The New Deal Bus Fare Regime

AlekSmart

So here we go with the Irish Solution to our problems..

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news.html

The NTA's approved "Alterations" to Dublin Bus's Cash Fare Structure from Jan 2012.

Average Cash Fare increase of 15%


Schoolchild .75c
Child 0-7 Stages .90c
Child 8> Stages €1.15

Adult 1-3 Stages €1.40
Adult 4-7 Stages €1.90
Adult 7-13 Stages €2.15
Adult 13> Stages €2.65

HOWEVER !!!!! :eek:

Average Leap Fare Increase 5%

Average Leap Discount 9%

LEAP FARES -

Schoolchild .70c
Child 0-7 Stages .85c
Child 8 > Stages .€1.05

Adult 1-3 Stages €1.25
Adult 4-7 Stages €1.70
Adult 8-13 Stages €1.95
Adult 13> Stages €2.40

So at last,an incentive (or penalty) for rooting and scratching for coins...Oh Joy !!!

Now lets get this thing off the ground and market it to death...just a pity we couldn't have managed to define "Discount" as other cultures do...ah well..must'nt grumble ?

bk

FFS, good that there is a discount for LEAP, but why in gods name couldn't they have switched to a flat fare.

They are giving a discount for leap, but it isn't actually going to do anything to reduce dwell times :mad:

mikemac1

Adult 8-13 Stages €1.95

Round it to an easy two euro FFS

Years ago the Labour Party were talking about flat fares, must have forgotten all about it....
Cash fares to be increased but it was nice round numbers, whatever happened?

Messing with five cent increments doesn't help those of us who share stops with people with bottomless handbags and who wait until the bus arrives to look for their fare money :rolleyes:

The extra discount on pre-paid are to be welcomed, dwell times at some stops due to cash fares are just ridiculous

SandyfordGuy

I'd have gone with something like this

CASH

Schoolchild .70c
Child 0-7 Stages .90c
Child 8> Stages €1.10

Adult 1-3 Stages €1.50
Adult 4-7 Stages €2.00
Adult 7-13 Stages €2.30
Adult 13> Stages €2.70

LEAP FARES -

Schoolchild .60c
Child 0-7 Stages .80c
Child 8 > Stages .€1.00

Adult 1-3 Stages €1.30
Adult 4-7 Stages €1.70
Adult 8-13 Stages €1.90
Adult 13> Stages €2.40

Nice round numbers, but then again we have to do anything to use non round numbers with 5's on the end, and to try and just push everything up. The above have modest increases for cash fares and small decreases to leap fares and nicer, rounder numbers.

AlekSmart

Some VERY interesting insight into the NTA's thinking on Smart Card discounting here....

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/RPA-Luas-fares-approval-Dec-2011.pdf

Whilst it is specific to Luas,it appears to suggest that Smart Carding on Luas has turned out to be a tad TOO successful,so in true Irish Administrative style,they move swiftly to reduce it's attractiveness......interesting also in that the NTA desire to harmonize the Card discount to the Dublin Bus level of c.9%.

BTW...does anybody else feel that the entire Luas Fare Structure is massively over complex (and EXPENSIVE :eek:) given the relatively small system coverage ?

robd

I'd have gone with something like this

CASH
Child €1.00
Adult €2.00

LEAP FARES -
Child €0.90
Adult €1.80

Nice round numbers plus discount for LEAP card.

Next year I'd approve (to deliberately penalize Cash)

CASH
Child €2.00
Adult €3.00

LEAP FARES -
Child €1.00
Adult €2.00

robd

AlekSmart wrote: »

BTW...does anybody else feel that the entire Luas Fare Structure is massively over complex (and EXPENSIVE :eek:) given the relatively small system coverage ?

In my experience these kind of Modern Light Rail Systems (as a pose to smaller tram systems in place for years) tend to be dear. High construction costs and they're generally tendered out to be operated privately at no service cost to government so they need to wipe their ass essentially.

SandyfordGuy

robd wrote: »

I'd have gone with something like this

CASH
Child €1.00
Adult €2.00

LEAP FARES -
Child €0.90
Adult €1.80

Nice round numbers plus discount for LEAP card.

