Explain me this lads...

ShadowHearth

As you know I Biult a new pc for myself just for gaming. Though I would like to share some numbers with you lads....

My new:

i5 2500k oced to 4.2ghz
8gb 1600 ram
Gtx 570

Heaven benchmark score: 850

My old dell xps 420

Q6600 stock
3gb ram DDR2
6870

Heave score: 850


Bouth benchmarks were done on same resolutions and same settings...

Or i5 2500k + gtx 570 really sucks or q6600 + 6870 is lethal combination...

Shy_Dave!

I dunno, but maybe...
Your old setup was being pushed 100% to get the score it did.
When using the same setting with your new setup your only using 50% of what it is capable of?
Perhaps using higher settings your new setup will push ahead? Just a guess.

dan_ep82

570 should be getting over 1000 coupled with the i5 2500k going by google.

I don't really use benchmarks,but does the HT effect it?

I'll check my own and see how it compares

ShadowHearth

Minimal fps on old setup was 9.8 frames new one has 20.

On the other side some places where new setup pushed only 48fps my old dell was at 60!!!

It's really weird.

I can't even overclock dam 570 as it gets unstable even from lightest overclocking. In some cases it perform worse over locked then stock...

dan_ep82

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Minimal fps on old setup was 9.8 frames new one has 20.

On the other side some places where new setup pushed only 48fps my old dell was at 60!!!

It's really weird.

I can't even overclock dam 570 as it gets unstable even from lightest overclocking. In some cases it perform worse over locked then stock...

Whats the exact model,reference or non-reference?

What settings are you benching at?

Heres mine,running the cards stock at the minute,i'll see what I can get later using trixx.
Edit:resize

ShadowHearth

right i did stock benchmark on my i5 and got this:

stock is with no AA?

i am wondering, is there even a point of AA when playing 1080p resolution? i did not sow much of visual differences, but performance increase dramaticly...




i will go do now same benchmark on my q6600

kfish2oo2

I'm not very fond of the Unigine benchmark. Sure it looks pretty, but I have some concerns regarding its optimization; namely when switching from scene to scene there's always a massive FPS hit regardless of system specs which I think is a programming issue and not a hardware issue.

dan_ep82

ShadowHearth wrote: »

right i did stock benchmark on my i5 and got this:

stock is with no AA?

i am wondering, is there even a point of AA when playing 1080p resolution? i did not sow much of visual differences, but performance increase dramaticly...

*snip*


i will go do now same benchmark on my q6600

Just realised you can't see my settings now,they're the same as yours but with x4AA

Newest drivers?

And your right,AA is a massive killer in games,better to use FXAA when you can. In BF3 I use full FXAA and x2 AA for example

ShadowHearth

q6600




so are nvidia overpriced piece of **** or ati 6870 is a really cracking card...

dan_ep82

It is a good card but not that good ha.
If your happy with how it performs in game thats all that matters. Just make sure you have the latest drivers.

ShadowHearth

dan_ep82 wrote: »

It is a good card but not that good ha.
If your happy with how it performs in game thats all that matters. Just make sure you have the latest drivers.

well it sort of ****.

i spent 1.2k eu on new pc, which is slightly faster then my old one...


anyway, its a wild guess. my gpu is installed in lower pcie slot as i could not fit in top one. would that make any difference? x8 and x16?

my mobo is z68A-g45 (B3)

if i am using second slot maybe it might be on x8 speed, not x16? or that does not matteR?

it says in my mobo book:

2pcie 2.0 x16 slot
PCI_E2 supports up to pciex16 speed ( when PCI_E5 is empty) or PCIe x8 speed ( when PCI_E% is installed)

i am not running sli, so does it still puts me on x8 speed? does it make huge difference?

dan_ep82

ShadowHearth wrote: »

well it sort of ****.

i spent 1.2k eu on new pc, which is slightly faster then my old one...


anyway, its a wild guess. my gpu is installed in lower pcie slot as i could not fit in top one. would that make any difference? x8 and x16?

my mobo is z68A-g45 (B3)

if i am using second slot maybe it might be on x8 speed, not x16? or that does not matteR?

it says in my mobo book:

2pcie 2.0 x16 slot
PCI_E2 supports up to pciex16 speed ( when PCI_E5 is empty) or PCIe x8 speed ( when PCI_E% is installed)

i am not running sli, so does it still puts me on x8 speed? does it make huge difference?

