The best graphics card that won't bottleneck on an Intel Core2 4300@1.80GHz?

runswithascript

A few months ago the Nvidia 7300 LE that came with my 5 year old Dell Dimension failed and to log onto my desktop I have had to force the use of the on-board graphics.

Now the on-board graphics is starting to fail as there is a constant flicker on the screen, and more recently the display is ever edging closer left to the point now where I can not click the main menu top left on my desktop.

I have already exhausted the options on the monitor to correct the display horizontally as I cannot move it right any more.

The same problem occurs in Windows and Linux.

I have been looking at:

Asus GeForce GTX 550Ti 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card

which I have been told would be bottlenecked on my Intel Core2 4300@1.80GHz with 1GB of RAM system.

Because of this I have been looking at cards like ASUS GeForce EN210/SILENT/DI/512MD2 - 512MB -PCI-E
, but is there a better card with bang for buck value that won't bottleneck on me or would even that one bottleneck?

I need the PC for college so need to replace the card with something, and it would be nice if it was at least as powerful as the original 7300.

runswithascript

I'm operating under the assumption that only the on-board graphics part of the motherboard is failing, and everything will be alright with a new card.

Dublin_Gunner

Nearly any graphics card is going to be bottlenecked by that CPU tbh.

If you're looking at 550 ti, this for €114 is a better card.

However, a HD 6770 for €94~ would be even better value for you, and similar performance to the 550ti in most things.

A prudent question to ask is; is this for gaming? If so, what size screen (resolution) do you play at?

Just remember, don't expect to get anywhere near the performance that reviews tell you the card will give you, because your CPU / Ram subsystem is really very underpowered.


**Edit
This HD 6770 is only €85, and comes with Dirt 3

BostonB

You might want to consider getting a card that you can move to your next machine rather than one just for this machine. Unless of course you just don't want to spend much, which is fair enough.

runswithascript

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

A prudent question to ask is; is this for gaming? If so, what size screen (resolution) do you play at?

Well I used to play World of Wacraft @1280x1024 on Windows and Linux @ about 25/30 FPS (which is fine) dropping to less than 5/10 in populated areas like Dalaran (which is not fine but better than nothing).

After the 7300 failing it will not run at all, which is understandable.

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

**Edit
This HD 6770 is only €85, and comes with Dirt 3

Would it still bottleneck?

BostonB wrote: »

You might want to consider getting a card that you can move to your next machine rather than one just for this machine. Unless of course you just don't want to spend much, which is fair enough.

I had indeed considered getting a card which I would use in my new system, but that will not be for a few months and I figure that I will get better value/performance on a newer card then and I will at least have a fully working computer that I can give to someone or sell.


On eBay: GeForce 7300LE 128MB PCIE Graphics Card DVI VGA TV-Out Dell DT240 would replace the initial card that failed for ~ €22 allowing me to play _some_ games again, and keeping costs down - but maybe I could get a card a little bit more expensive and a little bit better that wouldn't bottleneck and improve the FPS in WoW?

I have been asking about all this in a hardware IRC channel, and some people were saying that I need to replace my board if the on-board graphics are failing - I'm hoping I can just replace the card and bypass the failing on-board graphics - what do you think?

Dublin_Gunner

The 6770 will still be bottlenecked alright, but you should be able to max nearly any game out at 12x10 (and add AA etc).

If the onboard gfx are failing - it may be due to overheating.

Your system was never designed to be a gaming system, and maybe stressing your gfx cards caused a lot of overheating due to a thermally poor case that the machine is housed in.

Bypassing the onboard gfx should be fine, once you haven't noticed anything else failing? (lots of blue screen crashes etc).

Make sure your case has some good fans providing airflow.

runswithascript

Maybe there's one here cheaper that would not bottleneck?

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/mid_range_gpus.html

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/low_end_gpus.html

Did notice anything else failing, although the white text when I initially turn on the computer has turned mainly into exclamation marks, and there's some beeping.

BostonB

dusf wrote: »

...
I had indeed considered getting a card which I would use in my new system, but that will not be for a few months and I figure that I will get better value/performance on a newer card then and I will at least have a fully working computer that I can give to someone or sell....

Makes sense alright.