Next year I'd approve (to deliberately penalize Cash)

CASH
Child €2.00
Adult €3.00

LEAP FARES -
Child €1.00
Adult €2.00

If we were going Flat Fare I'd do this firstly to encourage take up in the first six months

Until June 2012
Leap Child: 0.80
Leap Adult: 1.80
Cash Adult: 2.00
Cash child: 1.00

After June 2012 I'd penalize cash very heavily but also increase LEAP, i'd just have it much cheaper the first six months to encourage takeup

Leap Child: 1.00
Leap Adult: 2.00
Cash Child: 1.50
Cash Adult: 2.50

AlekSmart

This is true Sandyford Guy,but as I've posted elsewhere the NTA appear to have a very specific notion about discounting as a means of popularizing Pre-Paid Card usage...

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/RPA-Luas-fares-approval-Dec-2011.pdf

Essentially the NTA believe that discounting appears to be evil and should be discontinued just as soon as you have enough suckers..oops sorry,customers signed up for it.

Nobody yet seems to be looking at the Social Benefits accruing from maintaining an affordable,accessible and widespread Public Transport system during a developing recessioin where hugely increased Private Transport costs have yet to bite ?

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

FFS, good that there is a discount for LEAP, but why in gods name couldn't they have switched to a flat fare.

They are giving a discount for leap, but it isn't actually going to do anything to reduce dwell times :mad:

Very simply, while desireable - it would either be too expensive for the low fare users or would mean too great a drop in fare box revenue needed to provide the service.

And before you suggest that there could be a huge increase in ridership - in the current climate and falling subventions I don't think the operators/NTA could take that risk.

Added to that with the recent changes in the DB network, buses are now operating with less free seats so there isn't the capacity to take on a huge increase in ridership.

mydiscworld

bk wrote: »

FFS, good that there is a discount for LEAP, but why in gods name couldn't they have switched to a flat fare.

They are giving a discount for leap, but it isn't actually going to do anything to reduce dwell times :mad:

You are f**king kidding me.

No flat fare means more and more people will get a Leap card for the cheaper fare, when it is launched next week.

They will then all stand by the door, holding up the queue for both cash fares and current smartcard fares, while waiting for driver to put charge on the card.

Once the Leap card becomes more popular on DB dwell times will be crazy.

AlekSmart

mydiscworld wrote: »

You are f**king kidding me.

No flat fare means more and more people will get a Leap card for the cheaper fare, when it is launched next week.

They will then all stand by the door, holding up the queue for both cash fares and current smartcard fares, while waiting for driver to put charge on the card.

Once the Leap card becomes more popular on DB dwell times will be crazy.

Hmmmmmm.......sez the suave,expensively besuited Consultant........." That's unfortunate....it was'nt actually aprt of our brief though,was it...?" Now that'll be 25,000 Guineas please

LXFlyer

mydiscworld wrote: »

bk wrote: »

FFS, good that there is a discount for LEAP, but why in gods name couldn't they have switched to a flat fare.

They are giving a discount for leap, but it isn't actually going to do anything to reduce dwell times :mad:

You are f**king kidding me.

No flat fare means more and more people will get a Leap card for the cheaper fare, when it is launched next week.

They will then all stand by the door, holding up the queue for both cash fares and current smartcard fares, while waiting for driver to put charge on the card.

Once the Leap card becomes more popular on DB dwell times will be crazy.

I don't see dwell times being any longer. People with period passes will still use the validator on the right together with the higher LEAP fare (previously issued by the driver) - it is only cash users or people using lower LEAP fares that will use the drivers machine and they would have been doing so in the first place.

SandyfordGuy

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't see dwell times being any longer. People with period passes will still use the validator on the right together with the higher LEAP fare (previously issued by the driver) - it is only cash users or people using lower LEAP fares that will use the drivers machine and they would have been doing so in the first place.

You don't see Dwell times any longer? Have you seen the LEAP card being used or used one yourself? Because from seeing it in action myself the vast majority of people in the city don't pay the 2.30 fare, they pay something less, and so far it's not made any reduction in dwell time, and the badly trained drivers in most cases have no idea what to do, so unless that is improved soon it will be a nightmare, every time I see someone use a leap card for 3 out of the 4 fare types DB offer (which is not higher fares, it's every fare but the highest, but spin all you like), it takes much longer for a driver to issue a fare than it does for the same in cash.

robd

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

You don't see Dwell times any longer? Have you seen the LEAP card being used or used one yourself? Because from seeing it in action myself the vast majority of people in the city don't pay the 2.30 fare, they pay something less, and so far it's not made any reduction in dwell time, and the badly trained drivers in most cases have no idea what to do, so unless that is improved soon it will be a nightmare, every time I see someone use a leap card for 3 out of the 4 fare types DB offer (which is not higher fares, it's every fare but the highest, but spin all you like), it takes much longer for a driver to issue a fare than it does for the same in cash.

