Is ECDL worth doing?

Pistachio

Hi all, I'm trying to get back to work after a few years break at home with kids. I'm looking for a secretarial/admin job, I know I can do pretty much whatever will be required in any office but having picked up these skills through previous jobs I don't have any certificates. Is it worth paying for an ECDL course (it looks pretty basic) or should I do something more advanced? Would an ECDL get my CV looked at or is there anything else that will get me considered for a job?

I'm not registered unemployed so won't get on any FAS courses so I need to get the best value for my money.

KateMiddleton

It's quite expensive for what it is better to get something more advanced. You can buy books or possibly borrow them from the library and then just do that exam it'd be better than paying for the course I reckon

Mrs OBumble

You should register with FAS anyway, you may be eligibile just by virtue of re-entering the workforce after taking a break due to childcare.

Objectively: not, it's not worth it.

But in the eyes of some employers, it can be a way to distinguish between a pile of CVs who could ALL do the job. So it can sometimes help.

Pistachio

Kate, that's a good idea, I'll look into just doing the exams and check out more advanced courses. Any recommendations about where to do the courses?

Mary, I'm registered with Fas, I'm not eligible for anything, wasn't offered any help with CV or anything like that, the woman I met just told me those type of jobs don't last long and that Fas isn't a job agency.

maglite

I'd say if you can pick one up, or even ECDL advanced it might be worth it. There are some "misguided" HR people who put it on a pedestal, had a friend with a CompSci degree turned down for a job before because he did't have ECDL.

seanybiker

Starting advanced ecdl tomorrow myself. Had a quick look over it and it seems fairly easy.

Mrs OBumble

Pistachio wrote: »

Mary, I'm registered with Fas, I'm not eligible for anything, wasn't offered any help with CV or anything like that, the woman I met just told me those type of jobs don't last long and that Fas isn't a job agency.

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Of course they're a job agency - just not a temping agency!!!!!

Go back, hopefully talk to a different staff member, ask what it will take to get you eligible. And stress that you're looking for permanent work, not temping.

I don't know if temping is possible for you (childcare can be hard to organise) - but if it does, you can registrer with some temping agencies too? This works best if you can find a friend who knows someone who works there. That'd be a way to get some recent work expereince, and they may not be as fussed about quals.

Pistachio

Thanks all for suggestions. Seany, let me know how the course goes for you if you don't mind.

I know Mary, she was very clear about not being a job agency unless a company came to them trying to fill specific, highly skilled positions, in other words not someone like me!! I told her that I'm looking for work and explained much as I've done here but no help was offered. Anyway, wasn't Fas supposed to be renamed/changed to Solas?? Whatever happened to that idea? I'm going to look into temping as well, hadn't even thought of that.

KateMiddleton

Pistachio wrote: »

Kate, that's a good idea, I'll look into just doing the exams and check out more advanced courses. Any recommendations about where to do the courses?

.

It depends on where you are based maybe try your local VEC? They'd be cheap enough. I'd say get a book on ECDL from the library and mess around with your computer and you could just do the exam or try to do the next course which is microsoft office specialist. It's not that hard for word or powerpoint.

allibastor

Pistachio wrote: »

Kate, that's a good idea, I'll look into just doing the exams and check out more advanced courses. Any recommendations about where to do the courses?

Mary, I'm registered with Fas, I'm not eligible for anything, wasn't offered any help with CV or anything like that, the woman I met just told me those type of jobs don't last long and that Fas isn't a job agency.

Hahahah thats typical ireland, yeah FAS is where all the high skilled people go. you should complain that lady and hopefully have her useless self removed from providing bad advice to people like yourself who are genuinely trying to make a better life for themselves. good for you by the way.

As said above try and AECDL, its more advanced, or maybe a secretarial course in one of the further education colleges. also even though you are not eligeble for the dole, register yourself as being un-employed and then with FAS. you may not get any money but once your on the system they have to help somewhat.

Mr. Loverman

Personally I think "ECDL" means "I don't know much about computers". This is probably unfair but it is how I feel.

I think signing up for a more "serious" night course or distance learning course would look better on your CV.

the_syco

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Personally I think "ECDL" means "I don't know much about computers". This is probably unfair but it is how I feel.

I'd agree. OP: rent a book from the library about the ECDL. If you think it's too easy, it's wasting your time. According to this, FAS does receptionist courses, so doing one of them would probably be a better use of your time.

