Iphone, GUI & GolfLogix

matt-dublin

I know its probably been asked before but what is the official status or understanding of the golflogix app on the iphone. can you use it or not.

golfnut1

matt-dublin wrote: »

I know its probably been asked before but what is the official status or understanding of the golflogix app on the iphone. can you use it or not.

Well I have read the 2006 clarification on measuring devices jointly issued by the R&A and USGA. I can't quote it of the top of my head but basically it states that if a device has the ability to advise anything other than point to point distance such as but not limited to: incline, temperature, wind speed/direction or anything else that may be an advantage regardless if these modes have been disabled or not the device is deemed illegal.
Smartphones have the ability to advise some if not all of the above-mentioned which in my interpretation would deem them illegal.

Gophur

iPhone is illegal.

death1234567

As above iPhone is illegal as you can use it to find out information that your not allowed to, e.g. incline, temperature, wind speed/direction etc. GPS devices/Lasers are allowed as they only measure distances point to point.

moycullen14

death1234567 wrote: »

As above iPhone is illegal as you can use it to find out information that your not allowed to, e.g. incline, temperature, wind speed/direction etc. GPS devices/Lasers are allowed as they only measure distances point to point.

Interesting. I'd love to know how an iphone measures temp and/or wind speed? For that matter, how do you use it to measure incline? And, wouldn't it be easy to use a laser measuring device, with a bit of schoolboy trigonometry, to measure incline?

matt-dublin

What is the exact wording of the rule, measure or reference?

I'm thinking it's a grey area as it can reference that information from the Internet but can't measure it, gps on the iPhone is also less accurate than a range finder, also using a laser will give you accuracy and take the incline into account

golfnut1

matt-dublin wrote: »

What is the exact wording of the rule, measure or reference?

I'm thinking it's a grey area as it can reference that information from the Internet but can't measure it, gps on the iPhone is also less accurate than a range finder, also using a laser will give you accuracy and take the incline into account

Using your iPhone you can reference data that has been measured I.e current weather conditions.
Not all lasers are legal. Ones that take into account slope are illegal.

matt-dublin

GUI wrote:

3. Multi-functional devices such as mobile phones, PDAs, etc (i.e. devices that are primarily communication devices, but which may have other potential uses) may be used as follows:
•The device may be used for any non-golfing purpose (e.g. as a communication tool to phone, text or email), subject to any club / course regulations and the Rules on accessing advice-related matters – see Decision 14-3/16.
•When the Local Rule is in effect, a distance-measuring application may be used, provided the specific application is restricted to “distance only” and the device does not have any other “non-conforming” features. This is the case even if these other features are not being used. As above, the Rules on advice-related communications (including the use of the internet) still apply.
Conclusion

Looks like it can be used providing it can't actually measure anything but distance??

golfnut1

matt-dublin wrote: »

GUI wrote:

3. Multi-functional devices such as mobile phones, PDAs, etc (i.e. devices that are primarily communication devices, but which may have other potential uses) may be used as follows:
•The device may be used for any non-golfing purpose (e.g. as a communication tool to phone, text or email), subject to any club / course regulations and the Rules on accessing advice-related matters – see Decision 14-3/16.
•When the Local Rule is in effect, a distance-measuring application may be used, provided the specific application is restricted to “distance only” and the device does not have any other “non-conforming” features. This is the case even if these other features are not being used. As above, the Rules on advice-related communications (including the use of the internet) still apply.
Conclusion

Looks like it can be used providing it can't actually measure anything but distance??[/Quot

Well as I originally said my interpretation is that all smartphones are illegal as they have the capability to measure more that distance. Your interpretation may differ

PhilipMarlowe

matt-dublin wrote: »

Looks like it can be used providing it can't actually measure anything but distance??

Well, isn't there a compass and accelerometers and stuff in iphones so they are NON-CONFORMING regardless of whether you want to or actually use them.

Here's an info page on the GUI site - http://www.gui.ie/news_detail.asp?area=1&id=2845

death1234567

moycullen14 wrote: »

Interesting. I'd love to know how an iphone measures temp and/or wind speed?