100% true unfortunately.

LEAP card is considerably slower than dropping cash in box.

Only think it fixes is the random idiot who gets on the bus, asks what the fare is to blah the proceeds to route for cash. Do you take notes. No. Oh. Routes for coins. Eventually gets some amount in, frustrates the hell out of the driver and everyone queuing behind, and driver just issues ticket and moves him/her on. Oh wait, they'll still do that cause they don't get technology so will continue to use cash.

So slower for the standard scenario.

LXFlyer

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't see dwell times being any longer. People with period passes will still use the validator on the right together with the higher LEAP fare (previously issued by the driver) - it is only cash users or people using lower LEAP fares that will use the drivers machine and they would have been doing so in the first place.

You don't see Dwell times any longer? Have you seen the LEAP card being used or used one yourself? Because from seeing it in action myself the vast majority of people in the city don't pay the 2.30 fare, they pay something less, and so far it's not made any reduction in dwell time, and the badly trained drivers in most cases have no idea what to do, so unless that is improved soon it will be a nightmare, every time I see someone use a leap card for 3 out of the 4 fare types DB offer (which is not higher fares, it's every fare but the highest, but spin all you like), it takes much longer for a driver to issue a fare than it does for the same in cash.

Initially it will maybe take a bit longer but I can't see that lasting once more and more people are using the card - drivers and passengers will become familiar with it pretty quickly.

I would personally far prefer a two fare structure - one within the city area and one for longer routes - but presumably due to the current funding situation that was discounted.

And I am not trying to spin anything - I have no vested interest whatsoever other than being a customer myself.

bk

Have to agree with SandyfordGuy, my experience of Leap over the last two weeks is that it takes longer then paying by cash.

mydiscworld

"The Authority believes that providing a discount for Leap customers using their Travel Credit will incentivise the switch to the new Leap card. This will yield benefits for all customers through faster boarding times and the consequential efficiency improvements for the bus operator. "

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/Cie-operators-fares-increases-Dec-2011.pdf

Their logic is so flawed.

Only those using the full Leap fare, can simply tag on and will not have to interact with the driver.

So, once interacting to get one of the lower fares, which most people require, you are now holding up a cash fare person (as driver can only serve one at a time).

Also, you interact by placing Leap Card at the tag on machine, and then request the fare you need. This means you are now also holding up the current smartcard users.

Takes driver longer to do up your Leap fare than cash fares 100% of the time. I've witnessed it.

Sure, drivers and customers will get better at the transaction but it's still gonna be slower than cash.

A flat Leap fare, only requiring you to tag on & therefore, with no driver interaction, is the obvious and only solution.

But, it being Ireland, they won't bring this in until we have at least a year (2012) of chaos!

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Initially it will maybe take a bit longer but I can't see that lasting once more and more people are using the card - drivers and passengers will become familiar with it pretty quickly.

I would personally far prefer a two fare structure - one within the city area and one for longer routes - but presumably due to the current funding situation that was discounted.

And I am not trying to spin anything - I have no vested interest whatsoever other than being a customer myself.

Agree 100% here lxflyer.

However,to my way of thinking,this funding/revenue allocation and support structure needed to be firmly nailed down well in advance of Leap leaping into live mode.

What we currently have is a decidely shaky system which is attempting to affix all manner of patches to a very disparate collection of Fare Systems indeed.

I cannot fathom,given the long running and hugely expensive nature of the ITS programme,what all the funding was spent upon if,at this 11th hour we are still faffing about with dysfunctional Fare Stage,Zonal and Regional systems and hoping that we can cobble together an acceptable compromise.

12 years and €48 Million really should have bought us a little more functionality and INTEGRATION from Day 1.

robd

lxflyer wrote: »

Initially it will maybe take a bit longer but I can't see that lasting once more and more people are using the card - drivers and passengers will become familiar with it pretty quickly.

I would personally far prefer a two fare structure - one within the city area and one for longer routes - but presumably due to the current funding situation that was discounted.

And I am not trying to spin anything - I have no vested interest whatsoever other than being a customer myself.

There's a delay of 1-2 seconds as the screen switches from cash mode to Leapcard mode.
Then driver has to adjust his senses to new screen which takes 1-2 seconds.
This is human nature and well know in UI design.