Mrs OBumble

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Personally I think "ECDL" means "I don't know much about computers". This is probably unfair but it is how I feel.

I think signing up for a more "serious" night course or distance learning course would look better on your CV.

I think you're right.

However I also think that many employer / HR types don't know this.

tHE vAGGABOND

In a past life we hired a couple of people who were leaving the building trade who had zero IT skills, but who had a set of other skills we really needed.

Now we fully knew and accepted their lack of IT skills.

But as time went on, we would have LOVED if they had done ECDL as it would have made them productive far far sooner - and if we were to do that again, or if I did that again in current job I would insist on it [or a demonstration of their computer skills]

vikingdub

The ECDL is a complete waste of time and I do not know any HR/hiring managers who regard it with anything but contempt. I advise people not to put it on a cv, if you are a competent user of a computer say so, describe your level of competence with the commonly used applications for example Word, Excel, Access, etc., basic, intermediate, advanced, expert. Be truthful, you could be given a test.

Register with FAS/Solas or whatever they call themselves these days, but do not expect to receive anything remotely resembling service or support. The staff are unqualified and incompetent and spent years coasting along sending people to ECDL and Safe Pass courses run by "training providers" well connected with FAS.

Do your homework, decide what courses you want to do and which will enhance your employability, then go to FAS tell them you want the specific course, if they and their cronies do not provide it, tell them you want them to fund it for you. They will initally tell you that this is not possible, ask to see a more senior person, keep at it, they can pay but will only do so when put under pressure.

By the way people who have been out of the workforce and those who were self-employed are eligible for FAS courses, many have been told otherwise (more of the incompetence) but this is incorrect. Tell the person who said you were ineligible that you want to speak to a more senior person, keep going until you get the correct answer. Believe it or not, I got that advise from some quite senior in FAS, it would be funny if it was not frightening.

vikingdub

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

In a past life we hired a couple of people who were leaving the building trade who had zero IT skills, but who had a set of other skills we really needed.

Now we fully knew and accepted their lack of IT skills.

But as time went on, we would have LOVED if they had done ECDL as it would have made them productive far far sooner - and if we were to do that again, or if I did that again in current job I would insist on it [or a demonstration of their computer skills]

Good for you as an employer to give people a chance to learn new skills.

With regard to the ECDL, in my experience it is not worth the paper it written on, remember that many of these ECDL certificates were handed out by so-called "training providers", who were subseqently found to have failed to train course participants but had handed out the certs anyway. A complete betrayal of those participants who genuinely thought that they had attained new skills.

The best way to establish the level of IT competence of a candidate is to test him/her in the application that will be needed to do the job.

Thoie

Stupid bloody fecking Fás. Pistachio, as you're already registered with Fás you are eligible to sign up for their free online courses, which you can do from home (or the local library), more or less at your leisure (there is a time limit, but it's very generous).

Here are the "Office application courses"
http://www.ecollege.ie/site/pages/categories/CatOfficeApplications.html

You may have to pay to take an accredited exam, depending on the course.

If, after completing the courses, you're happy that you can meet all the aims, then put something like "experienced user of MS Office suite" on your CV - I wouldn't necessarily put down ECDL, even if you do the exam.

Be honest with yourself as you're training, and test yourself as you go along. Don't assume that just because you've completed a unit that you're an expert - try doing a task a few days later to make sure it's sunk in

mathepac

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

...

Now we fully knew and accepted their lack of IT skills.

But as time went on, we would have LOVED if they had done ECDL ...

Sorry but as others gave pointed out this is the kind of confusion that drives me nuts. ECDL has nothing got to do with IT skills in the same way that having the other kind of driving licence doesn't qualify the holder to work as a technician on a modern expensive car.

gman2k

I have heard from friends in the IT industry who would have been involved in HR at different times that if a CV came in with ECDL listed as a skillset the CV was immediately binned.

CricketDude

gman2k wrote: »

I have heard from friends in the IT industry who would have been involved in HR at different times that if a CV came in with ECDL listed as a skillset the CV was immediately binned.

Thats what we do.
If someone is dumb enough to think that having ECDL on their CVs is going to make us hire them - bin. ECDL means - i dont have the first clue so im going to do this stupid course and pretend i do.

