Football Geographical Rivalries - Do You Really Care?

massdebater

I support Newcastle so our biggest rivals would be Sunderland. There's always plenty of friendly banter between the Newcastle and Sunderland fans in the threads. The thing is, I quite like Sunderland. They always had plenty of Irish players, there's the Niall Quinn connection etc. so beating them means little more to me than beating the likes of Everton or Fulham. I know a win against Sunderland means more to the fans actually from Newcastle similar to the Cork-Kerry rivalry (for example) but that's because they're only over the road from each other hence more slagging on a day to day basis. Personally, I'd be happier beating the likes of United or City.

I'm just wondering if people in Ireland really care about their EPL teams local rivalries. Do Liverpool fans here care about beating Everton? Do Chelsea fans care about beating the likes of Fulham/QPR? Maybe Arsenal/Spurs or United/City aren't the best of examples as they're playing at a similar level these days but you get my drift.

So do fans from abroad really care about these local derbies or is it just what's expected?

orourkeda

No

I'm an Aston Villa supporter and was a season ticket holder for five years.

The games against Birmingham City especially at St Andrews were nasty in the sense that they took on more than just an added competitive element. The atmosphere was dodgy to put it mildly.

Everyone wants to beats Man Utd and city but sometimes local games are unique in their own way

EdenHazard

Somewhere in between

Impossible for a person in Ireland to care unless they go to every game and worked in the city but even there its hard to care its just football.

The reality is a lad in Dublin has no more connection with the mersyside derby than a lad in beijing. both could be liverpool fans and artificialy create a rivalry in their head but it doesn't exist. there is no way a casual liverpool fan in dublin could care about a match against everton anymore than a match against stoke. with united/arsenal its a different story because they will know fans of these clubs, they might know one everton fan.

FearDark

Somewhere in between

As an Arsenal fan it doesn't really matter to me. We seem to play a London team every second week, its nice to get one over on Tottenham and for as long as I can remember we have been the dominant one there. With Tottenham becoming a much better team in recent seasons it defiately makes you want to get one over on them more than ever I guess but at the same time I'd prefer to beat Man Utd.

Amirani

No

EdenHazard wrote: »

Impossible for a person in Ireland to care unless they go to every game and worked in the city but even there its hard to care its just football.

The reality is a lad in Dublin has no more connection with the mersyside derby than a lad in beijing. both could be liverpool fans and artificialy create a rivalry in their head but it doesn't exist. there is no way a casual liverpool fan in dublin could care about a match against everton anymore than a match against stoke. with united/arsenal its a different story because they will know fans of these clubs, they might know one everton fan.

This. Geographical rivalries don't make sense unless you're actually living in the area, where you're constantly around fans of the opposing club.

born2bwild

Somewhere in between

It's just like any other narrative - the story of the rivalry is the thing.

You don't have to live in London to buy into (very expensive these days) the story about how you're an Arsenal fan and Spurs are your most hated enemy.

Can you feel real tension and a sense of rivalry? Probably, yes.

Still it is a virtual experience and, on the level of geography, it's a contradiction - rivalries are 'local' rivalries - if you're not a local how can you be a part of it?

M5

massdebater wrote: »

I support Newcastle so our biggest rivals would be Sunderland. There's always plenty of friendly banter between the Newcastle and Sunderland fans in the threads. The thing is, I quite like Sunderland. They always had plenty of Irish players, there's the Niall Quinn connection etc. so beating them means little more to me than beating the likes of Everton or Fulham. I know a win against Sunderland means more to the fans actually from Newcastle similar to the Cork-Kerry rivalry (for example) but that's because they're only over the road from each other hence more slagging on a day to day basis. Personally, I'd be happier beating the likes of United or City.

I'm just wondering if people in Ireland really care about their EPL teams local rivalries. Do Liverpool fans here care about beating Everton? Do Chelsea fans care about beating the likes of Fulham/QPR? Maybe Arsenal/Spurs or United/City aren't the best of examples as they're playing at a similar level these days but you get my drift.

So do fans from abroad really care about these local derbies or is it just what's expected?

I'm also a toon fan, I strongly suggest going to a Derby, it will change your point of view

Crazy Horse 6

"If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I'd pull the curtains"
Shanks.

_blank_

Yes, I care.