Ouch.

Going by what you posted they're should be a few numbers beside your PCI-E slots,look for the PCI_E5 then put it in the other as it can effect the speeds,usually not too notable though.
Did you check your GPU usuage when doing the benchmarks? maybe its not pushing 90%+ percent. Also try overclocking your CPU to 3.7 to 4.0GHz,the stock cooler should do,just watch the temps.

I'll admit i'm not one for nvidia/intel so maybe throw up a thread on overclock.net.It could be something to do with your platform.

ShadowHearth

Just changed few things inside my case. Got the gpu in to main slot. Let's see how it will do now...


I will newer ever buy msi mobo as it has sata connections going up, not in to the side. So it is I'm the way of that fat bastard called gtx 570....

I wonder what will happen if I drop my 6870 in to i5... Or i will sell that **** grx570 then buy 6870 and do Cs in i5 pc...

dan_ep82

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Just changed few things inside my case. Got the gpu in to main slot. Let's see how it will do now...


I will newer ever buy msi mobo as it has sata connections going up, not in to the side. So it is I'm the way of that fat bastard called gtx 570....

I wonder what will happen if I drop my 6870 in to i5... Or i will sell that **** grx570 then buy 6870 and do Cs in i5 pc...

Good stuff

Never had one,they that bad?always bought asus

crossfire 6870 is very good,better than a single 580.

The only problem you will encounter will be the drivers,micro stuttering as some have (i've never had problem) and some games not using CFX,but the good ones do

* also you will still only have 1gb of vram available while the 580 will have 1.5 and 3gb as per the 3gb and 1.5gb cards

ShadowHearth

Everyone always bitched about ati drivers, but my life with 6870 was flawless!


I did same benchmark and score went up to 1054 on standart. So it's a wee touch bigger.

I oced 570 a bit now to see if it will make it more stable on x16 slot ( if that was actuolly the issue... )

dan_ep82

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Everyone always bitched about ati drivers, but my life with 6870 was flawless!


I did same benchmark and score went up to 1054 on standart. So it's a wee touch bigger.

I oced 570 a bit now to see if it will make it more stable on x16 slot ( if that was actuolly the issue... )

Same as

Could be,it failing to OC could be the volts aswell,check what it can take then put it near max

ShadowHearth

Oced slightly. Did not crashed on heaven. 99% usage

Score: 1116.

Min fps 24.5
Max fps 107.1
Avg 44.3

dan_ep82

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Oced slightly. Did not crashed on heaven. 99% usage

Score: 1116.

Min fps 24.5
Max fps 107.1
Avg 44.3

That looks more like it,most benches iv'e seen for the 570 are about that:)

kfish2oo2

@ 1080p the performance difference between a GTX 560 and a HD 6870 are about 15% in favor of the nVidia card - not a huge difference by any means.

ShadowHearth

It's 570.

I oced it to from 742 to 800 core, then 1900 to 2000 memory clock. Stock 1013v and with AA x4 it crashed... Dunno why but if I put vote voltage I allways get worse scores...

Serephucus

dan_ep82, what are your specs? Can't see in the screenshot.

ShadowHearth

right, i found a thread of 570 OCers. the fellas with same system as i get same score on stock: 1050ish.


my system is allright, but gtx 570 is a overpriced piece of ****. for the price of 1xgtx570 you can get CS 6870 which will blow it out of the water.

even in real world 6870 is a better card for twice less the money.

i am not a fanboy as i had 8800GT and it was briliant card, but now nvidia can go and "F" itself in ZE ARSEN!...

kfish2oo2

ShadowHearth wrote: »

right, i found a thread of 570 OCers. the fellas with same system as i get same score on stock: 1050ish.


my system is allright, but gtx 570 is a overpriced piece of ****. for the price of 1xgtx570 you can get CS 6870 which will blow it out of the water.

even in real world 6870 is a better card for twice less the money.

i am not a fanboy as i had 8800GT and it was briliant card, but now nvidia can go and "F" itself in ZE ARSEN!...