Dublin_Gunner

dusf wrote: »

Maybe there's one here cheaper that would not bottleneck?

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/mid_range_gpus.html

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/low_end_gpus.html

Did notice anything else failing, although the white text when I initially turn on the computer has turned mainly into exclamation marks, and there's some beeping.

1. Never use that site for gfx card comparison, is so mostly incorrect its astonishing.

2. You may as well have a card that bottlenecks a bit, but be able to play games, than a stupidly weak card that would be pointless.

runswithascript

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

1. Never use that site for gfx card comparison, is so mostly incorrect its astonishing.

Is there another one that's better?

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

2. You may as well have a card that bottlenecks a bit, but be able to play games, than a stupidly weak card that would be pointless.

Nvidia GeForce 8600 GTS 256Mb Dell TP073 PCI-E Dual DVI @ €23?

I can get by with just World of Warcraft, Counter Strike, and COD3 on low settings for a few months until I go all in on a new machine.

Would the exclamation marks when I first turn on the computer be a result of the failing graphics card?

Dublin_Gunner

dusf wrote: »

Is there another one that's better?




Nvidia GeForce 8600 GTS 256Mb Dell TP073 PCI-E Dual DVI @ €23?

I can get by with just World of Warcraft, Counter Strike, and COD3 on low settings for a few months until I go all in on a new machine.

Would the exclamation marks when I first turn on the computer be a result of the failing graphics card?

Look up reviews for whatever card you're looking at, and then decide.

Do you have a budget for a card? That might be a better starting point. The 8600GTS is a very underpowered card. But the decision is your ultimately.

runswithascript

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Look up reviews for whatever card you're looking at, and then decide.

Do you have a budget for a card? That might be a better starting point. The 8600GTS is a very underpowered card. But the decision is your ultimately.

Well I could spend ~€100 if I really wanted to but like I have said I do not want to pay for a card that bottlenecks as I will feel I have wasted money, especially since I plan on building a nice gaming PC in a few months.

I would rather spend < €50, but then again considering I could just about get by with the 7300, will be building a new PC soon enough, and that I want to leave this old PC with a working card - I would like to spend as little as possible.

I would be happy spend a small amount on a card a bit better than 7300 so it would boost my WoW FPS a bit.

Dublin_Gunner

dusf wrote: »

Well I could spend ~€100 if I really wanted to but like I have said I do not want to pay for a card that bottlenecks as I will feel I have wasted money, especially since I plan on building a nice gaming PC in a few months.

I would rather spend < €50, but then again considering I could just about get by with the 7300, will be building a new PC soon enough, and that I want to leave this old PC with a working card - I would like to spend as little as possible.

I would be happy spend a small amount on a card a bit better than 7300 so it would boost my WoW FPS a bit.

Get the 6770 for 85 - you will still get FAR better performance in all of your games, and you'll realise how much more enjoyable they are with decent frame rates and quality settings.

BostonB

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Do you have a budget for a card? That might be a better starting point. The 8600GTS is a very underpowered card. But the decision is your ultimately.

I have a laptop with a C2D 2Ghz and a GS7900 which is similar performance wise to a 8600 and its well past it for games. I can play COD4 ok at medium res. But its a non runner for newer stuff. I can't play Call of Duty: World at War on it though. I have a desktop C2D @1.8 that I was thinking I could drop a better card in than the laptop, so I'm interested in what people are recommending for you.

runswithascript

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Get the 6770 for 85 - you will still get FAR better performance in all of your games, and you'll realise how much more enjoyable they are with decent frame rates and quality settings.

I appreciate that I really do, but if I spend €85 on the 6770 now with a new PC build on the cards for next year I will be left with two options when putting it together:

- migrate the 6770 to the new PC when I could instead be going out and getting a better card at that time for the same money. I would also have to purchase a a cheap card anyway to make the old PC function so I can sell it or give it away.

or:

- go out and buy a good card at the time I will actually be able to fully utilize with the new PC build, but still end up giving away/selling a PC with a card I spent €85 on.

I feel the best option would be to spend €30 or so on the likes of a XFX ATI Radeon 5450 HD 512MB SDDR3 PCI-Express HDMI (which seems to be the cheapest they sell that supports DirectX 11), leave it in the old PC when I get rid of it, and buy a good card when building the new PC.