Mrs OBumble

Folks, this depends on the industry. The OP wants to get into secretarial / admin work and in this area many employers do rate ECDL, and "IT skills" does mean Word, Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint - ie just the sort of stuff that ECDL covers. And ECDL is a lot less subjective than your own assessment of whether you're intermediate or advanced - generally the more you know, the more you realise you don't know.

Agree that I wouldn't list it if I was applying for an IT job (and I don't have it anyway ), but it is relevant for some places.

Mr. Loverman

JustMary wrote: »

Agree that I wouldn't list it if I was applying for an IT job (and I don't have it anyway )

Haha this reminded me of an interview (QA or development, I don't remember) I went for a good few years back. I did computer science in college and would have had a couple of years QA/development work experience at that stage.

HR Person: You don't know how to use Microsoft Windows?
Me: Oh, I do, I just didn't list Windows as a skill on my CV as it kind of goes without saying...
HR Person: Surely you would list it if you knew how to use it?
Me: Eh...
HR Person: (confused look, probably thinks I need to do an ECDL course).

...

eimear10

Where can I do the ECDL ? DOn't you need to be unemployed to do it with VEC? i work full time but want to do the ecdl at night? anyone know is there anything around the Dun Laoghaire area? DOnt mind paying for it .. Thanks for your help

prettygurrly

I dunno, i think you're all being a little harsh on ECDL. My mum did the FAS one 5 years ago and it was brilliant for her. She was way more proficient in windows than before she went in and she had already been running her own office and knew how to type so she wasn't IT illiterate when she went in. Not everyone in the class passed either. She did exceptionally well in it and I was damn proud of her. I wouldn't put the fact I did an ECDL on my CV now as I did it 12 years ago, I've done more in windows since with my studies. However, if my mum was applying for a secretarial/admin job which lets face it is what she is experienced in then definitely I'd tell her to put it down.

wrt OP, it sounds like you would be able for an advanced course, like other posters said, maybe you should look into that. I would expect that there are online courses available which will be much cheaper than the offline ones. Much like TEFL courses.

vikingdub

JustMary wrote: »

Folks, this depends on the industry. The OP wants to get into secretarial / admin work and in this area many employers do rate ECDL, and "IT skills" does mean Word, Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint - ie just the sort of stuff that ECDL covers. And ECDL is a lot less subjective than your own assessment of whether you're intermediate or advanced - generally the more you know, the more you realise you don't know.

Agree that I wouldn't list it if I was applying for an IT job (and I don't have it anyway ), but it is relevant for some places.

The ECDL is absolutely worthless, employers hold it in utter contempt and a candidate without any workplace experience in Word, Excel, etc will not be considered based on the ECDL. In fact in this market a person without workplace experience has little chance of being hired.

Recruitment agencies test candidates in Word, Excel, etc., a test report from an agency is a far more credible assessment of the person's skills than an ECDL.

prettygurrly

vikingdub wrote: »

Recruitment agencies test candidates in Word, Excel, etc., a test report from an agency is a far more credible assessment of the person's skills than an ECDL.

Never had a recruitment agency test my IT skills when looking for a job...and I was looking. I also interviewed for a job as a recruitment consultant and no testing of IT skills was ever mentioned. Maybe some do but I haven't come across it. Still think you're being harsh on ECDL in the context of the OPs chosen job.

I've one more question, how do you expect someone to pass a test by a recruitment agency? Surely doing the ECDL will lead you to be able to pass those sort of tests? It is still the basics of IT even if you dont rate it.

vikingdub

prettygurrly wrote: »

Never had a recruitment agency test my IT skills when looking for a job...and I was looking. I also interviewed for a job as a recruitment consultant and no testing of IT skills was ever mentioned. Maybe some do but I haven't come across it. Still think you're being harsh on ECDL in the context of the OPs chosen job.

I've one more question, how do you expect someone to pass a test by a recruitment agency? Surely doing the ECDL will lead you to be able to pass those sort of tests? It is still the basics of IT even if you dont rate it.

I was referring specifically to the Word, Excel, etc testing. I would imagine an IT recruitment consultant and/or the client company would conduct a technical interview to establish a candidate's IT skills.

I tested numerous people who had ECDL certificates - those who had nothing other than the ECDL could not match the skill level indicated on the certificate. The ECDL is worthless and in no way provides any plausible indication of the skills of the holder.