Internet access. Having an iphon in your packet and saying to your playing partner I'm just using it for measuring distances isn't enough. You could secretly be on the interweb finding out that its actually 16 degrees not 14 degrees and that the wind speed is 34 kph not 26 kph as forecast. Obviously the limits to what you could have hosted on the internet and access via an iphone are virtually limitless if you had the resources and this is the problem. What's the tool they use on US golf coverage that shows you the correct line of the putt before the pro's hit theirs?

matt-dublin

death1234567 wrote: »

Internet access. Having an iphon in your packet and saying to your playing partner I'm just using it for measuring distances isn't enough. You could secretly be on the interweb finding out that its actually 16 degrees not 14 degrees and that the wind speed is 34 kph not 26 kph as forecast. Obviously the limits to what you could have hosted on the internet and access via an iphone are virtually limitless if you had the resources and this is the problem. What's the tool they use on US golf coverage that shows you the correct line of the putt before the pro's hit theirs?

its not mearuring that information, its only referencing it.

dnjoyce

death1234567 wrote: »

Internet access. Having an iphon in your packet and saying to your playing partner I'm just using it for measuring distances isn't enough. You could secretly be on the interweb finding out that its actually 16 degrees not 14 degrees and that the wind speed is 34 kph not 26 kph as forecast. Obviously the limits to what you could have hosted on the internet and access via an iphone are virtually limitless if you had the resources and this is the problem. What's the tool they use on US golf coverage that shows you the correct line of the putt before the pro's hit theirs?

I think it's aimpoint - http://www.aimpointgolf.co.uk/ - slick stuff but not sure you could access any random green just on your phone, they probably need to have fulled mapped the course etc

death1234567

matt-dublin wrote: »

its not mearuring that information, its only referencing it.

I guess that's what they meant though. You could have a website with the measurements done for you by someone else and then reference it from your iPhone allowing you an advantage. I agree its a bit of a grey area but I think the GUI have done the right thing and only allowed GPS/lasers. The lasers that allow incline adjustments are also a bit too close to the line IMO.

I think it's aimpoint - http://www.aimpointgolf.co.uk/ - slick stuff but not sure you could access any random green just on your phone, they probably need to have fulled mapped the course etc .

Yeah but that's why I said if you had enough resources. I.E. if you were a pro golfer you would be playing in a televised event with the course greens already mapped. And I see its already available for iPhone. I wonder how it works...

BigChap1759

As stated above the iphone is illegal in competition because it has the compass app that cannot be removed.

Redzah

BigChap1759 wrote: »

As stated above the iphone is illegal in competition because it has the compass app that cannot be removed.

I didn't realise the compass cannot be removed. If you can figure out how to remove the compass you could argue its fine. Its silly really that iphone app cannot be used.

matt-dublin

the app can be removed, the electronic compass cannot.

that said its a stupid rule because the gps in any device will give you a much more accurate location and compas bearing than any compass so its almost a contradictory rule.

gps also can provide elevation to within 3 feet, again another contradictory rule.

PhilipMarlowe

It's a relatively simple and straight-forward rule.

Your options are:

1. to not bother with any of these measuring devices or else
2. use a device that is only capable of measuring distance

This disallows devices that may have other funky capabilities.

At the moment I am in the (a) camp but when I decide to move into the (b) camp I will buy a laser that measures distance only. Pointless buying one with slope capability because then it's not competition legal (even if you don't use it to measure slope). In the same way I don't see the need for tears about an iPhone app not being allowed. Your device is not compliant - get a compliant device if you want to go down that road.

Redzah

PhilipMarlowe wrote: »

It's a relatively simple and straight-forward rule.


Your options are:

1. to not bother with any of these measuring devices or else
2. use a device that is only capable of measuring distance

This disallows devices that may have other funky capabilities.

At the moment I am in the (a) camp but when I decide to move into the (b) camp I will buy a laser that measures distance only. Pointless buying one with slope capability because then it's not competition legal (even if you don't use it to measure slope). In the same way I don't see the need for tears about an iPhone app not being allowed. Your device is not compliant - get a compliant device if you want to go down that road.