If I have not already exhausted your patience and there's a better DirectX 11 card listed in the following link for less than €35 please let me know!

http://www.dabs.ie/category/components-and-storage,graphics--tv-tuners-and-i-o,graphics/11137-11

runswithascript

It's just the jump to the €85 for the 6770 is so close to €115 for the GT 550i that I find myself tempted to just get that and I'm back where I started.

nesf

The 5450 is a card for home theatre PCs not a card for any kind of gaming.

Dublin_Gunner

Ha! I've plenty of patience!

Theres a Gigabyte 4650 for €47 which would be faster than any of the other cards there, but for €30 theres an XFX 5450 1GB if you don't want to spend that much.

heid

Would this be a Dell Dimension 9200 series? psu range from 300 to 375w

runswithascript

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ha! I've plenty of patience!

Theres a Gigabyte 4650 for €47 which would be faster than any of the other cards there

But does not support DirectX 11 although cheaper cards do? Perhaps I won't be able to run DirectX with my system anyway!

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

for €30 theres an XFX 5450 1GB if you don't want to spend that much.

Probably going to go with this one!

I think I need to know more about graphics cards to compare them because at the moment I'm just checking to see what's got higher numbers like 1GB better than 512MB, and I would have thought the XFX 5450 better than the Gigabyte 4650!

nesf

dusf wrote: »

I think I need to know more about graphics cards to compare them because at the moment I'm just checking to see what's got higher numbers like 1GB better than 512MB, and I would have thought the XFX 5450 better than the Gigabyte 4650!

This is normally useful: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU/88

But the problem for you is that they only benchmark mid range and high end cards, not low end cards like the 5450.

dirtykitty

Hi Im Posting for Dusf as his graphics card has failed completely, he has noticed that the recommended PSU for the XFX ATI Radeon 5450 650MHz 1GB PCI-Express HDMI he has noticed that the recommended wattage supply for this unit is 450w, will this work ok on his DELL PSU 305w?

If not can he just order the cheapest 450 PSU from Dabs.ie ?

dirtykitty

will this be ok ?

Best Value EZCool 500W PSU 24-pin SATA

Dublin_Gunner

dirtykitty wrote: »

Hi Im Posting for Dusf as his graphics card has failed completely, he has noticed that the recommended PSU for the XFX ATI Radeon 5450 650MHz 1GB PCI-Express HDMI he has noticed that the recommended wattage supply for this unit is 450w, will this work ok on his DELL PSU 305w?

If not can he just order the cheapest 450 PSU from Dabs.ie ?

dirtykitty wrote: »

will this be ok ?

Best Value EZCool 500W PSU 24-pin SATA

That unit would probably do, but TBH cheap power supplies are cheap.

Secondly, there is no hope in hell a HD 5450 requires 450W (total system power). If his system used over 200W I'd be surprised. Don't bother with a new unit, his 305W will be fine with a HD 5450.

Dublin_Gunner

dusf wrote: »

But does not support DirectX 11 although cheaper cards do? Perhaps I won't be able to run DirectX with my system anyway!



Probably going to go with this one!

I think I need to know more about graphics cards to compare them because at the moment I'm just checking to see what's got higher numbers like 1GB better than 512MB, and I would have thought the XFX 5450 better than the Gigabyte 4650!

Trust me, for lower end cards, DX11 doesn't matter - you won;t be playing anything that requires it with that card anyway!

The 4650 has a LOT more grunt than the 5450.

dirtykitty

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Trust me, for lower end cards, DX11 doesn't matter - you won;t be playing anything that requires it with that card anyway!

The 4650 has a LOT more grunt than the 5450.

We cancelled the initial order, We have now just ordered the 4650 which does not list the recommended PSU wattage, can you confirm that it will also work ok with the 305w.

What are you comparing on the two cards to discern which is the better of te two cards? As obviously the 5450 is not better due to its higher model number, as we would have thought initially.

Dublin_Gunner

dirtykitty wrote: »

We cancelled the initial order, We have now just ordered the 4650 which does not list the recommended PSU wattage, can you confirm that it will also work ok with the 305w.

What are you comparing on the two cards to discern which is the better of te two cards? As obviously the 5450 is not better due to its higher model number, as we would have thought initially.

