your mind!

Caio's in particular is pure gold

Niall0

I actually like alot of the 10th planet moves, i think alot of people dislike 10th planet because they dont like Eddie Bravo himself or the other people that use his system.
He developed the system for use in MMA, thats why alot of his stuff involves being so tight to the opponent, which doesnt allow them to posture up and throw punches.
As far as flexibiity goes you just need a good range of motion in your hips, and everyone who trains BJJ should be trying to develop this anyway.
There is also alot of stuff in there that has nothing to do with the rubber guard or the lockdown and would be of use to any good grappler.

Tim_Murphy

Niall0 wrote: »

He developed the system for use in MMA, thats why alot of his stuff involves being so tight to the opponent, which doesnt allow them to posture up and throw punches.

Strange then that you see so little of it in MMA...

Niall0

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

Strange then that you see so little of it in MMA...

Its a pretty specialised style, it will take a while before it becomes more common. You do see it all the time, even in the UFC. One of the better examples would be Vinny Magalhaes who also recently won the ADCC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkZ3_JR-o60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n36EZyjB3vg

Chris89

Of course you see sean bollinger using rubber guard, him being a black belt in the 10th planet system, I cant imagine he uses anything else.
And Vinny M is a Gracie Humaita Black Belt, he has a flexible guard and uses some of the rubber guard moves for sure...

So thats two guys, youre right, You see rubber guard in MMA all the time!

Niall0

Chris89 wrote: »

So thats two guys, youre right, You see rubber guard in MMA all the time!

:rolleyes: I was using two of the best guys as an example. What do you want me to do, list every single mma fighter who used the rubber guard?

Chris89

Niall0 wrote: »

:rolleyes: I was using two of the best guys as an example, what do you want me to do, list every single mma fighter who used the rubber guard.

Yes please.

Barry.Oglesby

Niall0 wrote: »

Its a pretty specialised style, it will take a while before it becomes more common.

It's been around the guts of a decade and saying it's specialised is like saying the triangle choke is a very specialised game.

dardis

Rubber guard will work in your gym and even some local competitions against white or blue belts as it did for me for a couple of years, but when I started competing against purples and above and they easily neutralized and exploited what was my strongest position I realized I had neglected my basics and depended on tricks because they gave subs. Now I am playing catch-up with solid basics and proper technique.