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"Without the solicitors, the criminals are fúcked"- *alleged* Dublin criminal

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  • 09-12-2011 1:51am
    #1
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭


    So there we have it. :D I had tears in my eyes after that, and you could hear the glee in Mary Wilson's voice.

    On Drivetime, at 17.20 today Fergal Keane was outside the Criminal Courts of Justice interviewing *alleged* criminals about how they felt when criminal (ahem) solicitors and barristers staged a walk-out on them. Starts at 52.25. Fast forward past your man who "feels very bad and very sad" (hehe - what a rogue!) to 53.42:

    "*Alleged* Dublin criminal: The solicitors should be getting more money.
    Keane: And who should pay them?
    *Alleged* Dublin criminal: Who's going to pay them? The government should pay; the government should pay the solicitors because the reason why they should pay the solicitors is they're doing a good job, they're keeping criminals out of trouble, without the solicitors the criminals are fúcked."


    If ever there were an advertisement for the truly heroic service which solicitors and barristers give Irish society as they nobly defend their ridiculous fees from the Irish taxpayer justice this is it. It's a shocking state of affairs that the government would think of reducing the income of a legal profession which works so hard for the marginalised in Irish society.


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Comments

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    #2
    ThePower11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 554 ✭✭✭ThePower11


    Poor old solicitors, God love them :rolleyes:


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    #3
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Crime is lucrative, no overheads and with todays crazy judges not much risk.


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    #4
    qz
    Registered Users Posts: 8,753 ✭✭✭qz


    I would like to be a solicitor and make buckets of money and I don't give a fcuk.

    Haters gonna hate.


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    #5
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    billybudd wrote: »
    Crime is lucrative, no overheads

    What about the upwards only rent policy on underground lairs?

    Surely that's unsustainable in today's economy - especially for the small to medium sized criminal.


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    #6
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    I hate solicitors.
    Scum. Just utter scum.

    Think about it, even if a decent bloke studied to become one. The nature of the job will turn him. Lying and twisting events. Repersenting blatantly guilty people. And I hate all that "ah people are innocent until proven guilty" bollocks out of them. Its just an excuse to justify the nature of repersenting a scumbag.


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    #7
    paky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭paky


    ''if they've a legitimate right to walk out and strike...they've a legitimate right..do you know what i mean?''


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    #8
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    I hate solicitors.
    Scum. Just utter scum.

    Think about it, even if a decent bloke studied to become one. The nature of the job will turn him. Lying and twisting events. Repersenting blatantly guilty people. And I hate all that "ah people are innocent until proven guilty" bollocks out of them. Its just an excuse to justify the nature of repersenting a scumbag.

    So much wrong with that post

    So if you get charged with a crime will you represent yourself?

    Hope that goes well for you


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    #9
    mackg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    What about the upwards only rent policy on underground lairs?

    Surely that's unsustainable in today's economy - especially for the small to medium sized criminal.

    Ghost estate= free hideout for a criminal + several minions.


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    #10
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Interesting fact 1 - it's possible in Ireland to become a solicitor without having a degree in law.

    Interesting fact 2 - it's possible in Ireland to become a solicitor without having a degree in any subject.


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    #11
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    And I hate all that "ah people are innocent until proven guilty" bollocks out of them. Its just an excuse to justify the nature of repersenting a scumbag.

    And what if they are innocent?


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    #12
    Aurum
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Aurum


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Interesting fact 1 - it's possible in Ireland to become a solicitor without having a degree in law.

    Interesting fact 2 - it's possible in Ireland to become a solicitor without having a degree in any subject.

    It's the same in England too. A lot of firms recruit about 50% law grads 50% non-law.


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    #13
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    And I hate all that "ah people are innocent until proven guilty" bollocks out of them.
    That is probably the most important part of our legal system, it's not just made up by lawyers.

    How is it bollocks, exactly?


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    #14
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Interesting fact 1 - it's possible in Ireland to become a solicitor without having a degree in law.

    Interesting fact 2 - it's possible in Ireland to become a solicitor without having a degree in any subject.

    anything is possible in Ireland, when the majority will pay for it, no real questions asked and no answers given.

    FF second in the polls, see anything is possible.


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    #15
    Temptamperu
    Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Interesting fact 1 - it's possible in Ireland to become a solicitor without having a degree in law.

    Interesting fact 2 - it's possible in Ireland to become a solicitor without having a degree in any subject.
    How would you do this? I have always wanted my face on a billboard.


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    #16
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    Robbed a granny and slashed a Garda with a stanley?

    Why, you need....free legal aid!!!

    What a load of bollocks.


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    #17
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Temptamperu wrote: »
    How would you do this? I have always wanted my face on a billboard.
    Drive really quickly down the M50 on a motorbike without a helmet on. Good chance of getting your face on one then.