Phillip there's also the question of price. You can get an iphone app for €20 versus a GPS/Rangefinder for €200. Personally I'm going to use my Iphone app and delete the compass app. If anybody challenges me on this i'm going to argue that the iphone does not have the capability to measure other devices without the app downloaded. If some1 then continues to press me on this, my sand wedge will come in handy

Redzah

Here's what the Q&A from the GUI website says;

Q. What about multi-functional devices, such as a mobile phone, with a distance measuring application?

A. On the course, subject to any club or course regulations, a multi-functional device may be used to phone, text or email – provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules, e.g. you are not asking for advice.

When an application that measures distance has been downloaded to the device, the application must be restricted to providing only distance information in order to conform to the Local Rule. If there are any other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play, such as a temperature gauge, compass or anemometer, this would render the device non-conforming regardless of whether these other features or applications are used or not.

Based on the above I take the following;
My app only measures distance
I have no temperature gauge
I have no anemometer
I will delete the compass app

Therefore, is my device now conforming based on the above? I'm gonna argue it is

golfnut1

Redzah wrote: »

Here's what the Q&A from the GUI website says;

Q. What about multi-functional devices, such as a mobile phone, with a distance measuring application?

A. On the course, subject to any club or course regulations, a multi-functional device may be used to phone, text or email – provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules, e.g. you are not asking for advice.

When an application that measures distance has been downloaded to the device, the application must be restricted to providing only distance information in order to conform to the Local Rule. If there are any other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play, such as a temperature gauge, compass or anemometer, this would render the device non-conforming regardless of whether these other features or applications are used or not.

Based on the above I take the following;
My app only measures distance
I have no temperature gauge
I have no anemometer
I will delete the compass app

Therefore, is my device now conforming based on the above? I'm gonna argue it is

Yes and how does " If there are any other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play, such as a temperature gauge, compass or anemometer, this would render the device non-conforming regardless of whether these other features or applications are used or not" fit into your argument?
That's where the sandwedge comes in is it?

Redzah

golfnut1 wrote: »

Yes and how does " If there are any other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play, such as a temperature gauge, compass or anemometer, this would render the device non-conforming regardless of whether these other features or applications are used or not" fit into your argument?
That's where the sandwedge comes in is it?

No because, if i can delete the compass app it is conforming based on what i've said above i.e. there are no other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play. Therefore the sand wedge is not necessary

Webbs

Redzah wrote: »

No because, if i can delete the compass app it is conforming based on what i've said above i.e. there are no other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play. Therefore the sand wedge is not necessary

I would be surprised if just deleting it then makes the device conforming. Who is to say, ''look heres my phone with no compass'', step on first tee and then reinstall the compass, and your playing partners take the sand wedge to you?

Redzah

Webbs wrote: »

I would be surprised if just deleting it then makes the device conforming. Who is to say, ''look heres my phone with no compass'', step on first tee and then reinstall the compass, and your playing partners take the sand wedge to you?

I'm skeptical that the GUI would accept it but i do think there's an arguement to be had if compass is deleted. The device is not capable of measuring direction without the compass app so it is in my view acceptable.

If your arguement were to hold true then all mobile phones with an internet connection should be banned from the golf course as people can download a whole host of non conforming apps and look up wind direction on the internet etc.

golfnut1

Redzah wrote: »

golfnut1 wrote: »

Yes and how does " If there are any other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play, such as a temperature gauge, compass or anemometer, this would render the device non-conforming regardless of whether these other features or applications are used or not" fit into your argument?
That's where the sandwedge comes in is it?

No because, if i can delete the compass app it is conforming based on what i've said above i.e. there are no other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play. Therefore the sand wedge is not necessary

What about mobile internet and accessing current weather conditions?
I wouldn't have any problem playing with someone who has a conforming iPhone the only way I know it conforms for sure if it is in pieces. That's where the wedge comes in.
A bit of a iPhone could make a nice ball marker or even an elaborate tee.