5450

5 = 5000 Series
4 = model within series
50 = specific model number

4650

4 = 4000 Series
6 = model within series
50 = specific model


As you can see, 6 is higher than 4. This means that even though the 5000 series model is newer, the '6' in 4650 and '4' in 5450 denotes the power of the card within the series.

'6' would denote a mid range card, '4' low end.

So you have a low end 5450, or a medium range 4650. The 4650 is a much more powerful card with regards to gaming.

the x650 would be the low end gaming range, the x450 would be a low end, media centre type card, not designed for gaming at all.

dirtykitty

we have read on the review of the card that a Molex Cable is required but not sure what type as Google shows different types, there is a four wire cable ( red , 2 black , yellow)coming out of the PSU but it will not reach the new card if this is the cable required? Can we pick up an extension in Maplins Dublin or online without paying £6/7 delivery charge? We dont want to amend the order & risk further delay as we are already looking at a delivery day of Mon/Tues next week.

Dublin_Gunner

dirtykitty wrote: »

we have read on the review of the card that a Molex Cable is required but not sure what type as Google shows different types, there is a four wire cable ( red , 2 black , yellow)coming out of the PSU but it will not reach the new card if this is the cable required? Can we pick up an extension in Maplins Dublin or online without paying £6/7 delivery charge? We dont want to amend the order & risk further delay as we are already looking at a delivery day of Mon/Tues next week.

Its a PCI-e power cable cable (though are you sure it needs one???). If you don't have one on your PSU, and adpater should come with the card. (2 molex - 1 PCI-E connector)

dirtykitty

The failed card in the Dell Dimension E520 is an INVIDIA GEFORCE 7300 LE which we believe to be PCI-E, we have read on line that power is not required when connected to PCI-E, can you confirm?

The only cable free out of the PSU is what we believe to be the 4 pin Molex but it will not reach, altho we have read that there is an adaptor but not extension cable included in the box.

Dublin_Gunner

dirtykitty wrote: »

The failed card in the Dell Dimension E520 is an INVIDIA GEFORCE 7300 LE which we believe to be PCI-E, we have read on line that power is not required when connected to PCI-E, can you confirm?

The only cable free out of the PSU is what we believe to be the 4 pin Molex but it will not reach, altho we have read that there is an adaptor but not extension cable included in the box.

SOme PCI-E cards do require power, but lower end ones don't.

The 4650 shouldn't require a power cable.

ANd please, no more of 'which we believe to be'. Please find out for definite, otherwise I can't help, cheers.

dirtykitty

thanks - will let you know how the outcome.

runswithascript

nesf wrote: »

This is normally useful: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU/88

But the problem for you is that they only benchmark mid range and high end cards, not low end cards like the 5450.

Thanks for that, good to have when building a new system next year!

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

The 4650 shouldn't require a power cable.

ANd please, no more of 'which we believe to be'. Please find out for definite, otherwise I can't help, cheers.

No problem, I did not have internet access so was not able to research.

What would you guys think about putting in another GB or so or RAM or would I just be throwing good money after bad here on the e4400 1.8Ghz Core 2 Duo system - also bearing in mind the new PC build next March/April.

It currently has two 512MB sticks in it, with two others free. Would any upgrade of RAM have to be the same size and speed as the existing RAM? That is could I only use two more 512MB sticks or could I get a single 1GB stick to compliment what's there already?

Also, I am eagerly awaiting the new card, I wish they would deliver earlier than Mon-Wed next week!

Dublin_Gunner

dusf wrote: »

Thanks for that, good to have when building a new system next year!



No problem, I did not have internet access so was not able to research.

What would you guys think about putting in another GB or so or RAM or would I just be throwing good money after bad here on the e4400 1.8Ghz Core 2 Duo system - also bearing in mind the new PC build next March/April.

It currently has two 512MB sticks in it, with two others free. Would any upgrade of RAM have to be the same size and speed as the existing RAM? That is could I only use two more 512MB sticks or could I get a single 1GB stick to compliment what's there already?

Also, I am eagerly awaiting the new card, I wish they would deliver earlier than Mon-Wed next week!

Get another 2x512mb sticks. Once they're the same speed you should be good to go (although speeds can be mixed, all your ram will run at the speed of the lower rated sticks).

