Ghost Estates/Housing lists/Rent Allowance - can we not join the dots?

redto

the idea has merit, however I believe the cost of finishing those estates is being underestimated. New local authority houses are built to a much higher standard than those built by most 'developers'.

It might be possible however to do some form of rent to own, or shared ownership for the houses, then maintenance of the house would be the 'owner' /renters problem.

OT , I think there should be more profesional landlord compaines or housing associations, than the reliance here on private, amature landlords that we currently have and encourage

donalg1

plasteritup wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Well there are plenty of other countries that reduce social welfare payments on a sliding scale and seems to work there so why not here?

what countries?

Basically every other country in Europe we are the only country where someone on social welfare for ten years gets the same as someone on it for ten days.

So saying cutting social welfare or RA will lead to mass suicide is pretty silly now.

And spending hundreds of millions bringing these houses up to standard isn't really a solution to the huge RA bill. Who is gonna pay for it? Who is going to do the work and who is gonna pay them? Who is going to collect the rent and who is going to pay them? Who is gonna pay for the maintenance of all these houses?

Let me guess the tax payer can pay?

plasteritup

donalg1 wrote: »

Basically every other country in Europe we are the only country where someone on social welfare for ten years gets the same as someone on it for ten days.

So saying cutting social welfare or RA will lead to mass suicide is pretty silly now.

And spending hundreds of millions bringing these houses up to standard isn't really a solution to the huge RA bill. Who is gonna pay for it? Who is going to do the work and who is gonna pay them? Who is going to collect the rent and who is going to pay them? Who is gonna pay for the maintenance of all these houses?

Let me guess the tax payer can pay?

first of all i never said mass suicide!! you did.
ok donal,no rent allowance you say!
50percent cut in sw after a year you say!
what happens then??

donalg1

plasteritup wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Basically every other country in Europe we are the only country where someone on social welfare for ten years gets the same as someone on it for ten days.

So saying cutting social welfare or RA will lead to mass suicide is pretty silly now.

And spending hundreds of millions bringing these houses up to standard isn't really a solution to the huge RA bill. Who is gonna pay for it? Who is going to do the work and who is gonna pay them? Who is going to collect the rent and who is going to pay them? Who is gonna pay for the maintenance of all these houses?

Let me guess the tax payer can pay?

first of all i never said mass suicide!! you did.
ok donal,no rent allowance you say!
50percent cut in sw after a year you say!
what happens then??

I said 50% cut in RA not social welfare I said one or the other should be cut not both

gurramok

There are also a few thousand empty NAMA apts in Sandyford and its environs, most of them finished. Bet there are also many empties in towns and cities across the country so the accommodation is there in the right areas. Not all empties are in remote areas!

Icepick

plasteritup wrote: »

what happens then??

They adapt

COYW

gurramok wrote: »

There are also a few thousand empty NAMA apts in Sandyford and its environs, most of them finished. Bet there are also many empties in towns and cities across the country so the accommodation is there in the right areas. Not all empties are in remote areas!

It is a perfectly sensible idea. Moving those on RA into vacant properties makes sense and to be very honest, I would cut the RA on those who refuse to do so.

I want a free house!

Why pay a mortgage if you can get a free house?
Why would those struggling in neg equity continue when they could get a free house?

COYW

Deleted User wrote: »

I want a free house!

Why pay a mortgage if you can get a free house?
Why would those struggling in neg equity continue when they could get a free house?

At this is the reason why debt relief will never happen. You are 100% correct though. Only a fool would continue paying for something that you could get for free.

Head The Wall

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Given that a 1 bed flat in Cork costs 495 - 750 per month
as SW is 752 - even if one got the cheapest flat available that would leave a person 257 a month or 64.25 a week to pay for everything else- I think we can safely say that there would be an increase in homelessness and its associated problems.

Someone on the dole shouldn't be entitled to spend that much on rent allowance, people should move to accommodation they can afford (this is something I did myself last year when on the dole, I didn't apply for RA) and if they still can't afford it they should share. We should definitely not be paying for full apartments etc, they should only be paid enough for a room. people on the dole have to learn to live with in their means even if it involves a change to their lifestyle

redto wrote: »

the idea has merit, however I believe the cost of finishing those estates is being underestimated. New local authority houses are built to a much higher standard than those built by most 'developers'.

This is another joke, people getting free or subsidised houses which are a better spec than houses that most people buy. It's another reason why people that pay their own rent or have mortgages get outraged at the likes of these schemes. The building standards set by the govt should be good enough for all houses, it's rubbing peoples noses in it when they do things like this.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

I want a free house!

Why pay a mortgage if you can get a free house?
Why would those struggling in neg equity continue when they could get a free house?

So - do council tenants get free houses too?

The key word here is tenant-so people would only be getting 'free' houses in the same way as those currently getting RA are getting 'free' houses.