IITYWYBMAD

The Compass 'App' (it's not really an App) cannot be removed as it is factory installed by Apple.


Therefore, you cannot use the iPhone as a DMD, irrespective of your skills with a wedge.

alxmorgan

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

The Compass 'App' (it's not really an App) cannot be removed as it is factory installed by Apple.


Therefore, you cannot use the iPhone as a DMD, irrespective of your skills with a wedge.

And what about Android phones ? I think it is different there.

I would be surprised if just deleting it then makes the device conforming. Who is to say, ''look heres my phone with no compass'', step on first tee and then reinstall the compass, and your playing partners take the sand wedge to you?

This is stretching it a bit. I mean whats to stop someone kicking a ball in the rough into a better position ? Nothing
The ability to cheat with it should not be used in my opinion as you have to go out of your way to do it much like cheating in golf in general

Redzah

golfnut1 wrote: »

What about mobile internet and accessing current weather conditions?
I wouldn't have any problem playing with someone who has a conforming iPhone the only way I know it conforms for sure if it is in pieces. That's where the wedge comes in.
A bit of a iPhone could make a nice ball marker or even an elaborate tee.

'On the course, subject to any club or course regulations, a multi-functional device may be used to phone, text or email – provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules, e.g. you are not asking for advice.'

1. An iphone is a multi-functional device - allowable
2.Email is allowed on course - I'd love to see how u could utilise email without an internet connection.
3. Seem to operate an honesty system regarding use of mutifuctional devices, refer to last bolded item.

Therefore your arguement is non-sense as 99% of phones now have internet capability so should they also be banned (which is contradictory to the above).

Also I've used the internet in a senior cup match before to tell my opposition and the GUI rules official the British Open scores so based on this example internet is fine as long as its used in an honest fashion i.e. provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules

Therefore, it would be allowable if f'in compass could be deleted which based on the posts above does not appear possible

IITYWYBMAD

alxmorgan wrote: »

And what about Android phones ? I think it is different there.

Possibly, but the question was specifically about iPhones.

Redzah wrote: »

'On the course, subject to any club or course regulations, a multi-functional device may be used to phone, text or email – provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules, e.g. you are not asking for advice.'

1. An iphone is a multi-functional device - allowable

Correct. You can use your iPhone to phone/text/email anybody you want, once you stay within the rules, and it does not break a local rule/etiquette.

2.Email is allowed on course - I'd love to see how u could utilise email without an internet connection.
3. Seem to operate an honesty system regarding use of mutifuctional devices, refer to last bolded item.

Therefore your arguement is non-sense as 99% of phones now have internet capability so should they also be banned (which is contradictory to the above).

Also I've used the internet in a senior cup match before to tell my opposition and the GUI rules official the British Open so based on this example internet is fine as long as its used in an honest fashion i.e. provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules

I don't believe that there is an issue with using an iPhone for a myriad of different uses on a golf course, that's not really the issue.

What is factual, is that you may not, under the current rules, use an iPhone as a DMD. That is in breach of the rules, and will disqualify you from any competition.

Similarly, and application or device which has the ability to provide you with non-conforming information (for example Golflogix and it's ability to suggest the club you hit) is not allowed, irrespective of whether that utility is used or not.

bottom line, iPhone as a DMD = no.
iPhone as a phone-email-internet-whatever = yes.

tuxy

Why do they allow any measuring devices at all? Wouldn't a blanket ban on all electronic calculating devices make things so much clearer.

Gophur

@Redzah. It has been explicitly stated to you the iPhone is not legal. You now know it is not legal.

Argue all you want, but this game of honour relies on it's participants to be players of honour. You cannot use an iPhone on a Golf Course for what you have stated.


If in doubt, leave it out.

IITYWYBMAD

tuxy wrote: »

Why do they allow any measuring devices at all? Wouldn't a blanket ban on all electronic calculating devices make things so much clearer.