Button is Pressed. Then there's a delay of 2-3 seconds before a small green light flashes on top of ticket machine and a deducted amount is displayed on a tiny dim screen at a poor angle.
Again human natures means it takes 2-3 seconds to recognise.
Generally no audible single is given although sometimes there's a small faint beep which is apparently the button being pressed.

Compare this to one standard screen, same few buttons all the time (one for each fare). Very noticeable physical single from machine in white ticket being issued.

I use the bus mosts days since introduction of test system so have experience of it.

It will always be slower.

Ways to fix it:
Use same screen for both leapcard and cash with same buttons for both fares. Label them for stages rather than cash amount and have very distinct colours for each fare.
Big easily readable screen with amount deducted that passenger can read. Apparently it's an added extra fro ticket machine.
A loud audible beep much like validator on right to indicate success. Equally a failure tone too.

foggy_lad

I wonder how many extra phone staff have been gathered up to answer the onslaught of customer care issues from Monday when people are supposed to be able to buy and use the live leap card? How hard will it be to get credit for driver error in issuing paper tickets as well as deducting fare from the card?

Most of the testers will have made themselves aware fully of how to use the card etc but the general public will not be as accomodating with the card and will be expecting to see easy to follow instructions as well as easy to see screens and will need an audible signal of fare deduction. If the public can't trust that their money is safe from mistakes and errors they will not use the leap card.

Flukey

It's going to be wild on Dublin Bus with the new Leap Card users, that's for sure. We've well documented the problems here, and fed it back through the questionnaires we all got.

goingnowhere

robd wrote: »

Use same screen for both leapcard and cash with same buttons for both fares. Label them for stages rather than cash amount and have very distinct colours for each fare.

The LEAP screen is the same as the cash screen, same buttons, same order

AlekSmart

robd wrote: »

Ways to fix it:
Use same screen for both leapcard and cash with same buttons for both fares. Label them for stages rather than cash amount and have very distinct colours for each fare.
Big easily readable screen with amount deducted that passenger can read. Apparently it's an added extra fro ticket machine.
A loud audible beep much like validator on right to indicate success. Equally a failure tone too.

Quite a reasonable suggestion Robd,however it presupposes that Dublin Bus have a system which allows passengers to identify the EXACT stage point at which they boarded....so your suggestion is impossible to implement at the present time

Aard

Just realised there was no mention of the Leap Card daily cap. I wonder if they'll introduce it in January, or if they'll wait until they get the period tickets sorted out. Too early to start speculating on what it'll be for bus + luas + dart I imagine. Probably €10+

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

Just realised there was no mention of the Leap Card daily cap. I wonder if they'll introduce it in January, or if they'll wait until they get the period tickets sorted out. Too early to start speculating on what it'll be for bus + luas + dart I imagine. Probably €10+

From my perspective of an Integrated Public Transport system this combined use cap would have been Point 2 in my list of "Things to Do" back in 1998.....:o

At this stage it's looking ominously as if the CJ Haughey principle of "An IRISH solution to an IRISH problem" is being firmly adhered to

kthnxbai

Just to clarify, using the Leap card, do you get charged per fare, rather than by day if you use the current smartcards?

It would have been nice if they'd given the increase in price for smartcards too, or are they being scrapped altogether?

I think the increase in prices is a little steep to be honest. I think it's fare enough (couldn't help myself) to increase the cash fare, purely to discourage people to use cash...

Does anyone know if smartcards will be priced based on cash fares or leap fares? I'd be kind of pissed if I was left with a 16% increase in my fare because they haven't gotten around to implementing a student fare on the leap card system yet.

robd

kthnxbai wrote: »

Just to clarify, using the Leap card, do you get charged per fare, rather than by day if you use the current smartcards?

It would have been nice if they'd given the increase in price for smartcards too, or are they being scrapped altogether?

I think the increase in prices is a little steep to be honest. I think it's fare enough (couldn't help myself) to increase the cash fare, purely to discourage people to use cash...

Does anyone know if smartcards will be priced based on cash fares or leap fares? I'd be kind of pissed if I was left with a 16% increase in my fare because they haven't gotten around to implementing a student fare on the leap card system yet.

Talk about a train of thought question. I've really had trouble trying to understand what it is you're asking.

Full details of new fares from January are here:
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news.html

There are Cash Fares and Leap Card fares which are slightly discounted.

The current phase of the Leap Card is epurse only so is just a replacement for the single cash fares. No daily capping in this phase. That will be introduced at a later date.