I hate all the other Dublin clubs, and Cork FORAS. I'd hate any Cork club, because they are from Cork, and that's the reason.

super_furry

Irish people will never properly understand the geographic rivalries because they don't live them.

How many Irish Liverpool fans think that playing Everton is a bigger deal than playing Manchester United? Very few. Liverpool based Liverpool fans live and work alongside Everton fans and slag them and get slagged in the build up to a match, and then have to suffer or enjoy lording it over them afterwards.

Irish Liverpool fans are much more likely to encounter Man United/Chelsea/Arsenal fans and as such, will base their opinion on what the main rivalry is by their interaction with these fans.

_blank_

super_furry wrote: »

Irish people will never properly understand the geographic rivalries because they don't live them.

of other countries you mean, surely?

super_furry

Des wrote: »

of other countries you mean, surely?

Yep. Although it could equally apply to Sligo fans, who are still deseperate for a rivalry with Rovers

_blank_

Don't they have Harps? And/or New Derry.

Fr Tod Umptious

I certainly believe that a person can become a 'fan' of a team without having any connection to the location of that team.

But I cannot for the life of me figure how they can develop a hatred for that teams derby rivals from the same distance.

For example a situation where you may have a Liverpool fan from Tuam referring to Everton as scum are just laughable

GLaDOS

No

I do, but as I support Bohs and live in Dublin it directly effects me.

stovelid

No

For me, geographic rivalries would trump rivalries based on who is doing well at a given time.

So Rovers and Bohs, or to a lesser extent Pats would trump Rovers and, say, Sligo for me.

Same for United and City over United and Chelsea.

That said, the rivarly between Rovers and Sligo or United and Liverpool does have a geographic basis: country vs city; region (Lancashire) etc.

Without starting a row, I don't understand how any Irish person would 'feel' the Manchester Derby the way a Macunian or an adopted mancunian (somebody living in the city for a long time) any more than an English person would get a Dublin or Louth Derby or, say, the Dublin vs Kerry rivarly in GAA.

Paparazzo

Poll should have the options
If it's a foreign team you it's hard to have the same attachment. Granted, you support them, but you can't have the same rivalry as someone that lives in that city and goes to every game.

8-10

As an Ajax fan from Dublin, I can tell you that I do look forward to the Feyenoord games more than any other fixture every year.

Do I live in the Netherlands? No. Do I go to more than 1 Ajax game a season? No. For me it has nothing to do with geography and being around the other fans. I just find De Klassieker an absorbing fixture with incredible history and...the main point like the Old Firms/Merseysides/Classicos etc...is that both clubs really up their game for it.

It's a lot more entertaining than, say, RKC Waalwijk or VVV Venlo away! It's just a little something added to the enjoyment of following your favourite team. I'm not Dutch but I've always loved the mentality and football played by my favourite team. And the game I enjoy watching most each year is De Klassieker against Feyenoord. Simple as.

Crazy Horse 6

Des wrote: »

Yes, I care.

I hate all the other Dublin clubs, and Cork FORAS. I'd hate any Cork club, because they are from Cork, and that's the reason.

I've never really understood the hate some fans have for rival teams. I dislike Everton and Manchester United but it's only a bloody game tbh. I always thought the idiots chanting hillsborough/munich songs where full of hatred and i don't want to be accociated with that type of "fan". Do you hate the team or the supporters or is it both?

dfx-

No

Des wrote: »

I'd hate any Cork club, because they are from Cork, and that's the reason.

A good point well made.

SPA is my big derby since it's the local rival and nearest ground to me. Means much more than beating Bohs or anyone else in Dublin but they're good too. And Cork, but I rarely see that happen. A win in Richmond is always great and recently quite frequent :pac:

However I wouldn't tar all Irish people with not being able to care. It depends on whether you've grown up in the area or lived in the area for a length of time, but now do not.

AgileMyth

Des wrote: »

Don't they have Harps? And/or New Derry.

Not really. Derry and Harps have each other. We hate Harps and Galway hate us but these are both one way rivalries!

This year Monaghan will be our closest geographical rivals but theres no history between the two clubs.

We have no rivals...we hate you all equally, some more equal than others.:pac:

KittyeeTrix

As a Manchester City fan who has never been to Manchester, yes I do care.

Whether that sits well with some of ye matters very little to me!!! All that does matter is that we beat United when we play against them.