Good argument. Initially there was a belief that they would speed up play. If anything, they tend to slow it down imo.

I have a laser device that works very well. I use it as it does make my club selection easier, and I'm a competitive b***ard.

The argument that it gives players an unfair advantage over others is a moot one in my opinion, as you can use that argument about any or the latest equipment, or the ability to afford golf lessons.

I think Philip Marlowes argument above is a very valid one, i.e. if you want one, buy one that's conforming, if you don't, don't.

golfnut1

Redzah wrote: »

golfnut1 wrote: »

What about mobile internet and accessing current weather conditions?
I wouldn't have any problem playing with someone who has a conforming iPhone the only way I know it conforms for sure if it is in pieces. That's where the wedge comes in.
A bit of a iPhone could make a nice ball marker or even an elaborate tee.

'On the course, subject to any club or course regulations, a multi-functional device may be used to phone, text or email – provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules, e.g. you are not asking for advice.'

1. An iphone is a multi-functional device - allowable
2.Email is allowed on course - I'd love to see how u could utilise email without an internet connection.
3. Seem to operate an honesty system regarding use of mutifuctional devices, refer to last bolded item.

Therefore your arguement is non-sense as 99% of phones now have internet capability so should they also be banned (which is contradictory to the above).

Also I've used the internet in a senior cup match before to tell my opposition and the GUI rules official the British Open so based on this example internet is fine as long as its used in an honest fashion i.e. provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules

Question for you. Can you use an iPhone/any other smart phone to access information via the internet that can provide an advantage?

Redzah

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Possibly, but the question was specifically about iPhones.

Correct. You can use your iPhone to phone/text/email anybody you want, once you stay within the rules, and it does not break a local rule/etiquette.I don't believe that there is an issue with using an iPhone for a myriad of different uses on a golf course, that's not really the issue.

What is factual, is that you may not, under the current rules, use an iPhone as a DMD. That is in breach of the rules, and will disqualify you from any competition.

Similarly, and application or device which has the ability to provide you with non-conforming information (for example Golflogix and it's ability to suggest the club you hit) is not allowed, irrespective of whether that utility is used or not.

bottom line, iPhone as a DMD = no.
iPhone as a phone-email-internet-whatever = yes.

It appears that the compass is the sole reason for this though and my above post was merely to point out to golfnut, that stating internet connections on phones is non-comforming is non-sense. I have the golfshot app which as far as i can see is only distance.

Listen i've now been made aware that compass cannot be deleted. If this changes i will utilise my iphone as a DMD as I cannot see any other reason why it is non-conforming

IITYWYBMAD

Redzah wrote: »

It appears that the compass is the sole reason for this though and my above post was merely to point out to golfnut, that stating internet connections on phones is non-comforming is non-sense. I have the golfshot app which as far as i can see is only distance.

Listen i've now been made aware that compass cannot be deleted. If this changes i will utilise my iphone as a DMD as I cannot see any other reason why it is non-conforming

That's all well and good, but it's not just the fact that there is a compass on the iPhone which makes it non-conforming. I really do not envisage a situation where the iPhone will ever be accepted as a DMD, although I could be proved wrong tbh.

PhilipMarlowe

This thread hurts.
The argument that an app is cheaper than a dedicated GPS/Laser is moot too because pacing out the yardage or reading the sprinkler head or looking at the 150 stake and guessing or hit and hope is cheapest of all so price isn't a factor to be fair.

death1234567

tuxy wrote: »

Why do they allow any measuring devices at all?

€€€€€€€€€€€€€

There's money to be made selling expensive GPS and Laser devices to Golfers who have lots of disposable income. Companies sell products to golfers, market said products by sponsoring golfers/tournaments/golf on TV, this promotes the game of golf and increases the vast amounts of money in circulation thoughout the game.

tuxy

Redzah wrote: »

Listen i've now been made aware that compass cannot be deleted. If this changes i will utilise my iphone as a DMD as I cannot see any other reason why it is non-conforming

Physically remove the magnetometer from the phone?