If you want student fares buy a student ticket from the current range as you currently would.
http://www.dublinbus.ie/Fares--Tickets/Tickets/Student-Tickets/

kthnxbai

Sorry, its early...

Y'know the prepaid smartcards that DB have at the moment? Well I was wondering if they were going to be increased in price. And if so, by 15%, in line with the cash fare increases, or else by 5%, in line with the leap fare increases.

Turns out, they're not being increased at all.

SandyfordGuy

prepaid Smartcards such as the ones you talk about are all going up in the new year. Just hasn't been announced what the changes will be yet.

kthnxbai

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

prepaid Smartcards such as the ones you talk about are all going up in the new year. Just hasn't been announced what the changes will be yet.

I emailed Dublin Bus and they said that they weren't. I only really asked here because I wasn't expecting an answer back from DB

SandyfordGuy

You will find with Dublin Bus they say nothing will happen until it actually is formally announced a lot of the time so I would take that with a very large pinch of salt, in previous years when there has been a price rise on cash fares, normally around a month later the prepaid tickets get hit.

If Dublin Bus were to say these prepaid cares were going up it would result in bulk buying of prepaid smart cards up front, something that they are keen to avoid for very obvious reasons, although it's already happening, all be it on a smaller scale, as proven when I saw someone buy 10 travel 90 tickets in bulk last Friday

AlekSmart

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

If Dublin Bus were to say these prepaid cares were going up it would result in bulk buying of prepaid smart cards up front, something that they are keen to avoid for very obvious reasons, although it's already happening, all be it on a smaller scale, as proven when I saw someone buy 10 travel 90 tickets in bulk last Friday

Savvy individual there...:D

It would be a brave person who would suggest that the Pre-paid tickets WON'T go up.......Paddy Power may well give you odds...I sure won't !! :eek:

the groutch

kthnxbai wrote: »

I emailed Dublin Bus and they said that they weren't.

we they sure as hell aren't gonna be dropped in price.
going to use my xmas bonus to buy a few 30 day ramblers and a bunch of t90s

Jesus Wept

Nice round numbers??

I'll take the extra 60 quid at the end of the year thanks, the fair increases are ridiculous enough as it is.

600 journeys (300 days per year) @10c per journey = €60.

'Nice round numbers' - yea, lovely.

LXFlyer

Last year the pre-paid tickets went up in price on May 1st, while the cash fares increased on February 6th.

I'd certainly expect that the pre-paid tickets will go up at some stage, but when exactly is anyone's guess.

Certainly stocking up on some tickets at the existing prices is a very good plan, particularly given they remain valid for use for appx 18 months.

angel01

No point for me stock buying them when I use a combined ticket (bus and luas), will be really annoyed if/when they put the price up. It is already expensive

LXFlyer

Indeed - that comment applies to the DB rambler and Travel 90 range of tickets which do have the 18 month validity period.

Given the present economic circumstances I think you can be fairly sure that there will be an increase in price at some stage.

Dodge

http://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/

These prices already went up but won't increase in January. Not suitable for all but if you're making 600 bus journeys, you shold definitely look into it

LXFlyer

As posted above - they went up on May 1 2011 but as many annual passes probably start on January 1 those ticket holders won't have noticed.

angel01

Dodge wrote: »

http://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/

These prices already went up but won't increase in January. Not suitable for all but if you're making 600 bus journeys, you shold definitely look into it

If only it was that simple.. I would have to pay for it over 3 months and It would cost me 393.33 per month and I can't afford to lose that much in wages for 3 months..:(

robd

angel01 wrote: »

If only it was that simple.. I would have to pay for it over 3 months and It would cost me 393.33 per month and I can't afford to lose that much in wages for 3 months..:(

That's a factor of lack of flexibility in payment terms by your own company though. Nothing to do with the Tax Saver scheme. Always worth a try begging for a longer payment term.

Dodge

angel01 wrote: »

If only it was that simple.. I would have to pay for it over 3 months and It would cost me 393.33 per month and I can't afford to lose that much in wages for 3 months..:(

Your company sucks.

angel01

robd wrote: »

That's a factor of lack of flexibility in payment terms by your own company though. Nothing to do with the Tax Saver scheme. Always worth a try begging for a longer payment term.

I am aware of that, but just stating that it isn't as simple as it should/could be.

Dodge wrote: »

Your company sucks.

Thanks for that observation..

LXFlyer

angel01 wrote: »

If only it was that simple.. I would have to pay for it over 3 months and It would cost me 393.33 per month and I can't afford to lose that much in wages for 3 months..:(

That's an unfortunate policy given the benefits the tickets offer to both the company (in terms of saving employer PRSI) and the employee.