They will not own the house unless they buy it.
Their rent can be means tested to ensure they pay a fair amount according to their income.

As I said earlier - those on SW in council housing actually pay a greater contribution towards their rent (and receive no RA) then those in privately owner accommodation who do receive RA.

Currently, The only person who is getting a free house is the private landlord whose mortgage is being paid by the tax payer via the RA scheme.

Bannasidhe

Head The Wall wrote: »

Someone on the dole shouldn't be entitled to spend that much on rent allowance, people should move to accommodation they can afford (this is something I did myself last year when on the dole, I didn't apply for RA) and if they still can't afford it they should share. We should definitely not be paying for full apartments etc, they should only be paid enough for a room. people on the dole have to learn to live with in their means even if it involves a change to their lifestyle

It's a Catch 22 situation really - until private rents come down people have no choice whether they are on RA or paying their own rent but to pay the 'market' rate. The cheapest one bed flat I could find in Cork today costs 125 a week - so a person on basic SW of 188 per week would be hard pressed to afford that without further help from the State - which is what RA provides.
http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1145559. Studios (a.k.a bedsits) are around the 80-85 mark - and yes, that would be ok for a single person (hell - I have lived in bedsits myself back in the day ).

However - not ever RA recipient is a single person with no children. I did a search on Daft for 2 beds and yes, there are some available in Cork for 110 - 125 p.w - . http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?s%5Bcc_id%5D=ct3&s%5Ba_id%5D=&s%5Bmnp%5D=&s%5Bmxp%5D=&s%5Bmnb%5D=2&s%5Bmxb%5D=2&s%5Bpt_id%5D=&search=1&s%5Broute_id%5D=&s%5Ba_id_transport%5D=0&s%5Bstreet_name%5D=&s%5Btxt%5D=&s%5Bmnbt%5D=&s%5Bmxbt%5D=&s%5Bmove_in_date%5D=0&s%5Blease%5D=&s%5Bfurn%5D=0&s%5Bnpt_id%5D=&s%5Bdays_old%5D=&s%5Bsingle_beds%5D=&s%5Bdouble_beds%5D=&s%5Btwin_beds%5D=&s%5Bagreed%5D=&s%5Bsearch_type%5D=rental&s%5Btransport%5D=&s%5Badvanced%5D=&s%5Bprice_per_room%5D=&s%5Bsort_by%5D=price&s%5Bsort_type%5D=a&s%5Brefreshmap%5D=1&fr=default - the interesting thing is they all accept RA - so they are aimed at that market

I believe RA is helping to maintain high rents by providing a baseline amount. If that subsidy was removed from the private market - by transferring RA recipients into houses/apts already owned by the State- rents should come down for those who have to pay out of there own pockets.

There are also places available to rent in Cork for 2,000 a month - although the average for a 'high' end 2 bed seems to be 1,050 - 1,250 a month. Sorry - but over a grand rent for an apartment in a small city like Cork is crazy (pop of the whole county is 518,128 and it has 33,796 vacant dwellings http://thecork.ie/2011/06/30/population-of-cork-city-and-county-is-up-census-2011/ ). I could get a 3 bedroom flat in London in a comparably 'nice' area for less then that! -http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/London.html?sortByPriceDescending=false&sortByRelevance=false&minBedrooms=2&displayPropertyType=flats&primaryDisplayPropertyType=flats&oldDisplayPropertyType=flats&oldPrimaryDisplayPropertyType=flats

This is another joke, people getting free or subsidised houses which are a better spec than houses that most people buy. It's another reason why people that pay their own rent or have mortgages get outraged at the likes of these schemes. The building standards set by the govt should be good enough for all houses, it's rubbing peoples noses in it when they do things like this.

I don't think one can blame tenants for the absolute failure to enforce any kind of independently assessed building regulations in the private construction sector in this country. But I agree - the standard of building is appalling.

n97 mini

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Nice idea but it would never work. I can only imagine the uproar Labour, Sinn Fein etc would kick up about Councils forcing a young Dublin mother being forced to moveo out down the country to live in NAMA houses. Does anyone have numbers of ghost estates that exist in Dublin? I doubt there is a lot of them.

There are plenty of foreign nationals on the housing lists that would be glad to get a house anywhere in the country. I'm sure if offers were made you would get someone to fill every empty house in the country.

gurramok

Manchester:
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/benefits/localallowance
http://www.tenantstips.com/Home/Hous...d#.Tr08pJtEd3E


The highest RS that can be obtained in Manchester for a 2bed in £524. In Dublin, its 930euro for a couple or a single mother with a child.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...upplement.html

Rental accommodation is seriously subsidised by the Irish govt at the detriment of working taxpayers.

Icepick

gurramok wrote: »

In Dublin, its 930euro for a single mother with a child.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...upplement.html

This is beyond stupid and unfair.