Redzah

golfnut1 wrote: »

Question for you. Can you use an iPhone/any other smart phone to access information via the internet that can provide an advantage?

Provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules as quoted numerous times from the GUI website, this is allowable.

Furthermore, from my experience in a competitive environment, if used in an honest way, this is acceptable.

Again a nonsensical arguement from golfnut.

Compass is the problem, i've been made aware it cannot be deleted, until it can Iphone is non-conforming.

Redzah

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

That's all well and good, but it's not just the fact that there is a compass on the iPhone which makes it non-conforming. I really do not envisage a situation where the iPhone will ever be accepted as a DMD, although I could be proved wrong tbh.

What else makes the iphone non-conforming?

IITYWYBMAD

tuxy wrote: »

Physically remove the magnetometer from the phone?

;-} If only. There are no magnets in an iPhone. Interference from a magnet on the signal would render the signalling ineffective, and would make the phone useless.

Apple use RF to determine which is true North, and in order to send this signal around the world (which you may think is impossible) guess what Apple did????? They built a Dharma station on the North pole!!

And that folks, is only one of the reasons why, you will never see Apple remove the compass from an iPhone....../pedant

IITYWYBMAD

Redzah wrote: »

What else makes the iphone non-conforming?

For example the Weather Application , can provide wind direction and is uninstallable. There are a few other things in later releases of the IOS that will make the iPhone totally nonconforming, and to be honest the USGA and R&A do not have the resource nor the desire to 'pass' every new App that appears as a DMD on a smart phone, as the simple answer is to ban them all.

Redzah

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

For example the Weather Application , can provide wind direction and is uninstallable. There are a few other things in later releases of the IOS that will make the iPhone totally nonconforming, and to be honest the USGA and R&A do not have the resource nor the desire to 'pass' every new App that appears as a DMD on a smart phone, as the simple answer is to ban them all.

Just had a good look at my weather app. There's is no wind direction on this but sure listen all the technology experts out there have let me know that the compass is uninstallable and will never be so i'll have to start saving for a GPS. On a practicality level, i agree with your final point.

As for phillip marlows post, there is a huge incremental benefit that can be received from spending €20e on Iphone app over regular pacing of course distances (which are not always accurate).

€20 is a lot different to spending €200 to me so price is definately a factor to me. The value for money which i get for this extra €180 would be minimal if the compass on the iphone did not render it illegal

tuxy

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

;-} If only. There are no magnets in an iPhone. Interference from a magnet on the signal would render the signalling ineffective, and would make the phone useless.

Apple use RF to determine which is true North, and in order to send this signal around the world (which you may think is impossible) guess what Apple did????? They built a Dharma station on the North pole!!

And that folks, is only one of the reasons why, you will never see Apple remove the compass from an iPhone....../pedant

Haha come on it's not April 1st.

But seriously who said anything about having a magnet in the phone? If you were to remove the magnotrometer(ak8973 chip I believe) then it defiantly can not be used as a compass.

Golfgraffix

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

For example the Weather Application , can provide wind direction and is uninstallable. There are a few other things in later releases of the IOS that will make the iPhone totally nonconforming, and to be honest the USGA and R&A do not have the resource nor the desire to 'pass' every new App that appears as a DMD on a smart phone, as the simple answer is to ban them all.

An even simpler answer would be to stick to the principle of golf that allows for the players to be honest and do the right thing, it happens in all other areas of golf, for me its an integral part of the game. If a player has an app that gives the same info as say a skycaddie he should be able to use it, if the phone has other features such as wind he should be trusted to not use it.

I spent 4 days at the EGCOA conference a few weeks ago and one of the hot topics was how to attract and keep younger golfers, I am not talking about juniors, I am talking about 25 to 35, what the GUI and other unions refer to as the lost generation. Like it or not we live in a technological age where the smart phone is king, clubs need this demographic to be more active in taking up memberships and albeit one small step the allowing of smart phone apps will go some way to making the game more attractive.

I will say that as someone who owns a company producing golf apps that i do have a vested interest and my arguement maybe biased but i do think it also is valid.