AlekSmart

angel01 wrote: »

If only it was that simple.. I would have to pay for it over 3 months and It would cost me 393.33 per month and I can't afford to lose that much in wages for 3 months..:(

A classic scenario of just why Taxsaver needed to be established on a compulsory basis from day 1.

It would have been very easy to incorporate Taxsaver deductions into the Employers PAYE/PRSI packages if anybody had put a bit of welly into it.

Any employee entering into the Taxsaver scheme is embracing the ethos of Government policy in relation to sustainable transport and ecologically sound options,therefore the State should be shouldering it's responsibility in relation to facilitating persons wishing to play their part.

Why,when we finally do come up with good workable schemes do we insist on faffing about until the thing dies a long lingering death...?

Losty Dublin

Dragging this back a page or two and www.leapcard.ie says on bus fares...

"If you are paying for a fare of over 13 stages or Outer Suburban you should Touch On at the Smartcard Validator on the right hand side as you enter the bus. The default fare of €2.20 will be deducted from your Travel Credit."

A default fare; is this a step towards the long awaited and begged for standardised single fare or just an unhealthy choice of words?

schemingbohemia

AlekSmart wrote: »

A classic scenario of just why Taxsaver needed to be established on a compulsory basis from day 1.

It would have been very easy to incorporate Taxsaver deductions into the Employers PAYE/PRSI packages if anybody had put a bit of welly into it.

Any employee entering into the Taxsaver scheme is embracing the ethos of Government policy in relation to sustainable transport and ecologically sound options,therefore the State should be shouldering it's responsibility in relation to facilitating persons wishing to play their part.

Why,when we finally do come up with good workable schemes do we insist on faffing about until the thing dies a long lingering death...?

It's totally unfair to blame the State for the numptiness of employers! I also would take issue with the scheme dying a long lingering death - have you seen a significant reduction in taxsaver tickets? Hard to tell now with all the smart card variants but given the value they give I hope they're not dying.

You can't force employers to operate the scheme that would be illegal. The incentives are spelt out clearly - significant reduction in Employers PRSI/USC - but still some idiots decide it's not for them or their staff. What's needed is employees to badger their employers to have the scheme or in angel01's case to have it on a more reasonable basis spread out over the entire year. That would be tricky but I can't see what more the State can do to promote it.

AlekSmart

schemingbohemia wrote: »

It's totally unfair to blame the State for the numptiness of employers!

You can't force employers to operate the scheme that would be illegal. The incentives are spelt out clearly - significant reduction in Employers PRSI/USC - but still some idiots decide it's not for them or their staff. What's needed is employees to badger their employers to have the scheme or in angel01's case to have it on a more reasonable basis spread out over the entire year. That would be tricky but I can't see what more the State can do to promote it.

One possible method would be a bit of positive discrimination for employers who fully engage with the process ,ie: a small corporate tax deduction per employee signed up for Taxsaver.

Taxsaver is,after all,an official State approved system and therefore deserves to be treated as such rather than the current semi-official nature of the beast,which sees people being frustrated in their attempts to engage with Government Policy re Sustainable Transport Options.

Sadly,in the past month I have spoken with two regular travellers who will not be renewing their Taxsaver for 2012,but in their cases it is down to the deterioration of Bus services which they formerly relied upon for work commuting....Now that I also feel is a serious issue but not the one at hand.

Carawaystick

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Dragging this back a page or two and www.leapcard.ie says on bus fares...

"If you are paying for a fare of over 13 stages or Outer Suburban you should Touch On at the Smartcard Validator on the right hand side as you enter the bus. The default fare of €2.20 will be deducted from your Travel Credit."

A default fare; is this a step towards the long awaited and begged for standardised single fare or just an unhealthy choice of words?

Losty, you may be glad to know that a nice lady at the nta told me today that there will be increases to the default fare, an expresso service will cost 2.70 and an outer suburban trip will cost 3.75 on the leap card. Which seems to blow the whole default ( could they even say standard:) ) fare of 2.20 out of the water.

AlekSmart

Carawaystick wrote: »

Losty, you may be glad to know that a nice lady at the nta told me today that there will be increases to the default fare, an expresso service will cost 2.70 and an outer suburban trip will cost 3.75 on the leap card. Which seems to blow the whole default ( could they even say standard:) ) fare of 2.20 out of the water.

My understanding is that the default single fare will be €2.40.