The biggest chunk of the cost of 570's lies in the vapor chamber cooler. Lots of R&R went into making it affordable for mass production. I'd say the next generation of nVidia cards will see the cost of the vapor chamber go down a lot.

ShadowHearth

kfish2oo2 wrote: »

The biggest chunk of the cost of 570's lies in the vapor chamber cooler. Lots of R&R went into making it affordable for mass production. I'd say the next generation of nVidia cards will see the cost of the vapor chamber go down a lot.

well my tempretures are not going more then 51. in fact, i havent seen it go more then that, no matter what load, but is it worth 150eu extra for 6870?...


when 570 will drop in price i will do sli, but now i feel raped by Nvidia, i really dont get it how they do all those benchmarks...

Serephucus

Um... no? Definitely not.

ShadowHearth

Serephucus wrote: »

Um... no? Definitely not.

works both ways:

this actully makes gtx570 make look even more ****.

2x6870 = 1x570gtx = same price

2x6870 > 1x570GTX

2x580 = 2x6870 ( actuoally 2x580 wins by 0.5 FRAME! 2560x1600)

2x580 = 800eu
2x6870 = 350eu

( there were no 570 sli benchmark, so 570 will be even less! )

Serephucus

ShadowHearth wrote: »

works both ways:

this actully makes gtx570 make look even more ****.

2x6870 = 1x570gtx = same price

2x6870 > 1x570GTX

2x580 = 2x6870 ( actuoally 2x580 wins by 0.5 FRAME! 2560x1600)

2x580 = 800eu
2x6870 = 350eu

( there were no 570 sli benchmark, so 570 will be even less! )

Ok fine, but with CF anything, you loose your upgrade path. At least the with 570/580, you can buy another one second hand for a lot less later on. That's not factoring in CF scaling, microstter, driver problems, etc.

dan_ep82

Serephucus wrote: »

dan_ep82, what are your specs? Can't see in the screenshot.

Sorry,had to resize it for here.

Important bits
Win7 ultimate 64bit
4gb ram 1333mhz g.skill ripjaw
Phenom 1090T @3.7ghz
Two Sapphire 6870's in crossfire at stock clocks
7200rpm HDD(SSD in post)

dan_ep82

Serephucus wrote: »

Ok fine, but with CF anything, you loose your upgrade path. At least the with 570/580, you can buy another one second hand for a lot less later on. That's not factoring in CF scaling, microstter, driver problems, etc.

Bah,your upgrade path is only as big as your budget. Eventually even sli 580's wont cut it,and once again you loose your upgrade path. I agree 2 580's are much better,and if you can justify it go for it.
But in terms of price vs performance the 6870's win hands down.

ShadowHearth

Serephucus wrote: »

Ok fine, but with CF anything, you loose your upgrade path. At least the with 570/580, you can buy another one second hand for a lot less later on. That's not factoring in CF scaling, microstter, driver problems, etc.

fact is fact bud, Nvidia is overpriced bundle of metal. even on benchmarks SLI 570 is crap...

2x6870 would give me way more performance now, and by the time they would get old, i would just buy new gen card, which will be faster then 2x570.

i am a wee bit rattled atm so i might sound like an asshole. i needed to do more homework and see scaling of GPUs. I am the one to blame.

Ah well, its still a great system, but i could have done better on GPU side.

Serephucus

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Bah,your upgrade path is only as big as your budget. Eventually even sli 580's wont cut it,and once again you loose your upgrade path. I agree 2 580's are much better,and if you can justify it go for it.
But in terms of price vs performance the 6870's win hands down.