J

IITYWYBMAD

Golfgraffix wrote: »

An even simpler answer would be to stick to the principle of golf that allows for the players to be honest and do the right thing, it happens in all other areas of golf, for me its an integral part of the game. If a player has an app that gives the same info as say a skycaddie he should be able to use it, if the phone has other features such as wind he should be trusted to not use it.

I spent 4 days at the EGCOA conference a few weeks ago and one of the hot topics was how to attract and keep younger golfers, I am not talking about juniors, I am talking about 25 to 35, what the GUI and other unions refer to as the lost generation. Like it or not we live in a technological age where the smart phone is king, clubs need this demographic to be more active in taking up memberships and albeit one small step the allowing of smart phone apps will go some way to making the game more attractive.

I will say that as someone who owns a company producing golf apps that i do have a vested interest and my arguement maybe biased but i do think it also is valid.

J

I completely agree, and as somebody who is also involved in App development, I'm not one for cutting off my nose to spite my face, but while I may not necessarily agree with the reasons, it does not preclude me from also understanding them.

From a practical perspective, I've played inter-club and I've seen first hand, and heard 2nd/3rd hand of many many disputes where golfers integrity was called into question. I'm not saying that cheating does not occur, but I can honestly say that I have only ever noticed 1 case of it happening myself in 20 odd years of golfing.

That said, I don't think the GUI/R&A...... have the know-how, desire or foresight to address this issue (in the short term) and as such they choose to push it to one side. The vast majority of golfers would gain no appreciable advantage to their game by knowing where polar north is. That's a fact. There are no legitimate concerns that cannot be addressed in the manner you outline above, that's also a fact. However, in order to avoid having to address the minutia of what may or may not come up from a Smart Phone perspective, the ruling body choose a blanket ban, as opposed to releasing an approved list.

I can understand why, even though I may not agree with it.

Redzah

Golfgraffix wrote: »

An even simpler answer would be to stick to the principle of golf that allows for the players to be honest and do the right thing, it happens in all other areas of golf, for me its an integral part of the game. If a player has an app that gives the same info as say a skycaddie he should be able to use it, if the phone has other features such as wind he should be trusted to not use it.

I spent 4 days at the EGCOA conference a few weeks ago and one of the hot topics was how to attract and keep younger golfers, I am not talking about juniors, I am talking about 25 to 35, what the GUI and other unions refer to as the lost generation. Like it or not we live in a technological age where the smart phone is king, clubs need this demographic to be more active in taking up memberships and albeit one small step the allowing of smart phone apps will go some way to making the game more attractive.

I will say that as someone who owns a company producing golf apps that i do have a vested interest and my arguement maybe biased but i do think it also is valid.

J

Agreed, if anything, this rule diverges from the honesty principle inherent in so many golfing rules.

Agreed also on the generation we now live in. These apps if used correctly and honestly will provide no extra benefit than the conforming devices and at a fraction of the price.

IITYWYBMAD

tuxy wrote: »

Haha come on it's not April 1st.

But seriously who said anything about having a magnet in the phone? If you were to remove the magnotrometer(ak8973 chip I believe) then it defiantly can not be used as a compass.

I agree it's not April 1st. And I think I've outlined why it will never happen.

the 8973 was in the 3G&3Gs they've since upgraded it for iPhone 4. That's only a part of the magnotrometer, and is not the entire device.

tuxy

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

as somebody who is also involved in App development

Is there much market developing apps that interface with fictional Dharma stations?

Redzah

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

I agree it's not April 1st. And I think I've outlined why it will never happen.

the 8973 was in the 3G&3Gs they've since upgraded it for iPhone 4. That's only a part of the magnotrometer, and is not the entire device.

I'm no tech expert but surely if part of the magnotrometer thingy is removed then the compass is no longer functional and therefore no longer a feature of the phone (kind of like a car with no engine a.k.a. a pile of metal)

IITYWYBMAD

tuxy wrote: »

Is there much market developing apps that interface with fictional Dharma stations?

I'm lost.