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    #18
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    BornToKill wrote: »
    And what if they are innocent?

    I was talking about from a solicitors point of view. Them agreeing to repersent a clearly guilty man. Take johnny cochran. Great example. Took on the Oj Simpson case. Cochran knew he was guilty. The world knew he was guilty. But he got him off.
    I'm talking about ethics and morals here. Can a person repersent a clearly guilty man (talking oj case level of clearly guilty here) and look in the mirror and say "i am a good person" .. or is it all about the money. Not caring if they did it or not. As long as you get them off any get the paycheck.


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    #19
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Temptamperu wrote: »
    How would you do this? I have always wanted my face on a billboard.

    FE-1 (8 of them) and FE2 exams.


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    #20
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    billybudd wrote: »
    anything is possible in Ireland, when the majority will pay for it, no real questions asked and no answers given.

    What? You know there's the small matter of professional exams? Who honestly gives a damn what degree they have.


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    #21
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    Robbed a granny and slashed a Garda with a stanley?

    Why, you need....free legal aid!!!

    What a load of bollocks.
    Please give us your suggestions for a better system.


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    #22
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    sock puppet wrote: »
    What? You know there's the small matter of professional exams? Who honestly gives a damn what degree they have.


    in the context of your query, why qoute me?


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    #23
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    billybudd wrote: »
    in the context of your query, why qoute me?


    It seemed from your post that you had an issue with the fact that it doesn't take a degree in law to become a solicitor (or a barrister for that matter).


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    #24
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    Temptamperu wrote: »
    How would you do this? I have always wanted my face on a billboard.
    Temptamperu &Temptamperu & Sons
    <massive picture of your mug here>


    "Have you made a cockup in the past 10 years you could possibly blame on someone else? Call now..."


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    #25
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    This presumed innocent thing is costing the state a fortune.

    I mean who needs the presumption of innocence?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #26
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Please give us your suggestions for a better system.

    How about if someone is a repeat offender with a certain number of convictions, they lose their right to free legal aid?

    Someone with 50 convictions doesn't deserve to have legal aid paid for by the taxpayer.


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    #27
    paky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭paky


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    I was talking about from a solicitors point of view. Them agreeing to repersent a clearly guilty man. Take johnny cochran. Great example. Took on the Oj Simpson case. Cochran knew he was guilty. The world knew he was guilty. But he got him off.
    I'm talking about ethics and morals here. Can a person repersent a clearly guilty man (talking oj case level of clearly guilty here) and look in the mirror and say "i am a good person" .. or is it all about the money. Not caring if they did it or not. As long as you get them off any get the paycheck.

    there is no such thing as a good person. criminals are just victims of circumstance.


  • Options
    #28
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    I hate solicitors.
    Scum. Just utter scum.

    Think about it, even if a decent bloke studied to become one. The nature of the job will turn him. Lying and twisting events. Repersenting blatantly guilty people. And I hate all that "ah people are innocent until proven guilty" bollocks out of them. Its just an excuse to justify the nature of repersenting a scumbag.

    You do realise that no matter how guilty one is if there is no soliciter willing to represent them they can apply to have the case postponed/thrown out on the grounds that they cannot get a fair trial ?


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    #29
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    paky wrote: »
    LighterGuy wrote: »
    I was talking about from a solicitors point of view. Them agreeing to repersent a clearly guilty man. Take johnny cochran. Great example. Took on the Oj Simpson case. Cochran knew he was guilty. The world knew he was guilty. But he got him off.
    I'm talking about ethics and morals here. Can a person repersent a clearly guilty man (talking oj case level of clearly guilty here) and look in the mirror and say "i am a good person" .. or is it all about the money. Not caring if they did it or not. As long as you get them off any get the paycheck.

    there is no such thing as a good person. criminals are just victims of circumstance.

    Praying that this post is a wind-up!


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    #30
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    How about if someone is a repeat offender with a certain number of convictions, they lose their right to free legal aid?

    Someone with 50 convictions doesn't deserve to have legal aid paid for by the taxpayer.

    Everyone deserves legal representation.

    Just because they are guilty of 50 crimes doesn't automatically make them guilty of 51.

    True, the legal system costs us money, but it's an important thing to spend money on. Not everything can be judged by how much it costs financially.


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    #31
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    How about if someone is a repeat offender with a certain number of convictions, they lose their right to free legal aid?

    Someone with 50 convictions doesn't deserve to have legal aid paid for by the taxpayer.
    But in our system everybody is entitled to a fair trial. It doesn't matter how many convictions they have.

    It is not entirely impossible that someone could have loads of minor convictions from when they are young, reform and go straight, become an upstanding member of the community and then be arrested for a crime that they are innocent of when they are older.

    Do you deny that person legal aid because of their past?


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