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Noonan buckles under bookie pressure.

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    #62
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    How can you say it's not workable when it was done like that for years before the tax was abolished?
    The world changed and that is why they abolished it.


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    #63
    Stiffler2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    Jeez would a few paragraphs hurt ?
    Had to stop reading at "Heard"

    The first word in post.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dumpthedummy wrote: »
    Easy peasy betting tax

    Simple. By amending the betting legislation to capture telephone and internet betting, the Government would guarantee that all bets placed in or from Ireland would pay the betting duty. .................

    So the likes of Betfair would be required to charge all folk betting from the ROI this betting duty and then they pass it on the the Revenue folk? Would that be simple? Would it be easy to police?

    If someone resident in the UK was over here for work and placed some bets would those bets be liable?


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    #65
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    RoverJames wrote: »
    So the likes of Betfair would be required to charge all folk betting from the ROI this betting duty and then they pass it on the the Revenue folk? Would that be simple? Would it be easy to police?

    If someone resident in the UK was over here for work and placed some bets would those bets be liable?

    I think you'll find its all explained clearly in step 2.

    Step 1: Introduce internet betting tax legislation.

    Step 2: ???

    Step 3 Profit.


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    #66
    smokingman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭smokingman


    Dumpthedummy wrote: »
    Easy peasy betting tax

    Simple. By amending the betting legislation to capture telephone and internet betting, the Government would guarantee that all bets placed in or from Ireland would pay the betting duty. ..... This change in legislation would have answered the legitimate concerns that increasing the betting duty from 1% to 2% would drive punters offshore and thereby penalise Irish bookies.

    So you're saying that we would be able to make companies that have no connection to Ireland, pay our government for bets placed from an Irish IP address... Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

    "Hi Mr. German company, give us a share of any money that originated in Ireland...what's that you say? All Irish transactions are coming through a freely available internet proxy in the Camen islands so no proof of IP address there?...what's that you say? As a company registered in another country, the Irish government have no jurisdiction rights to ask for money from foreign companies that aren't even registered in Ireland?

    You haven't really thought this through have you?
    Look up some of the problems the US had in trying this and see how much money currently goes through the Bahamas as a result.

    Seems to me that bookies are a target of the OP because he loves that usual whingy crap that happens when people want to blame all their problems on "someone else" as opposed to taking personal responsibility for their own actions. By his logic, smokes/drink/cars and probably bloody pokemon should be banned.

    Grow a pair and take responsibility for you own actions ffs.


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    #67
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    He Just put a tax on remote betting from Ireland for betting exchanges only, scumbag in the pockets of Paddy Power.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JONJO THE MISER wrote: »
    He Just put a tax on remote betting from Ireland for betting exchanges only, scumbag in the pockets of Paddy Power.

    Any chance of a link Jonjo :) ?

    Ah yes
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1206/budget.html

    "Will introduce legislation to facilitate the extension of betting duty to remote betting and the introduction of betting intermediaries duty to cover betting exchanges"

    Hope it will be easy to follow, don't want my log getting complicated !!


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    #69
    Dumpthedummy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭Dumpthedummy


    No need to get personal, there are a few holes in your arguement!
    smokingman wrote: »
    So you're saying that we would be able to make companies that have no connection to Ireland, pay our government for bets placed from an Irish IP address... Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

    The argument you use has been trotted out by PP for years, ‘you can’t legislate for an internet business’. That’s just not true. There are many other services which are supplied over the internet, yet Governments do not give them any exemption from their indirect taxes. If for example you are an advertising agency, you can provide your services electronically from offshore, just like the bookmakers, however both you and the onshore customer are liable to register and pay the VAT due on the service. Governments have not shied away from legislating and there are severe penalties for offenders. If they did not legislate in such a way the providers of these services would simply base their computer servers offshore and refuse to pay their taxes as the Bookies are currently doing. Paddy Power are not alone in doing this, but they are the most publicly vocal with their threats about moving jobs out of Ireland.
    The major companies who account for the vast bulk of betting turnover in Ireland are UK or Irish plcs and they have to abide by the law.


    "Hi Mr. German company, give us a share of any money that originated in Ireland...what's that you say? All Irish transactions are coming through a freely available internet proxy in the Camen islands so no proof of IP address there?...what's that you say? As a company registered in another country, the Irish government have no jurisdiction rights to ask for money from foreign companies that aren't even registered in Ireland?

    Under money laundering laws internet bookmaking companies have to know their clients and have to keep records of their financial transactions. Mr German as he calls him is subject to tax audit just like everybody else and if he wants to avoid paying what is an exceptionally low tax by international standards (the German states have just agreed to impose a 5% turnover tax on internet betting) he will have to get involved in what would amount to a huge fraudulent scheme involving all his punter clients and then keep it secret from the authorities. I wonder who hasn't really thought this out properly.

    Seems to me that bookies are a target of the OP because he loves that usual whingy crap that happens when people want to blame all their problems on "someone else" as opposed to taking personal responsibility for their own actions. By his logic, smokes/drink/cars and probably bloody pokemon should be banned.

    Grow a pair and take responsibility for you own actions ffs.

    On a final point, you are mixing me up with someone else. I don’t have a problem with betting. I do believe in personal responsibility. I also believe in fair play and that single companies or small groups of companies should not be able to enjoy a perverse hold over the Irish state’s fiscal policy. A hold which has seems to me to have applied over Governments for at least 12 years.


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