That is all:)

stovelid

No

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Whether that sits well with some of ye matters very little to me!!!

Who cares?

People are giving their opinions on the topic. You may not like some of them and will have to deal with it.

J. Marston

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

"If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I'd pull the curtains"
Shanks.

''What's your point?''

-J. Marston.

_blank_

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

I've never really understood the hate

Exactly:)

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Do you hate the team or the supporters or is it both?

I hate the team mostly, and the supporters when they are in the ground.

Now, I have pints with fans of rival clubs on match nights, both before and after the games, I even stay in the house of a Foras season ticket holder when I go down to Cark for Shels aways down there, I'd also count an employee of the club as a friend really.

For instance. I don't hate stovelid, I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and I'd like to have a pint with him - but for the 90 minutes when our teams play next season, he'll be a cúnt. And he'll think the same about me.

stovelid

No

Des wrote: »

For instance. I don't hate stovelid, I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and I'd like to have a pint with him - but for the 90 minutes when our teams play next season, he'll be a cúnt. And he'll think the same about me.

I'm trying hard to remember what Shels are like. It's been a while.

:pac:

curry-muff

AgileMyth wrote: »

Not really. Derry and Harps have each other. We hate Harps and Galway hate us but these are both one way rivalries!

This year Monaghan will be our closest geographical rivals but theres no history between the two clubs.

We have no rivals...we hate you all equally, some more equal than others.:pac:

As a Harps fan I can safely say we hate Sligo every bit as much as Derry.

As for the rivalry, you can't really call it that anymore with us sitting in 9th position of the First Division. If we did manage to beat Sligo or Derry in the cup though it would mean every bit as much as beating Cork or Shels.

This in the same way affects English football I believe though, the media tend to drum up interest in certain fixtures by playing the rivalry card which for a long time was United and Liverpool but now that the threat from Liverpool has somewhat worn off and the resurgence of City we have the city rivalry back in action which is every bit as important to the fans over there, and since the media also teaches us to buy into these rivalries I just think, why not embrace it, rivalries make football more interesting

niallo27

No

Well I think for people who travel to away games it's different, I mean if you have been spat at, been attacked, have had bottles ****ed at you you do pick up a genuine dislike for the opposing teams, goodison and Stamford bridge are the worst, you could feel the hate at old trafford but never had any trouble.

Lawrence1895

No

There is that rivalry in Germany between Borussia Dortmund and Sch**** 03+1. Those two cities are separated by 35 kilometres.

Funnily enough, it can happen, that supporters of both teams work for the same company and are friends for 363 days a year, but for the remaining two days of the year? It's derby time

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

Well I think for people who travel to away games it's different, I mean if you have been spat at, been attacked, have had bottles ****ed at you you do pick up a genuine dislike for the opposing teams, goodison and Stamford bridge are the worst, you could feel the hate at old trafford but never had any trouble.

Not the same thing as genuine rivalry, that is just hating clubs whose fans attack you. I hate Limerick for such reasons but they certainly aren't worthy rivals.

Blatter

niallo27 wrote: »

Well I think for people who travel to away games it's different, I mean if you have been spat at, been attacked, have had bottles ****ed at you you do pick up a genuine dislike for the opposing teams, goodison and Stamford bridge are the worst, you could feel the hate at old trafford but never had any trouble.

I get the impression you're no saint yourself at matches;):pac:

liamygunner29

I hate the spuds, my old man lived in London for 10 years and he hates them. I would see it as the biggest game of the season. I know a couple of Spurs fans who feel the same. I also know Arsenal fans who love the club but aren't bothered by it.

dfx-

No

niallo27 wrote: »

Well I think for people who travel to away games it's different, I mean if you have been spat at, been attacked, have had bottles ****ed at you you do pick up a genuine dislike for the opposing teams, goodison and Stamford bridge are the worst, you could feel the hate at old trafford but never had any trouble.

That's not a geographical rivalry though. That can happen in Dundalk or Derry or Limerick

niallo27

No

dfx- wrote: »

That's not a geographical rivalry though. That can happen in Dundalk or Derry or Limerick

Yes I suppose, I think you do pick up on the hate between the fans when your in the middle of them, everton would be the worst for me from personal expierence.