Mr. Loverman

prettygurrly wrote: »

My mum did the FAS one 5 years ago and it was brilliant for her...

I am happy for your mum and I'm glad it helped her, but as per your example, ECDL is sort of "for mums" which I think is why it has a bad reputation.

annascott

I agree with most of the other posters on here - ECDL is ok as a starting point as an introduction to microsoft office but it does not impress. I used to teach it. When we did the training on marking the papers, we were told that "if someone has the gist of it, mark them up.." I know of dozens of people who have passed this exam but are not competent in office applications. It is very difficult to fail.

ECDL will not help you to get a job with a Company. However, some smaller offices/home businesses run by people who are not computer savvy themselves and need someone to do 'a bit of office work..' may be impressed by it.

paddydoherty

If you do an ECDL course what other courses should you do after it to increase your chance of getting hired?

tempura

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Haha this reminded me of an interview (QA or development, I don't remember) I went for a good few years back. I did computer science in college and would have had a couple of years QA/development work experience at that stage.

HR Person: You don't know how to use Microsoft Windows?
Me: Oh, I do, I just didn't list Windows as a skill on my CV as it kind of goes without saying...
HR Person: Surely you would list it if you knew how to use it?
Me: Eh...
HR Person: (confused look, probably thinks I need to do an ECDL course).

...

Wow, did you seriously say this in an Interview, sorry, but it comes across as completely cocky.

That type of Overconfidence can damage an employers opinion of you.


Did you expect the HR person to just know how talented you were ? , you were simply asked if you knew how to use an application !

Your right, you don't need the ECDL course, you should perhaps try a people skills course instead.

uck51js9zml2yt

i did the ecdl as an extra so i could learn access and get more proficient with the rest.
it was done in fas finglas and the exam was computerised. if you passed you passed. if you failed, you sat it again.there was no human interaction

mathepac

maglite wrote: »

I'd say if you can pick one up, or even ECDL advanced it might be worth it. There are some "misguided" HR people who put it on a pedestal, had a friend with a CompSci degree turned down for a job before because he did't have ECDL.

I agree 100%. The ability to turn a computer on, open Word, type a letter save and print it is regarded as an IT qualification by some HRs, which gives an insight to their value to that business.

CuriousG

I done this when I was young, about 10. Hasn't ever really benefited me in any way.

Mrs OBumble

tempura wrote: »

you were simply asked if you knew how to use an application !

Your right, you don't need the ECDL course, you should perhaps try a people skills course instead.

Tempura, I actually though about giving you a yellow-card for being uncivil in this post.

But I realised that if you don't know that Windows is an OS rather than an application, then you probably don't realise what a sort of implicit skills anyone interviewing for a software QA or development job should expect. So I decided that the warning would be unfair.

But in general, please don't be rude to other posters in this forum.


EDIT: If you want to discuss this further, please do it by PM. Or if you want another moderator to look at it, use the Report Post button. Do NOT argue on thread.

/moderation

starlit

It's worth doing as a very basic level of computing I suppose. Its handy to have if you ever work in an office. Though I think if you serious about it and pick things up quickly either a part-timer/night course or online course might be worth considering even if with FAS? I think it something you can learn yourself if you pick things up quickly but if not and a total beginner best to be in a classroom situation or one to one tuition. Do the exams then after the course.

Denerick

For anyone under 35 the ECDL is pointless. If you don't know how to use the basics of a computer at this stage then there is probably something wrong with you (I know that sounds harsh, but thats the way employers will look at it)

For anyone over 35 and who hasn't got an awful lot of experience it may be useful if they're going to work in a local little office somewhere doing data entry or something along those lines.

I remember we had to do it in transition year way back (2004ish). I failed like three modules because we were busy playing online games with each other during the class - and the tests! It was a complete joke. The teacher tried to stress its importance but I knew for a fact it was a complete and utter waste of time for someone my age.

Hawk Wing 2

would the exams be like the online gmetrix testing for excel ?

StillWaters

No, its not worth doing. It is for transition year students and pensioners. Far better to get a couple of FETAC level 6 IT modules, or MOS, they are more highly regarded., and rightly so.

christmas2012

I agree its a ten year old course,as far as im concerned its out of date,far better doing one of those payroll or sage /mos or another it fetac level 6 module..

Anything that is fetac 5 or 6 is worth having..