If you installed 1x1GB stick, you'd lose dual channel mode.

Though DDR2 can be expensive these days, so check on the likes of Adverts.ie, otherwise it really wouldn't be worth it if you're replacing the whole system soon enough anyway.

runswithascript

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Get another 2x512mb sticks. Once they're the same speed you should be good to go (although speeds can be mixed, all your ram will run at the speed of the lower rated sticks).

If you installed 1x1GB stick, you'd lose dual channel mode.

Though DDR2 can be expensive these days, so check on the likes of Adverts.ie, otherwise it really wouldn't be worth it if you're replacing the whole system soon enough anyway.

I'm hoping when I get home and have a look at the memory it has the speed printed on it and whether it's SO-DIMM or DIMM etc.

You're right 512MB DDR2s are expensive considering there are higher amounts of RAM and DDR3 out here!

http://www.dabs.ie/category/components-and-storage,memory/11025?q=512

May be worth my while just taking out the existing memory and buying something like:

http://www.komplett.ie/Komplett/product/ZKB_01COM/08_MEMINT/02_DDR2/productdetails/13633624/ADATA_2GB_800MHz_PC2_6400/AD2U800B2G/default.aspx

or one or two from:

http://www.dabs.ie/category/components-and-storage,memory,generic-memory/11150-51530000

Which PC-XXXX speed is the best bang for buck to compliment the new card and e4400 Core 2 Duo?

Dublin_Gunner

SO-DIMM is for laptops - so don't buy that!

Once its DDR2-800 (PC2-6400) you should be fine. No need for anything faster.

http://www.dabs.ie/products/corsair-2x1gb-240-pin-dimm-xms2-6400-cl5-43N8.html?refs=427540000-468400000-42670000-11-4294963789&src=3

That would be fine, and only €27 (2x1GB sticks). All of the cheaper ones are out of stock.

or 2 of these:
http://www.dabs.ie/products/kingston-valueram-1gb-240-pin-ddr2-800mhz-cl6-57HX.html?refs=427540000-42670000-11-4294963789-468440000&src=3

Would be only around €22

runswithascript

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Once its DDR2-800 (PC2-6400) you should be fine. No need for anything faster.

http://www.dabs.ie/products/corsair-2x1gb-240-pin-dimm-xms2-6400-cl5-43N8.html?refs=427540000-468400000-42670000-11-4294963789&src=3

That would be fine, and only €27 (2x1GB sticks). All of the cheaper ones are out of stock.

or 2 of these:
http://www.dabs.ie/products/kingston-valueram-1gb-240-pin-ddr2-800mhz-cl6-57HX.html?refs=427540000-42670000-11-4294963789-468440000&src=3

Would be only around €22

The latter looks great but with a total of €30.95 delivery and an 8 to 10 day delivery wait I have been looking at the likes of:

Crucial Ballistix 512MB DDR2 PC2-5300 667Mhz Ram Memory seller refurbished @ €7.58 including delivery from eBay and they would match the speed of the existing memory, unless there's a very noticeable difference between 800 and 667 Mhz? Also would my memory say EEC on it if it was?

If 800 really is a lot better or required for my new setup I will probably go with Corsair Value Select - 2 GB 800MHz PC2-6400 @29.95 for the faster delivery time.

Cannot wait for for the card to arrive!

Dublin_Gunner

dusf wrote: »

The latter looks great but with a total of €30.95 delivery and an 8 to 10 day delivery wait I have been looking at the likes of:

Crucial Ballistix 512MB DDR2 PC2-5300 667Mhz Ram Memory seller refurbished @ €7.58 including delivery from eBay and they would match the speed of the existing memory, unless there's a very noticeable difference between 800 and 667 Mhz? Also would my memory say EEC on it if it was?

If 800 really is a lot better or required for my new setup I will probably go with Corsair Value Select - 2 GB 800MHz PC2-6400 @29.95 for the faster delivery time.

Cannot wait for for the card to arrive!

Where are you?? Dabs is €7~ for delivery...

Try these then
http://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr2ram/2gbteampc26400elitedualkit.html

€28.44, Irish company, free delivery, and 2-4 day shipping.

And no, your PC does not use ECC memory.