Paully D

No

I'm from Sunderland, born and bred there, so I'm not afraid to say I despise absolutely everything about Newcastle United. It might seem childish or petty but the rivalry is a massive part of my life.

It pisses me off when they win, I'm delighted when they lose. I've had numerous run ins with Newcastle supporters over the years. School and work has been hell on many occasions due to being there with Newcastle fans, and vice-versa.

Unfortunately we don't beat Newcastle as much as I would like, but some of the wins we've had against them have culminated in memories that will stay with me for the rest of my life.

So yes, I do really care and will continue to do so for as long as I live.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes I suppose, I think you do pick up on the hate between the fans when your in the middle of them, everton would be the worst for me from personal expierence.

Again, I went to the Lisbon derby in Estadio Luz last year, to say I picked up on the hate was an understatement. Alot more intense than most British derbies. I really like Benfica. Obviously I still don't hate Sporting though.

massdebater

massdebater wrote: »

I support Newcastle so our biggest rivals would be Sunderland. There's always plenty of friendly banter between the Newcastle and Sunderland fans in the threads. The thing is, I quite like Sunderland. They always had plenty of Irish players, there's the Niall Quinn connection etc. so beating them means little more to me than beating the likes of Everton or Fulham. I know a win against Sunderland means more to the fans actually from Newcastle similar to the Cork-Kerry rivalry (for example) but that's because they're only over the road from each other hence more slagging on a day to day basis. Personally, I'd be happier beating the likes of United or City.

I'm just wondering if people in Ireland really care about their EPL teams local rivalries. Do Liverpool fans here care about beating Everton? Do Chelsea fans care about beating the likes of Fulham/QPR? Maybe Arsenal/Spurs or United/City aren't the best of examples as they're playing at a similar level these days but you get my drift.

So do fans from abroad really care about these local derbies or is it just what's expected?

Plenty of people will proclaim how much they care but they can not care nearly as much as someone who is from the actual city, has a 3 weeks build up in work and down the pub and gets ribbed for weeks afterwards.

BOHtox

No

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

As a Manchester City fan who has never been to Manchester, yes I do care.

Whether that sits well with some of ye matters very little to me!!! All that does matter is that we beat United when we play against them.

That is all:)

How do you hate them more than we'll say Arsenal, Liverpool or Chelsea?

irishh_bob

EdenHazard wrote: »

Impossible for a person in Ireland to care unless they go to every game and worked in the city but even there its hard to care its just football.

The reality is a lad in Dublin has no more connection with the mersyside derby than a lad in beijing. both could be liverpool fans and artificialy create a rivalry in their head but it doesn't exist. there is no way a casual liverpool fan in dublin could care about a match against everton anymore than a match against stoke. with united/arsenal its a different story because they will know fans of these clubs, they might know one everton fan.

the exception to the rule being the celtic and rangers derby

CSF

irishh_bob wrote: »

the exception to the rule being the celtic and rangers derby

Eh how?

massdebater

Somewhere in between

A lot of people away off on tangents here. I'm not talking about LOI rivalries or about people who actually live in the area of the team they support. Obviously they'll have more of a connection because of where they're from.

I meant do people who have no connection with the area of the team they support really feel the hatred that the local fans feel? I highly doubt it.

One of my best mates is a huge Liverpool fan and was going mad on facebook about beating Everton earlier in the season. The chap's only been to about 5 or 6 Liverpool matches in his life and I know for a fact that none of them were derby matches. They were mostly United matches and once a Newcastle match with me. I just thought it was seriously cringy him going crazy about beating Everton when he's unlikely to have encountered many Everton fans in his life and has little (if any) connection to the place.

AgileMyth

massdebater wrote: »

One of my best mates is a huge Liverpool fan and was going mad on facebook about beating Everton earlier in the season. The chap's only been to about 5 or 6 Liverpool matches in his life and I know for a fact that none of them were derby matches. They were mostly United matches and once a Newcastle match with me. I just thought it was seriously cringy him going crazy about beating Everton when he's unlikely to have encountered many Everton fans in his life and has little (if any) connection to the place.

Sky Sports told him it was a big game so it is.

I've given up trying to understand the mentality of fans of the EPL. I don't get it and never will. Thank fuck for that!

Mr.Nice Guy

Somewhere in between

You can't feel the hatred the way a local fan could because you haven't grown up with it.