Right, well:

2 6870s (or a single 570) is €350.
Add a second 570 a year later, that's €200.

Upgrading from 6870 CF, means at least the same again, probably more, minus the cost of selling the 6870s, so about €400.

So, over, say, 2-3 years:

6870 CF + other card: €750
570 and SLI later: €550

Serephucus

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i am a wee bit rattled atm so i might sound like an asshole.

This.

Go play games, and forget about benchmarks for a while. I should point out that AMD card have always done better with synthetic scores than NVIDIA cards.

If you hate it that much, I'll take the 570 and buy you a 6870.

ShadowHearth

Serephucus wrote: »

This.

Go play games, and forget about benchmarks for a while. I should point out that AMD card have always done better with synthetic scores than NVIDIA cards.

If you hate it that much, I'll take the 570 and buy you a 6870.

buy me 2x6870 and then ill give you 570

Serephucus

You sir, can kindly go to hell.

dan_ep82

Serephucus wrote: »

Right, well:

2 6870s (or a single 570) is €350.
Add a second 570 a year later, that's €200.

Upgrading from 6870 CF, means at least the same again, probably more, minus the cost of selling the 6870s, so about €400.

So, over, say, 2-3 years:

6870 CF + other card: €750
570 and SLI later: €550

Bad maths,he has a 6870 already

So
1 extra 6870 is 160-170 new enabling CFX and FPS of 580
1 extra 570 @350 new enabling sli and fps of ... not sure,close to sli 580

In two years he could sell the 6870's probably for 150 and the 570's for 220.

By then the 7XXX series will be cheap and he could get a single 7970 for a little more on top of the re-sale of the 570's or 6870's and have the performance of a 590.

Either in 2-3 years he will more than likely get a top range card again the sale of the old cards will of course knock some off the price but more than likely wont be such a big factor,when you buy new you budget for it at the time.

If I had to give advice concerning future proofing I'd say hold onto the 570,wait until the 7 series are released and then get a single 7970 for (rumoured) under 400euro and have 590 performance,then CFX when the prices drop a bit.

*Im rubbish at maths by the way

Serephucus

Point(s) taken. I was more doing it as a general thing to point out when to be thinking about multi-GPU setups, taking his cards as an example.

Tea_Bag

tbf, those benchmarks are fairly inaccurate.

what you're looking for in a game is the highest possible minimum FPS. big dips make unpleasant gaming.

without looking at the benchmark results, i can garuntee that the i5+570 will forever outpace the older q6600+6870 by probably close to 20fps at high resolutions. thats a huge difference.

totally agree with you on the Nvidia pricing though. i love my GTX 460. its a beast of an overclocker. but i couldnt justify their price/performance when getting my new build. i had a toss up between a GTX 580, but i got a great deal on 2x HD6950CF (€204 each -now €232!) whereas the cheapest 580 was €410!!! the benchmarks say it all.

my experiences of crossfire are mixed though. only game i had a problem with is F1 2011 not working properly. but the drivers are fairly kak. my CCC is now refusing to open so i cant change any settings, and the only solution online is to reinstall W7. **** sake.

my next upgrade will be Maxwell i reckon. SLI unless the 700 series is going to be an uber beast.

dan_ep82

Serephucus wrote: »

Point(s) taken. I was more doing it as a general thing to point out when to be thinking about multi-GPU setups, taking his cards as an example.

Ah i know where your coming from

nesf

For reference, 2 x 6970s and an i5 all at stock only gets mid 1200s at 2560 x 1440 with x4 AA. Min fps 10, max 109, average 46. A single 6970 only averages around 20fps.

Benchmarks are only mildly useful mind. In-game performance is all that really matters.

Edit:

Performance at a more reasonable resolution for reference:

Again x4AA.

FPS:
82.6
Scores:
2082
Min FPS:
11.7
Max FPS:
181.7

As you can see, complete overkill for this test. Pointlessly high max, similar low and an average fps a good bit higher than is necessary. With watercooling and some good overclocks on the GPUs you could get much better numbers here.