To use the example of Martin O'Neill, he said he chose to support Sunderland because he was a fan of Charlie Hurley who played for them. It's a fairly innocent, harmless reason and I highly doubt his parents encouraged him to develop a hatred of Newcastle fans to complement his choice. Contrast that with his Celtic leanings and it's perhaps more conceivable that he could have grown up with a hatred of Rangers on a par with Celtic fans in Scotland, because it's possible the sectarian situation in NI for him was just as intense as it was for a person in Glasgow (I don't believe this was the case for MON though as he seems like quite a mild mannered fella)

Most United and Liverpool fans in this country haven't grown up with a hatred of City or Everton unless it was passed on to them by a parent, which would seem to me unlikely. I suspect fans of these clubs have chosen them in a manner similar to the way MON chose to support Sunderland.

KittyeeTrix

stovelid wrote: »

Who cares?

People are giving their opinions on the topic. You may not like some of them and will have to deal with it.

Excactly Stovelid....
My opinion is that I don't care about the opinion of others who would disagree with me about my feelings for Manchester City or rivalry with United

Never said they weren't entitled to their opinion or anything but just that it doesn't bother me if it didn't sit well with them.....

If someone has a problem with my opinion well they'll just have to deal with it

Dotrel

Somewhere in between

Nope. Couldn't care less. That goes doubly so when it comes to players moving to supposed 'bitter' rivals.

batistuta9

No

massdebater wrote: »

A lot of people away off on tangents here. I'm not talking about LOI rivalries or about people who actually live in the area of the team they support. Obviously they'll have more of a connection because of where they're from.

I meant do people who have no connection with the area of the team they support really feel the hatred that the local fans feel? I highly doubt it.

One of my best mates is a huge Liverpool fan and was going mad on facebook about beating Everton earlier in the season. The chap's only been to about 5 or 6 Liverpool matches in his life and I know for a fact that none of them were derby matches. They were mostly United matches and once a Newcastle match with me. I just thought it was seriously cringy him going crazy about beating Everton when he's unlikely to have encountered many Everton fans in his life and has little (if any) connection to the place.

But everton are liverpool's biggest rivals. why should he not be happy that his team just beat their biggest rivals?
You don't have to be from the city/area to dislike your teams biggest rivals

K-9

Irish people do understand geographical rivalries, it just tends to be based in GAA, not soccer.

Dublin Meath, Laois Offaly, Meath Westmeath, Tyrone Armagh, Donegal Derry/Tyrone, Down Armagh, Kerry Cork, Galway, Mayo etc. etc., plenty more worth a mention.

Liverpool Everton will mean far more to a Scouser than Liverpool United to an Irish fan.

Something like Ipswich Norwich probably gets the more Irish rivalry.

No

I really hate Sp*rs.

My old lad passed on the Arsenal supporting ways to me, so I've grown used to celebrating St Totteringhams Day since 1995.

I've already said on the forum, that if we get to celebrate it again this year and win nothing else, I'll be happy.

Optimalprimerib

super_furry wrote: »

Irish people will never properly understand the geographic rivalries because they don't live them.

How many Irish Liverpool fans think that playing Everton is a bigger deal than playing Manchester United? Very few. Liverpool based Liverpool fans live and work alongside Everton fans and slag them and get slagged in the build up to a match, and then have to suffer or enjoy lording it over them afterwards.

Irish Liverpool fans are much more likely to encounter Man United/Chelsea/Arsenal fans and as such, will base their opinion on what the main rivalry is by their interaction with these fans.

If you follow an English team perhaps not, but as a GAA fan, I know all too well the Meath Dublin/Kildare/Louth/Westmeath rivalry. You really do want one over your neighbour, especially if you have a connection in any particular way.

As a spurs fan, most of the people I know support either Liverpool or united, so for that reason those are the teams I would hope to beat most.

CiaranC

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

If you follow an English team perhaps not, but as a GAA fan, I know all too well the Meath Dublin/Kildare/Louth/Westmeath rivalry.

This is a football forum, we are talking about football...

Of course Gah fans appreciate local rivalry, but then again if you got a Cork lad arbitrarily deciding to support Dublin hed be laughed out of it, and rightly so.

stovelid

No

K-9 wrote: »

Irish people do understand geographical rivalries, it just tends to be based in GAA, not soccer.
.

Er it happens in "soccer" here too.